Jen Esquer on Social Media, Breathing and Building a Practice

So I say this all the time. Who is your audience? Because if you're really trying to get at the general population, but you're also trying to be like, hey, look at me, I'm the best clinician, you're not going to gain an audience. You're not going to really get that organic following and people to gravitate towards you the way that you want to. We actually just need to talk to our audience, talk to the general population who literally knows nothing about the body. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey, everyone, it's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host for the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thank you. I'm grateful for you listening in. And this is going to be a good interview today. And that was a short clip of the interview with Dr. Jen Fit. You can find her on Instagram or her real name, which actually, I don't think I've ever actually really heard it much. You hear Dr. Jen Fit a lot, but her name is Dr. Jen Esker. She'll clear that up in the interview. But yeah, if you don't follow her on Instagram, you probably should, as well as a half a million other people.

And she shares her story today on how she's given a lot of great information on social media, but then also reap the benefits in regards to business online sales, as well as seeing the amount, the types of people, the cash paying people that she wanted to in person. And so just qualifying this, this is probably going to be more useful interview for young clinicians or even clinicians like myself. I'm 10 years out of school, I learned a ton on this because I don't know much about Instagram and I find social media, not YouTube as much, but I love podcasting and YouTube. And what I find a little bit of a burden, it's just hard and there's not always a lot of benefit on the other side.

But as you hear Jen speak, she's, she digs it. She's all about it. And she did it for, what, two years, I think, when she was in school and didn't ask for a thing in return. She's just giving, give, give, give, give, give, give. And when she finally launched some of her products, which she has courses now, there's such a great response because everyone's so appreciative of the information she gave. So just she has a passion for it. If you're a, if you're a lay public or a patient or anything of that nature, you're still going to get a little bit from this. And if you follow Dr. Jen Fitt, Dr. Jen Esker, Jen, I'm going to have a hard time with that in this intro, but you're going to just like hearing about her.

And this is very conversational today. We do go into some topics of business, but it's a very conversation, so you'll be able to hear it and listen to it and be entertained. So the show notes for this will be on p2sportscare.com. Just search on the search bar, Dr. Jen Fitt. You'll go right to it. And now on to a little bit of my personal corner. So this one's, this one's a little bit of embarrassing one, but I asked Jen to share one of her embarrassing things of her childhood. So I'm going to share mine. We would go boating every year at this one lake in the Central Coast, which I still go to a lot.

And when you're on that lake, it's a pretty big lake. You get to the far edges of the lake, and there's no more of those floating toilets or anything like that. So I had to go to the bathroom. So you go up into the woods up there, and you just go, and then lo and behold, we don't have any toilet paper either. So I think I was about, I probably had to be 12 at the time, something like that. So I'm colorblind, and so I can't really see red-green as much. I get a little confused. So I looked around, and there's the biggest softest leaves you can find was a big one with a bunch of points on it. And lo and behold, that was poison ivy.

So there was a big problem there. I actually had to have, after a couple days, I realized it was so bad I needed to go have an injection. And walking was tough, but now you know the softest leaf in the forest is not the most safe either. So always carry toilet paper when you're on a lake. I hope that was more embarrassing than yours, Jen. Okay, so lastly, if you're on iTunes or Google Play, please review this podcast for me. It helps give me some feedback of who you want to hear, what you want to hear about. I'm doing my best, and feedback is extremely important. And the feedback I've gotten from some of you people is amazing.

I had a few people that emailed me, and they said, I really love the podcast, and it's helped me out, get through school, and so on. And I just email them back, and I say, look, I'm really happy you emailed me. Because sometimes, as a content creator, and Jen can probably say this too, you feel like there's not always someone on the other side. And when you finally realize that you are helping people, it really motivates you to do it more. So if you guys like this, please let me know. It helps me out a ton. Let's get to the interview. Okay, everyone. Welcome on Doc Jen Fit. Hi. Hello. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah. Does anyone actually know your last name? Some people do. You know, my old Instagram handle was Jen underscore E-S underscore care, because you pronounce it Jen S-care. Oh. So back in the day, people followed me from way back when, and they knew what my last name was. When, what was happening at the moment where you thought, I'm going to change this name to this, and then, who are you brainstorming that with, or just come off the top of your head? No, actually, my boyfriend's really good at all names. Like, he came up with my name for my product, even. I mean, he's just, like, really creative in that aspect.

And I was trying to think of, you know, I became a doctor of physical therapy, and I graduated, and I was like, everyone knows me as fitness, and I want people to know that I do a little bit more than this, that. And I have some knowledge, and I went to school, so I just really wanted to change my name into something that flowed with that and was easy and catchy, because you also don't want to create something too long. And I had a bunch of, like, underscores in it, so that wasn't going to work. So we were, like, brainstorming, and we came up with Dr. Unfit, and it worked. So did he name your cat, too?

No, no cat. Your guinea pig, chinchilla? Nothing, nothing yet. We'll see. You don't have a small animal? I don't. I'm never home. Yeah, but, okay, so rabbits. It's like a rarity. Rabbits are the best animals, by the way. They're better than cats. Better than cats, really. Well, they like you, and you can leave them for, like, three days at a time, and they're fine. That's true. You can still do that. That's true. I could. What would be the first animal that you would get when you can actually get an animal? Probably a dog. I imagine a basset hound or a yorkie. Definitely not a yorkie. Maybe something I can run with.

You know, I really like pit bulls, actually, as well. Really? You are from L.A. Yeah. Is that why? I like pit bulls because I'm from L.A.? I don't know. I actually don't see, I don't feel like I see a lot of pit bulls, and it seems like certain, I feel like highly dense areas of where people are living, my observation is they seem to like, or have more pit bulls. We're just more compassionate, you know? Maybe. I feel like there's more golden retrievers in suburbia areas. Oh, yeah, that's true. White picket fence. Watch out for the kids. Yeah. Okay, so just to frame this, I've already kind of introduced you a little bit.

Yeah. But for the most part, I thought that Young Docs, and even too, I'll ask for myself because I don't know all the stuff that you know on this, is how to navigate social media. I know that you probably only have one or two main platforms, but how do you convert this actually into online business versus also to actually having patients walk in the door? Yeah. Yeah, that's huge. You know, when I started my social media, it was back in grad school, and it was about four years ago. So it was at a time when growth was a little bit easier because I didn't even mean to grow. It was not my intention to have a social media, to have a platform, to do anything.

That's why I had underscores in my name, and it made no sense. It was literally for friends and family, and once it started to take off in the fitness realm, and then once I graduated and changed my name and started getting more educational, that's when I was at a clinic and having people come in specifically asking for me, paying cash to the clinic so that they can come see me, even if the clinic didn't accept insurance. I was having people reach out outside, and I was seeing a couple people at a CrossFit, a couple people just privately at their homes outside of my clinic, and so just starting to have people reaching out to me through that space just because of the information I was putting up, which was a lot of just, you know, educational-based content.

And for me, it felt really basic. It felt like I'm not giving anything that people don't already know, but the reality is people don't know anything. So especially starting off as a new clinician or even a student, you think, what information do I have to share? And that happens a lot because in social media, we compare a lot, right? We see, oh, this doc is doing this, this doc is doing this, and we get into this comparison mode, or we look up to people, which is what I did. I looked up to a lot of people that I was like, I don't want them to judge what I have to say or what I do, what I put out there.

So it was like really kind of a scary thing to actually just start doing it and let go of whatever people might think of me and how I might be respected by my peers. And once I was able to let that go and just continue to give content, because I knew that I was providing value. And the more that I felt people were getting value from it, the more that I wanted to promote and post and continue the consistency. It didn't feel like work. It felt like a fun thing because I was getting people so much value and I was getting that feedback. And so the more value that I put out, the more people were reaching out.

And that's really how I started to grow my side business and essentially turn that into my full business. And I quit my job. And I literally decided in like a day, I was like, why am I still here? People are reaching out to me and working with me privately. And I just decided to up and quit. And I gave a week's notice. I was like, I got to figure out this whole entrepreneur thing. So I'm going to have to leave you guys a little earlier. And I put in my week's notice and I just, my patient load was filled up. Like I was working six days a week all of a sudden and it filled up pretty quickly just because of that consistency.

And once you start with clients and you're the only clinician, you don't have aids, you don't have anyone helping you, you know, you can't see that many people. So word of mouth goes really far when you're just on your own working with no other overhead, no other, you know, I, yes, I rented space and that was about it. That was my overhead. So the fact that I can just provide value from word of mouth and get clientele in from word of mouth and then continue with my consistency and people reaching out to me through social media. So that's how I was able to sustain just working for myself. Well, that's a lot.

There's a couple of points I get a tangent in there and I was afraid you were going to stop when I was drinking that coffee. But yeah, that's, that's cool. So, but I, so I think the, the first thing I grabbed on what you said was that, um, the simple things that you could show people that they didn't know. And, um, I know that I, I did a presentation, um, just recently at one of the local chiro schools or at the only one local to us really. Um, it was based upon YouTube and I said, how come you have not used YouTube yet? Because like you said, with your Instagram was easier back then and it's much more challenging now, but I said, how come you haven't made it in yet?

And they're like, well, because everything that I feel like I would share has already been done. Yeah. She's put her hands in the air, everyone. Um, um, but yeah, so it's already been done. And, but also too, like, I'm sure that I got a phone call yesterday from one of my best friends. He's like, uh, so it, my back hurts right now. It's never happened before. I got out of bed. It hurts more in the morning. It hurts to sit and hurts to turn. I'm like, okay, so can we just, I'm going to send you one video of McKinsey extension and let's just see. Right. So even like the fundamentals, they, they don't know.

They don't know. Exactly. So then when you, what's the first thing you made? Do you remember that video? Um, yes, actually I do. Cause I was, I was in Toronto at the time with my friend, uh, Vinny rehab. People might know who he is. He was actually the one who was like, you know, a lot of yogis follow you. People think you do yoga. I was called Jen, the yogi for like ever. I still am from some people. I'm like, where, where does it say I do yoga? But okay. Well, the pants insinuate such. It was the pants and the handstands, you know, the handstands are really big. Like you must be a yogi then.

Um, so he said, just start talking to yogis, you know, like use a pose and talk into the body the way, you know, the body and how that could actually open up into that pose. And so I was like, okay. And so the first one I started to do was all about, um, I posted just a picture of like an anatomy photo of, of someone doing a, a bridge or a will pose, whatever you want to call it. And, um, I put a little arrow into the low back and I said, this week I'm going to address how to keep the pressure out of only your low back when you're doing a bridge or a will. And so the first video that I did after that was talking about upper back extension.

And I did, you know, a few of the exercises. I did the anatomy photo right next to the video. And when I woke up the next morning, so granted back then I had a hundred thousand followers, I believe, but I would still get about like 20,000 views for a video was really good for me. I woke up the next day and I had 68,000 views and I was like, what this is on upper back extension. How did this happen? How boring. And I was like shocked and I was like, okay, let me continue this. And the more I continued it, the more views I got, the more followers I got. And it was just, it felt so cool because it was like, oh, I don't have to come up with this whole like fitness sequence or handstand thing that looks really cool and catchy because that's what I was doing before.

I could just provide simple exercises or stretches or whatever it may be, corrective exercises to show how to get out of pain or how to open up a certain body part and people loved it. So the more that I started to feed into that and I started with yoga poses. So it started with the will and then I went into like warrior poses and different things like that until I was like, let me just talk about the general body. And so, and the more that I did that, I think I got a broader audience following me. Um, I did, and, and it's always the videos that you don't expect to do well or the videos that actually end up taking off.

So I remember one of, I, I try to stay consistent with like, I'm going to talk about this particular thing this week and then show the exercises or stretches that, um, would lengthen out throughout the week. And one day I needed to show stretches based on the lower body and I didn't want to do just the same boring thing I've always done. So I created a little flow on the floor and just thought, whatever, I'll just put them together. That video hit a million views. Really? Damn. And from that video, I grew 40,000 followers that week. That week? Wait, from a hundred to four, wait, you grew 40 extra more.

40,000 followers that week. Damn. How many, so wait, did you turn your volume off at that point? What goes? Ping, ping, ping. I think I turned it off a long time ago before that. Um, but you know, it's, it, so it's, you can plan out and I, you should, I still do every week. I plan out what do I want to talk about? Who am I talking to? What am I talking into? And I still plan that out every week, but you never know what videos are going to be taking off. So my best advice is just be consistent. That's good. Actually, um, I, I've, I've experienced the same thing with the YouTube stuff is that, um, for actually the grassroots of my business was that I didn't have anyone to help.

So I would make these videos on like, say a bridge. It's like the patients would come in and they're like, Hey, that exercise you showed me last time. Can you show me again? I'm like, no, this is going to take like, I made a video on it. Come on. Like, let's just do that. And all the same cues are in there. And then if you really need some more information, I'll, I'll help out, you know, but I want to make sure they have a reference. So these videos started taking off too, mainly because I didn't have anybody else, but there was a couple in particular that there, so there's one point, uh, one right now is at 1.4 million.

Um, one of them is at like half. And then the videos that I look at their quality, I'm like, that's not the one I would have picked. Exactly. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it is nuts. Um, you just never know, but that's why you continue to put out comments. Yeah, the, so I, I've noticed that Pete, like yours has a certain feel of every single one. You put an anatomy picture and then you put you doing something on the side. And I noticed a lot of other people do the same stuff. Is that like just, you all copied each other or someone found something that worked or was there like a reference to this? Um, actually I gotta, I gotta say Vinny Rehab is the one who told me to do the half anatomy half video.

Um, and the reality is it's when you're looking at social media, especially Instagram is such a visual platform. Um, the other ones, they're more audio based. They're more like you can be creative in terms of how you create your, your video, but, but Instagram in particular is a very, very, um, image based platform. So you have to put up something that is going to catch the eye within the first three seconds. I mean, this goes across the board, Facebook, Instagram. So like any kind of social media, yes, you have to be catchy, but Instagram, it's so easy to just scroll past. So if you're not putting something that is going to catch the eye and be like a billboard, then no one's going to go to it.

No one's going to click and follow it. Um, it's the reason why, you know, these Instagram models who just post their butt have taken off and created huge followings, their billboard, their billboard for their body and people like that. So if you want to create that in the clinician space, then you have to catch people's eye when they don't know what the video is. They don't know what you're going to teach them. So how are you going to draw them in? So typically if I can show an anatomy photo with like a big red dot on the shoulder or a big X on the knee, something that is going to tell you, I'm going to talk about this pain you have in the knee.

I'm going to talk about this shoulder pain that you have. And if I can draw that attention right there, then you know that they're going to most likely want to watch the video. And that's really where the draw is, um, where I see people kind of lose the, their audience is if you're using too many technical terms, if you're talking to other clinicians, but you're also trying to be like, Hey, look at me. I'm the best clinician. You're not going to, you're not going to like gain an audience. You're not going to really get that, that organic following and people to gravitate towards you the way that you want to, you might be like one up and one of your clinicians, but who cares?

Like we need to stop talking to other clinicians and get that out of our head. Cause that's not our audience. We actually just need to talk to our audience, talk to the general population who literally knows nothing about the body. So you have to like bring it down to a level where people can understand. Cause that's where people are going to trust you. And honestly, if you're bringing it down to a level that people understand, that means you understand the content yourself really well. You know, you don't have to use these big technical terms. You don't have to use these really creative, weird exercises.

It could just be so simple to be able to talk to a general population and something that you know can provide value. So then when you've gone through so many videos already, then do you feel like I've already done this? I don't, am I just going to do this again or I got to do it a different way or? Yeah. Sometimes I say, okay, how can I make this a little different? And then sometimes I repost, you know, you're going to continue to get a new audience and people who, and majority of the people, unfortunately don't see your content anyways because of the algorithm. So even if there are following you, they might not have seen your video.

So I will repost a whole week sometimes. Oh, really? And, and they still do well. It saves time. Yeah, it does. And I don't do this all the time, but I do, if I'm like having a week where I just know that there's no way I can get content in, I am going to go like scroll way back and say, what can I pull in to, um, to just deliver information today? Are you, are you daily? I think you're daily, right? I'm daily. Yeah. Okay. If there's someone, if, if they're starting out and if young doctors starting out and they're like, uh, they don't want to do daily. What's a, what's a rough, uh, was weekly fine two times a week?

Daily. It's a lot of work. I mean, it is a lot of work. At the same time, I was posting daily when I was in grad school daily when I was at like working a clinician job as well, taking courses so I can continue to learn. Um, still working out, still working on myself, meeting people like, yes, it is work. And I would probably spend 20 to 25 minutes filming for the week, which is really easy. I would have one of my aides. I, I was good at bribery because I got a lot of free clothes. So I'd be like, if you film for me every week, I will give you shirts, some of my free stuff that I get. Um, so I, I kind of had to draw that way, but you know, you can also tell an aid, Hey, you're going to learn from me if you film some of this stuff for me.

So it, and it's not going to take that much of your time or maybe I'll work out with you or maybe I'll help you on this little thing, like give value so that you can get value back too. So I would have an aid film for the week or for the day, whatever I was going to do or however much time. And then yes, it takes time. It probably would take me at least an hour to do the editing, which I only did on my phone and the, and the caption. So every day, um, just question on videography skills. Cause I've actually had aides and interns do this for me and I get back though that the footage on the other side, I'm at home, I'm looking, I'm like, Oh my God, I got to crop everything.

Yeah. So you do have to be super specific and because I do like the half anatomy, half video, I'm never filming horizontal for YouTube. It's completely different, right? You have to film horizontal. You need a little bit crisper, clean content that is steady. Instagram doesn't really matter. Like I tell people, as long as I stay in the middle of the screen, move around me, move closer, like whatever. It doesn't really matter as long as people can see what you're doing. Um, and I also tell people, even if you don't do the half anatomy, the video, I would still film vertically, not horizontal, because again, looking at a billboard, if people are going to be scrolling through, are they going to see a little tiny horizontal video or are they most likely going to see a bigger video that fills up most of the screen?

Hmm. Okay. Interesting. I always thought I, since I do most stuff for YouTube, actually I go horizontal and then I started playing with, I'm like, well, I'll just repurpose this to Instagram. And, uh, I found that was the most challenging, frustrating thing because everything was already panned the wrong way. Right. And I thought, is this a conspiracy? Like all of the, like Facebook doesn't want you to use certain types and it's like LinkedIn has different different, what the hell? And what, whatever happened to like using your cell phone, like, you know, the keyboard was supposed to be easier to go like this.

Yeah. No one does that shit. No, definitely not. Um, it's all changed, but yeah, so that's why it's like, it's kind of, it's, it's different content. Right. And even if you, I mean, I don't, I don't know how open you'd be, but like I would not even mind cropping some of the things out if I made it a square. Yeah. Um, yeah, I know that my personal experience with cropping with it is it's fine other than the fact that, and probably no one notices this but me, but all the watermarks are now messed up and any of the subtitling. I know, I know. But, but to be honest, like I get that the subtitling looks great on Instagram, but it still looks better when it's a horizontal or vertical video.

Yeah. You don't, you don't subtitle really, do you? Vertical or, uh, longer. Um, no, I, I don't because the time. If, yeah, I just, I don't, but people know, I, I don't talk that much. I have been a little bit more lately. Um, and sometimes they do good. Sometimes they don't. I mean, it's the same with like move. You does not subtitle. Right. And they do amazing. I think that, I think it, I think if you've been following them, you already know they're going to like the, I think the value they provide is, is the comedy. Yes. So you turn it on, but I think I know his voice by now. Um, I know. Yeah.

100%. But he, he does, he is very consistent, right. In what you're going to get and what you're going to, they're going to deliver. So, and sometimes to be honest, the nicer that you make the, um, the content on Instagram, it just doesn't translate as well. Like Jacob Harden, I will say went really nice on, on, he started doing the captioning and doing all like the cool effects and everything. He went really nice, but I think his growth slowed down. It's just not as necessary on Instagram that needs to be a little bit more eye catchy quick to the point. Like I don't, I wouldn't do intros for Instagram because you're going to lose people.

I wouldn't do, um, you can do the captions, but again, I would keep it square or vertical and, and what is going to be the catching point? If I don't see something in the very beginning, that's going to make me want to watch the video. Why would I do it? So, and people always are going to want to blame the algorithm. They're going to want to blame everything else. And I understand that. But at the same time, we can't. The only thing that you can do and the only thing that you can control is creating good content. So, and making it catchy enough for people to be able to see it. And the reason, you know, again, I'm doing the half an enemy photo with, with the red dot or whatever the red paint or whatever it may be, because I know that that is going to draw people into my message.

And ultimately, ultimately my message is take care of your own body, right? Move into yourself, tune in, start to, you do have the tools within you to start doing that. I'm just going to help facilitate it. So if I can start getting people into that and into my message, then I know I'm helping and I'm providing value. I think I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to steal some tips that you gave and I'm going to do a social experiment, by the way, the catchiest thing in this whole, since we're doing a zoom call, I'm noticing the yellow accent pillow, the canary yellow accent pillow. And I can't get around it because it's everything else in the room is so, I don't want to say sterile.

That's yellow. Oh yeah. You're okay. You're right. It does match. My little end table. That's what it goes with. There's the accent. So, so do you have, do you have the feel of like a clean, clean house, clean mind? Because I see even like the, the towels in the bathroom are very like pressed and folded and. Yeah. I mean, it helps so much. It really does. Like making the bed every day is essential. Even if I'm not going to be home, just knowing that things are like put away, things are clean. And it does help like create that organized space in my mind so that I know I can get things done and I can like conquer the day.

How do you, how do you feel when you get home and you realize there's a spot that someone sat on the bed and you can tell. I'm totally fine with it. I'm not that at all. I really am. As long as I, as I committed to like, you know, getting my, my clean space, like I know that I did that and I'm good. If it gets messed up later, that's fine. I had this room in my house. We get, I get a two bedroom place and I had a dog at the time and the dog was a golden retriever and there's hair all over. She wasn't the hairiest dog, but they're like, when I'm about to go to work, I kind of want to, sometimes I just want to lay down on the ground and like stare at the sky.

And so there was this room where I called the no Maggie room because I didn't want to think about it. And it was just a sterile room, basically nothing happened in there. No hair, no hair, no hair zone. That's, that's good. You at least set up your space so that you can have that. Yeah. That was my space. I like that. Um, what is a, do you have an, do you have an embarrassing childhood story you can tell everybody who, um, in it's, I guess it wasn't that young, but, um, when I was in high school in my senior year, um, I did gymnastics for nine years. So a little background, I did gymnastics for nine years.

It is very dangerous when you fall asleep because sometimes you have dream about gymnastics. And so I can imagine this is going, I was sitting in my anatomy. We were watching this boring video and I ended up falling asleep and I kind of like laid down on the side of my arm and I ended up falling asleep and we're sitting in the, like the high stools in the lab rooms, you know? And all of a sudden I sat up and I threw my arms in the air because I was going to do a back handspring in my dream. And I landed all the way on the ground is sitting in my, my legs were still like in my chair in the stool, but it was like a hard ground.

You can imagine those labs are like not, no carpet there. Right. And it was hilarious. Like the teacher ran over, people didn't know, do I laugh? Is she okay? What happened? Yeah. Um, I ended up having like the biggest welt, like behind my head. And, um, it, I guess it wasn't that embarrassing. I was like, oh yeah, sorry, fell asleep. You know, did a back handspring in my dream. So you actually, you, you ended up, you, you landed the back handspring and did a dead bug. I did. I did a dead bug. I did with my arms overhead. Someone told me it was like, I sat up and I threw my arms and I like paused on the stool for a second and then went all the way down.

Wait, so do you sleepwalk then? I don't. I do. I, I'm told that I, I mumble and I talk in my sleep sometimes, but I don't sleepwalk. Did you, um, did you ever have any nightmares about certain jobs that you had actually? Uh, I'm sure I have. Never had any? I do not remember. I had, I had some from wedding tables back in the day and, uh, yeah, I worked at Polly's Pies. So we call them polymers and, uh, they would just keep seating you and they would never get you drinks. And you had like a five table station and you have everyone asking for drinks and be ordered at the same time. And there's timing people.

There's timing. So, um, yeah, I think that was the last time I had nightmares about work anyways. That's good. No more nightmares about what you do now. No, I do. I do. I did. I have some actually a couple of weeks ago. Um, I recently, do you know, um, do you know, uh, Cody D-Mac and, and Mary Ann? They were, Cody was at, Cody was at the shacklock seminar. Um, he was the, he's the guy that looks like a big linebacker. Yeah. I remember. Oh, he was sitting next to me. Yeah. Oh yeah. So they just recently left and they moved to Dallas. So they sent all their patients over to me. So I was, I was, uh, panicking about how to integrate people.

So, and I've, I haven't worked on a Wednesday probably in about five years and I'm going to work today and I committed, I committed to working for the next maybe month just to integrate everybody. And after that, I'm going to stop working Wednesday. That's good. Is that the only day you don't work? No, I don't work Fridays, Saturday, Sundays, but the, like the, like the, like Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, I'm here for like 10 to 12 hours. And it's, uh, I don't, I don't know how you feel working with people, but there's some days where I just feel like I'm a sponge to their emotional and physical concerns.

Yes. And I like creating content. I think I, I just can't jump between it with patients. I need to have a whole day or at least a half a morning. Yeah, it, it is exhausting. I mean, that's the thing also about kind of building the practice that you want to build, right? Once you're out of the regular type clinic where it's just hustle, go, go, go. You actually get time with people. And when you get time with people, you get to really take on a lot of their emotional stuff that's happening, which is beautiful, um, because a lot of pain comes from whatever is happening within their life. So diving in is really, um, a special thing to be able to connect with, but also it is exhausting.

Yeah, right. It is, it is emotionally draining. It is exhausting to take on a lot of, um, what's going on with them. Yeah. I think they, I mean, I think that's a critical part of our job, but so critical. I guess you got to be able to unplug, but then still care for them, you know? Yes, yes. Like truly diving in, truly connecting is the key to getting a patient better. That's what I believe. Yeah. The, um, uh, you've gone to, well, we went to that shacklock seminar. What else have you gone to recently that you think, uh, maybe some that changed the way you create content or how you practice or, um, cause shacklock one was actually groundbreaking to me.

Yeah, that one was great. That one was awesome. Um, really, I think almost my greatest value is like what I get out of the people that I'm around, um, in terms of learning from them. So there's actually a, a trainer who I'm obsessed with and I've learned a lot from him. He is deep in PRI, like deep in PRI, taking all the courses and taught for them a little bit. And the way that he integrates it with his professional athletes, cause he only has, uh, professional basketball players, professional baseball players, professional dancers. So the way that he has integrated PRI into the exercise, uh, platform is been really inspiring to see.

Um, so I've actually learned a lot from him, which has been awesome. Um, and, and then, you know, just sitting and talking with people. I actually, I went myself to see a pelvic floor specialist just to like kind of see, I've never had an exam myself, like, like fully done out, you know, so it was just to kind of see how she worked and, and get that experience. And I learned a lot from her. She let me, you know, we, we kind of exchanged information and I got to work on her a little bit too. So, so I would say just like surrounding myself and reaching out to other people and allowing people to reach out to me.

I definitely, I try to check every DM and I try to get back to people as much as I can. Um, I've met up with students and I sit down with students and I talk with them about what they really want to get out of PT and where they want to head into. Um, so I'm always open. I'm trying to connect with as many people as I can. And the more that I'm able to do that, the more I'm able to learn myself. Mm-hmm. Um, a couple of questions on that then, or on the trainer actually with the P, uh, PRI. Um, does just the cuing change with the exercise, exercise integration or is there, what are the subtleties?

Um, I would say the, the way that he gets into the why behind why you would do these weird breathing PRI exercises and how that integrates into what you want to accomplish when you're on the court, when you're on, when you're on the field, like no matter where it may be. So the way that he gets people to buy in to like doing this, you're going to put your foot on the wall and you're going to breathe and reach, you know, it's like, it's, it's weird to some people and a lot of patients. I've heard of a lot of clinicians having issues integrating PRI into, um, a treatment plan because people don't want to do it.

But what I've found is that when you, I mean, it's, it's across the board, this isn't just for PRI, right? I say PRI because it gets a little weird in the exercises, but it's across the board for any kind of exercise treatment is when you can dive in and allow someone to feel what that's going to feel like in their body. Like I only do PRI when I know someone is going to actually feel the difference. So I have them do it. I have them stand up and I say, do you feel the difference? Like, do you understand why you would want to integrate this into your life? And like, and that goes across the board, right?

For any exercise, for any mobility technique, stand up and do, and now walk around. And do you feel that difference within your body, drawing people back to how they're actually going to connect it and why they would put it into their life and, and add it into their exercise regimen is key because that's the only way that you're going to get carry over and the only way you're going to get buy-in and the only way that someone's going to get better. So what I've, what I've learned from him, because I honestly, I've got to be honest, I haven't taken any PRI. I've only learned from him. Um, but I integrate it and I use it and it's been able to be integrated seamlessly into what I do and what I create for patients now based on getting everyone back to their why.

Have you, have you taken any DNS stuff yet? I haven't, again, I've been exposed to it from learning from other clinicians. Um, so I feel like I have a good baseline. I'm not sure that that's really where I want to move into. I think it's cool. Um, but I actually gravitate a little bit more toward PRI. I, I find that the comp, I mean, I haven't taken PRI either. I've taken just one DNS. Um, but I'm finding that like the more people that I've interviewed, the more clinicians I've interviewed, like from all different disciplines, like, and, uh, come froms and biases and so on. They just, there's, there's a lot of them that independently bring up breathing and being able to control that with movement.

So, um, and it sounds like you test like, Hey, how do you feel right now? Cool. Let's get down on the ground, do that one. And Hey, how's it feel now? Right. Yeah. So, I mean, I think, I think personally think they all converge into just the breathing aspect. I don't know the, the things later, but yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's true. Like breath is the most powerful thing. I had someone like this week, she was laying on the table and, um, we were just working on her breathing before we did anything else. And all of a sudden she's like, well, she was like crying. Tears were coming out. She was like, I don't know why I'm crying.

And I'm like, I do. You're finally like chilling out in your nervous system, you know? And just getting people back into that breath aspect is one of the biggest things that we can do for clients starting out. Yeah. There was, um, I had a, I had a kid one time that came in, like he'd come in on and off for like different things. And he comes in this time and he's really excited. He's about probably 28 years old or so. He's not very old. Um, so we had a shoulder problem this time. He's like, Hey, Sebastian, I got a shoulder problem. Let's figure it out. But guess what? It hurts when I breathe. I said, show me that.

And he's like, so, uh, so everyone can explain what you just did. Yeah. So I just basically shrugged my shoulders when I breathe. Um, and I said, cool. All right, let's, let's, let's correct that right now. Let's just see. Okay. So I put my hand on the shoulder and depressed it and held it. I said, don't move my hand. Can you take breath? Hey, it went away. So I just, uh, the, the, the apical breathing and, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was the magical hand, wasn't it? Right. Well, yeah. Then I got to take my hand and put, uh, take his hand and put it on my hand and make sure that he knew, you know, that he was part of the, part of the solution.

Um, but, but yeah, yeah, there's, um, I, I totally agree with the breathing part. Um, yeah, it's, it's key. It's like, it, it takes us back into our tapping into the nervous system in the first place because a lot of movements are going to draw into that anyway. So if we can get back to the baseline level of it, then we can start to tune in. I, you know, I just, I just interviewed someone who we were talking about the same thing and the commonality between all the parts and, uh, we're talking about breathing and, um, he, he brought up something about lymphatic and I'm like, I'm like, well, why do you think that?

And he's like, well, the, uh, and I don't, I don't know crap about lymphatic, but, but he's like, well, one of the trunks is down there and the pumping pressure of the, of the, um, within the abdominal cavity then helps the lymph return. And so he thought that was a part of the big part of the key as well as sympathetic versus parasympathetic. And totally my God, it's interesting. I never thought about that. Yeah. I like it. So when you, uh, you said that you talked to some of the young PTs, um, what is a common conversation that it seems like they're like, I want to know about this. And then you think, well, maybe you should learn about that or whatever.

Yeah. Um, you know, they're, they usually are saying, how can I get into private practice where I'm working for myself? How can I work independently? How can I, you know, how did you do what you did essentially? So basically this podcast we're going to, we're going to, yeah, exactly. Uh, so, so I just kind of talked to them about like where exactly that they want to move into and how they want to move into that. Like, what is the clientele that you're really looking at serving? Because I work with general population, right? It's anyone and, and mainly my meat of my people that I'm working with because I only work one day a week and I try not to take too many in that one day.

Um, I'm really working with people who have been in pain for like four or five years. I'm, it's a lot of chronic pain issues. It's a lot of people who like, I've tried everything and I'm not getting anywhere because it's a lot of times as well. It's, you're going to people who don't have the time to really tap into the slow, like let's slow down. Let's get back to the baseline. Let's get back to breathing. Let's get back to, you know, neurological rebalancing. Let's just like get back to the baseline. A lot of times you don't have time to do that when, so chronic pain, it ends up being worse and worse and worse.

So those are like my meat of people that I typically see. And I'm not trying to see him for very long. I see him for like four to five visits. And then maybe it's like a once a month after that, maybe it's like a goodbye after that. And I can push you off to another clinician or another, uh, physical therapist where you're getting more strengthening type, or I mean another, um, I trust some trainers, you know, in terms of doing corrective exercises and stuff. Um, so it just depends. But, but you know, so, so I'm telling people if you want to work with athletes, like that's a whole other experience.

If you want to work with, you know, it just depends. Like what is it that you see that you want to work with? If it's more of an active population, it might be in a clinic. It might be, you know, being able to, or, or maybe you're saying, okay, if I want to work with this one population, maybe it's runners. Maybe I'm going to show up at all the events that I know a lot of runners will be at. Maybe I'm going to go to a lot of the sponsors and say, do you need help with it from a physical therapist? So I'm, I'm telling them and just showing them that there's other tools and there's other resources out in the world that you can reach out to.

But it just takes like a little bit of thought process, you know, like where, where can I step into that? I can actually start to reach out. When I was working as a clinician, I reached out to a CrossFit and I said, Hey, do you guys have a physical therapist with you on staff? I'd love to like leave my cards and like come help you guys whenever you need it. And that's what I started to do on the side. So there's always resources. There's always ways around things. It doesn't have to be while I go and I interview for this, you know, job because that's what I'm told to do. Like it could be because you think that that's the place that you want to be at.

And a lot of, you know, clinics are moving into serving people on a, on a more intimate scale and a more cash practice type scale and, and really serving people, I think on a better level. So if that's the practice that you find great, and if you want to do your own thing, reach out, like you have to put yourself out there. You have to know that you're worth it. You have to know that you have value that you can get and start believing in yourself. Um, so it sounds like that they need a little bit of encouragement and direction of what to, of how to apply themselves. Yeah. And like actually gaining that confidence.

I think what I, what I see a lot, especially, I mean, I was the same way. I came out of PT school and I'm like, I need mentorship. I need to like continue to take all these courses. I need, I need more. You know, I, I didn't feel confident. I didn't feel confident to like go off and start my own thing. Um, what I've seen from chiropractors actually is a little bit of the opposite. I feel like they go out and they're like, okay, let me start my own thing. And I'm like, that's amazing. I know they, they, they, for you, they build that confidence in chiropractic school, whether, whether we know what we're doing or not.

Right. Exactly. I'm like, damn, that's good. Um, but I feel like for PTs, they don't always have that confidence. So I'm just trying to instill confidence in terms of people like you do have knowledge. You do have things to offer, like believe in yourself. I mean, personal trainers do it all the time. Right. And they're out hustling out getting, gaining clients and they might not know anything. I mean, I unfortunately see a lot on social media where people are, are marketing to, to Instagram influencers and saying that you can create an online business and they have no certification. They have no nothing behind them and they're out doing it.

It pains me and it boggles me a little bit, but, but you know, it's, it's out there. So the more that we can get clinician based people, chiropractors and PTs and people who actually have the, the knowledge behind them, the license behind them to go out and help and serve, like go out and do it. It could be done in so many different ways. And I think we're able to see that more and more now we're able to see, you know, you can write books, you can create social media platforms. You can, you can create courses that actually help and serve people. You can create products that help and serve people.

You can, there's so many different revenues to go down and it doesn't have to stop in a clinic. It can, it can be an outreach, go to your local 24 hour fitness and, and drop cards, talk to people, meet managers, meet, meet personal trainers. How can you build relationships? That's actually going to draw clients in towards you. How, you know, there's so that it just goes on and on and on. It's just about, it, it all stems from the internal confidence to go out and do whatever it takes. Mm-hmm. Damn, you got to talk to people? I don't want to do that. I should, I should, I know we're, we're starting to run into about 15 minute timeline that the stick guy on the side of the stage is saying, Hey, hurry up.

Um, but I, I wanted to like actually ask you about your, um, your programs as well. Um, I'm, I was, I was curious of what you were trying to solve by making them and we got two, you can start on whatever one you want to, um, what problem are you trying to solve? So for the mobility method, I'm really trying to get people back in tune. Um, I think we don't tune in enough. We don't listen to our bodies enough. We're just moving the day to day and the, in the hustle until pain happens until you get an injury. Right. And that's when you're like, Oh, maybe I should have been doing this, or maybe I should have been doing that.

And I, like it, um, I always say, you know, you're, you're not brushing your teeth and flossing after you get the root canal or after you get the cavity. You're brushing and flossing so that you can avoid having to go to the dentist and get any surgeries or do any of that. Why are we not tuning into our bodies the same way? So that's really like my root problem is what I got, want to get back to is getting people back into the, why they should be addressing and taking care of their own bodies. And so, and I feel like the baseline level where I can get people to start tuning in is through mobility.

We lose so much because we sit in chairs all day long. We sit at a desk, we sit in cars, we sit on toilets, we, we, and then we go, yeah, we should be quitting, sitting on squatty potties or, or like in my, when I went to Bali, you know, and just standing and squatting all the way down. That's really what we should be doing. But hover, but we lose it. We, we don't have that mobility. And then we go, when we lift hard and we squat low and we're like, Oh my God, I'm in aching and I'm in pain. Well, duh, you know, you didn't do anything on the baseline or on a daily day basis that actually brought you back into your body to open up those restrictions.

So I feel like being able to give people mobility and I have a breath section in there too, because you can't forget. I always tell people, start there, start there and then move into the mobility because your mobility won't change unless you can get back into your breath. Um, so that is really like, that's like my baby. I care about it so much because I believe in it a lot. I believe that when people get back to at least that baseline level, they can start to tune in and take care of their bodies on such a more beautiful level. And then, you know, when something happens, yes, go see a PT, go see a chiro, go see, uh, acupuncturist, whatever it may be that works for you and your body, but, and get facilitated.

But at least have a general idea of where you are in your body and start there. Wait, I got to change a habit. I don't want to do that. I know. It's rough. Um, well then, so with, from a business side of it, then how do you, how do you get someone, how do you get to create a funnel for that? Are you, are we allowed to talk about that? Yeah, we can talk about that. I can talk about anything. Okay. Um, and it's always, it depends who we're talking to now, you know? Yeah, yeah. Well, I, I never, I, someone can always listen over your shoulders. So, um, so the main driver for my program is always getting people back into their why.

And the way that I do that is through my challenges. So I host free challenges. I'm hosting one, um, right now when we're recording next week, but it'll be gone and done when you guys listen to this. Wait, how often is the challenge once a month? Um, no, it's probably like once every two to three months. Sometimes I mix up the challenges so I don't always do the same one. Okay. This one is different. So this one is like giving people an assessment and a mobility solution for that restriction and allowing them to kind of see where it's restricted within their own body. Is it like that backbend challenge, that wall, wall walking backbend challenge?

No, it won't be like that. Those are just fun to like, you know, they're fun. Um, but so I, I've been using the challenges to kind of tap people into their why, because I tell a lot of stories. I tell a lot of, um, things that in terms of like, look at this person who has cerebral palsy and yet he gets out of his wheelchair and he gets himself back into his wheelchair and he lives on his own and he moves on his own and he does, he moves within his full capability. What is your full capability that you're not moving into? You know, getting people back into like, oh yeah, I do have, I can raise my arm overhead and a lot of people can't do that.

Or I, I used to be able to put my toes in my mouth when I was a baby and I can't do that anymore. Not that we're trying to get back to that. Mobility challenge accepted. But you know, it's like, it's just getting you back in tune of like what your baby body is able and capable to actually do that you're not actually addressing or moving into. Why aren't you like, why aren't you taking appreciation back? Why aren't you getting back into the gratitude? So I, I dive into a lot of that within my challenges and it's really cool to see people get back into like, oh yeah, oh, that feels restricted. I had no idea.

Or like, oh my God, I had, I got out of pain in a week. You're like, okay, my little one to two mobility exercises did not get you out of pain. It was actually tuning in. Like it really is. So getting people back into the why of like why they would do this is like the driver of what's been awesome for my program. And also when I host challenges, I reach out to friends and I say, hey, would you mind like posting about this free challenge in your story? I give them a whole story graphic that they can use. I give them link and, um, I provide, and if they don't want to do that, no harm, whatever, that's fine.

I get a lot of people don't feel comfortable. It's a free thing. Um, and so I get a lot of my friends, I get friends, I got Dr. Jacob Harden, Vinny posted my freaking, um, program and his link in his bio. Oh, that's how much support I have from him. Um, and move you has posted for my challenges. So I, I'm like so fortunate to also have friends in the same space who will support me and I will support them back. Like it's all, there's room for all people. Like there is room for all. So support and give back and help. Um, so that has been the driver of my challenge, of my programs. Um, outside of that, I have not even set up a funnel yet.

I have funnels ready to go. So I do have free videos that I, that I have ready to go, but I haven't done anything with them yet. Well, cause I'm curious with, um, I thought the, like the hard fast rule with like, um, online programming and whatnot was you got to get an email. Yes. And I've built up my email list through my challenges. Oh, but you just didn't implement the funnel yet. No. Oh, got it. So, um, so I've actually, I, so my first launch was in November and since then I have an email list of 33,000. Oh, good. So that's, so actually it's interesting that you, I mean, you, you've been doing this for about five years on, or you had a hundred, you said you had a hundred thousand about five years ago, but then you weren't really, what were you doing with, uh, you're just kind of like entertaining on Instagram until you actually realized that you could do something with it.

So, um, it was just value, which is also why, like my first time I launched, it did incredible. Like I have Ryan DeBell, uh, he's the movement fix. He's one of my friends and he's been launching programs for, uh, years. Hello. Hey. Okay. I think we're good. Is that better? Yeah. Okay. Um. Sorry about that. Okay. So, um, sorry when we lost a connection here. So, uh, you were saying that, uh, Ryan DeBell has been making programs, you're good friends, you're pen pals. Yes. So he's been making programs for about like two, three years now. And he said he's never had a launch as powerful as my first one was.

And I think that really was because I was just, I've been providing that free content, that free value for years now. Right. So before that it was like three years of two, at least two years of educational content, I believe. Yeah. At least two, two and a half years of educational content before I launched. So you can imagine like all that free content. Um, and then I'm like, Hey guys, I have something to provide back to you. Plus I answer, I like, I had people who were like, Hey, you've answered every one of my DMS. I want to like get your program only because you've been so like, I appreciate it for how much you've given value.

So give value, give value, give value. You'll get it back, um, without having to even ask. Oh, nice. Um, where should we proceed from there? That, that glitch, that glitch has got me wrestled. Yeah. Sorry. Um, um, so I don't have any funnels set up right now and I've been fortunate enough to ride off of my social media. I don't think that everyone can do that. And, and I do think asking for support and asking for help outside of it is key and everything. Again, I'm friends with move you. I'm friends with Ryan. I'm friends with Jacob. I'm friends with Ryan. I'm, I already said Ryan. Um, Ryan was that important?

He is that important because he's already done this, this stuff. So the fact that I've had him to refer to and like to ask questions and he's open to help and, um, answer a lot of my questions we've never met in person, but we FaceTime pretty often, um, is like so appreciative to me. And that's what I want people to also realize. Like we do live in an abundant world and how you deliver something is going to be so different than how someone else delivers it. So realize that there's going to be an audience for both of you, you know, or all of us, you know? So like, just go out and help. And the more that you just want to help and you want to serve other people, like people are going to feel that, um, as soon as you have a disconnection with what you're selling and why you're selling it.

And if you're only doing it for money or you want to make passive income and that's your only goal and blah, blah, blah, it's the results are probably not going to show as much as they could. If you actually believed in it so wholeheartedly, like my launch is only done as well as it has because I truly wholeheartedly want this out in the world and believe in it so much. And I'm passionate. And I know that when people dive in and they do the work for themselves, I know that it's made a difference. So that is why it's been powerful and connecting. And I've actually had a launch where I was like, Hey guys, I have this product, but I also have this product.

And I kind of confused people. And within the first day I changed everything because I felt that disconnect. And as soon as you feel that disconnection, people are going to feel that as well. And you know, it won't, they won't, um, end up purchasing and the results won't be there. So connection is everything. Are we recording by the way? Oh, um, it's okay. You're a good point. Uh, I do have this though. Okay. So I see us, I see us moving, but, uh, yeah, I will, uh, you're a good point. No, sorry. That threw me off. I was like, Oh no. Oh no. Well, I think we'll be okay on that. Um, actually one, one time I was, uh, do you know Quinn Hennich, clinical athlete?

Yeah. So I was interviewing Quinn and then like about 15 minutes in, like he's talking, I'm like, and he's like, what? I'm like, I'm not recording. And I looked down there and, uh, this one, this one was off, but that one was on. And I'm like about gave myself a damn heart attack. So now I know myself better now. And I, I try to, I try to double down on that. Yeah. That's good. You got it both. Yeah. Um, good, good point on that though, what you said a second ago is that I, I really do think people can, they have their own way of saying things and there's enough people that need help that like we're not stepping on each other's toes.

So no, it's, we're all helping each other out and like, and I have so many friends that I'm helping out with as well that are stepping into the online marketing space and I'm so excited for them. Um, like I'm, I've been helping, um, the movement maestro, Shantae Colfield. I don't know. I saw you, I saw you guys do a, uh, a live last week. Yeah. I don't know her. She's awesome. She's, she was my mentor before she even knew she was my mentor. Um, so as a student, she was my mentor. Um, but I've really like respected and admired everything she's done and how she delivers information. Why is she the maestro?

Um, because she's, you know, she's a boss. The director. She makes you want to listen. She makes me want to listen. That's at least. Well, that was one of the longest times I've been on live listening to anything. Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. That was a lot of my story. I went back later and I was like, oh my God, did I tell too much of my story? People are going to want to hear that. Um, but it was really cool. Yeah. Well, I'm sure people want to hear the story. I actually listen to, uh, a lot of the, I usually when I interview someone, I listen to all the podcasts I can possibly find in them and I dig through their content.

So, I've already heard a lot of the stories and I'm not going to stop you. I appreciate it. I'm like, yeah, I've heard this one, Jenna. You need a new story. I need a new story. Yeah. It's, uh, I, I don't know. I, I, I kind of, I understand the whole, like, you know, like you got to get to know the person on the other side of the podcast, but it's, uh, after listening to about like three of them, I'm like, yeah, I can fast forward about the first 15 minutes and then I want to get to anything different that she talked about. Yeah. For sure. Tell me about your shoulder. Cause I, I still, I'm still interested in that damn shoulder and hand.

Let's figure this thing out. You know, it was actually cool. I was going to show a video the other day, but it didn't show up very well. Um, so when I just pull my shoulder blades back really far and, and like squeeze and kind of do, um, squeeze my hands up and down, I don't, people can't really understand. I squeeze my fists a lot. She's showing spirit fingers or she's boomeranging the number 10. With squeezing my shoulder blades down and back. Yeah. Um, and when I do that, you know, blood comes back into my left hand. No blood comes back into my right hand. Um, and then I do it and I shift over to my left side and kind of sit back into my left side.

Um, one of the exercises that I've been working on with PRI actually, and the blood comes back into my right hand. Oh, not fully, but like definitely more than before. How do you know it's blood? Um, well, definitely my hand gets red again. Oh, it loses color. Yes. It's not white anymore. I thought we were doing a prick test or something. No, no, no. Definitely not any of that. But, but, but, but you know, I, I, it cuts off from the nerve and the vascular, um, Okay. Depression. Yeah. So I guess I'll, I'll enlighten people that are listening. Uh, so me and Jen were at this, uh, course together and she was one of the case presentations for, we're looking to see if we can improve her, the neurological aspects of her arms.

It was that at all. Um, because it, what is it? I only do handstands on one side, or no, uh, side bridges on one side and when the arm goes up, then it goes numb. So it's, if I did, if I did a left side plank, but I placed my right arm in the air, it is going to go numb. After 10 seconds, wasn't it? Or something like that? Yeah, it's pretty quickly. Even if I do, this takes a little longer, but if I put my hands behind my head and I was doing like, um, like Pilates lifts or anything like that. Um, it would eventually go numb. Yeah. And, uh, so basically this, I was sitting in front of Jen and, uh, I kept thinking about this cause I like to troubleshoot things.

I'm like, well, what if we do this? Why don't we try that right now on the corner? Let's just try this. So we've been, uh, texting a little bit. I'm like, let's, let's look, let's look at that shoulder. Yeah. So I've done hanging and it hasn't made a difference. Oh, because of the skull yet. We're talking about scoliosis. Um, well, I don't know if that would make, so my, my suggestion on that wasn't because of the hand change, it was to see if the scoliosis would change, but that didn't change. I mean, I don't x-ray my spine every day, so. Maybe you got taller. Maybe. It doesn't feel like it. My boyfriend's six, four and five, two.

So it's a very much a height difference there. Three explains all throw pillows. Exactly. He needs a lot of support, you know? Yeah. Right. You're not a good small spoon anymore. So as we close up on things, is there anything that, um, well, actually for, how can everyone reach you? Your Instagram handle as well as website? Doc Genfit. I'm Doc Genfit everywhere. I've been saying, so I got to talk to you. Actually, I've been saying I'm going to get on YouTube for a really long time. Um, and I say this in every single one of my podcasts, cause I'm putting the intention out there, even though I haven't moved into it quite yet.

Um, but I would love to start creating content on YouTube as well. Um, so Doc Genfit, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram is where you'll see me the most. And I will interact with you. Facebook, I'm sorry. I probably won't get back to the messages. There's just too much happening. Um, and YouTube eventually is coming and website, docgenfit.com. The, uh, definitely my biggest YouTube suggestion for you is get a second camera and do it horizontal at the same time. Yes, I know. Definitely horizontal for YouTube and Facebook. It's different than Instagram. Yeah. Um, and is there anything that you think that we need to cover that we didn't?

I don't know. I think we covered a lot. But I think if anyone is, um, looking into online marketing and what that is and wants to learn a little bit more, because I have been helping a lot of friends, um, I am. Okay. So that's on, that's on Instagram, right? Go ahead. Do you, anyone interview? Sorry. Uh, cause I was going to forget. Yeah, no, you're fine. Um, I am creating a mini little mastermind just to start to introduce you to what online marketing is, how to optimize your social media, um, and bring in some of my friends who've been doing amazing at all the above. So nice. How do you, so how does, how, uh, I'm guessing that if they go onto your social media stuff, they'll see something about it.

Yes, yes, definitely stay posted, uh, follow me on social media. And if you want even more, I would go to my website and opt into my, uh, email list so that you don't miss it. Okay. The, I have one last question for you. Yeah. Are you tired of selfies and handstands yet? Uh, you know, never handstands. That's like, that's like my stress relief. I literally, I do it every single day. I will pop it in the middle of like anything. I'd be like, sorry, guys got to get upside down. Um, so never handstands, but selfies. I don't feel like I dig selfies. Well, I mean, no, you're right. They're more of self portraits.

Oh, I do selfie videos because I'm talking into the video. Um, I think technically if you're not holding the camera, then it's not a selfie. Okay. So I, I do selfie stories all the time cause I got to talk to people. Yeah, I guess you're right. You do, you live selfies. I do, I do live selfies all the time, but I've been bringing other people in and we got to bring you into, of, of live selfies. Yeah. Oh, doing lives. Okay. Yeah. We'll have to make it down there sometime. I have a good friend who lives in Santa Monica. So, uh, I'll just, I hate driving back and forth LA in one spurt. It's too much.

Yeah. For me, my brain. Well, Hey, the lives you can do split screen. Oh, can you? Yes. Where have you been? I've been on YouTube. That's where I've been. And I've been on podcasts. This is so much easier for me. Yeah, I get it. And, and so if you couldn't do a handstand because your wrist hurt, what would you do? You could do a forearm stand. Oh shit. Okay. I got to get in this handstand in the world too. I have a program for that too. Do you really? The perfect handstand? Yeah. It is actually. The, okay. Okay. I can't stop yet then. We got to continue down this route. So what is the biggest flaw of a handstand?

Unsafe handstand. Crossfit handstands. Am I allowed to say that? I'm going to offend a lot of people, but CrossFit handstands are the worst. Maybe the way they do, maybe the way they do handstands in CrossFit. Is that a little bit more PC? Yes. The way that they teach them is not beneficial for the body. I would say you're teaching someone exactly how to go into the low back by kicking into the wall because now all of a sudden the feet are reaching for the wall. So you're going to get that arch every single time. And it just, it's a little, not, not as bad doing so much external rotation and arms wide, but that could put a little, a lot of compression on the elbow.

Actually, when you have a little bit of wider hands and externally rotated, you could put a lot of pressure onto that elbow joint, which is why I like to just turn the hand to neutral and use more of the shoulder blade to get that elevation and that upward rotation. So really where I, a lot of people think handstands come from core work and my core strength is so strong, but it's really not that it's all scapular and shoulder strength. It really is. So do you believe then in a handstand position, you should ever do pushups or is it an isometric hold and that's all it is? No, I think you could definitely do pushups because that's still scapular and shoulder strength.

Okay. But I don't think you need to do pushups against a wall. So if you look at it, at a real gymnast or a calisthenic guy, even a yogi like my friend Dylan Werner, he's amazing. When you do handstand pushups, it goes from vertical to almost like planking because your head's going forward and your feet are going out behind you and then you press back up into a handstand. So technically, it should stay a straight line the entire time. Your line angle just moves. It's like a reverse front lever almost. So that's where your body should shift a little bit when you're going into a handstand pushup.

So it's just, you know, it's a leverage change so that you can balance out your stability and where your body is going. If your head's going forward, feet have to go back a little bit. It just becomes different in CrossFit because you're trying to stay in one straight line and you end up arching and thrusting and doing all these other things that I don't think are necessary in the body. Okay. I can jive with that. Yeah, I, I, it's, it's interesting. I usually, I mean, thinking of hand shoulder stuff, like I do work on closed chain stuff for the upper extremity, but obviously I don't really need, we don't need to load it a ton.

And then when people come in and talk about handstands and wall, like wall pushups, I'm like, yeah, uh, let's go with foot and ankle stuff and knee and hip. Like that's, that's better closed chain conversation for me than shoulder. So yeah, I think everyone should go and, uh, just look at your shit. Okay. So, um, yeah, thanks for being on. This was good. Yeah. Thanks for having me. That was a fun conversation. Okay. Thank you so much, Jen, for being on. That was amazing. Um, this is session number seven or 96. I think we're looking at right now. So we're going to July. This is, we're almost at a hundred episodes.

Wow. Um, if you have not looked back, this actually, the beginning of this year has had some amazing people in it. Uh, last week was, uh, Michael Ban. I learned a ton from Michael. Uh, Tom Machado was before that. Brian Carroll was 93. Michael Shacklock was 91. Uh, those are, those are ones that clinicians, clinicians would like. Um, even, even people like I learned a ton from Michael Shacklock's course. And I just went this last year and I'm 10 years out of school. So, uh, there's a lot of information that will just absolutely blow. And you can use in clinical practice for, for patients or some of the ones I'm dropping in that are solo podcasts.

Um, if you agree already kind of with the concepts that I'm throwing out there with these, the intention of those is actually so you can share them with your people. Um, I'm, I'm expecting it to help you guys in regards to having those conversations that you would, you would normally have about, let's just say, um, foot and ankles or actually one of the one come out recently. We did a, um, radiculopathy neck related conditions that create elbow and hand related conditions. Cause sometimes it's hard for them to understand, which is, which is totally fine. But at the same time, it's our responsibility to explain it to them or at least give them the resource that will help them understand why they're going through what, why they're going through what they're going through, what type of care is needed and so on.

So search through those solo ones. Um, and, uh, those are intended to help you guys. So please help me help you share them with your patients. And, um, we have a catered list to that, uh, as well. Um, if you're looking for the show notes still, go look for, uh, doc, Jen fit to search on the search function, or you can search her whole name, uh, Jen S scare, which has a Q. Lo and behold. Um, thank you guys for listening and be good to each other and leave people. better than how you found them. Talk to you later.