The Three Biggest Mistakes in IT Band Syndrome Recovery

Hey guys, before we start the show, I want to introduce the premium version of the podcast. If you've not taken advantage of it, you really should. If you're a clinician, this is not for lay public, okay? So scroll down in your podcast player and you'll find a button that says premium version. It's very cheap and it's a monthly fee. You can stop whenever you want, but what you'll get in this is more specific case presentations and things that I wish I could have done better and things that I think that need to be said. And, you know, I'm a little bit more frank and direct on that one. And so what you'll get is more so what I talk to my interns about and kind of like internal office discussions, obviously patient privacy is there.

I think we all need to start learning from each other and I'll help you learn from my successes and my mistakes. And that's the pure intention of that premium podcast. It's about 10, 15 minutes every week. It releases on Mondays. Again, you can stop whenever you like, but I don't think you will because I think you'll like it now onto the show. You're listening to the restoring human movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone. It's Sebastian, your host with the restoring human movement podcast.

Thanks for joining the movement movement. This is your first time in the show. Welcome. You've missed a lot because we're into the, I think two thirties or so. And there's been a lot of good information back in the archives. So I do suggest that you go backwards and listen to the things that interest you. All right. Um, I think iTunes might only show the last hundred shows or so. So if you go onto my website, p2 sports care.com, we have a section with podcasts where everything is actually in there too, all the way down to number one, which is probably terrible one. If I recall correctly. So the point of this podcast, in case you've never been here before is to improve our clients.

All right. If there are clinicians listening, a lot of good tidbits for you today might be a little bit more client friendly. So, um, but you know, you never know, never, never know when you learn something. Also to, um, just think about the easy communication style I'm trying to use here. It's all intended to be more general and, um, useful, uh, for a reason. If you're a person, a client, a lay public, uh, this is going to be really excellent information for you because you're going to get a lot of great information that is boiled down, uh, and very useful, very appliable. Uh, and it might give you some good insight into maybe why you're not improving.

Okay. And so throughout this podcast, really the whole point is, is to help people get better faster. There's really no need to have two to five days a week where people are going to the same office and getting the same treatment and not getting better for months and months and months at a time. All right. Something's probably missing. I think we can all look deep down inside as clinicians and say, I think this person needs to get better faster. And the patient is probably thinking, I want to get better faster. I wish it was quicker. Now there is no such thing as a magic bullet, but there are things that can prove pretty quickly.

I think the body's pretty resilient. Um, things like cuts heal and sunburns heal and we're all good. So the topic of today is going to be it band. All right. Um, this is actually going to be part of our educational series that we do have on part of our opt-ins on our website. And so if it sounds like it's kind of a broken up format, that's the reason why most of the podcasts are not like this, but I do believe in duplication of content and this is going to be good content for either way you hear it, but, uh, not everyone's going to find this podcast first. So I'm trying to move our visibility to get good information out there.

And so hopefully, hopefully everyone can find the care that they need to improve. So we're going to get right into it band, uh, pain, outer knee pain and into the thigh pain. Hey guys, I'm Sebastian Gonzales. I am a chiropractor who works in Costa Mesa, California, that's Southern California. If you don't know already, uh, I've spent a lot of years helping people with hips and backs and knees and so on. Uh, I really love helping people mainly with hips, backs and referrals down into the knee, anything below the knee. I don't really love to help people with quite as much because I got to think a little bit harder.

And I like to, uh, I like to be confident when I, when I work with people, I like to sleep well at night. And so one of the things within that, uh, criteria is IT band syndrome, or at least what a lot of people will consider IT band syndrome, which I'll explain that in a moment here. And then I'm going to, uh, discuss with you the number one mistake that people make when they're actually trying to improve IT band syndrome. All right. And I'll leave that to a moment. Uh, but IT band syndrome, just so you know, a lot of times people will qualify it as outer knee pain, also outer thigh pain. Sometimes they'll have an association with like a tightness of the musculature of the hip above that area, which is on the outer side.

Um, and sometimes people will have gluteal region stiffness or pain or a dull ache. Um, and sometimes they'll have even a little low back stiffness and associated with it. Sometimes people will feel even their hip flexors are tight. And so this is kind of like a whole big mess that people will talk about there. But, um, the main thing is that it'll go down to a section of the outer hip kind of along the outer part of the knee, which is really focal around the outer part of the knee. And so, um, I would actually classify IT band syndrome actually as located solely in the spot on the outer part of the knee.

And I'll tell you the reason why here before we go into the mistake is that IT band syndrome is a friction syndrome. And it's as a section of the IT band produces friction over a section under the IT band. And so the stuff above is, I consider it as an associated symptom of something else, um, which a lot of times can come from the low back, uh, or the hip area. Okay. And so considering that as the same thing, in my opinion, is a little bit of a, uh, of a no, no, because it muddies the water of the right thing to do. Now, the mistake that most people make is a lot of times in association with that thigh, outer thigh pain that they feel.

And my biggest pet peeve and biggest mistake that people make is over foam rolling. I know, I know it sounds crazy because probably if you go on to Dr. Google or you go on Amazon and you type up IT band, the first thing you're going to find is a foam roller. And I'm not saying that foam rollers aren't useful and I'm not saying that they're not useful for knee pain, but I'm saying that if you're listening to this podcast and you've already heard, or so you've already been doing foam rolling and you're not improving. Yeah, there's a reason why. And so we ended up finding that people come into our office after dealing with, uh, months and months of foam rolling their IT band to no avail.

And so, yeah, foam rolling the IT band will work for some people and they'll feel better. And we know this by looking at a lot of the forums online. So if you look up probably IT band foam roll forum on Google, you'll find a lot of people who talk about IT band syndrome in runner's world and all these other types of forums where some people say, all I had to do was foam roll in. It felt good. I was good. Didn't have a problem again. Other people were like, well, I've been foam rolling it for a while and it's not improving. So I decided to go somewhere and they told me my, my glutes are weak and this and this and that and so on.

Um, and so you'll find a mixed bag all over the place. And it's funny one day when I was going through, uh, some of these forums, they kind of categorize down the topics for how many responses there's been. Um, I don't recall the exact number, but let's just give you some basic idea. Um, this was a running forum. And so let's say we're talking about hamstring, 20 responses, back pain, 20 responses. IT band thousands, absolutely thousands of responses of people dealing with this thing because it's such a nuisance to everybody now foam rolling. Again, the reason why I think it's a big mistake for everybody is because there's such a strong bias and belief system that everybody thinks that if you have IT band foam, roll it, right?

If you got to lose weight, go run. I mean, there's these biases that people have, you know, um, have a headache, take an aspirin tired, go sleep, you know, things like that. Go to, you have your first date, go to a movie and there's these things that people automatically jump to, which aren't bad things, but they are not just not the solution for everybody. You know, we, I know that the first date that I would probably want to go on is not going to be a movie cause I can't, can't discuss anything with anybody, but I'm pretty sure that's an appropriate date for someone who doesn't really want to talk to the person too much.

And they just want to kind of sit there and be around them and make sure that they feel okay with them, you know? And so foam rolling, the IT band, especially when you have outer thigh pain is typically not a good idea if it does not work within about a one to two week period of time. Also too, it's probably important to note that you should not be foam rolling so much that you're creating bruises on yourself. If you are, I'm pretty sure that you've foam rolled enough and I don't think that's probably going to work for you. Okay. Now, the reason why I think foam rolling is such a big mistake, mainly when you're dealing with the thigh issue, the thigh and the knee issue is because a lot of times the thigh issue can be referred from other spots.

Namely the, the biggest area of referral is going to be partly a spinal referral in the L5 nerve root distribution. I know a lot of the chiros out there, uh, or actually the people out there probably that realize I'm a chiropractor, like, Oh, here it goes again. Talking about the spine, you know, that's, uh, I mean, good, fair, fair stereotype. I get it, you know, but, um, there's a lot of circumstances where we actually are talking about other areas too, but it is really common to have the feeling of tightness in the IT band area when dealing with an L5 radiculopathy. It won't feel like a pinched nerve zapping shooting.

It'll feel like a throb. It'll feel like a stiffness. It'll feel uncomfortable. Sometimes people feel actually numbness on the side, or they'll feel like a prickliness change of skin sensation in the area. However, if you beat it up with a foam roller, it's kind of hard to tell what it feels like because now you bruise the area. Now it just feels like a bruise. And so take a step back, don't foam roll for a little bit, assess what it feels like. And if you have any numbness at all, it's probably going to be from the spine. Okay. Now, other things that you should probably be considerative too, that could be an association with that L5 radiculopathy, where we kind of know that foam rolling the, the IT band in the thighs are not going to help is any pain or, or sensation changes or anything that's different below the knee.

Also too, if you're dealing with, uh, SI joint, regional pain, piriformis, regional pain, or back stiffness, a dull ache in the glute, a tight hip flexor, it probably make a, it'd probably be a good idea to start higher where all those things are. You know, we can even make, uh, probably an argument to say that maybe work your glutes out really hard. You know, there's stuff going on up there. There's other stuff happening up there. And so I think starting from a higher approach is better than actually stretching or foam rolling the IT band. Now, obviously we can make discussions about, well, which foam roller is better.

Maybe he's talking about the white ones or the black ones or the knobby ones. I'm talking about all of them. Okay. Uh, and this also goes along with, uh, tissue work and stretching there too. Now I know I always feel like I get this response from people when I talk about things that aren't working, um, I, I feel like there was, there was a, there was something that we created recently. We were talking about MRIs and like, you really hate MRIs. I don't hate MRIs. I hate people over utilizing MRIs. Um, and I think, uh, with same thing of foam rolling and tissue work of thigh pain, outer thigh pain is it's, it's just overkill sometimes when all you need to do a lot of times to improve things in, in that area and including the knee is address it from its source.

Okay. Hope that makes sense to everybody. And it's not overkill. Um, there's obviously many ways we can address it from the source, but I just want to let you know that if you continue to foam roll, you might be, um, mistaken. All right, guys, we're going to cover the second biggest mistake now that people deal with. And they, uh, I guess they commit when they're dealing with IT band is they do the wrong core exercises. I know all core exercises should be considered equal, but they're, but they're not, they're really not. So the wrong core exercises are the ones that are going to make it. So you feel some pain that is not just effort.

Let me rephrase that. Okay. And so let's just say we're dealing with thigh pain and knee pain and a little bit of back stiffness. Say you're choose to do sit-ups and you're doing the sit-ups and your back starts to hurt a little bit, or you notice that your knee hurts a little bit doing that. Don't push through it. You should actually pick a better exercise, or you might notice that you're doing, um, scorpion exercises or supermans and it aggravates it. The same thing can happen. Or maybe you decide that you're doing side planks and side planks make it so your hip hurts and your knee hurts too.

Well, maybe that exercise is too advanced for you. And so there's ways to regress in progress, uh, core work that is scalable to everybody. And, um, I know everybody likes to feel the burn and, you know, there's a whole thing over the years about, you know, doing longer and longer planks and you know, like I did an eight hour plank, like that's not needed in order to feel good and look good and age well and make it so your IT band doesn't bother you. You don't need to do an eight hour plank. Um, even a couple minutes plank is probably enough. I'm sure probably even doing less is probably fine.

Um, but we find that a lot of times when people come in and help, uh, they want our help. There's actually a lot of times that sometimes their core work is creating their problem. And so we found before that actually people doing sit-ups actually, or crunches actually creates their IT band problem and their leg pain, their glute pain and all that stuff. And when you just simply remove that from their program, they feel better. At the same time, we found some people are doing supermans and that is creating their problem. Other times we find people are doing side planks and that is creating their problem.

So how are you supposed to know, how are you supposed to know what the bad core work is? If you're doing any at all, um, uh, actually if you're doing not doing any core work, I guess probably the first thing to start is just try an isometric and isometric exercise is a really good one to start with. Um, and it should just feel effortful, not painful. Um, but if you're doing stuff already and you're like, well, I don't know which one to take out. Well, I think it's fair to say that just do a mental check-in with what your body's feeling when you're doing those exercises, each one in particular, do you feel pain in certain spots that you would even consider normal pain, but you're willing to push through it?

You're like, I'm going to push through it. Like my, my hip feels a little tight doing this, but I can push through it. It's okay. I can do those mountain climbers and those Russian twists. It's okay. I can push through it. It'll go away when I'm done. That's actually the first thing you probably pay attention to. And the first thing you can probably eliminate, so I will get rid of ones that create some type of pain, not just effort. You mainly want to feel effort. Say we're doing a plank. You're probably going to, you're supposed to feel majority of your effort in the abdominal wall on the front side of your body.

You shouldn't really feel a lot in your lower back and you shouldn't really feel too much in, let's just say a side joint area. You probably shouldn't feel a lot in your hamstring. You'll probably feel a little bit more into the front side of your body because that's the area you're doing the work, right? Obviously you're going to feel shoulders. That's all normal, especially if it's on both sides. Actually, I should probably regress, digress a little bit with that is if you feel one side working more than another or one side tighter than another, that's also important, important information too.

Perhaps in that case, you either remove the plank or you scale back to a plank from the knees. I know it doesn't look as badass for that one doing that one knee plank out there and everyone thinks, ah, that person's doing a knee plank. It's okay. It's the hardest thing that you can still do really well versus having pain in something that's provoking your problem over time. Let's just say you're having problems doing side planks. You know, maybe you just do something with a little bit more hip bend in them, like a side bridge works, uh, or even some type of glute work will probably substitute well for that.

Doing something like a scorpion or sorry, like a Superman, maybe you don't want to do that. Maybe something like a, um, a reverse tabletop will work. Okay. All right. And so I like to start people with isometric exercises in a effortful, not painful way, but it is really common for people to say, I can, they just don't say anything. Actually, I take it back. They don't even say anything until you ask them, what are you feeling? Uh, you know, my, my T band hurts a little bit. My hip hurts a little bit. I can push through it. It's okay. No, no. I, I, I, I know you might've been told that in the past or there's this macho thing where, you know, you kind of like, it's okay to push through pain in this situation.

It's not, and you don't need to. All right. It's actually not desired because we are ingraining patterns of movement that are not working for your body at this point in time. And I think it's tied to your issue. And so why don't we change that? We're going to flip the script and make other areas work hard when they were obviously weren't working hard and dominantly in this activity before. And so if that exercise doesn't work, you take that exercise out or you regress it. There's tons of different ways to challenge your core. You don't need to stick to just the ones that you might've seen in a magazine.

All right. Now we're going to make our way to the third mistake that people tend to make with IT band. I know in the other mistakes I talked about, the possibility of things coming from the back and we talked about foam rolling and the mistake that everyone makes when they're dealing with the outer thigh and they're foam rolling a lot because it could be coming from the lower back L5 area. Also too, we talked about bad core work and how sit-ups and crunches and planks and supermans could be creating your issues and making them worse. But we really didn't talk about local knee issues yet. In particular, we kind of alluded to the fact that it could be coming from somewhere else.

But when we're dealing with actually local knee issues, one time or a lot of times the major mistake that people make is when they focus in to pinpoint at the knee itself and they start doing specific work to the actual IT band as it inserts into the knee area. Now, the thing that I mentioned earlier about having the IT band kind of mixed in with these other types of problems that could present as IT band or like a pseudo IT band, as I like to call it, is the fact that a lot of times those pseudo IT band issues come with other types of presentations that happen higher or lower than the knee. I mentioned earlier that if you're having tingling numbness, change of sensation into the shin, the foot, the calf, you're probably not dealing with IT band specifically, you're dealing with something else.

If you're having thigh pain, groin pain, hip pain in the back, gluteal region pain or stiffness or aches or whatever, even in the low back, you're probably dealing with something else. And there's easy ways, simple ways to help people through those things, but it's usually not targeted straight at the knee. Now, this last part we're talking about is we're talking about for those people who are dealing with just pinpoint outer knee pain, nothing else associated with it. And so the issue here is that it kind of draws people in thinking about, well, it's a friction syndrome. It's right there. Maybe we need to kind of get our hand in the area and just do a little bit more focal work on the knee and the quad and the hamstring right as it passes the knee, maybe the gastroc and we'll just kind of get in there and just like free things up.

Now, um, this is a big mistake for a lot of people because they're not getting better. Okay. The, there will be people who get better from this. All right. I actually had some deep pain in my knee on the outer part behind that actually was really bad when I would stop at stoplights. Like I would see the, the, the light turning about to turn red. And I thought, dear God, no. And so I'd stop there and wait for it to turn green. And then as soon as I started, it was just a deep stabbing in the back of the knee, nothing else associated with it. And so I did get some tissue work there and it cleaned up like nothing.

Like it was about a week and a half went away solid, never had it again. But if you're not having that experience, you're probably looking for more answers, which is why you're listening to this podcast. Or if maybe if you're a clinician and you're just kind of in here, uh, wondering what we're talking about, obviously, you know, there's a time and place. We do tissue work in our office as well. We do some local to the knee, but if it's not working, we ditch it actually pretty quickly. So we kind of have the saying that, uh, any treatment that you give it, if there's, if the right treatment, it will work at least 50% within about a week or two.

All right. Three weeks, probably max. If you're not having that effect and things keep coming back, um, you might reconsider what's going on. Maybe it's the wrong approach or maybe someone's doing something to trigger it. Maybe you want to remove things like the triggering responses. Now, from a local knee approach, I think it's important to note some of the come from that I'm going to be speaking about. And so one of the things that I mentioned in particular is that a lot of times the knee is kind of the circuit breaker of the leg. We say, uh, there's been the thing in the past, uh, it was the called the mobility stability continuum.

Uh, I like to add strength to this as well, but it's a basic, uh, the basic model I think works pretty well when we're talking about knees. And so the, as the saying goes, the body's a series of mobile and stable segments, mobile, generally speaking, are joints that have more ability to move in various directions, forward, backward, side to side of rotating. While stable joints generally only move kind of in a single direction dominantly and the other directions they don't really love to do because they're generally quote unquote stable. This has been called the continuum because the continuum, there's, there's obviously no single joint, only stable or only mobile.

It has aspects of both, but it would generally go towards either side of the paradigm. Uh, now when we're considering the knee, it works a lot in the forward, backward movement side to side and rotationally. It actually, um, is fairly intolerant of, um, if subjected to it too long, the ankle, I know the ankles considered a lot of joints down there, but the region itself has a lot of movement availability forward, backwards, side to side, turn, turn. We can almost put our ankle in circles, right? Same thing with the hip to ball socket has lots of circles that you can do with it. Lots of forward, backwards, lots of side to side, lots of movement availability.

And these areas actually work very well to deload the knee from having things like local friction syndromes. Okay. Obviously we can move up the chain a little bit more and talk about how core stability can help out with that or low back stability, but, um, it might not be as important for this conversation because I might ebb and flow a little bit too far away from the general topic. However, when we consider that mobile mobility stability type of continuum there, when we're talking about the knee, generally when it has its squeaky wheel or power leak type of presentation, when people have aches and pains there, usually it's because there's too much movement demand in a certain direction, side to side rotationally.

And this is kind of what things pop up like when we're talking about IT band syndrome. A lot of times people will notice that in their gait pattern, there's some hip drop that happens, which creates a little bit of knee cave and so on. By the way, it's important to know, uh, for actual IT band syndrome in this area, you need to have the mechanics for it. All right. If you're not a runner running a significant amount of miles a week, then you probably don't have this. You have something else. Okay. If you're a power lifter, a weight lifter, a general person who just, um, doesn't really spend a significant amount of time running, uh, I'm going to say probably if you're doing under 10 miles a week, you probably don't have this either.

It's a friction syndrome syndrome that requires a repetitive movement over the area. Okay. So generally for looking at local knee there, the big mistake, again, if I move back into the general topic is the big mistake is people forget to look around the area. They forget to look at the joint above and below, uh, and they forget to look at the foot and they forget to look at the back because there are a lot of stability points that will enhance mobility points, which will then improve the knees function and reduce the need for it to shift around in the directions that it doesn't like creating the friction syndrome over repetitive reps.

Okay. So we kind of have a general saying, the knee is the circuit breaker of the leg. Um, and it's never really its fault. It's just kind of stuck in the middle. It takes the hit. All right. It's like, uh, it's, it's, it's really forgiving. It takes the hit for all the dysfunction around it. Now, um, the confusing part about this is that people who are dealing with knee pain, sometimes locally and are getting the local approach, but not improving. They're like, why would I look anywhere else? Because my hip and my ankle don't hurt. My back doesn't hurt. Why would I look anywhere else? Exactly.

And so you need to look up there because those are often what we call dysfunctional, non-painful areas. So they don't work well, which makes the knee work more in certain directions doesn't like creating these friction issues. Um, but they don't hurt. Someone looks. And so you need to make sure that you're looking. It takes a skilled eye to really tell what's going on. Um, and, uh, I, I suggest that you have someone look at it and help you. Uh, it's really hard to look at this on your own. You could generally guess and, and, you know, like maybe I'll look up hip mobility and ankle mobility and core stability.

Actually, you could, you could do all that. Um, but how much time do you have in the day? Some of these mobility things, in my opinion, uh, don't work very quickly. Um, it's better to think, uh, to take a targeted approach, figure out exactly what your body's looking for and just do that. We've had people where the, after you own a single exercise for, you know, under five minutes, they feel dramatically better. Their IT band pain goes away, not completely, but it dramatically reduces. And all they have to do later is just continue to do that progression of that exercise and move upwards a little bit more into a strength training protocol.

And they actually do pretty well. And so don't miss those easy wins and make the big mistake of only looking at the knee when you need to be looking around it. And as we kind of mentioned with the other, uh, mistakes, foam rolling, it alludes to the fact that if it's not working, it's up the chain somewhere. It's up into the hip or back doing bad core work. If it's not working or it makes you feel worse, it's probably because it's probably coming from higher too. And I just mentioned the third thing is we know from knee mechanics, generally you kind of need to look around it. Now, obviously there is a time and place where you need to look locally.

Um, there's local support, which can be an issue. Um, and that's not going to be a topic specifically for this podcast, because here's the thing. Again, I keep thinking framework with this is if you're already doing local stuff and it's working for you, you're not looking for another answer. And so this is intended more for an audience who have not found success. So you need to consider elsewhere. Now, thanks for listening to the podcast, everybody. Uh, again, general format was broken up into pieces just so we can help people understand things in a better organized fashion on our, uh, platforms.

I find that, uh, the challenging thing that again, a lot of people end up having is that they are, they get this information a lot of times on the internet and on podcasts and all these things in a very disorganized way. And I don't know if there's a way really around that other than if you had a captive audience that was opening each and every one of your emails and reading them and understanding them and then just, just deciding to take action. Um, or if they actually came in and see you in person and said, look, don't look up anything else. Let's just do exactly what we're talking about. And so, uh, I, I don't know a way to actually improve that, but as you can see, we're doing our best.

We're trying to make it so, uh, people learn just enough information. So they realize that they need to ask for help. Okay. Uh, I've been a patient to myself and it's hard to be a patient and a doctor for yourself. It's also hard to coach yourself. If you're an athlete, um, this is the reason why people pay for triathlete coaches. There's a reason why people pay track and field coaches. Um, and they, they're worth them daily. You know, there's a reason why people who aspire to be professional athletes will pay for the professional help. It's because there's less user error that happens. Uh, and they don't have to think about it as you don't want to have to think about what you're doing.

You want to think about just what to do. Tell me what to do, coach. I'll do it. And so it cleans up movement. It cleans up exercises. It cleans up your problem much quicker than doing things on your own. Okay. Uh, and so I hope this podcast was helpful to everybody. Again, if you think it's going to be helpful to somebody else, please refer it over to them. By the way, uh, we do help people with IT band conditions. If you didn't notice already. And so if you're struggling with it and you want to have some help, you can always click on the link in the podcast description. We've included a form that you can let us know a little bit more about yourself so we can help you either find the person that's right for you.

Um, maybe you want to work with us. You know, we help people in person or virtual. We can do both. Uh, we also do have, um, programs on our website too. Uh, as I mentioned before, um, and I, I'm really, I'm first off, I guess just probably probably say I'm really proud of the program we created. Uh, it took, we've actually revamped this program many, many times. Um, reshot the video many times and reorganized things to accommodate for user error many times. Um, it's been reworked from becoming a small single page five link PDF. Uh, it was a one month guide and we continue to change it and it's on a web page that we have where I can continue to change things as I learn more things.

And so I'm very proud of it. However, there's always user error. Anytime someone works and tries to help themselves out, there's user error. And so it's buyer view error in that regard. But if you're looking for someone to work with you one-on-one, we can help you. Um, or if we can't help you and you want to see someone one-on-one where you're at, maybe we know somebody. We don't get any money or any kickback or any type from sending people to people or, uh, sending you guys to people around you. Okay. We just want you to find the right place to go so that you stop suffering from this. I mean, it's, uh, you know, I've, I've dealt with, with, um, knee pain before I've dealt with low back, uh, two hamstring tears, one with the bruise, one without I've dealt with hip impingement, uh, shoulder pain, neck pain, shoulder blade pain.

And I've dealt with all of this and I've been able to overcome, uh, all of it. And our interns, uh, at performance place have all had similar issues such as this too. And we all feel fine. You know, we're all able to return back to the activities that we love. Uh, and we're all able to function and, um, be happy in life without having to think that we're going to break ourselves. You know, the hardest thing is people tend to think that they're broken. They have old age, you know, it's just the way it's going to be. Like I've damaged, I've spent this much time doing this to my body. So now I'm going to pay the price.

I think that's just a poor way to think, you know, it's a, what are you going to do about what's in the past? Like, how can you change that? You can't, you know, how are you going to change your old age? You can't, these are things that are out of our control, whether they're part of the problem or not, they're out of your control. And so you might as well do things that are things you can do. Okay. And so if you want us to help you, we certainly can, or at very least contact us, let us know that you love the podcast or didn't like it. And, um, let us know what's going on with you so we can help you out and find the right care for you.

See you guys next time. Thanks for being part of the movement.