What a chiropractic student learned outside the classroom

Those experiences you're describing and all the fear and even with low back pain. I mean, that's something that as a young doc, like I've never experienced low back pain, you know. And I don't have any other relevant cases to pull information from. Like I don't have anywhere else to draw from. Just being able to like understand a little bit better in my own way what my patient might be going through, I think that's invaluable. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone, it's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the Movement Movement. This is the second patient, or I keep saying patient. This is the second student interview. So we have a chiropractic student on today. Her name's Hannah Venus. And she is going to be sharing some of her experience at school, as well as some of the things she's learned over the course of learning through digital media, podcasts, videos. Not all mine, by the way, but some of them mine. So I thought it would just be helpful for all the students and young practitioners out there to kind of learn from, you know, and just figure out that they're not alone.

They're probably having the same problems as she is, or the same debates and battles that she is. And so you're not alone. And reach out to fellow students and just, yeah, talk. Figure things out. Learn the real patient experience as you learn we go through on this podcast. So I think it's a great conversation. And Hannah, I know you're going to be listening to this. I do think you should do some public speaking. I think you're pretty darn good at it. And it's engaging storytelling. And so start working on your videos. Now, if this is your first time to the podcast, welcome. By the way, this is the place where I am attempting to blend the line between patient and provider.

Think of it like we're at a bar and I'm having a nice Mongo with a friend who's another clinician and you're a CPA and you don't know what the hell I'm talking about or what he's talking about. And so we're going to help blend that line so everybody really gets a good idea of patients, of what's being asked of you and how you can really improve yourself and how you can feel better and how you're not broken and blah, blah, blah. And providers, we're going to improve our communication to our patients. And so also, too, if you're first time to this podcast, please listen to the old ones. The old ones are amazing.

I've had some great people on. I've had Stu McGill. I've had Tom Michaud. I've had Michael Shacklock, Dan John, Richard Ulm, Max Schenk, Cody D-Mac. I keep going, going, going. But anyway, there's a lot back in the archives. And so I did a lot of interviews back in there. And so check them out. You're going to learn a lot. Last part, housekeeping, is that every single episode I try to share a little bit about myself via story. It's not because I want you to – it's not like the me show. But I strongly believe that people get more out of learning about their host. And I like Conan better than Letterman.

All right? And so I'm going to share a little bit of story about myself. Think of it as an audible tabloid. And so we'll go into that story, and we'll get right into the story and content with Hannah. All right. So if you have already heard my story about cutting my leg, you're going to know that I already think glasses of evil. And I'm really hesitant to brew beer again in a glass carboy. I mean, we go polyester, polymer, something like that, something that's not going to break. Because glass, I'm pretty sure glass is the most evil damn thing on the planet. And there's actually these cups in my house.

There's – we started with six. What did they come with, six or four originally? But they're long. They're tall. I mean, they're about this – let's go about 10 to 12 inches here. I'm just trying to measure. But the top is so narrow, right? And I don't know about you guys. Like, you might have these, like, little fancy contraptions to, like, clean your cups and stuff and get deep in there. But I don't. I just got a sponge, right? I got a sponge. And I'm thinking about going to a rag, by the way, because sponges are littering the planet. But either way, side story. So I can't get down in there. And I can get almost to the very bottom.

But the thing is that that little webbing between your ring finger and your pinky finger, it rides all along that rim there, that skinny little glass rim. And I keep thinking about, like, you know how sometimes you find those glasses that have the little chip point in there? Can you imagine just slicing that point on your hand, just that little webbing, just that tiny little webbing between your ring and your pinky finger? That's why I think glass is evil. And if we are going to have glass, that would be a little bit thicker glass, something more robust, like a mason jar. I'm down with the mason jar, right?

And I'm glad all those other three to five glasses in my house broke. They probably broke because, I mean, they're evil. But there's that one left. And I keep seeing that damn thing. And I just leave it in there. Like, I'll wash all the dishes, but I won't wash that one. I'll leave it there. And I'll actually leave it up top. And I'll put water in it to make sure that all the stuff, like, cleans nicely for everyone else. But at the same time, I'm kind of secretly hoping it just tips over. Like that one glass I see, and I'm like, I'm thinking, I hope that you fall. Because as soon as you fall, you're done.

And I'm going to worry about this shit no more. Because that is the one glass left in my house that I will not clean. I propose we go with something a little bit more open mouth, right? I'm down with cleaning my glasses and my Yetis and stuff like that. But they've got to be open, all right? No one likes dirty glasses. No one likes to get their pinky finger webbing torn up by glass either. So, yes. Let's get into the content now. Hey, how's it going? Can you hear me? I do. Yeah. Cool. Hi. Hey, how are you? Good. How do you get such a badass headset? Like, what is... You know, honestly, my husband is a part-time video gamer.

Oh, really? So, I stole his headset. He was cracking me up. He just walked through here and he said, all you got to do is shoot the bad guys. And I was like, yeah, okay. Do it. So, if we take a shot from maybe this way, then it would look like you're just playing video games on the computer right now. No more pictures. Okay. No more pictures of food. Just you're a gamer now. Worst gamer in history. So, is there anything that you want to cover today? I did definitely make some notes sort of just about how supplementing, like, learning through the media as a student has sort of changed my perspective and, I don't know, that's about it.

Okay. Sounds good. All right. So, yeah, if at any point... I am recording right now. I can always edit it, by the way, if you need... Kind of the rules of the game are, like, it's always a little bit more work for me to edit. I will edit. If you think you've offended somebody in some way that you had a knee-jerk reaction to. But I find that the ability to offer the edit gets a little bit... gets more information from people. Okay. So, you're a student interview number two. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I listened to student interview number one this morning. It was pretty good. Yeah. I'm surprised by how much he already knew.

Like, he knew... Yeah, I read that he was a term one and I was like, no. Right. That can't be right. Yeah. Wow. He knows a lot of stuff for term one, like, way more than I ever did. Yeah, me too. You're a nine, right? I am nine of ten. Okay. So, then, can you tell everyone about who you are and... Okay. Yeah. All right, well, my name is Hannah. I am a chiropractic student in Kansas City and it has been a blast. That's basically all I do these days. That's my description of me. All you do is chiropractic? Yeah. I don't know. I've seen... That's true. Yeah. I see the fruit stuff. Oh, yeah. I... Actually, I'll talk about it a little bit later, I think.

But I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease not too terribly long ago and had it managed with a DABSI, chiropractic internist, who does, like, functional medicine and all the things. So, I had to really reroute my entire diet and it's been a blast. It's been incredible. How long ago was that, anyways? About a year. Okay. And, yeah, I've seen you taking, like, full effect on it. I was looking through your website last night. Yeah. And, uh, I, it, it, I was, I was looking at Han, uh, Han's go-tos. Yeah. And, but I, I found it interesting the other day. The post was, it was like a cookie sandwich.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll, uh, that is actually from, we just got back from Portland. We took, um, McKinsey Part A. Mm-hmm. And so, that was in Portland. And it is this little, all, like, celiac-safe, no gluten, no dairy, no, really. Anything that's yikes. Delicious, but yikes. And, uh, it's called Petunias. Mm-hmm. Downtown Portland. And it is incredible. So, so you don't leave Portland with a box of voodoo donuts like everybody else then? No. No, I, sadly, I did not. Right on. Um, tell me about McKinsey's then. If you just went to, I'd never been to one. Oh, so McKinsey was difficult. It's probably the, one of the more difficult seminars I've ever taken.

It's very detailed and, um, their entire, like, assessment and classification system is kind of hard to wrap your head around. I come from sort of, like, the really functional movement, SFMA-oriented, like, assessment, classification, treatment style. Mm-hmm. And this is all about that really acute presentation and using, like, repetitive end-range movements, um, to manage. I took A, so it was all low back pain. Um, but it was pretty, pretty heavy. It was very good. Yeah. Very well done. And my favorite thing about McKinsey is that it's all about, um, teaching your patients to self-manage. Mm-hmm.

So, that entire concept is something that I appreciated a lot. Mm-hmm. Like, a lot, a lot. It was really heavy on patient education and patient empowerment, and it was wonderful. Yeah. I, I've, I've never taken one. I've considered taking it. Mm-hmm. Um, I have, I have read, uh, the books, and the funny, when I was reading through the books, I, I started to flashback to reading the Bible. Mm-hmm. And it was like, there's this, I forget, it's Leviticus, where, like, there's, they, they talk about, it's like a repetitive, like, you split the, you put the blood upon the altar, and then you throw the grain, and, right, and so it kept going, and, uh, in the, the McKinsey books, it's like, okay, I feel like I read this section before, and, but it's just for a different region.

Mm-hmm. So, um, good to know about the course. I would like to take it one day. Uh, how are you going to integrate that, then, with all your, uh, other, uh, assessment approach? That's, that's the problem. That's, that is what I need to find some more shadowing hours for. Mm-hmm. It, that's probably the most difficult thing that I envision having to figure out is, because when you're taking McKinsey, I mean, obviously, the guy who's teaching it is a diplomate and all sorts of, you know, does exclusively McKinsey all day, every day. So, it's kind of hard to imagine if you have somebody come in with that hollow back and you're using McKinsey to help, you know, manage their symptoms or fix them or whatever you want to call it, at what point do you get to the stuff that I love, which is, you know, rehabbing and loading and, you know, stability and all those things.

So, it wasn't really a part of the conversation this weekend. Um, I'm sure if you get further into McKinsey, it probably is. Yeah. I would imagine that'd be tough. Like, the, like, in my experience with interns coming in, it's, it's, the, the hard part is not learning all these little parts. It's how to put the parts together. A hundred percent. So, is then your, um, do you feel like the worst practice ever would be acute low backs for you? Like, you just have to McKinsey them every single time. Worst practice ever? No, but not ideal. That's for sure. Um, if I could just hang out in the gym all day and do, you know, yoga and mace exercises and weird stuff all day, that's what I would do.

But, um, definitely, definitely testing my brain on McKinsey. I was, I was feeling kind of like a jello head when I walked out. Um, by the way, uh, you, you got a good way of speaking on this. I think you started a podcast, by the way. You, you, you know, good dramatic pauses. I like it. No, no, I'll just continue to listen to yours. I'll stay, I'll stay away. No, I gotta, I think maybe pretty soon I should hand it off for like two months to some other person and then just gather it back. Oh no. That'd be great. Then you can learn stuff like, people are going to learn so many things from you today.

Not from me. Um, you could, uh, you could really catch up on your surfing though. I could, I could do a lot of things. I could fish. I have some countertops to put in. Yeah. Oh, no, no, no, not for me. The, uh, by the way, at any point during this conversation, I know that it's, it's really common to, uh, I don't know. Did you hear the ones I did with, uh, with DMAC back in, uh, he's probably like 20 episodes ago. He was the co-host. Oh yeah. So it's, I, I, I actually love a back and forth conversation. So if you ever have any questions for me, um, it's, it's really, I know it's hard to be the interviewed person.

And so you need to got a second to think. So whatever you want to ask me, you can ask me too. And I know when Cody was on, uh, like I found myself interviewing him and he would answer and then just stop talking. And I'm like, dude, you can ask questions too, if you want. Like it's, it's hard to be that person. So if you, if you ever need a second to think, just ask me a question. Okay. Uh, when, uh, the reason I wanted to have you on actually is, is that, uh, I don't recall your exact response, but when we're talking about having a patient or a student interviews is that you had, you had, you had the, the, the decisiveness of your answer.

It looked very like, like you had something on your mind that you've gone through school and you're like, I want to, I want to make this better. Or I, I wish this was part or something like that. Um, do you want me to read it or do you want me to? Definitely. I don't think it's too spicy. I don't think it was. Go ahead. It might've been too spicy. You think so? Go for it. Uh, a, a traveling, a traveling Cairo? That's it. Why is it traveling by the way? Cause I don't like to stay still cause I live in Kansas. Sorry, Kansas. Okay. So, uh, I'll read it to you here. So, uh, I had asked for a student interview and say, man, I'd love to touch on this.

Uh, Cleveland Cairo in Casey is a notorious middle ground for chiropractic realm. Never quite ready to push into heavy evidence-based model. And from my vantage point, held back on its alumni and admin to hold on to a boop. What is boop? Bone out of place. I didn't know that. Yeah. Like the old school model. Much of what we need to learn to become successful in the realms of the rehab world is, is, uh, is learned in spaces outside of our school and the costs are another small fortune. And, uh, that said at Cleveland, we get through boards with little problem and we're, and we are at least exposed to multitude of types of chiros, uh, out there.

Current tri-8 at Cleveland, certs is DNS, SFMA, McKenzie, love to comment about how it's difficult to integrate rehab and loading into school clinics and do into school clinic setting where students go and need to learn these things who are desperately, desperately, desperately, desperately hungry for it. So tell me what you're thinking. Well, okay. So this kind of came up again today, this morning when I was listening to your podcast with, uh, Geronimo. Yeah. Two, two exclamation points, exclamation points. Yes. You got to yell it. Oh God. And, uh, yeah. So I actually didn't catch where he went to school, but he was talking about sort of their rehab clinic.

Is he at Logan or? He's at, uh, what's in Florida again? Uh, life maybe? Uh, I forget it. I don't know. I'd have to look. Um, anyways, that's sort of, that's sort of what we're dying for. There's, um, a lot of students sort of getting into the, into the student clinic right now. And we're getting to learn from really, really great people like Josh Satterley. They've brought into school several times. And just this whole idea of like a clinic gym hybrid is what we're dying for. Um, Cleveland. Everyone does a really good job of getting students through school, but some of us want to do more than just get through school.

Um, I think for anyone in like a chiro program, who's like really wanting to push that functional model model of treatment, um, clinic can be kind of disheartening. Um, I mean, it's almost impossible to find any type of like groove of your treatment style when half of the time you're forbidden of like using the tools that you spent every extra ounce of energy and every extra cent of money you have, like trying to take SFMA and trying to even, even simple like modalities like, um, instrument assisted soft tissue or dry needling or something like that. Um, I mean, you spent years, all your extra time and money and, and it's just like McKenzie.

I mean, how do you even integrate something like that? And here I am in the clinic trying to figure out what am I gonna do when a real person is in front of me in my office in less than a year, in less than six months. And it's like, I haven't even, I don't really get a chance to practice all the tools that I think are important. I think are necessary. So there, uh, as it stands right now, I know, I guess we should, we'll, we'll, uh, protect the school for a second here. And, uh, by the way, I'm going to, I'm going to sneeze. I think I got four in me this time. Okay. Oh, wait, it went away. It went away.

It'll come back. Um, so the, the, the schools, I think, uh, there was a, I don't want to make sure that everyone thinks the schools are bad or anything, but it's like the school's responsibility is to, to get us to pass boards. And unless the criteria of boards changes, then it's, uh, then it's a different thing. And so I think they do an amazing job at that. But, uh, so you're right. Like we don't go through that type of stuff and we didn't either. Um, and with, with the school, then, then do you feel with the tools that you've learned in school so far that you can have a successful practice if you threw everything else away, at least.

What do you mean? So let's just say, um, so the way that you're able to manage in clinic right now is, do you feel confident that those skillsets are, are, um, going to get that person out of their symptom? And the reason I bring this up is that I think there's many ways to skin a cat, but it might not be your preferred way. And I want to, uh, I guess I want to, I want to see if you feel confident that you can help anybody period, not just the way that you want. Yeah. I do still have success in the clinic with, without using my favorite tools. Okay. You're right. Um, good. You'll at least start.

I at least have somewhere to start. Um, I think a lot of times in the student clinic, you sort of get sucked into that, um, I don't want to call it basic. That sounds way too rude, but that, um, sort of, you know, treating people for their symptoms and they're just going to have to come see you week after week forever and ever instead of like actual real episodic care. Um, and that sort of idea of actually getting, yeah, actually getting a patient better or, or teaching them how to get themselves better. Those ideas are definitely, definitely not present. Yeah. Um, I don't know if any of the schools currently do that now, you know, it's, uh, so it's, I think that's a problem in the criteria personally, but, um, there's, it just reminds me of the thought that like when, so you get, you're probably already gone out to your, your preceptors and, and so on.

And you're expected to practice a certain way in that clinic. Cause that's the style of the clinic. Right. Um, and so when you're in those clinics, do you feel like you have more free range or do you feel like it's, it's still kind of the same, like you're just doing the things that other people want you to do? Um, I would say a little bit more free range. I mean, you've had, we've had the ability to take them like TPI, the Titleist Performance Institute and OnBaseU and gotten some really great opportunities to work even in like actual sports performance, not even just rehab, but with a couple of like local teams and stuff.

And that is a really incredible opportunity that I think is like outside of a really traditional realm of Cairo for sure. And, um, I think you get to branch out a little bit more when you step outside the school doors. Yeah, I think so too. Well, they, they, they start doing over there. Um, I know that they started doing it at SCU. They, they kind of, I don't think they force you, but they ask you around like term through three or four. And they say, once you go out and do a, what do they call it? A, um, selective is it? Uh, and you go out and you need a shadow or so they, they kind of proposition you to shadow a little bit more, more soon.

Um, so that maybe it's to get that exposure. I have no idea, but did you, you do a lot of shadowing in the beginning? I do a lot. I still do a lot of shadowing. It is, it's maybe my second favorite way to learn. Um, honestly, like I like to call it, um, I don't even know, like media learning is, is kind of my favorite way to learn podcasts and YouTube and Instagram live. And it sounds silly and it sounds so millennial. It sounds really millennial with me, but I think it's a really incredible opportunity to get a lot of experience all day long, every day, no matter where you are, most likely for free and, um, without having to be in someone's office shadowing like you, I have the best time when I'm searching out like materials to get sort of that clinical experience without having to be somewhere.

I can do it while I drive. I can do it while I'm doing the dishes and it, it's how I stay alive as a student, um, and not sort of getting, you know, trudging through the mud and our basic sciences and our pretty linear clinical experiences within the outpatient clinic or the student clinic. Um, it's like, you're being able to sit and talk with your clinician, you know, who has like 10,000 times the experience that you do without sitting in front of a PowerPoint slide or I don't know, you get, you get a really great idea of how different doctors manage different conditions, how they go through a differential, um, or even different things like how clinicians handle really complicated, like psychosocial components to people's pain presentations, like things, a million other things that we don't have a lot of great access to.

Um, I think that finding those things, even through media helps you become better prepared for when there really is like a whole ass patient in front of you. Um, I think it's important. Oh, good. Multiple dramatic pauses though. I like it. I was on the edge of my seat. I didn't know what was going to happen then. Um, well, good. Yeah. Uh, I actually, I learned a lot too from listening to actually podcast, uh, uh, YouTube, I use kind of sparingly, uh, Instagram is, I, I personally don't, I feel like I can do it when I'm bored. It's like you, you go through a couple of posts and you're like, what am I doing on this thing and you put it away and then yours always pops up at the top.

I don't know where hard cause we're emailing. Probably. Um, those, those creepers. Have you ever seen those, um, the memes about like, um, your FBI agent? Do you know what I'm talking about? FBI agent? Yeah. They talk about, it doesn't actually make any sense. It'd probably be like your NSA agent, but this is ridiculous. I'm getting so off, but it's like the person in your phone who watches your every move and then, you know, they push you ads. That's like about something you were talking about out loud and you never even searched it. And they're like, oh yeah. Right. The FBI agent is looking out for you.

Yeah. The, oh yeah. Yeah. They're helping you out with your search searchability. Uh, yeah, actually. Yeah. I've had that experience a couple of times. Actually, one of them was, um, me and me and a friend were just bullshitting around about, she was having cramps and how she's like, I want, I want men to understand how hard it is to be in a meeting and understand what it's like to keep a straight face and have cramps. Right. And she's like, it's so hard. And so we talked about this for like 30 minutes and then it started suggesting cramp relief for me. Um, and then another one was, and this one's probably a little bit more targeted.

So we were at dinner with a friend and so the friend's a bartender. And so he's talking about his aches and pains and so on and blah, blah, blah. And so, um, he, uh, he, he kind of was, was going down the route of like, oh yeah, bartenders have all these types of aches and pains. I'm like, this is common. Really? He's like, he's like, yeah, yeah, we all have this problem. And so we kept going for like 30 minutes. And later I was, uh, I was suggested by Instagram to buy a product called Jager Bomb. Bartender Bomb. What? Yeah, it's really specific. Oh my gosh. Yeah. See, that's creepy. I know. So your, your FBI agent must like be a part-time female bartender.

Probably. Yeah. Um, but go ahead. With a difficult menstrual cycle. Yeah. Right. Um, I do have an idea for this, by the way, if you want to stop being a chiropractor right now and take this idea, I think it's needed. So do you ever watch old school, the movie? Yes. Okay. So we got earmuffs. Yeah. And so there's going to be a product that they should, should be like in the, at the door or in the middle of the table where everyone's eating or they're having their conversation and you take your phone and you just put it in this bucket that's labeled earmuffs and it's just basically sand or gel or some type of sound deadening device.

Mm-hmm. And then your FBI agent doesn't listen to you anymore. That's, yes. There you go. Actually, I know a lot of people who tape over their, uh, you know, their, what do you call these things? The camera? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like a webcam? That's how mine was when you first logged in. That's why I was all black. Oh, my God. Oh, no. What were we talking about again? Priority was, uh... Um, my favorite ways to learn. Oh, right, right. Oh, so then when you learn that way, uh, do you talk to other students about that or is there just no one else doing that same thing? I talk to everyone about it all the time.

And, um, yeah, we, we share podcasts back and forth all day, every day. Um, our little, our student group texts, they're always full of podcasts and little tidbit videos of, you know, how to step up your, uh, your bird dogs, you know? Oh, really? Yeah, how to, all sorts of silly stuff that it's just like, oh, we should try this, you know, or, hey, have you guys thought about this? And then, or just freaking listen to this podcast because it just changed my entire way I view everything ever. So, so do you guys get together and then practice then? Is that a, is that a weakness? Actually, yeah. We have a, I have Friday yoga girls, but it actually is more like a Friday goof off and do functional movement down in the gym.

Uh, it's pretty much a blast and it's always really challenging and it's fun to have a partner there. It's like practicing your rehab skills on somebody who's just going to laugh at you the whole time. So is it, is it mainly, is it only called yoga girls or is it, you actually do yoga based correctives? Um, both. Oh, tell me about yoga based correctives. Well, it's a group of us, um, at Cleveland who actually took DNS yoga, uh, which was a really incredible course. Uh, it was taught by, um, not gonna be able to think of her name. I'm going to have to look it up. Um, she's most, the most incredible DNS instructor I've had.

Oh, I know, I know. Is it, is it the girl who's in all the videos and she has brown hair? Is she on your feed? You know, do you have her on our feed somewhere? Hold on. I'm going to have to go look. I, I feel like, uh, gosh, I could, I feel like there's a girl that she's always wearing a white shirt and she's moving very slow and she's got brown hair. I think it's in a ponytail and, um, it's, uh, yeah, I don't know her name though. And I've never seen her, but she's always there. So she must be somebody. I've only been in one DNS, so I don't, I don't recall all the, uh, well, I don't know. I won't know all the people, but, uh, yeah, DNS yoga.

How many, how many DNS has you been to? I've only done three. Um, and yoga was my favorite. I took yoga level one and level two in Chicago and, um, I'm going to find the instructor, I swear. Well, so in, in your opinion so far, since I guess we didn't hit this yet, but we're kind of alluding to it with all these CEs is, um, what courses would you take if you were to, which ones wouldn't you take if you took, if you're going to take again or if you knew better and which ones would you take if you only had a budget, you have a student budget? I would continue to spend all of my extra money on continuing ed, but I would do it backwards.

I started with, um, modalities through like rock tape and, um, factor and, um, even DNS and stuff like that. And then about a year ago, I took the SFMA and I wanted to pull my hair out. I loved it so much. And I should, I think you should take maybe an assessment course, you know, and actually figure out what is happening with people, um, before you start slapping treatments on. So I kind of just wish I would have reversed everything that I took, um, because instead of learning how to fix this and how to fix this and how to fix this, and then, you know, a year later, you're like, oh, this is how you actually figure out what's wrong with someone.

Or you could just figure out what's wrong with someone and then learn different ways to treat that. Oh, you're right. What made you want to choose? Martina, Martina Yescova. That's her name. Martina. Okay. I'm going to look this up now and see if it's the same person. Martina. It's, it is. J-E-Z-K-O-V-A. K-O-V-A. That's it. Well, it comes up with DNS. All right. We're going to see who this is. No, this is not the person, but I have seen her face too. But she is a really, like really, really, really incredible instructor. Oh, nice. Yeah, I had, who did I have? Gosh, why am I forgetting? Dawne Costantino? No.

I don't know why I'm forgetting her name right now. But no, I did not have her. But I recognize her face, but that's not the person I was thinking about. So this whole thing's wrong. Okay. Just scratch it. Just scratch that, yeah. But yeah, I'm guessing she teaches out of your area, right? These are in Chicago. I mean, close enough. A train ride. It's funny. The first thing, so when I typed up her name, the first thing I found was a video on Google. It was a modified oblique sit. It seems like, and I've used DNS exercises for random stuff, and I use it frequently, and it seems like their claim to fame is the oblique sit.

Is there another one that I'm missing out on that is like the dominant thing where it's like, if you just do this and this, like, it seems like it helps. Abdominal pressure, I think that's it. Real actual diaphragmatic breathing in 360 degrees. And they'll partner that with joint centration and developmental kinesiology. So teaching people how to move happily, honestly, that's really it. And using intra-abdominal pressure as a really great source of stability for any sort of, any extremity movements, but especially explosive extremity movements. Or resisting rotational forces or something like that.

I like that, happily. Why do you think happily? You know, I read something once that was about teaching authentic movement patterns. Or relearning or allowing authentic movement patterns to exist. And it was my favorite way anyone has ever phrased that ever. It's like authentic. That's such a great word for that. Happily. I don't know. I like it. I don't know. It's just what sounded right. There was one time I was teaching. It was a part of a get-up. I don't remember what type of get-up anymore. What's a get-up? A get-up. Like a Turkish get-up. Oh, yeah. Okay. I'm here. Yeah. So, funny. So, I actually teach, just so you know, I don't teach get-ups.

I teach get-downs. Okay. And so, like, because there's baby get-ups, there's Czech get-ups, there's Turkish get-ups, there's all these different types of get-ups they're going to come up with throughout time. And my interpretation is, oh, you're just doing something a little different. And you're changing your base of support a little bit and just keep stable. And so, I'll usually teach people how to press a small weight into the air, like, you know, something 12, 16 kilos. And I'll say, get down. And at any point, you should feel like you can pause there and sing a song. And so, they don't feel like they're hyperventilating or hard bracing the entire time.

And so, this one time I was teaching this person, they just kept bracing really hard. And it was a light weight. It was just, I just wanted to relax and sit into the position. And so, I said, what's your favorite song? And I put it on the speaker at the office. And I said, I want to hear you sing, right? And so, making sure that they were chilled throughout the entire thing. So, I like your happy movement thing. What was the favorite song? It's important. Oh, I don't remember what it was anymore. But it had to be something they knew the words to, right? Okay. Yeah, I don't remember. It was probably like Five Finger Death Punch or something really angry.

Yeah, I don't remember anymore. I did do it on my own after that, and I did Country. Country? Yeah, I forget what it was. I think it was some Florida Georgia line. Oh. I don't know about that. You don't know about that? Okay. Okay, we're going to compare notes now. Okay. Tell me, if you only had to hear one band ever, what would it be? You're stuck on an island. You only get one band. I could even narrow it down to one song. I really could. One band, one song is Going to California by Led Zeppelin. Oh, really? That's the song. Yeah. Got it. Thanks, Dad, for that one. I would say if I were to be stuck on an island with only one band and all their collective items, it would be Aerosmith.

Okay. I can appreciate that. Oh, good. I get your respect back. You only lost it for about five seconds. The lack of respect? It's just a regular old Wednesday. Yeah. What do you want to talk about? What's been on your mind for the last week that you think, I really need to figure this thing out before I graduate, or I might just scream? What keeps you up at night? Oh, nothing. I sleep like a rock. Happy sleeping. I don't know if this really has to do with what I need to get done before graduating, but sort of what I've learned through school maybe already and something that I'm going to sort of, I don't know, stick to is like this style of media learning on the side and why podcasts and stuff have been really important to me and how they've changed my education a lot.

I mean, of course, I love Cleveland. I would definitely still, if I had to do it over again, I would still go to Cleveland. But sometimes I think, you know, there's, everyone sort of wants to make their experience their own. I think that's natural. That's human nature. You want to be really interested and invested in things that you're passionate about. And when you're in something, in a program like this, and there's a million different ways to, I don't know if you want to call it specialize or just. You want to get heavier into what you're interested in. I think that using the media as a learning tool is a really great option for students.

I had this really weird experience the other day. Not weird. It was great. It was wonderful. I was driving in the car to Stillwater, Oklahoma, which is where I'm from. And if you've ever made the drive from Kansas City to Stillwater or even to Oklahoma City, it's absolutely terrible. It's I-35 the whole way. Traffic sucks. The road sucks. Speed limit's slow. And so, naturally, I have on my favorite podcast, you can guess what it is. It's this one. And I was listening to- Oh, thank you. Yeah, I was waiting for that. Yeah. That was a delayed reaction. I'm always stunned by- I'm stunned so far by what you guys say because I don't think the things you think are valuable on this are actually more valuable to you than they would- I wouldn't think it.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was listening to the episode where- It's the podcast episode where you put the audio book of your I Will Be Back Pain book on, you know? It was only a few weeks ago, I think. Well, I only listened to it a few weeks ago. Yeah, that one's older than that. And I think I'm just- I'm going to have to start a petition to change the name of the book. To I Will Beat Literally Anything. I think you should just change the name. Thanks. I did think- It's funny, as I started to get responses by people about it, I started realizing that I was- that they- they're like, oh, this would be useful.

I have a person with a shoulder this would be useful for. It's too bad it's worded as back. And I thought, maybe I should redo it and just rewrite little sections. But at the same time, I realized I need to sell this one thing first and make it popular and then I can branch out. But I agree. I think it's the same message, right? Yeah, same message. And I'm going to push it even a little bit further because like what you were describing, like when you have the part where you're actually- you put in your own recording of a day where you were like struggling with your experience with low back pain and how you had like actually this little miniature identity crisis of like, what if I am having to deal with this thing forever?

Like what am I going to have to change? What if I can't play baseball anymore? Things that, you know, things that patients care about, things that people care about. And I was like drawing all of these parallels, you know, to my own life and my autoimmune diagnosis. So, I'm going to push it even further. This is not even pain. But it was sort of that diagnosis I got. And I think it's easy to get sucked into some like really horrible places in your mind, you know, thinking that you might have to upend your life and redefine who you are. And I don't know. I don't want to get super, super off topic.

But what struck me about your book is that those experiences you're describing and all the fear and even with, even with low back pain. I mean, that's something that as a young doc, like I've never experienced low back pain, you know, and I don't have any other relevant cases to pull information from. Like I don't have anywhere else to draw from. Just being able to like understand a little bit better in my own way, what my patient might be going through, I think that's invaluable. Because otherwise, even if, if I just hadn't plugged in my phone and listened to that podcast that day, like that's, I think I would be doing all of my patients a great disservice.

And those are little tidbits, like it seems like pretty innocuous, like you learn that from a podcast, but I think that's a big, big thing. Like not only would it have been difficult for me to imagine how mentally challenging low back pain can be, but it wouldn't even have been a consideration in the first place when I was managing a patient with like low back pain. I wouldn't have even thought about it. So I happened to listen to your experience and been like, oh my God, that's what people are going through. I know that feeling. I've been there maybe in a different way, but I think it's important to understand like that psychological component of, of what your patient is going through.

And I think I'm able to appreciate that in a new light. You know, that's something that I haven't been able to experience in the clinic. And here I am sitting in my car, you know, listening to someone else tell me about it. And I think I learned like a really incredible lesson. Oh, good. Yeah, I didn't, uh, honestly with putting it together, like I didn't, uh, I, I didn't want to reveal a lot of things on it cause it's, it's, and when I, when I started doing that and writing it, I actually scratched out a couple of things and I added some more and like, there's actually things, there's things I didn't, I didn't put in there.

And, um, I thought, I don't know how much to reveal. And is it, is like from a patient perspective, like there's, so I've, I've, uh, I have two interns right now. And so I, I told them that, so originally they would stand kind of like next to me, like on the side of me, kind of like when we're interviewing the patient because, or history taken with the patient cause they want to, they want to be in the mix too. And then so, uh, I realized that it's, it's, it's very hard as a patient to, to reveal these things in small details that we need as clinicians to help them and their fears and whatnot.

And it's really even harder to do it in front of a crowd. Right. And so I'll tell them to go behind, um, and, and not really be in lines or a viewpoint just so I can maybe get a little bit more from the patient. But there's, uh, I, I still recognize now that when I, when I interview patients of all the things that I need enough information to get them to come back and on the second and third time, if, if I see them, uh, through there is it's opportunities that you've gained more trust to get more information. Um, and so I guess when you're talking about the story in there, I revealed more probably than most patients would on you for first time, but it's probably seated in there.

Uh, and I bet with your autoimmune thing, it's probably in there too, right? Right. And, um, did you then when you were a patient for, for that, did you reveal things you thought were relevant or do you reveal everything? Only things I thought were relevant. And then as I started sort of self-treating and self-managing and watching, um, you know, sort of symptoms disappear or change or sort of my mental state, like ebbing and flowing, it was, um, less difficult to like confide, confide in my provider. You know, I was definitely more willing to open up about other ways like that. I was noticing changes.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but, um, yeah, you definitely don't let it all fly on the first try. Yeah. I mean, that's, it's tough. Well, I'm, I'm glad you got that from it. Uh, I, I didn't, uh, when it, when it was written, I actually, the intention was for the patient, but I didn't realize that it would. Cool. Isn't that funny? Yeah. I mean, I think like learning through the media, it gives us infinite exposure to ideas and situations that otherwise, like as, I mean, as a student or even as a practitioner, it would take you decades to accumulate maybe, and we can all, you know, do it while we're washing the dishes, um, I don't know.

I think it's pretty cool. Well, good. I'm, I'm, that's, that's good feedback. Actually, uh, I asked, I asked Geronimo about what I need to improve, uh, and, and what he's gotten from the podcast. And I think you gave me a solid answer on that so I can know where to go later with things. And, um, I guess it's interesting that I've had some, I think great people on, but, uh, the ones that he thought was very valuable was that, um, I actually released one to him only because I didn't know if I was going to put it on. And I said, look, it's just basically your judgment, whether this goes live or not.

Cause I, I don't, I don't see if there's a point and it was basically, it's, it's going to come out in like three weeks, but it's me just kind of, uh, I'm putting on this workshop coming soon and I hit like a writer's block and I don't know what the fuck I'm going to write. I don't even know how I'm going to, to explain how to look at things to people, uh, or to, to attendees. And I kind of, uh, it's, I used to, I don't like an algorithm way. I don't like that the SFMA has a solid algorithm. You know, I like the parts of it, but I don't know how to reveal it. And so it's just me talking like this to it.

And he's like, oh, this is, um, is one of the best ones. It's amazing. Keep it. And I'm like, holy, really? You want that? Okay. As long as it helps you guys, you can have it. But, um, what would you like me to add? What would help you? Um, I'm going to have to think about that. I don't, I don't know if I does, if I, you know, need more of this specifically, but I think there are little tidbits like in, so I don't know, not only has this podcast and in a bunch of the other like PT, Cairo podcast, clinic, gym, all the things they, they help you think differently about, you know, shoulder conditions and, and hamstring tightness and squat patterns or whatever.

But in, beneath all of that, or I'm in between it, at least there are these little like subtle patient care things and like little golden communication nuggets like that, that, like how to relay complicated ideas to a patient in relatively simple terms or how to communicate the importance of different movement patterns in a patient's everyday life and getting them back to something that they care about. Um, and sort of, I mean, how to describe the significance of like training movement patterns and I don't know, things like that. Um, so kind of like how to get them to the point that they want to be at, but explain it in a clear way.

Yeah. Okay. Like I just did a very poor job of doing, but I think those are things that students miss out on. Like, um, you know, we're hammered all day on IT band syndrome and adhesive capsulitis. And I think it's easy for students to get like really, uh, like tunnel vision, you know, you get, you just completely forget that there's an entire person attached to that arm or attached to that leg and that they have their own goals, you know, and, and, and ultimately you're spending an hour or two a week with that patient and they spend 24 seven with their body like every single day. So I think those little nuggets here and there, even if we're talking about, you know, um, all things hamstrings or anything, I think those little nuggets, they, they shine through in, and if you think that students don't pick up on those things, we do.

And, and, and we appreciate it. Oh, thanks. I always wonder if there's people out there. They stand out. They really do. And there's, you know, there's a lot of us, at least at Cleveland, I'm sure they're everywhere. We, we have our notebooks of, of tidbits. Oh, good. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. That's a good feedback. The, I wonder how that could be, I wonder how there could, I thought, I was thinking at one point, um, this, this wasn't a podcast idea, but this was just something I thought is that, so when we, when I got out of school, it was kind of like boards required you to take like a 18 minute history, right?

And so over the course of time, my history has gotten much longer, but I've also charged more for it. And I've gotten more information on the person in my skills of interviewing them and figuring out what their goals are and blah, blah, blah, it got better. And so I started almost thinking that it'd be nice to get a group of people together and do what we call like a real history taking session and say, look, you got, you're not allowed to do any type of, um, explanation of any type or any, um, uh, like you can't leave the room until you have spent like 25 to 30 minutes getting to know what this person wants and what their concerns are. Uh, and just practicing it, uh, cause everyone has a little different ways and you can pick up on the subtleties of like, do they think you're full of shit? You know, do they trust you at all? Are they giving you short answers? You know, things like that. Um, it'd be, it'd be nice.

Um, actually I, so I have two interns right now. Yeah. We, we talked the other day about, so they come in in the same bulk of time one day a week. And so they both have ridiculopathies. They both have things in their legs. And, and I said, first off, number one, you guys are like ninth term students. There's no reason for this. Figure it out. Right. I'll help you through it, but figure it out. And so, uh, we sat in the room the other day and I said, look, you gotta, you manage him and, and, uh, and you manage, uh, you manage her and you manage him, this guy and girl. And like, I'll, I'll look over your cases, but I want you guys to practice on each other every single time that you come and figure out what you should be doing. And so the girl was like, well, um, this occurred from, uh, she, she did with, she did heavy trap bar deadlifts from the floor. And so she, she runs, or she's a, she's a, she's a track athlete, cross country. And so I'm like, why don't we just go from higher? I'll go from higher. And she's like, uh, I don't know. I was being stupid and blah, blah. I'm like, are you open to changing that? She said, yeah, cool. And so the guy, he has to manage her. So she's very willing to make that change. And I think the change that we're suggesting won't sacrifice her sport whatsoever. And it'll really help her. Him on the other hand, um, he, like he was, I said, look, what, why don't we reduce your symptom a little bit and reduce the, uh, sensitivity of it by getting you up on blocks a little bit and get you to hinge again.

And, uh, his response was something effective. He, his goal is to be able to go from the floor. And it's not that he's an Olympic lifting athlete. He's not a power lifter. He just wants it. And so I just looked at her and I said, you got a harder patient. And, you know, and so he's, he wants that idea. I don't know why, but he wants that idea. Uh, and I said, look, you have to figure out how to manage that with him somehow communicative or just make it happen. Uh, and also too, from a, from a business standpoint, he's actually probably worth more money because he's asking for something which is, uh, more, I'm not against deadlifting from the floor, by the way. It's a, it's just higher risk for what he has currently. And so he's going to trigger more and he's going to be in your office more. And so he's worth more. And so I kind of want to see how that'll happen.

But those are two instances. And when you said the communication points, I think if, uh, if you, do you have people in your, in your, uh, school that you're close with that have problems that you guys are managing each other, like really managing each other, accountability and everything? Um, you know, not really. How come? Because we haven't thought of it, but we should. Uh, I, I do a lot of work with my girlfriend, Morgan. She was one of my girls. I went to, um, DNS yoga with, and we have been, you know, on and off. I have pretty lackadaisical actually retraining scapular stability on her. Um, and she does a really great job. She's, uh, she's super active. She actually leads, uh, what she calls mindful movement with Morgan. It's like a functional fitness class at a gym nearby. So she does a lot of work on her own. But, um, on one of our Fridays the other day, we're going through a DNS, like three month prone on her working scapular stability. She's lying prone, you know, pressure through elbows and extending the fingers to sort of engage her scapula and chin retraction and all the things. And, uh, she was like, I've been doing this, you know, week after week after week. And like, I just don't really feel like it's doing anything. So we spent like five seconds and just gave her like a couple of different cues. And she was like, okay, all right, everything is on fire. This feels good.

She's like, I needed someone to like actually look at me and, and give me some good cues. So I mean, even with the, in that case, she's extremely intelligent, knows her body knows how to rehab, but she just needed someone else there to cue her. And it would be fun to like long-term train each other. I mean, that would be a blast. I'd be interested to see how that goes. Cause I know that with, um, it, so in the book, I go over the story when I, when I went to Cody and, and you need someone. And so I've been able to relate to patients that they, they're like, like, I, like I'm not into long-term like, like pain management type of stuff. Like, but I tell them like, look, I've, I've had exactly what you have. Right. And you're expecting to come one time. And I, I'm like, not to sound arrogant. I know more than you do about it. I know all the skills to get rid of it. And I just can't do it. I couldn't do it myself. I literally offered to pay a friend and I did pay a strength coach to come in for a couple months. I'm like, I'm literally, I literally did exactly what I'm suggesting that you do.

And I know it costs a lot and so on, but people need it. And, and so if, I think if you guys practice, I think you're going to figure out the, uh, you're going to get a real patient experience of someone who's entrusting their health in you and you're, you're responsible for guiding them the entire way. You can't just ditch out, you know, um, maybe, uh, I don't know. We did the accountability game one time where if they don't do their homework, they owe 20 bucks. Oh, oh dear. Yeah. Oh no. You can try that. Cause you might have, you might have a negligent patient or, uh, you might have a patient who's non-compliant. It's a pretty good idea. I could use, I could use the extra cash.

Yeah. Well, you got to find the worst, uh, uh, non-compliant, you got to find a real non-compliant patient to make any money. Cause if they don't, if they do the exercise, they don't lose any money or they do the correction, they don't lose any money. And that just means that if we're trading, I have to do my corrections or else I'm going broke. Yeah, you're going broke. You won't be able to do all those posts with cookies and stuff anymore. That's a really good idea. What should we call it? A real history, a real patient experience. I don't know. A real patient experience. Yeah. Have you had a real patient experience yet? Cause the people that come into you for clinic, like at school, if they're like what we had, you see them once or twice and probably not again. Like it's not really cool. Um, sometimes it depends. And you can do whatever you want with this person. You're not held to the standard. Yeah. Sometimes we get, um, Medicare patients who are just looking to hang out at MMI and come in week after week. And, um, um, uh, we get a lot of everything. Sometimes we're responsible for bringing in most of our own patients. So I've got a lot of, um, buddies from coffee shops around the area who are coming in week after week to help me out. So thank you to everyone. Um, so there's a few of those and we do do some good work. We really do. Um, but I don't think there's ever a time in life where it's appropriate to stop pushing. I mean, ever or stop learning or stop trying to make, you know, your clinic experience what you need it to be. Um, so, and there's ways to do it. There really, there really are.

And honestly, Cleveland is getting better and better every day. So. Good. That's all we, that's all we need. Yep. Um, yeah. If you end up doing, um, let me know how that goes. Just, uh. The real patient experience. Or you can call it whatever. It's your idea. Yeah. I already wrote it down. So. Oh, good. Um, is there anything that you, uh, want to cover before we end? No. Okay. What's going to be on your gravestone then? On my gravestone? Yeah. Is, do you mean the end? Are you going to kill me now or something? Oh my God. Well, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to make it. I'm going to make the gravestone right now. So you still got to, you still got a couple months. I got to let the concrete cure. Concrete? It's not even marble?

Wait. Oh, well, no. No, you get concrete. I'll, I'll, I'll pay for, I'll pay for small aggregate though to make it really smooth. It won't be rocky one. Just bedazzle it. Yeah. That would be accurate. Yeah. You get a lot of rhinestones. What would it say? Um, I don't know. Probably keep moving. That's pretty much my motto. Okay. Sounds good. Physically and, you know, mentally keep pushing, keep moving. Good. You are, you are kind of going back and forth on this. I hear the pen clicking too. So. Oh, I'm one of those. I haven't been chewing on it this whole time. So that's an improvement. No, good. You probably miss pencils, don't you? Like you used to be able to just chew into and leave marks on them. You can't do a pen anymore. I miss pencils. I really do. So, um, as we clean up then, uh, I guess there is just one last thing is that, uh, just so I can know for myself. I think I already know the answer, but, um, uh, my, my effort with this podcast, like currently it's changed over the course of time, but I want to make sure that my mission now is to really improve the profession, just moving professionals. And so, uh, I want to, I'm curious of the things that have helped you throughout time, if they've helped you at all from this podcast and kind of, I just need validation to continue because I'm in a crossroads right now where I've done a hundred, almost 150 and at some point it could stop. And I don't want to speak, I don't want to be putting information out there if it's not being found or useful, you know what I mean? So, so I'm, I'm, I want to ask everybody of what has been helpful to them so I can get better um, I think honestly everything. I mean, I don't think I would be anywhere close to where I'm at today. Not that I'm, you know, incredible or anything, but I think that over the last, you know, a year or so as I've started to get a little bit more into actual patient management, what I learned from podcasts or media in general, especially this podcast has really changed the way that I view patients a hundred percent. I mean, everything from actually transitioning someone from rehab into loading or rehabbing a player onto the field or communicating to a patient that training a movement pattern is going to help them be able to pick up their child. Like just simple things that are sprinkled throughout every podcast. Okay. I'll keep sprinkling then. Just keep sprinkling. Sprinkles are the best part, especially even in cookies. I mean, okay. I do have a side question here then with this since you brought this up. Do you ever eat edible glitter? I have not. Okay. So people do. I don't think there's anything shiny in nature that is really good for you. How do they make that shiny? I don't know. I don't want to know. Just in case I ever do get the chance to eat edible glitter. You know, I have seen edible glitter now that I'm thinking about it on a macaron. On what? Um, let, you know, the little French cookies. Oh, macaroon, macaroon. You say macaron? Yeah. You Cajun. If you put two, two, no, I say it in France. Do they? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I heard macaroon.

If you, if you say macaroon, it's like the, like with two O's. I learned this not that long ago. It means the coconut kind. Like, have you ever seen those like little cookies that are like really round, almost like a ball and it's like shredded coconut? Yeah. Like snowballs. Right. That's a macaroon. A macaron is the little fluffy ruffled sandwich things with the cream in the middle. Oh my God. Okay. I know. Yeah. You can Google it. Macaroon versus macaroon. I could see it. There'll be a whole YouTube video about a French guy educating you about the proper way to say macaron. Oh my gosh. My first podcast episode will be all about cookies. It should be. Okay. Would be appropriate. Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks for being on. This was awesome. It was a blast. Thank you. All right, Hannah. Thanks so much for being on. That was fun conversation. Good times. Everyone, if you're looking to get in touch with Hannah, she is mainly on Instagram that I've seen. That's a underscore traveling.

That's not traveling. That's traveling Cairo, uh, at Instagram and she's a foodie. So you're going to love a lot of the posts that she has and, uh, good pictures. So, uh, you know, one thing too, that I thought I would mention here, cause I have had some of the listeners reach out and say, Hey, how'd that workshop go? Cause that workshop was in early June. I thought I would, uh, I'll have a podcast pretty soon about just all of the things that I've learned throughout it and the experiences. I think it went extremely well. Uh, I was honestly pretty freaked out in the beginning about like that night before I was thinking, man, I, I can't believe I'm going to talk for so long tomorrow. And I hope that people have questions for me, but it went really great. And I think we dropped some really great clinical pearls and, uh, some of the people there walked away, uh, with some great things to use on Monday. And for the most part, I think we're lagging a little bit with the, uh, the clinical gems that I really wanted to walk away with was more of the loading ones. And, uh, they walked away with a lot of first aid ones, which are good, but I think I need to do a little bit more, um, coaching in how to use and when to use the loading stuff. And we did have a case study come in, so we did go into some loading and I hope they at least took those ones away.

The frozen skater is an amazing one. Uh, a loaded diagnosis is another great one as well. And so what I was kind of thinking, actually I finished that course. I told everyone like, look, I don't know, I don't know if I'm going to do this again. And it's not because it wasn't fun. It's just like the CE thing was kind of a cumbersome thing to me, but like we, we were there all day Saturday from like, um, like all the way in the morning to the afternoon. And we got back and, and we had tomahawk steaks in the grill. If you saw on Instagram, we were having some beer, having a good time. We're out there till 10 o'clock and we did it again on Sunday just for a handful of hours. And it was, it was great. It was great to see everybody. We're laughing. It was, I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. And so what I was thinking was actually that I'd like to have this experience with more people, but maybe with the CE thing out of the way. Cause honestly, a lot of the people that went to the workshop didn't even need CEs. They just knew that I had some good information to, uh, to present and, uh, they trust my judgment. And so they were happy and we had a good time.

And so I was thinking to propose an idea of a, an undecided date, at least at this point, um, in August or September. And I'm thinking kind of close to maybe, uh, maybe August 24th or September 7th. It'd be a single day. Um, just only just burning through all that good stuff and then having that same, um, hangout session afterwards, barbecue at the garage, have some beer, just brainstorm thing, um, learn, learn what everyone else is doing a little bit more and recap on the things of the day. And so I thought I would do that, but I, again, I don't know if I, I don't trust that I can, that I can sell things to, uh, you guys and I don't like selling things, but at the same time I realized that I do have some stuff of value and things to drop. And so, uh, if I can, why don't we do an early bird discount on this thing? And we'll make it all the way to the best day of the year, which is July 4th, July 4th. Okay. At midnight, July 4th, the price is going to go up on this. All right. Early bird discounts is $500. Last time it was really cheap. Okay. I told, I told everyone I'm not going to do anything that cheap again. And that was mainly just as a teaser for everything and just see if it worked out well and I had a good time. And so after that, it's going to jump to about, I think we're going to go with 650. Um, you'll know more of the specifics on Instagram. If you follow me at performance HB, you'll know a better idea. Um, and I'm recording this early. Uh, and so at the time of this podcast, I'll probably know better with the dates and I'll probably start dropping the dates down there. Yeah. Honestly, if I don't get eight people by June 30th or so, or July 4th, like I'm not going to do it. Um, and I mean that in a nice way. I love the summertime. Uh, I love, I love going to the beach. I love, I love boating.

And so I'll probably just plan a boating trip. Like that is, that is primo like boating time. And so here's what you can expect. I'm going to go over some clinical pearls. All right. And, uh, the things that really in my practice, which have, it's, it's a, it could, it could blow your mind and change your practice. All right. If you feel like you'd like you can do a better job, especially with things like hip impingements, low backs, mirage of parasitica, uh, runner's knee, hamstring strains, foot issues, let's say, um, plantar fasciitis, heel pain, things of that nature in running populations or endurance populations. I'm going to show you how to get these people really feeling great, really without doing any manual therapy whatsoever.

The patient gets extremely empowered with this type of thing. Uh, and you can get them loaded. All right. And then when you get them loaded, they start feeling strong, right. And resilient and they can return to the activity they really love. And so this is how I typically manage people. All right. I tend to get them into that room first. And then they're like, Hey, what about this and this and that formerly to massage and adjustments? I'm like, great. Those are going to be things that are going to be implemented a little bit further in your care, but I need to empower you first, make you strong and get it. So you can reduce your symptoms, uh, on your own. Cause it's all about that suggestion that I give is a medication quote unquote. And I don't know what dose of medication will work, but I know for sure that it's going to work better if they do it on their own and not just me one time in the week. So if you're interested in something like this, please reach out to me. Okay. You can do email. That's Seb at P2SportsCare.com or just go on to, uh, uh, again, Instagram, uh, at performance HB and I'll, and I'll share, I'm sure I'll have a document at that point, giving you all the details and so on. But I, if this goes well, if this goes as I plan for it to go is that after this course that I had, so some of my good friends that came, they had some really good responses on Monday and I'm really excited that a lot of them are now searching what else to then do spend their CE dollars on. And so a couple of them wanted to go to neurodynamics, which I thought, man, that is, that is ground. Like that is good. Right. Another person really wanted to investigate more of McGill's work that, I mean, that is good. Right. And so another person wanted to go to Phillips and those fix your own back. All good. Right. All these things, all these types of information that you can implement in your practice, it will change the game. I know I keep saying that, but it will. And so, by the way, if your student's listening to this, I do have you in mind.

Okay. But with this, there is no student discount. Okay. I'll say it again. There is no student discount. However, if you're interested in a student discount, we do have a student only day. By the way, that workshop I'm talking about right now that we're thinking about doing, that I'm thinking about doing, it's an only single day thing. It'd be on like a Saturday. And so if you're a student, they are, SCU or Los Angeles College of Chiropractic, some of the students over there have already gathered together and they've already attempted to book me for at least one day. I think right now there's 14 students who have already expressed strong interest. I think there actually might be eight more than that. And so 23 or so. And so we're only capping at 14, but one of the guys who's interned with me, Kyle Hemsley, which I can direct you to, he's kind of doing all that stuff because he's the one who wanted to put it together. Like he asked, can we do a little bit more of a workshop thing for students? And so there's just a set price at all it is. And so if one person comes, they're going to pay the set price, right? If three people come, you split it by three, but you have to like, if you students want it, like, I think you're going to pay around like 150 to $200. Like it's severe discounted for what I'm talking about here. So please reach out to Kyle on that. Kyle Hemsley, or if Kyle's like, Hey, I'm not doing this anymore. Just reach out to me and I'll put you in contact with someone who can maybe admin that stuff. Cause I want to help the students out, but at the same time, it's like, if I did it for that price, so the entire, like I, it's, it's, I mean, this in a nice way I could be doing other things, you know, and we do mean that in a nice way, but I do like to help the students. So that'd be like a six hour thing. Okay. Long-winded. I'll probably talk about that a little bit more over time, but leave people better in how you found them. And please, if you're dating, dating the Eagle Scout, they're pretty cool. All right. See you later.