Gut issues and back pain: a long, methodical recovery story

This is session number 30 of the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast. That's Dirty 30. Welcome to the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast, where you can learn about sports injury theory, rehab, diagnosis, and how to understand the doctor lingo you didn't understand at your appointment. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey, everyone. How's it going? It's Dr. Sebastian again with the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast. And today, I have a guest. Actually, he was a patient of mine. He's not currently under my care, but I thought that he would be a good person to have on the podcast because he had a few things that, I mean, they were complicated.

They were pretty complicated. He had a lot of gut issues or like intestinal stomach issues that he was dealing with as well as back pain. And the reason why I thought I'd bring him on, and this is James, by the way, he had a really good positive mental attitude throughout the whole thing. And also, too, just the kind of logical game plan that he had when he was going through not only the gut thing, but the back thing as well. I remember when he first came in, he had pretty much dedicated, he was dedicating like three to four months to deal with the back. And then, he ended up dealing a couple months with the gut, and he came back to it again and so on.

But I think everyone could learn a little bit from James' plan of attack and attitude with it because it really does go a long way. So, I'll just turn this over to him, and he is letting me even share some MRI results and everything like that, too. So, we're going to go through that a little later. So, James, why don't you tell us about yourself and what's going on with your gutting back? Sure, yeah. So, I actually came to see you about a year ago, I think it was now, that I first met you. I've been dealing with back issues since I was pretty young. It's really started to bother me in the past few years where it really became an issue.

So, how old are you, actually? I know that we didn't... I just turned 31. Are you really? Yeah. Oh, I thought I was younger than you. I didn't think that you were. Okay, okay. I see where this is going. Also, too, I know that I'm painting a picture of you. So, how tall are you? How much do you weigh? I am 6'1". I am 160 pounds. Before my stomach issues started, I weighed about 188, about 190 maybe on a good day. And then when my stomach issues were really bothering me, I dropped down to about 151. So, I went down almost 40 pounds. Cool. All right. Yeah, I know that. So, we'll definitely talk. I wrote some extra questions I want to ask you as well.

It was about how you want to keep weight on, too. It's an ongoing process, I'll tell you. It's a struggle. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to paint the picture. But, yeah. Tell us all about your journey. Well, I'll start with my stomach, actually. So, when I was about 24 years old, I started getting sick pretty often. And I started having issues with my gut. And I actually took a drug in high school called Accutane. That's a prescribed drug, not an illegal drug. We talked about this. Yeah. It's actually, it's a pill for acne. And when I was in high school, I had bad acne.

And I took Accutane. And then I started having all these gut issues happen when I was 24. At the same time, I started seeing a lot of commercials that were saying, if you have taken Accutane, and you're having these issues, which I was having, you need to see a doctor. Do you know all those commercials they say? It's a lawsuit commercial, basically. It was, of like the list, I'm sure they gave like 20 things. Yes, exactly, exactly. So, I started getting really worried because when I was younger, I was a bit naive. And I had this mindset that, well, I'm young and I'm healthy and I don't need health insurance.

And when my gut issues started to happen, I learned really quickly that I do need health insurance. So, the first test that we did was a colonoscopy to rule out cancer. That was the first thing. So, a colonoscopy is? A colonoscopy is where they put a device, I did an endoscopy too, actually. That's where I put a device down your throat to take a look into your intestine and see if there's any protrusions or cancer or anything of that sort. Colonoscopy is where they go through the other end and they make sure, basically, there's no issues going on there. And that's the nicest way I can put it. I don't know if I told you, I actually had a couple of those too, actually.

Really? Yeah, yeah. Well, they're not the most fun thing ever. I remember waking up and like, this is probably the root of like some of my stomach issues, but I remember waking up from the first one and just being in a daze. I don't remember how I got dressed, but I remember just dominating two Carl's Jr. or those Western bacon cheeseburgers. Oh, you're exhausted after you do it because you've been fasting for, I don't know, 24 hours or whatever it is. So, yeah, those, I'm not looking forward to that ever again, but I know I'll have to. But that's how it started. I had to do the colonoscopy and that was when I was 24.

And I've been on a journey pretty much since 24 trying to figure out what's going on with my stomach. I, for my stomach issues, I've seen now, I'm on my 14th doctor. Um, dang. Yeah. A lot of doctors for that. Um, a lot of that too has been education on my part because I realized pretty quickly when I was seeing these doctors that if I really wanted to get to the root cause of this, I couldn't rely on other people to just give me the answers. So I went through, I've read a lot of books and tried to educate myself as much as I can on how do I heal my, my gut issues. So, um, all the doctors, there's been some better ones.

There's been some ones I haven't cared for as much, but I always try to go in with an open mind. I feel like I can learn something from everybody, but, um, I'm not a huge fan of, um, traditional medicine and that they just try to treat the symptoms. I, I, I don't, I tried naturopathic, but, um, I'm much more into trying to, uh, treat the cause. So I'm seeing a doctor in LA right now and he practices functional medicine and that's how, that's just the way they approach it. Wait, how many doctors do you have to get through before you decided to go like the, the functional medicine route? Um, it was after I did a phone consultation with a woman named Sherry Rogers and she, she's an expert in this subject, uh, of gut related issues.

And it was after my call with her that I wanted to see a doctor, uh, like this, but I've, I've seen some naturopaths that weren't able to help me. I've seen traditional doctors, the issue with just a regular traditional doctor in that sense, or my issue has been that they'll give me pills that will treat same acid reflux. But I want to know why do I have acid reflux? Why at 24 did I get hit with all these health issues that I never had before? Like, what was the cause of that? So that's what I've been trying to, to get to the bottom too. Well, I know we were talking earlier before the podcast about, uh, diagnosis and symptoms and so on.

Like, so yeah, acid reflux obviously being a, I guess, I mean, it's a diagnosis, but also it's a, it's a, I believe it's a symptom. It's kind of like, so, so what other symptoms were they treating and were they all with different medications? There were a lot. Yeah. So my, what I had going on during that time, um, there were times where it was, where it was really bad. And this is actually something that I actually pretty much only told my girlfriend, but there was a time there where I struggled with depression and I never, ever thought before that that could ever in a million years be an issue for me.

But when I literally felt sick every single day, um, that, that was a low point for me where I would, I'd wake up in the morning, I'd eat breakfast, I'd have a bowel movement. I'd be completely exhausted after like, go back to sleep. Just so tired, get up, go to work, go to work, come home. And that was my cycle for, I don't know how long, to be honest with you. And you're eating through the day. Were you eating through the day? I would eat through the day. Yeah, I would. But I, and that's where I was losing weight too, was I'd have a, like a bowel movement and it would just be exhausting. I was just dropping weight and dropping weight.

And I learned pretty, it's kind of funny that if, if you're someone who, uh, has gained a lot of weight, people won't say, Hey, you don't look so good. You've gained a lot of weight. But if you lose a lot of weight, people will tell you, Hey, you don't look good. You've lost a lot of weight. And that, that kind of got to me because I was hearing it from everyone like, Whoa, you need to gain weight. You're not looking too good. And that, that, uh, weared down on me for, for a little bit there. So, and you were down to, you said like one 50, then one 50. I got down to one 51. Yeah. So being six, one one 51.

I mean, that's, that's pretty skinny, to be honest with you, especially when people knew me, I wasn't by any means like a gym rat before, but I would work out. I lived a, a pretty active lifestyle. So to drop all that weight so quickly. Um, it came as a shock to not just myself, but other people too, that were really concerned. So how does it go with like, um, and so you don't live with your girlfriend right now? No, we don't. But then you cook separate meals and cause I know you have a restricted diet and everything. I do. Yeah. So through my testing, I found out that I'm allergic to, uh, it's 14 or 17 things that won't come to me now.

The main ones though are wheat and dairy. Those are the ones though. If those go in my diet, I will know it for sure. I mean, my stomach does not like that one bit. Um, but there's other things on there, like smaller, like garlic and things like that, or cranberry that I found if I have that in moderation, I don't seem to have an issue with it all. But there, there's a few there that really will upset my stomach. And I just, it's so not worth it for me because if my stomach becomes upset, it's strained and I know I'm going to lose more weight. And that's, that is the last thing I want to do at this point.

So they call this, uh, is it food sensitivities are calling it, right? Yeah. So it's a lot easier, um, to call it a food allergy. The tests I took, their food allergy tests. I like to be all, yeah, you get the whole binder here. Everyone can't see it, but you have an entire binder of. Oh, no, no, no, no. This is my back binder. My stomach binder is three times that size. I kid you not. I left that one at home. Well, I like the organization though. And so I really think is, is the, a good take on for everybody is the organization that you have. Because I'm sure you show up to a doctor with like, I mean, you have this, it's just five, five pages of just your, just your gut stuff.

It's easier just to give it to them than to try to explain it. Yeah. I did a write up on it a while back because as I was trying to explain it to different doctors, it, it was a lot and seeing different, going to different people over and over. Now, mind you, I didn't see one doctor then bounce sooner than bounce to another. This is over about six years. So I would stick with a doctor for a while and I've tried to approach doctors in the most respectful way and let them know ahead of time. Hey, if you can't help me, that's okay. But please let me know ahead of time. Like if this isn't working, if you're not seeing progress, if you don't mind telling me, because I don't want to waste their time and I don't want them to waste mine either.

So is there certain questions you would ask them where you could tell like, Hmm, this person's not going to be at least. Yeah. Um, do you have a sheet for that too? Like an interview? No, you know, for my back, not, I'm not as good with my back, uh, issues, but for my stomach, as I started reading all these books and learning more, I found that, uh, I knew, Hmm, I could be wrong, but I felt like I knew more than a lot of doctors about these specific things going on with me. So if I asked them very detailed questions, like I saw one doctor and I told her what I had going on and she gave me a real basic, uh, kind of cookie cutter sheet on acid reflux.

Um, and it was one of those where I knew that it wouldn't be a good fit because after I'd explained it, it just, it wasn't, I don't think she got the depth of what I was, uh, dealing with. So, well, you mentioned the books a couple of times. So which are the books that you've gotten the most from? Oh, the most from, um, you're going to pull it out of your phone, aren't you? Yeah, I mean, I can tell you what I've read. Um, I've read clean gut. You are what you eat. Colon health. No more heartburn by Sherry Rogers. That was a really good one. Digestive wellness was very good. Sherry Rogers was the one that you consulted.

Consultation. Yeah. Um, healthy digestion, the natural way. That was good. Detoxifier dye. That's another Sherry Rogers. I did wellness against all odds, natural stomach care. Um, I did a book on Candida also, cause they thought it might be Candida. I did a leaky gut syndrome and then I did a book called Inside Tract and Magnesium Miracle and why stomach acid is good for you. And I've actually reread a few of those books. Are you, are you looking at all the titles on it right now? Or do you have like a whole list written out just in case anyone asked you? Oh no, no, no, I, because I knew I was going to talk to you today and I knew you were going to ask me, I was, I went and I took a picture of my, my bookshelf just for you.

Oh, are you looking at a picture of your bookshelf right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But of those, the ones that Sherry Rogers wrote, I like those a lot. The, the doctor that I'm seeing now that I think has made, uh, the most impact for me, his name is Dr. Farshid Rabar. He's up in LA in Beverly Hills. Um, he's the one that I said practices the functional medicine. He, when I approached him, he started testing me on things that I had read about and no one else was testing me on. So he did one called an IBS check. He did a SIBO test, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. He did a second endoscopy on me.

He did a stool sample test and then he did a Heidelberg capsule test, which actually measures your stomach and sees if you produce too much stomach acid or too little. And he's one of, I think, two doctors in Southern California that does that. Did you do that one this year? I thought, I thought we talked about that. I did that one fairly recently. Yeah. And he's the one that tested me for heavy metals too. No one else had done that. And it turns out that I have way too much mercury in my system. And that's been, that's been a big one for me as far as figuring out what's going on. So we know that I have GERD, gastroesophageal reflux disease.

We know that I have leaky gut, which is intestinal permeability. And we know that I have a heavy metal poisoning or toxicity. So I did a test with him and then I saw another doctor down in Newport and they did more tests for me for heavy metals. And we found that my mercury was through the roof. Mercury and lead were both really high. So how do you get them, how do they end up being high? You know, a lot of people have asked me that when they found out. All I can really chalk it up to is the fact that I was born and raised in Hawaii and I grew up eating a lot of fish and ahi's very high in mercury content.

And there was a while there when I was working out a lot and I was trying to gain weight. I would eat like a couple, a few cans of tuna every single day. And my mom warned me. She told me, don't do that. It's high in mercury. And you know, when you're younger, you think you know better, but mom knew best. I remember it was a couple of weeks ago. You told me that you could speak pigeon. Yes. So how would your mom actually tell you to stop eating a lot tuna? Oh, no, no. My mom actually, a pigeon was forbidden in my household. My mom was an English major and she couldn't stand when kids spoke pigeon.

So we were forbidden to do it. Wait, was it cool to speak pigeon? Like, like if you could do it well, it's like. It's not necessarily cool. It's just what everybody speaks out there. Like everybody will talk pigeon. The one interesting thing though, is if girls talk pigeon, it's not super attractive. Oh, really? It's like a masculine. It's kind of like a harsh dialect to hear. So yeah, it's not, it's not the best one, but moral of the story is I should have listened and they warned me too. They told me not to take the Accutane. Both my parents were like, don't do it. Don't take that. But I was so dead set on not having acne as a child.

But to this day, I've spoken to doctors and they don't think that's why I have the gut issues that I do. I don't know if it is or not. But what drives me crazy is that Accutane is still available today and kids can still take it today. Well, I wonder if, I wonder if they cleared up anything with it. Because I remember that, like, I think I told you, my sister actually has, she took Accutane and she had some issues after. So she has lupus. Oh, yeah. And the, so I think it was, I mean, I, I mean, I was in high school at the time. She's a little older than me. So I don't, I don't recall all the specifics of, you know, all the different conditions they were claiming that it could possibly do or like a trigger or whatever it was.

But I wonder if like there was so much backlash back then that maybe they changed some type of ingredient formula. Yeah, they could have changed it. I don't see those commercials. Oh, actually on TV. So is there still commercials? I don't have TV there. Best decision. I'm so happy I got rid of it. Yeah. You listen to podcasts though. Have you heard of cereal? Have you listened to cereal yet? That's what got me into podcasts. Cereal? Yes. That, that was the very first one I listened to. And after that, I got hooked on podcasts. I, I start, I was finishing the first season today and. Oh. Well, but she doesn't come to a conclusion.

Like it's, it, I'm looking at the dates where she did it and it looks like 2016. She's like, oh, I'll come back to it. Well, that's a spoiler alert for everybody listening right now. Oh, oops. Well, I don't think it's, no, it's, it's the story of how you get there. Yeah. It's fascinating. It really is. But you, but you can tell, I think with like, when you look in the second season, she's kind of going through another story, but then she's recapping that one. Right, right, right. But anyways, yeah, you're right. No, it's okay. Still worth listening to for sure. Yeah. It was an interesting story either way.

Okay. So what, I know that you've told me a couple of times, like, what do you, like what you eat and whatnot. And what, tell me like what your typical breakfast is and like lunch. And I just want everyone to get an idea of like the, the amount of restrictions that you're kind of on because you want to feel good. Uh, every, it's pretty, it doesn't change too much. As far as every morning is a protein shake. It's two scoops of a brown rice protein, one scoop of orgain, and I'll do some spirulina inside there too. Lunch. I've been trying to do some type of protein. It's always a protein and rice and veggie if I can.

And dinner is typically the same thing. So, um, my girlfriend's been teaching me how to cook. So that's, it's been a slow process because of me, but it's been going really well. And then my last meal of the day, and it's usually before I can, a couple hours before bedtime, I try to load up as much as I can. So I'll do about five scoops of protein. I'll do one can of coconut milk and that is the densest, fattest, heaviest, calorie rich coconut milk I can get. Uh, I'll do that. I'll do some other milk. I'll do a little bit of fruit. I'll do some glutamine powder, immunoglobulin that my doctor wants me to take.

And I'll try to get a thousand calories out of that guy. Um, you know, people always tell me like when I was at Trader Joe's buying this coconut milk. That's what I was just thinking about that story. So I was, and this guy comes up, two people come up to me and they see me buying all this coconut milk and they're like, Oh, what is that for? I'm like, well, I'm trying to gain weight. And I've heard this from so many people. Oh, I wish I had that problem. And I get it. I know where they're coming from, but I'm like, no, you don't wish you had this problem. Trust me, but it's tough. I really try to, uh, put pounds on and it doesn't, it doesn't come easily for me by any means.

And I know some people here that are like, Oh yeah, what a problem. But it's, it's challenging when I'm trying, when I'm really trying to gain and maybe one day that will change. But, um, as of now or for a while now, it's been really tough to gain weight. Well, and for like the amount of exercise that you're, I mean, you're not doing a ton like you're, um, I actually just, I went to Seattle's last weekend and, uh, I was thinking about your weight and, and height and everything. And I, I stayed with a couple, my friend or one friend where he was there with a group of his track athletes and all of them were like six, one, six, two, six, three, they were tall.

And like, where are they? Like, they're so thin. And I was like, so how much do you guys weigh? And like, one guy's like, well, 155, you know, like 145, like they were all super like lean and like no body fat and whatnot. But like, I'm like 165 and I'm like five, seven. So I was like, holy shit. Like I, I weigh more than all of you, you know, but, but also to the amount of like exercise they do, they can run up to like, I think I've heard of some people doing a hundred miles a week. So their expenditure is higher than yours. So yeah, it's like, you're not absorbing it. And that could be part of the problem too.

Maybe as I'm trying to put these calories on, I have a, a, a malabsorption issue that's preventing me from gaining weight. I don't know what it is. My challenge with it though, is, you know, everybody says, eat more food, eat more food. But if I eat too much food, my acid reflux just totally gets me. And when that happens, I lose my appetite. I can't eat more. I don't want to eat more. My stomach is upset. Um, so it's, it's kind of, it's a cycle that seems to permeate where it's a fine balance of trying to eat enough food and not eat too much food so that I upset my acid reflux. And I have that issue going on too.

So that's where I'm trying to balance that while at the same time, slowly and steadily put on a little bit of weight. I'm happy to say that, like, I think I said in the beginning of the podcast, I weigh about 160 now. So I'm up from where I was before my goal, uh, for this year, one of my goals is to weigh 165 by summer and 170, uh, by the end of the year. That, that beach body. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, honestly, any weight that I can take, I mean, if I can put it on, I'll happily take it so, um, you, you put me through workouts too and it's, it's not for lack of trying. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, he's, yeah, you definitely work hard and I mean, I can recall a bunch of times where you're, you know, pushing so much weight, uh, that you're just shaking, you know, I wish I could imitate it right now and everyone can see it.

I'm so glad you can't. It's, it's like, uh, it's like an, yeah, like an anxious quiver. I'm cold covering me with something warm type of thing, but yeah, you're, you're, you're pushing hard. Um, and, and I actually have a, I have a friend who's, who's really trying to gain weight as well, like gain muscle from lifting. And like, he sends me all these articles and one of them was just, uh, he was on work until failure and you pretty much did that like every time. Yeah, yeah, no, I think you, I think you described it better than I ever could have, but they were good workouts. And actually when I was working out with you, I was gaining weight, you know?

So, well, I almost wonder too, like part of like your, like your back stuff, um, the, I know there's a bunch of stuff that we can theorize that it is and was, but just some of the stuff, like just having the proper amount of, uh, I don't want to say muscular size, but functionality of it and making it so it doesn't degrade away because of say malnourished, uh, or you're, you're not like giving them what they need to, to stay the right size and strength and functionality is a, is a, is a possibility of the small deep, uh, stabilizer group we call it at the back. Um, but, uh, tell me about your back then and then, uh, we'll go a little bit into your MRIs just to give everyone a little idea without getting too technical.

And then we'll just, um, see if we can tie them all together. Yeah. So my, ironically, my back issues, I had back issues when I was younger, like I said, but they didn't really start getting me until I stopped working out. So when my stomach issues were going on, I kind of became a slug. I felt sick all the time, I stopped working out, stopped going to the gym, really became a shell of myself. And it was when I lost all the weight, uh, that my back issues really started to come through. I mean, that, that's when it really started to hit me and it wasn't a quick flip of the switch. Bam. I have these problems now with my back.

It was slowly over time, it seemed to progress. So that's part of the reason why I want to gain weight and gain muscle and get, uh, stronger again, because I think it's going to help with my back. So for that, I've been diagnosed with, uh, sciatica and mild disc degenerative disease. Um, I've done a MRI, I've done physical therapy. I've done a couple epidural injections, uh, for the sciatica. They actually wanted to do a third one for me. And I said, no, I don't want to do a third. Um, and then I've done deep massage, more physical therapy, acupuncture. Uh, I saw a chiropractor and after all that is when I came to see you, I think I saw some of your videos online.

Um, and that's how I found out about your practice. And if I'm not mistaken, I think I approached you with the same thing. Hey, like if you can help me, that'd be great. But if not, you know, no hard feelings type thing. Um, and I felt that when we were working together, I was making a lot of progress on my back. Now it didn't come without a cost. My, my back, it was waking me up every night and it, to this day, it typically will wake me up every single night. And it's not for lack of a, of a good bed. I, I bought a, an expensive, very good sleep number bed, but I typically will have back pain most every night that will wake me up.

That's, it seems to be getting a little bit better. Um, when I was really pushing my back, I think it was bugging me a little bit more, but I, I could be wrong, but I believe that I really need a strength in my back and I can, I can push through that. Well, I know that, um, with your case, it was, uh, not to say it was extremely different than everybody else's, but like for most of the time, like we kind of start from like a, like we do the assessment and everything, and then we see what the gaps are. And then, uh, to fix those gaps, we end up applying, at least from the exercise or rehab standpoint, you want to apply a couple of challenges.

Um, an example would be, let's just, I'll just make something up. We do, uh, a plank, a squat and a pull-up. Not to say I would recommend any of these for you right now, but let's just say we have those three. If you come back the next day or like a couple of days later and you're like, oh, I, this is the worst back pain I've had in years. It was that rehab right there, you know, like, right. We don't know which one it was, you know, like, so just thinking of it from like a, from an experimental standpoint, it's, it's nice to give lower amount of exercise first or like stuff that's very safe. And then as we push into challenges, um, I think like, sorry, the first day we did a hip thrusters heavy, then we probably kept everything else pretty much equal.

So a lot of the times I know that, well, it's funny that I'm telling you, but you were there. Um, but we kept it, we kept everything really, um, with changing one variable at a time. And if you end up having a flare up, then we would target the one thing that possibly was, and then we'll either decrease the load on that one or we'll change it out. You know what I mean? Yeah. That was a big component of it. And that was something that you stressed. And I was happy about was we always controlled our variables. So if we did something one day and we added to it, we were very careful to figure out what was that thing.

And we found things, we found things that after we did them, I was like, Hey, that really bugged my back. And we create a routine around the things that didn't bother my back and how we could, how we could strengthen around that. So that was really helpful. And I remember that we had talked before about, uh, I think I'd asked you, which you couldn't tell what made it worse on everything. So usually I'll ask people like, you know, is it, there's certain types of activities bother it? Does bending forward hurt more than, hurt more than bending backwards or vice versa? And correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't, you couldn't pinpoint much, right?

No, it seemed that a lot of things could provide me with back pain. Um, things that I wouldn't think would, and then other things would. And I never, I mean, heavy, if I'm leaning over and picking up, um, heavy things that of course is going to, it's going to bug my back without a doubt. But just like the simple day-to-day stuff, it was a bit hard for me to pinpoint what exactly would do it. And as we went through, uh, MRIs too, like I got a couple of your MRIs right here. There's one, they're about years, one year apart. Um, it really wasn't to change. And actually there was, uh, there were small disc protrusions, not that big, uh, but it looked like one had decreased in size.

Um, but there was also a lot of, uh, I know we spoke about this before the podcast. There was some stenosis or mild stenosis, um, as well as, uh, some other types of bony changes, or like you said, D, uh, you say disc degeneration. Um, what is your understanding of what disc degeneration is? Did, uh, cause I'm sure you got that one before you came to me. I think, I don't think we ever said degeneration. No, that, that was, uh, what one of my doctors told me after they looked at my, uh, at my MRI. Um, as far as what it is, um, they explained it to me because I think it's like level one or phase one.

It's just mild dis-degeneration, meaning that my disc has some regular wear and tear. Um, but if I, if I'm understanding it correctly, if I keep, keep it up, it can, it can get worse and worse and worse, of course, um, which can lead to more and more back issues. So that, I guess, I guess that's a pretty poor way to explain it, but I mean. Well, that, that's why, that's why I asked you is the, the, it's cause I think everyone's going to, everyone's, if someone's had a back injury and they're listening to this podcast, they've probably heard the same, like they have, it's probably the same general understanding that you do too.

Um, I know that I, I, I always have an issue at least explaining to people, like I can't unlearn what I already know. Right, right. So the terminology I know is a little bit, it's harder to scale it down. I don't want to say dumb it down, but it's hard to make it different than it is. Is it the, not the gel, but what's between the discs? Is that when it is dis-degeneration, when that starts to wear down, so your discs start to rub against each other a little bit? The nucleus? Yeah. Well, the, the, the, the degeneration, they say, it's really just like a process of, uh, of, uh, just think arthritis.

Yeah. It's basically that with a couple of different components, but for the most part, it just shows kind of where over time it's not like, say, imagine like a, you got hit by a truck and then you had a disc injury or like say all of a sudden you had leg pain and you look and you saw the huge disc injury, like that would be more of traumatic and a quick thing, which like you might, you might not see any degeneration along the, uh, x-ray or MRI with a case like that. But with yours, it's like a slow degrade type of thing. It's, I mean, yeah, it'll, it'll probably get worse, but at the most part, for the most part, um, I don't have my MRI here, but I'm pretty sure I had it too.

And like my MRI, I don't think I've ever showed you mine, have I? No, I've never seen it. Oh, I brought it here to the office just cause I, and I was reading actually the, the history cause, uh, I didn't, I didn't know what we were doing at the time. And actually did a podcast, I think it was number 17 or 18 that has me reading my own MRI and just telling the story of how, how bad it hurt then. But like, anyway, so the, the, these findings that you have, they're, they're not different than what, I mean, they're a little early for what you, what your age is at 31. But I mean, you know, people that are like 40 that don't have back pain and 50, so you might have the same, they probably have the same type of thing.

But anyways, the, the, the degrade is, um, you want to be able to move well. And if you don't move well, you'll load structures that will eventually start to wear quicker is basically the idea. And I think that's, there's a couple of different theories of how arthritis is starting. Uh, I know there's a nutritional one. I don't know if you've heard of that theory or not. I have, I've heard of it, but I couldn't tell you much about it. Well, remember when we were talking about too, with the, uh, so you got inflammatory arthritis testing, right? Yes. And those were all negative, right? Correct. But the, like, in case everyone wants to know, so like back pain or like pain and joints sometimes are correlated to, um, like GI stuff, like what he's talking about.

Um, Crohn's disease, I think is one that has the same marker as some of the other inflammatory arthritis, uh, ulcerative colitis. I don't know if you've been, you, they didn't, you didn't have any of that stuff. Yeah. Those are both inflammatory bowel disease. I don't have either one of those, thankfully, but if you let, uh, intestinal, intestinal permeability go on for too long with that inflammation, it can lead to those. So that's always. Oh, really? Yeah. That's something to think about. Well, so yeah, I don't know. I just see with your, with your MRI and like all your back stuff, like it's, I, I know it's, it's really, it was a really, really, yours was actually a really hard case.

Um, funny actually, I saw a guy last night who was another hard case just randomly, like I ran into him and it's, it's kind of funny just recapping after the fact. It's like, uh, during which time, I mean, I, I think I told you straight out, I'm like, you're a complicated case. Yeah. But at the same time, we want to make sure that we don't say like, Hey, there's like a 30% chance that's ever working because then it would be a mental thing too. But I mean, I, I think that your case was definitely, it can improve since all your, all your MRIs are pretty normal, you know? So I think it really comes down to how you move or if there's a gut related or an inflammatory related condition.

And that was my understanding of the whole thing anyways. Actually, all of my stool sample tests have come back showing inflammation. Uh-huh. All of them. Is that like a C, what's the, uh, the marker for that? Uh, I don't remember it off the top of my head. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, they, they've all, they've all come back showing that. So. Well, I wonder what happened if you, well, I mean, I guess you're already on the track of cleaning up all the gut stuff. Yeah. It's, I'll tell you what, removing, I've done, uh, mercury heavy, the heavy metals, I've done chelation for that. And that has been a huge improvement in my health.

I mean, like really night and day. Have you gone the route of, uh, I know some people remove fillings. I did that, uh, two weeks ago. I got my last filling removed. Did you really? Yeah. Well, because if you're going to be doing heavy metal, uh, chelation for mercury, you want to have your fillings removed first. It's just for best practices because it can actually extract that from your saliva and it's going to pull more and it's going to deposit it throughout your body. If you still have the mercury fillings in, huh? So I just got mine removed and I actually did my first rounds of chelation with my fillings.

Um, I wish I hadn't, but either way, now I'm going to go back on more chelation therapy to keep removing it. Can you, uh, can you explain chelation therapy? Yeah. So there's, uh, there's some, it's pills is what it is. And there's one you can do through an IV also. When they do the IV test, I didn't learn this till after, but I read in a book after that it's not prudent to do that because when they hook you up to the IV and, uh, it's, it's pulling this mercury, it's moving it throughout your body and it can cause long-term damage. So ironically, I was doing the test myself and I had the IV in my left arm and it just started to hurt.

I mean, really, really hurt. And I told the nurse, I was like, Hey, this is getting kind of tough for me. So they switched it over to my right arm. And then, you know, a couple minutes in just really, really started to hurt. So then they went back to the left arm again. They're like, we've never had this happen before. So they're doing it and it got to the point where like, I thought I was going to throw up. I just like felt like I was getting beat up and I told them that I can't finish this. I can't get through it. And then I read in the book after you're never supposed to do that because it overloads the burden with the body with mercury when it's trying to test.

Because what you do after that is you have to pee into the cylinder and then you send that in the test on that. And when I did it, I came home and I was so thrown off from what had just gone on that I actually, I urinated inside the toilet. So I missed, I didn't even go inside the cylinder I was supposed to. I didn't finish the IV because it was too intense. So I came in over 10 times the amount that I'm allotted for mercury. And my doctor was like, Oh, you're definitely higher because I didn't even finish the IV. Oh, geez. Yeah. So that, uh, but when I started doing chelation therapy, that's, uh, through taking pills, it's called DMSA or DMPS.

And there's also alpha lipoic acid. I've done two rounds of DMSA. And I mean, after I finished those, like I was feeling way better, just a lot better overall. And I know, cause I did my last mercury test that I still have a good amount in me. So I'm going to, I'm going to start working to get rid of that. It's funny, like, listen to like the, like the types of things that you're trying and doing, um, I imagine that like nine out of 10 people on earth are not even, this is not even on the radar at all. Um, no, I don't think so. So at what point did you decide to like go over to the dark side and just like realize that, okay, everyone's going to think I'm a little crazy here with all this types of, I'm buying cart fulls of coconut milk and, you know, um, my favorite quote now is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And Benjamin Franklin said that. And I love that because before I didn't live the healthiest lifestyle and that I ate whatever I want. I ate a lot of fast food. I mean, I just didn't take great care of my body. And now it's really shifted my perspective that maybe it's a blessing that I had all these health issues happen now because I eat pretty clean. I eat pretty healthy and had all this stuff not happened, I'd still be eating pretty poorly. So, I mean, whatever situation you're in, you can always find good in it. And I think that's the good in it for me is that, um, it's been very humbling for one.

And another is that, um, I have an appreciation for people that have health issues or struggles like I never would have before. Um, so that, that's kind of, that's one of the ways I look at it. Yeah. It's a good way to look at it. I know that, uh, I, I never, well, actually I did, well, I had some, some stomach issues too, about three years ago, I think like, well, I still have a little bit now, but for the most part, like, uh, for a while there I was eating just drumsticks. So chicken drumsticks, organic chicken drumsticks. And, uh, I think there was eggs, uh, broccoli, and there was one more vegetable I think that I was, I was doing.

And this was like a constant, this was like night after night after night. Um, and not to say that's probably the healthiest way to eat, but I didn't want to feel like crap anymore. It's not worth it. Yeah. It's, it's honestly like, it's really, at the end of the day, when I first figured out I couldn't eat these certain foods, I'd be like, Oh, well I'm flying home. I'm in Hawaii. I'm going to eat this food. Cause I'm back home and I'd feel crappy after. And it's like, now there does not, it's not justified by any means. I'd so rather feel good than eat like that. So, so speaking of which, are we allowed to talk about that pastry?

No, no, not today for another time. 2.0. Okay. It's still in the works, isn't it? Still in the works. Yeah. When it's, when it's further along, we'll definitely talk about that one. Okay. Yeah. I can't wait to hear more about that. Um, okay. So is there anything else you would like to, uh, add before we end? We're around 40 minutes here. So this is. Oh yeah. Um, you, you had touched on with me, like you had asked me to talk about what's helped me through all this because, um, like I said, there was a while there where I was depressed and it's funny because when people find out about my back issues, they're like, oh gosh, you're way too young to have that.

They don't even know about my stomach issues or vice versa. If they find out about my stomach issues, they're like, oh, you're too young for that. Well, they probably think you're like, just by your thinness, they probably think that you're extremely healthy and active. I think so. Yeah. So, um, there, there's been a lot of the change or a lot of things that have helped me for one has been changing my perspective on it. And that for me is a daily practice. Um, every more, like I've, I've really tried to incorporate more gratitude, uh, in my life and simple little things like every morning, um, my girlfriend and I will exchange things we're thankful for at the end of the night, we'll do the same thing.

So three things in the morning, three things at night. Um, and when things seem to not be going my way, I try to ask myself, like, what does this make possible? So I remember a while back when I was first having all this happen, I was walking around Whole Foods trying to shop for myself, just feeling completely sorry for myself, like total pity party. And I, I wouldn't, it was such a victim mentality, you know, and I, I really wouldn't think that way anymore because like, for one, I'm fortunate that I can't even afford to shop at Whole Foods. How many people can really do that? To be honest. And it's like, I got my legs.

I can walk around. Like I live a very good life. You know, I really, I have nothing to complain about and I feel like the antidote to complaining is gratitude. So that's one of the things where I've been trying to practice more of that and make it a daily habit, uh, through that. And to be completely candid, the other thing that's really helped me through it is I'm a Christian and my faith has really helped me throughout this whole journey. Uh, especially when I was like struggling more and kind of like having more doubts, uh, keeping my faith has been, has been really solid. So for what it's worth to people, those are things that have been beneficial.

And of course, all the books, lots and lots of books that honestly health for a while there, it's been kind of a full-time job, like learning, seeing doctors. Uh, there's a lot of education that's needed to happen, but, um, it, I would much rather go through that and have a better understanding than just trust what everybody tells me as opposed to knowing for myself. So everything God is good. I think that, I mean, good mental outlook. He got, um, gosh, I'm lost the words right now of, uh, great to always say gratitude. Yeah. Um, and the education that you, that you have now, uh, is actually, I mean, that's what I at least try to preach to a lot of people with, um, I told you about doing the shoulder anatomy podcast, which is going to be extremely boring, but, um, there's, I think you can make good educated decisions if you know about yourself and about the conditions that could be ailing you.

You know, it, I think it empowers you to some degree, you know, it does. Yeah. It's better than going through blind for sure. Um, I don't think ignorance is bliss when it comes to your health. True that. Yeah. Well, cool. Then I guess we will finish up here and I will just close out the podcast by letting everyone know that, uh, actually, well, first James, is there, do you want anyone to contact you? Is there anything that you, um, if people want to contact me? Um, they can, to be honest with you, I'm normally a pretty private person, but I've been trying to be more, more vulnerable with this because the more I can tell their people what I'm going through, the more I can maybe help someone who's going through the exact same thing.

And before I didn't have that outlook, I really kept it to myself. So now I'm trying to be, uh, more open with that. Well, before you saying too, with, uh, just, just make sure that, so we haven't said your last name yet. So if you keep something private still, you can. So I know your, your email is, uh, it has that in there. So I can, but it's okay. I don't mind putting it in there. My, my email, if people have any questions or if I can provide any guidance on, uh, gut issues, I, I'd be more than happy to, uh, my email is, uh, my name is James Mullis. That's M-U-L-L-I-S-8-0-8 at gmail.com. Man, it's going to like blow up in like two months.

I doubt it. Hey, you never know. You never know. Um, well, cool. Well, thanks for coming on, James. Um, yeah, I'm sure that, uh, yeah, that, that other topic will, will have to come later for sure. Yeah. That, that'll be a success story for the future. Yeah. Pat Flynn success story. That'll be amazing. Um, yeah, actually, Jane, I don't know if you, or I think we talked about you, uh, you telling me to listen to some podcasts has made me what, why I wanted to start doing this too. Just a good, good voice to like be able to, you know, get out to more people at one time rather than just, um, I know for my own sanity of saying the same story over and over again.

It's just easier to say, look, you know, you got some GI stuff. Just listen to the podcast on James. Awesome. I'm happy to be here. It was my pleasure. Oh, thank you. Um, so yeah, so anyone else who has, uh, interesting stories, uh, go on to the P2 sports care website. That's P2, the number sports is plural care.com. Uh, there is a voicemail button right there in the center, uh, as well. I just added it today is there is a podcast section where you can access and listen to them around the page. They're all embedded in there. So it's right on the menu button as well. Um, but you can also download it on iTunes and please, please, please share and, uh, subscribe to it.

And that's, what's going to help me make a living at this one day. Um, because I know it's not going to do it right now how it is. Um, but yeah, so thank you very much. And, uh, I will talk to you guys soon. Thanks.