Hypnotherapy, Memory and the Biopsychosocial Side of Pain

You're not doing anything as a hypnotherapist. You're letting that person sort out that stuff. So everybody has a belief about something because it served them well and it proved correct enough for them to believe it. And so they're just operating on that presumption or belief until it's challenged and it no longer serves them well. And then they have to decide to choose how to do something different or they get to continue to try the same thing and just beat the crap out of themselves. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales.

Hey guys, it's Sebastian. Thanks again for joining me with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for being part of the movement movement. So, if you're not familiar with me, by the way, if this is your very first podcast that you listen to, I'm a doctor of chiropractic and I started this podcast mainly to help people understand their knowledge about how the human body works and how the human body moves. And how you're going to hear, you're going to hear in this interview today I did with Garrett Wood, who's a licensed massage therapist. He was a strength coach. He also did, was trained in active release as well as, as you're going to see, hypnotherapy.

There's a lot of parts to improving how people move. Now, as we go through this whole educational thing, I think you're going to get a lot from this if you're a healthcare provider, a DCPT, a massage therapist, a strength coach, and even patients. Even patients, I think you're going to get something from this. We go into a very general conversation about how to work with people and people's come-froms and what could be affecting their muscles or their aches and pains and stuff that they come from. Come in with. So, Garrett was, he was an amazing interview actually and he reached out to me through Instagram and he's like, you should have a licensed massage therapist on.

I said, great, cool. Who, I haven't had one yet, so who do you recommend? He's like, well, I'm one. Let's talk. And after seeing all the people that he knows that I know, I'm like, well, they wouldn't be friends with the fraud, so let's just see what it's all about. And after talking to him, I really enjoyed it. I know we're going to talk much more in the future. Now, just to be clear on this is that there was a part that I actually bleeped in this podcast and I didn't think it was bad, honestly. And we talked in the podcast a little bit if I should bleep or not. And we talked afterwards, it's like, should we include or not include that?

Because just sometimes terms and experiences are really personable or personal to people and they take things different ways. So I didn't want to take a chance, I just bleeped it, but I believe it was completely in context. And as we talked later, he said that this portion, this experience that he had, blended who he is and now he's much more empathetic when he works with people. And I've had experiences like that a ton. So I'll bleep it just to make sure that everybody has the adult earmuffs on. But either way, use it to your imagination of what it was, but I'm trying to be courteous, so let's just take that into a context there.

Now, a little bit about a story about me and my food before we actually start so you can learn some more about me, your host. So I have a couple friends who are just down, just totally down with In-N-Out. And if you grew up in Southern California or actually if you're probably from an area surrounding and you've come and you've had a friend in Orange County or in California who showed you In-N-Out, all of a sudden you lose their shit. They lose their shit about In-N-Out. And I don't quite get it at all. Like, I grew up here. Like, In-N-Out's okay, but I don't think it merits the line in the fanaticism about it.

So when I tell this to people, they're like, no, you're crazy. In-N-Out is money. And I know people who have driven from Salt Lake City down to Vegas to get In-N-Out and then drive back. I mean, people lose their mind about In-N-Out. It's probably like White Castle up in the, where is that, like Minnesota? Pacific. No, that's not Pacific. That's East, East side of the U.S. But I believe that In-N-Out doesn't take the necessary steps, unless you specifically ask for it, to include texture within their food. And I believe that texture, or I believe that taste and texture and aroma are all parts of cooking, cooking well.

I mean, I don't want something soggy. So I went up to the In-N-Out recently. I said, look, I'm here with friends. How do I get a burger that's not actually soggy? And the lady's like, I don't know how to do that. And then the guy next to her is like, you know, put like extra crispy bun, which they did, which was great. Now, there's another burger establishment around the area. It's called The Habit. And I tell people, I'm like, look, The Habit is better than In-N-Out. And they're like, oh, you're full of shit. And I'm like, no, really? Here's the reason why. They care about texture. And so when you have a burger in In-N-Out, you just get the standard burger.

When you bite into it, you can't tell if you can actually hear or feel the crunch first. There's actually a crunch in your burger. And I got to say, that's a tension right there. That's a tension to texture. So In-N-Out, I believe if In-N-Out is going to get better, we got to do extra crispy or toasted bun. That should be a standard part of their menu. In-N-Out, if you're listening, that's what I think. Do it. You're going to wow so many people's mouths. Let's get into the interview. All right, everyone. We're going to welcome on Garrett Wood here. Garrett's going to tell us all about, gosh, we're going to go into so much crap today.

To be honest, I don't know exactly what we're going to go into, but we interacted on Instagram. Yeah. And you know people that I know. And you said you should have a massage therapist on. I said, that is a great idea. I love that. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. So the listenership is mainly a bunch of healthcare providers. There are some patients in lay public that go on. Great. So if you do say something technical, I might ask you to clarify a little bit for the people listening over the shoulder. Perfect. Okay. Um, God, we had so much conversation right before. I don't even, I hate to go into like mundane shit now.

No, that's great. We can start wherever. Yeah. Okay. Um, why don't you tell us then how you got into massage therapy? Yeah. We just heard that story, but I'm going to give you a chance to sell it a second time. I love it. So it's going to sound more entertaining this time. And I'll start at the end and work my way back. I'll get to the punchline and then work my way back. Um, I had some anterior hip pain and it was pretty brutal. And to the point where I ended up at the end of three years at an ER at 11 o'clock at night on a Friday night. And, uh, the treating physician had his hands on my testicles.

Both or one? Uh, just one hand at a time. So I was thinking both testicles are one. Uh, he, he got around to touching both of the time. Um, but it's just the one. And he was looking for, you know, some type of torsion or something to explain the pain that I was going through. And he couldn't have anything to the point where his knowledge at the time, he came to the conclusion or the assumption that that was how I, uh, spent my Friday nights. So did he, did he ask you where else you frequent? Like, is the other, is that the best hospital that you've been to lately? Did you have to wait in the line or pay cover to get in this time?

Yeah. I mean, you have to pay a copay. It's a $25, you know, entry into the three. And there's a long line in that line, right? You're right. And actually I saw that you worked at Florentine's in Fullerton. Yeah. But this time you didn't have to wait in a segregated line of genders to get in. No. Yeah. And I, I've been, and the funny part is I've been bartending at that time too. So, um, under a lot of stress, like a lot of sleep issues and stuff. Anyway, so I had, uh, I was still searching for an answer and they were going to cut me open to see if there was something they could see. Right. And like get in there and open things up to get rid of that pain.

And I was not excited about that. So instead, uh, I kept looking for other answers. I got a guy's card. Um, it said doc synergy sports care and I got it. Is that Bill? That is Bill. Oh, so very small world, right? Bill, Bill actually works where I interned. I love it. Yeah. Oh, so then he rents space out of there. Uh, he's now in San Diego full time. So go, he was, so it wasn't orange at the time. Yep. So it was an orange. Yeah. So I went to that office and he put his thumb in my pectineus and did a little ART release and had me running around the block with no pain for the first time in three years.

Nice. Changed my life. But, and, uh, at the time I was working as a fitness manager, managing 20 ish plus trainers and then their clients sitting down a lot. Um, and then bartending at night trying to pay off my student loans. Nice. So after Bill put his hands on your testicles and then told you about ART, you wanted to become a massage therapist? Uh, I wanted to do what Bill did. I wanted my clients to feel what Matt, like the magic of what that felt like for me. And I was so blown away that treating physicians, um, in like a hospital setting, right? Like with the white lab coats and all that had so little understanding of how much impact that a simple amount of touch could make.

They both had their hands on my junk. Essentially. One, I was sent away with disdain, right? And the other one I could run around the block for the first time in three years. So one was gloved and one was ungloved. Uh, what Bill did not have gloves on, but he wasn't skin to skin contact. He was over the skin. I had some gym shorts on. Right. And he probably, he probably directed his, please move your junk to the side as I'm going to treat this pectineous. Well, that's cool. It's a good story. Actually, funny Bill, did you, do you know how Bill came to do ART? No, I don't. So he was actually, um, uh, he was, he was a client at a place and he was a re I think this is correct.

He was a retired chiropractor and he came back because he had so much success with, uh, getting treated. Wow. So then, then he eventually came later. I remember he, when he was coming in at the time as, um, as a client and, uh, he was just so in awe with it. So Bill, if I got that wrong, sorry, but I, I think that's what I remember years and years ago. That's so awesome. I just got goosebumps right now. Like to hear that was his experience and then for him to share that experience with me and then for me to now carry that on with my clients. Right. Like, Oh, that's beautiful. Like that's really beautiful.

Yeah. So when you do tissue or when you're doing massage now, is it mainly, is it mainly massage massage or is it like active release or more of the segregated technique stuff? Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of modalities when it comes to tissue, right? And it all works and it all doesn't work and it all has different, you know, what it really depends on is the client that's in front of you and what they're open to. But the setting that I'm in is very similar to like a chiropractic setting. Lights are on, clothes are on. It's the same way I saw the results. And I think, um, you know, I had a ex-girlfriend a long time ago who worked at Glen Ivy and I'd never had a massage before that.

And she paid for it and it was a male massage therapist and he had very large hands. He was like six, five and like played ball for college. And, uh, man, I'm just going to get all the junk touching. Yeah. I was just waiting. This is great. I was just waiting. This is going to be a theme throughout the entire day. This is wild. So he's doing these long gliding strokes and I'm face down. Right. And I'm, I'm hyper nervous. Cause like, I've never had a male touch my naked body before alone in a room with the lights off and music on. Right. Like, you know, you can hear the Barry white voice kind of coming out.

Oh, I thought it was going to be a dollar or something, you know? No. Yeah. And yeah. And, uh, he's doing these long gliding strokes and he also nicked my, uh, my testicles there and like, we've had this awkward moment where it was like, wait, are we both okay? All right. You, you had a, you had a Jerry Seinfeld, George Costanza moment. Yeah. And so, um, that was my first massage. It, and it wasn't relaxing for me. Right. I was cause of all of the social constraints around, you know, human touch and male to male touch and all that stuff. Um, so I feel like in my clinical setting, it's, you know, lights on, clothes on, we do a full movement screen, you know, I try to teach the client how to do the release work themselves.

I found that, um, then putting themselves hands on themselves is actually more effective than me doing to them. Um, cause they can work deeper, quicker, longer. Right. So then, well, two points there is that explain, explain the, them, uh, treating themselves. Yeah. So, uh, in my mind, if you can get the intervention closest to the thing that's causing the discomfort, like in the same moment, and if you can tie the intervention to a trigger and pain is a great trigger, then you're more likely to create a successful outcome over time. So, oh, I'm reaching this way. My shoulder hurts. Oh, great.

What is the thing that I do when I hurt to fix my shoulder? Oh, I do this. Okay, great. So now every time my shoulder hurts, I stop running that program cause I create the intervention to do it. Okay. In my mind, I feel like that's the most effective way for someone to feel like empowered to affect change. That's good. I like that. That's, uh, yeah, it makes them less dependent upon you. Yeah. Um, bad for business, by the way. No, it's great. They, uh, they get real happy about it, you know? And then they refer their friend that's got like something that's completely out of my scope because they're like, oh, you fixed my thing.

And I'm like, I didn't do anything. You're doing it. I heard, I heard you kept telling stories about testicles. So I brought in a friend who has torsion. Yeah. And I'm like, great. I heard you can twist them counterclockwise. And then that makes it all go away. And I'm like, no, I don't do that. You know, can we though? Can we really, do you think that's a treatable, just turn it back? I don't think that is in my scope. There's a guy at UCLA, um, who talks about pelvic floor health and I forget his name right now, but, um, I would definitely refer them to him and he's like a specialist and he's local.

So go see him. I can't imagine a worse job to have really. I mean, I would, I would specialize in, uh, I would do haircuts. I would be, I would shave people's heads probably before I, I didn't know what you're going to shave. Yeah. Um, gosh, there's a, there's a store there. There's a store in Newport. It said, I think it's a Brazilian wax place, but it's called, um, the pretty kitty or something like that. That makes sense. Yeah. It's definitely a wax place. Yeah. I was thinking of that. Um, so the second thing he said was that the, so you have the clothes on experience with that and I'm going to give you enough time to drink that coffee there.

So I'm going to keep rambling here. No, this is great. Yeah. I love this. This is perfect. Um, so there's, there's, there's the, there's the movement that you're doing. It sounds like in an effort to, I'd imagine as you're trying to figure out a problem to solve, um, do, do massage service always have the problem that they, do they investigate the problem they're solving or do they just apply a solution or is there a realm in there? Yeah. I think that, um, massages right now, I think when we say the word, I even hate to say the word massage itself when I talk to new people, because there's something to be some confusion.

They're like, so where's the candles? I, the lights are on. Where do I disrobe at? Right. Just right here. Right. Um, and I have a friend who's a massage therapist and he works in a clinical setting as well. And he's very clear about his frequently asked questions section of his website and his emails and, um, because I feel like here in the States, yeah, we think of massage as synonymous with spa, right? And so unfortunately in a spa setting, you're back to back clients, which is not always bad, but the expectation is face down, lights off, clothes off, no talking. And so there's no real open lines of communication.

So I'm not sure if you've ever tried to solve a problem without talking through it with a person. Uh, it's much more challenging and your intuition skills and level of awareness have to be like extra sensory to be able to accomplish that. And I think you get lucky often enough, like, and sometimes just having someone relax for a little bit and take a vacation for themselves and hit reset is enough to tone down a lot of the intense feelings in their body. So I think that's a great purpose for that. Taking a little vacation from yourself. Okay. Is that a still, is it the ultimate staycation? Yeah, there you go.

Right. Two hours on a table with outside of your own mind for a second. I feel like that is the ultimate staycation and it doesn't cost you much, right? It doesn't. Yeah. Um, that is interesting though with the, um, I've only had this happen once. I had a, I had a patient come in that was from out of country and they had said that like, so I was trying to troubleshoot with them and I don't think they quite understood what was like, why they were here. Yeah. And I was talking with them and stuff and they said, in our country, we don't speak when we do this. And I thought, oh, well, in our country, in the way this practice is that I have to figure out what's going on with you.

But we, I don't get that much as, as chiropractic, I would imagine as massage, as that label, you're going to get it more. A hundred percent. Yeah. So, um, as I was looking through your content, there was a lot of biopsychosocial stuff. Yeah. Okay. Can you, can you explain how you came from hip pain and torsional or in, in testicular torsion to ART and the pectinus and now biopsychosocial cycle social? A hundred percent. So, uh, yeah, uh, I'd say that's a decade of hanging out and just looking for practical solutions to people that are in pain and looking for the lowest lying fruit. Just like, okay, that works.

Oh, that didn't work. Why not? What next? Right. So, uh, ART is a wonderful tool. I got a lot of results with it. Sometimes a client would get off the table and it would be worse. They would like completely destabilize. Right. And I'm like, Oh my God, what happened? I thought it's supposed to work. This is, this is the magic. What? This is anti-magic. Oh my God. And so, you know, my faith wavered in, um, the idea of a modality being the one be all end all. Um, but it didn't stop me from, you know, trying to figure out how to apply these tools or where to apply them. And so there's a lot of different assessment tools out there.

And I was able as an LMT to take the SFMA course. I'm not certified, um, because of my license to touch, but I absorb as much information as I possibly could. I like the good, good wording on that. Yeah. It's really, it really did help inform my practice. Um, and also the clients that I see to be able to have, see them, see the change. And I feel like that's actually more impactful than anything I'm doing for bringing their understanding of how their body works along for the ride. And I think the biopsychosocial model really pays attention to client education. And beliefs and understanding of what's actually going on beneath the surface and creating an idea that they can be, feel empowered to affect change themselves.

Um, and I think the movement screen is a phenomenal way of demonstrating change and how easy it is to put new input into the system and see a different output for movement. And so after a few years of playing with that and figuring out where to put the release work, I almost lost faith in even just the release work and the tissue work itself for a long time and thought maybe it was just like rebooting the system. Like, you know, just like taking a nap was, you feel better after a nap, you feel better after a massage, you feel better after an adjustment. Um, you feel better after a run or meditation or mindfulness.

And then, um, I was teaching a course or assisting teaching a course for, um, a modality that is a really cool assessment tool for group muscle patterns of kinetic chains. Right. And I had a lady on the table and I had her doing a release to her, uh, pec minor and she'd had pain in her shoulder for a long time and it wouldn't release to my touch. So I was like, Oh, you try yourself. You can work deeper, harder and faster than I can. And it'll feel safer to your body. And she was like, why is that? And I was like, well, you can't tickle yourself. Like it's part of this proprioception thing. And then I also made a really off color joke, especially in that environment.

Uh, three people laughed. Two people were like, Ooh, I don't want to laugh. Yeah. It was, it was, it was kind of just like, Hmm, is this the correct context for this? And, and, uh, the facilitator for that modality is, uh, you know, pretty fun guy to hang around. So I felt like it was appropriate and I was riffing off of that, but I have a tendency to overdo things all the time and not know where that line is. Um, luckily we're still friends and she's a DC and she works with children and she's got a thriving practice and she's a sweet lady. Um, and it triggered something in her and, um, it brought up a memory and emotion.

And luckily for me, that was what actually got rid of that change in that tissue. Hmm. Cause she was able to, what, what, what did it bring up with her? Uh, an experience that she had had. So by recognizing that she was able to make the change. Yeah. The tissue did the body did. How, how's that work? I don't know. You're supposed to be the expert in this. I think for us to map out the mechanisms that are involved for that, we got like a hundred years of science to figure that out. Yeah. We'd have to create like an artificial body. That's a replica of us with the whole neural system and everything and all the proprioception and then be able to dissect it apart because ethically you can't do that to people.

I think they did it on Westworld. I think we're almost, we're almost there. In conception, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting. Um, funny that like, so there's, there's, I'm very liberal with, with, uh, what I, what I say in here too. So mainly with queuing, cause I try to make the cues ridiculous enough to where the people can remember that that was a dumb conversation. Yes. Right. So I, there was, there was someone that I, I wanted them to, to finish a hip extension. They just were, they were hanging back. They just weren't finishing. So I usually say, take a quarter, break it into five nickels between your ass cheeks.

I love that. And that doesn't always work. So I say, um, and it, cause they, they don't send to, to hold. I want them to just hold there at least for a second. And so I said, you have an Oreo cookie. It's double stuffed. Can you squeeze all the last bits of the white part out of it? And, uh, it was an AIDS group. I probably shouldn't have said it too, but it worked. They got what they, they got what they needed. Well, that's, that's the point, right? Yeah. I feel like when you're a treating physician at an ER center, right? Like there's some stuff that's wildly inappropriate and you have a big HR department, you probably get fired for something like that.

But if it gets your client's results and it sticks when they're not around you, you just help that person. Right. And the more ridiculous, the better. Yeah. Well, I think it's, I mean, I always see it as a little bit unconventional because obviously you see the, the doc or the, the therapist as a little bit like they should be more reserved. But I mean, I, I think we talked a little earlier, just kind of like meeting people where they're at and just seeing what they're, they'll take, you know, what will help them. So you went from having a problem in the hip to, uh, having a bad experience in, in five hospitals and then giving, uh, giving $1 tips every time you left and, um, doing S, uh, ART, then SFMA, then, um, how would you categorize the, the mental aspect or the, uh, I don't even know where to go on this.

You just lead this part right here. You lead it. Cause I need to, I need it to be addressed because, because after looking at all your content, I actually, I wrote part of this down. I make a couple of notes for myself right here. So I wrote down biopsychosocial. Why are these terms so fucking complex? Yeah. I don't think anyone gets it. Yeah. Or you would, if you're in the realm, but then it's like, as a patient, it's like, this is like legalese. It is. Yeah. It feels like that. And I feel like, uh, that's cause it's so new that everybody wants to sound super professional when they talk about it.

Um, I'm like, look, I'm a professional people petter. Like that's my license, right? Like I'm a card carrying people petter. That's it. That's what I, so I don't get to actually be professional. I get to be personable and I get a care. And that's the important part. And it's interesting because if you look at mental and emotional aspects of people showing up and seeing somebody and saying, I see you and I understand where you're coming from and I can appreciate what's happening is really therapeutic for people. And I think as any personal practitioner where you're laying hands on somebody, you're doing that.

And the more you do that, the better your results are. And there's studies out there that even like surgeons who have a good bedside manner, which is what they talk about, right? Their insurance premiums are lower because the client's results are better. Oh, really? Just because they're nice people. They're not an asshole. Yeah. That is interesting. The, uh, where did you learn your bedside manner? Uh, from the bartending days. Oh, really? Yeah. So what was your experience through bartending? It's just like, if you're an a-hole, no one leaves a tip. Yeah. It works both. It depends on the person, right?

Yeah. It depends on the person. So some people, they need you to be an a-hole, um, cause that's who they are. And so they won't respect you if you're nice to them. Interesting. It's very interesting. How do you, how do you identify those people? Ooh, trial and error and like a long monetary feedback system for reward. Just time in the saddle. There's a, there's a clear financial incentive to be good at that game when you're bartending and you get a thousand ups a night. Yeah. So 10 years, six nights a week. That's a lot of time in the saddle of like sitting across from someone. Yeah. And reading their social cues and understanding whatever.

You'd have to be very good at visual or nonverbal, right? Cause you, could you, I mean, can you hear it? I don't know. I'm always amazed how bartenders can hear. No. I mean, we just, it's like any system in any game, right? Like if you know football, you, and I don't, you can know where the game is and you can see where the play is going to go. And you could probably call one of the three plays and be right 30% of the time. I don't know football, so I can't do that. I'm just like, Oh, is that the extra point? I don't. Okay. Great. But in a crowded bar, I could be like, that guy is going to fight with that guy in 10 minutes and I can get it.

Interesting. So is the bartender kind of like, is that why sometimes they're elevated so they can, it's, this is more of an entertainment for them to see the field and are they a quarterback? They're more than a quarterback. If they want to make money, they're good at it. But I think, uh, oftentimes, you know, they're more interested in who they're working with than like coworkers than they are with the public they're serving. But if you find a bar where they're not like that, then keep going there for your booze. It'll be good. Yeah. That's so interesting that you, uh, uh, you got all, you got the, you got the skills from a job.

I guess that's not entry level. That'd be like bar back would be entry level, like a host. Well, entry level for that position was a dishwasher for me. I was at 13 years old. Was it really? Yeah. So you were working there from how many years? So I started working there. So I moved around a lot, but, um, I, my first like paycheck job, not under the table, but paycheck job, um, I was, I was a dishwasher. Yeah. And it was at like a banquet center that also had like a diner attached to it and then like a bar and a bowling alley and a hotel. So it was a pretty, there's a lot of groups of people. Definitely Disney.

It was, uh, no, it was actually in Bakersfield. So yeah, yeah. Um, we had tours come from Vegas, stop in Bakersfield and then they would go to Disney. So it's funny you mentioned that. So they would stay there overnight. Yeah. Interesting. I actually recently I passed through Bakersfield, obviously, like most people do just keep 90 miles an hour there. Everyone drives right past it. Right. So, but I, I pulled off cause we were looking for breakfast burritos and we pull it. We probably went about two miles off the, off the highway to the West side. And then we're in old town Bakersfield and I was reading stuff on the wall and, and, uh, like murals and whatnot.

And I'm like, why, like, why is this town here? Like there's, I don't understand why it's so big and why it's here. And it was, what is it? A silver town or something? It was like, I think it originally was like a, it was a mining town, but I was, I'm always interested like how those towns in the middle of nowhere that seem like they have no beach or mountain or pop up or body of water. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There was, there was literally nothing there. There's nothing. Yeah. So it's ag and oil and then, um, uh, trains. So Amtrak is a big deal from there. And so it was a nice stop for that. And then agriculture was huge and then oil.

So when they found oil, that's the town. And then it's so cheap to live there that a lot of big corporations that want to operate in California, which is silly, they shouldn't, but that's okay. They do. And thank God for us. Um, they, uh, they set up shop there. Yeah. So it's, they can fly in their execs and have them live in really nice houses with elevators in them. And it still only costs them less than it costs for our apartment here. So California, you're right. How many, how many places you've been where like, you tell them what you pay here and, and they're just like dumbfounded by the whole concept of it.

It's shocking. I don't like to think about it too much. Right. Yeah. Have you considered moving elsewhere? I have. Um, I enjoy, I, so I live in Long Beach and I've been there now for five years and it reminds me a lot of Portland as a city, amazing coffee, great, like outside bike riding is big. There's a beach, Portland's like the same thing, but there's no, uh, culture. So there's like a lack of like really good food. Like you don't get street vendors, right? You don't get like hole in the wall spots. You get these fancy restaurants, which is nice and they're good. They're always farmed at table.

Yeah. Right. All of it. The whole town. Yeah. You, you know, the, the whole history of the egg. Yeah. And you, you, I think Oregon and those restaurants have figured out which one came first. They figured that brittle out chicken or the egg. I didn't catch that for one second, but you're right. Yeah. You're right. We should just go up there and do a, do a, do a trial just to see which restaurants got it, got it right. Right. Yeah. Just a survey for us. We'll know we can finally answer that question. Yeah. It's probably not about the answer, but it's about which ones knew they knew the answer. Yeah.

So, so I like Long Beach and so it's, it's worth the, it's worth the money to stay here. I do think that. Yeah. I live right here in Huntington. I, uh, I thought I wanted to move away at one point. I still don't know. I still want the luxury to be able to move away at the drop of hat if I wanted to. It'd be nice to get the podcast rolling with that. Yeah. Um, but, uh, actually at one point I didn't, I didn't know if I wanted to be in healthcare anymore and that's that I started going into coffee. Oh, wow. Yeah. So we were, we were talking earlier about how, well, actually we were on this already with a bedside manner.

Yeah. Um, I kind of felt myself getting grumpy and just getting disheartened about the, um, like the come from, from patients and saying the same thing over and over again, but also to being guarded. And because of the whole, um, you're not supposed to be friends with your patients. You're not supposed to like interact with them socially. And I'm like, this is bullshit. You know, like the whole thing with like patient care, I feel like, or people, you're working with people as human interaction. And I was like, I can't do this. I'm like coffee. You know what the best thing about coffee is? You sit there and you experience the person.

So that's why we went down the coffee roasting route at the time. That's awesome. Yeah. That's no more. What happened? Uh, the, the, the, uh, the squeeze was not, the fruit was not worth the squeeze. And I found that it was, we were kind of messing around with that maybe four hours a week and we were really bad at, I actually, one thing I learned from coffee was that, that any business has the same problems and it's about securing, getting the person to do what you need them to do to get to the goal that they wanted. So the people that were like, Hey, let's get your coffee. I'm like, that's a good idea.

You should buy our coffee. So we go out there, we show them the coffee, we showcase all this stuff. And then eventually, um, we're like, let's get it in your shop. And then all of a sudden we were bad at closing. And now here at the office, it's like, I recognize that if I don't get this person to do exactly what I'm asking them to do, then they're going to go somewhere else. And they might go to one of those guys that might not, you know, touch their, you know, and their problem won't be solved. So if I feel confident about it, I feel like I owe it to them to get to that point. A hundred percent.

But that was the end of the coffee thing. It's funny that you went to a completely another industry to figure out the solution to this one, right? Yeah. But I feel like I did learn a lot about coffee at that point. Yeah. And a lot about people. So what do you think of the coffee we have today? I think it's good. Actually the, so everyone's in case you want to know, we're, we're drinking Lord Windsor's coffee from Long Beach. This is cold brewed. Um, this is a Rwanda. Actually I was so, I've noticed that some of the places that do cold brew, it seems like a lot of them, they do a Sumatran and it's really my, in my opinion, Sumatran is really mildewy just as a coffee because of wet region and I don't like it.

It just tastes dirty. Right. And I'm down with this. I like, I like, I like this better because it's, it's a little brighter. Yeah. And they do a lot of floral, like Lord Windsor is like citrus and floral, right? That's what I like. I've, I've had enough folders and Starbucks over my life where I don't need more burnt sooty, soily coffee. So I can't afford living in Southern California to be a snob about a lot of things, right? Or a connoisseur, either whatever you want to call it, depends on which side of the coin you're looking at. But, uh, I really enjoy coffee. Um, and I have this terrible analogy when it comes to massage is, it's just like, it's a, what that image that that brings up in people's minds is so limiting.

Um, and I don't think it does a good service to the industry. And I think a lot of massage therapists struggle to build a thriving practice because they're butting up against that perception and human touch is becoming a commodity. That's going to the lowest bidder and someone's experiencing something for 20 or 30 or even 40 or even $60. And they're using that to say that that's all there is to experience. And I feel like that would be like something going to seven 11 and trying a sip of coffee and being like, not for me. Yeah. And I'm like, but that's not, that's not even coffee. Like, I don't know what that is.

That's that. Yeah. Good, good point with that. So I know that when, when we started to educate, we had a whole thing called a coffee thing called a coffee flight is taking a traditional coffee. We actually went to, uh, we went to Costco and bought Starbucks there, their dark French roast. We ground everything up for the people. Actually, I don't remember if we ground it up. Um, but it was in, we had four or five bags and then there was a Sumatran. There was an Ethiopian, there was a Panama and, uh, I think El Salvador, but, um, there was, there was a lot more floral ones in there. So we wanted people to experience the broad range of coffee and imagine like with, with massage, it's the same thing.

And what we found was that a lot of people, especially some of the accounts that we service is, is they're like, they were, they were, we call it diner coffee. They're just like, well, I don't like this. It's, it doesn't taste like coffee. It's like, no, what you experience coffee as typically is char. So you think the taste of coffee is char and that's what you've been conditioned to know. And, but it's not. So, and I would imagine the massage is the same way or other, other things are the same way, right? I think everything's the same way, right? Like, even if you're looking at like, and I'm not, I don't know what I'm going to say.

So this is a wild analogy, but it's not even, if you are looking for a black blouse, right? So we're talking to our female listeners now. Hopefully there's a lot of those so they can get this reference because it'll be lost on the rest of us. I can't wait to hear where this is going. So if there's a black blouse and there's a certain style that you like, you could go and get the forever 21 version of it. You could go and get the 7th street in downtown LA version of it for half the price that you're going to get it forever 21. Or you can go to Ann or Mike or Michael Kors or something like that.

And you can get the five times the price style of it. They're all Sumatras. They're all dark roast. They're all whatever, right? Or they're all a black blouse. But I don't think any of those people are actually in competition with each other. I feel like there's plenty of room for everybody to buy their own version of that black blouse that they want. I'm just grateful that I'm an opportunity to be able to afford this. Yeah. This is better. I'm not going to lie. This is good. Yeah. Thanks, Lord Windsor. Sponsored by Lord Windsor. Yeah, right. Support your local roaster. That's for sure. I agree with that.

And local practitioners. And I think there's a big box chain stuff going on for chiropractic care. There's big box chains going on for massage. I don't know if that's true of like therapy, like mental therapy, like psychologists. I don't know. I don't know if they've gotten there yet. Yeah. There's a business idea for somebody out there. Right. Well, there's big box for, there's legal Zoom. So, that's one thing. I'm sure there's more. Yeah. Financial assistance, somehow. Yeah. So, since there's a lot of probably more chiropractors listening to this, how does a chiropractor find someone like you to co-manage with if they want to?

And how would they actually co-manage? Because some of the techniques you do are actually similar to what they do. Yeah. Cash base is probably the way to go. Mm-hmm. On that. And then there's no problem there. I don't know. I'm not up to speed on billing for chiropractic care. I'm not either. So, I don't know how that would work, right? I couldn't speak to any of that. I do know that if you're looking for a qualified massage therapist that feel like they are providing something different than Folgers. I like how this coffee go down. It's a good analogy, right? So, we'll keep using it. Oh, it's good.

Yeah. You're good at keeping speed on this. Yeah. So, NHI, National Holistic Institute, in California especially, they're probably the best school for massage therapists. When I was working for a big chain, that's where I went to do all my recruiting, the people that I hired from there, I had to do the least amount of continuing ed with. They knew the body the best. They could speak eloquently. They really cared about people and were passionate about it. It wasn't just something that they showed up and were like, man, we'll see. They were like, oh, no, this is great. I can actually help people.

And not so much in a medical setting where they were like, didn't want to be a nurse. Right? And those are kind of their options. The program there, they have an advanced neuromuscular therapy program and it's pretty good. It's got a ton of like myodontal, or I can't even talk. Yeah. When in doubt, just say Folgers or Sumatra and then you'll... Yeah, we'll carry it on. I need more cold reading in my brain. But they understand the body really well and referral patterns of pain and all that fun stuff. And they care. So I would say that's probably the best place to look. And there's a ton of new students coming out.

So if you're looking for massage therapist, I would go there. And they have a wildly awesome externship program. So it costs the person nothing. There's no extra insurance. It's all covered by them. And they're getting student hours as long as you overlook. Okay. Interesting. And you took the route of how do you get someone to work for you? Because I was thinking, how do we just send and then send back? Oh, like in a partnership. Yeah. So I imagine that... I mean, from a chiropractor's perspective, like I do tissue work. I've done ART for a while. We do strength conditioning. We do rehab stuff.

We do a bunch of that thing, all that stuff. But it took me a while to get there. It took me many years to be able to... It was kind of like layering effect. A hundred percent. And I'm still not good at certain things. So I might as well refer out to somebody else. So I was thinking maybe if there was a chiropractor who was not honed in on their manual therapy skills, if they would then co-manage. I love that. Yeah. So you got to decide who's going to be the quarterback. That's going to be the most important part. And it sounds like if you're running cash-based business, these are people that probably have more than just a chiropractor or a soft tissue person.

More than just like a personal trainer or a coach. Like they're invested. They probably have a $6,000 road bike or I don't know, their golf bag is nicer than anything else. They buy naturally processed Ethiopian coffee. Right. They flew into Ethiopia to get it themselves. Yeah. They got everything from the cup of excellence. Yeah. And so I think you got to decide who's going to like be the quarterback on that play and what's going to be best for that and then have a conversation about it. And sharing philosophies and overlap is making sure there's enough overlap there that you can feel 100% confident on whatever is happening.

And that's going to be person to person. But if you're looking for people to talk to about that, the students that graduated from NHI are probably the best. Got it. Yeah. So you manage the Equinox? Yeah. So I manage the spa department. What kind of conversation do those therapists have with trainers maybe? Yeah. That was actually pretty much my job. Good. There's a big realm here you can speak about. Yeah. So I worked for Equinox for about five years, all said and done. I started off as a massage therapist there when my ex and I split up. I had to close the practice and start over. And it was the only place where you're working with an athletic population where people had the time and the money to invest themselves in a vested interest.

If you're paying close to $300 a month to show up to a gym, you clearly care about what you're trying to accomplish when you're there. And I know the power of tissue work and how important it can be for people to get to their goals, especially when most people leave a gym after 90 days because of some type of inflammatory response or lack of motivation. Right. So I don't know what comes first. Probably. I don't know. They've got a year contract. They're spending money. I don't know if it's a time commitment. I don't know. I think some of that is they don't actually believe that they're worth investing in themselves.

Like they're going to look silly for having done all that work. So kind of like starting or they're fit of failure or they're there. They just don't have. They didn't. They didn't make the improvement within first. Maybe. Yeah. Self-worth. It all comes down to self-worth. Yeah. So I was there hanging out. I started off as a massage therapist and I was doing ART and SFMA screens prior to all of my sessions. Right. And then doing the ART as a treatment and then looking for every tool that I could find to fill in the gaps in my ability and knowledge. And I'd been a trainer before, so I understood it could speak that language.

So my whole business model when I was there, because Equinox has millionaires walking around and they have really highly motivated, educated professionals walking around. And then they're like, hang out. Good luck. Enjoy yourself. And so it's a great way to learn how to be an entrepreneur because you have a lot of freedom to interact with whoever and however you want in a way that can feed your business and get them results. How did, uh, what's, what, what's maybe like the first big learning lesson that you had at Equinox then if you were encountering all these people? Hmm. I really thought that I was playing catch up on the state of the art of the field when, you know, it'd been five years of me doing body work and I was like, oh, SFMA.

Oh, I got to play. This has been around forever. Like I was like, oh, I'm so far behind, like with my knowledge base and then working with a general population in that setting, I realized how far actually that how inaccurate that was and how far the general population is unaware of what is going on with their body and how to make improvements at all and how interconnected their body is and how much that matters to their ability to perform anything and everything that they're trying to accomplish in the gym. It's, it's interesting that, uh, I've, I've definitely noticed too, that this was actually part of the reason for creating the podcast was that my mission was that when people walk in knowing much more than like the basics of rest, ice, heat, all that kind of stuff, then I'll feel like my job is done.

You know, you know, if they're not, you know, you know, if they're not, you know, if they realize that their shoulder function is related to their mid back or their shoulder blade, even like hopefully we got one more piece of the puzzle here. Um, but I think you're right. I think they're very unaware, um, except if they already had a condition before and then all of a sudden they become aware and that's our job to educate them, I guess. Um, nice. So why'd you leave there? Uh, I am a very impatient and obsessive person. Now I'm analyzing you to figure out what have we done already? What have we talked about already to make it seem like you're obsessive?

Yeah. Uh, and, and so the pace that I wanted to move everybody along at versus the pace to move that large of a company that's been around for 25 plus years and has, you know, a hundred locations and I'm just one person and I'm working with a lot of different personality types. I realized that I was working on the wrong end of the problem. Like when Prius came out, you know, George Clooney was driving one, so it was hip and cool. And so I felt like Equinox was going to be that for changing people's perspective about what's possible through body work, how much better their life could be. They don't need to spend hours on Friday night at the ER having some random guy touch their testicles.

You didn't get his name and number. He's completely ran. Never saw him again. It was a one night situation. Yeah. Um, and so my goal is to make sure that people don't have that same experience. And so there's, that is not the only answer. It's not even the best answer. It's not the most direct answer. And by the time it'd gotten to that point, like the fact that I was so unaware as a lay person of other options was just like horrific to me that you could fix something that I've been experiencing for three years and five minutes. I was like, what the, that's just so unbelievable to me. Um, and so I thought that'd be a good place to change that.

That was like a great opportunity to offer an alternative and educate really highly educated, highly motivated. People that could afford to do that. And I feel like maybe I was working on the wrong end of the problem with working there because at a certain point you're creating both the supply and the demand. Go ahead. You're creating the supply for the people that can do that work and provide that service by hiring, training, developing that staff. And then you also have to teach them how to create the sales process and education process for those people because they don't know it exists either.

And that's a tough job when you're usually talking to people that aren't talkers in the basis of the perception of what it means to get a massage. And so there's no flavor for Wanda single roast cold brew when it comes to body work. And so that creating that process has been a much bigger undertaking than I first thought it would be. How easy did you think it was? Like what kind of steps do you think? Like originally you're like, this is going to be so easy. I'll just teach them this, this, and this. Yeah. You know, passive, active, flexion, extension, rotation. Like, okay, this is it. And then touch.

All right, great. We're good here. Right? Look how dramatic this changed. Now you can squat more. You can press more. You could run further. You have less pain. You're way more stable. Like we can improve your strength in a matter of moments. Right? That seemed like a pretty good convincing like argument. But then, and you can demonstrate it. Right? Well, did you, did you find more resistance from the therapist or the, or the people or the, uh, clients? Uh, more from the therapist because it, it highlighted a lot of. Things that they had forgotten or decided that they weren't going to incorporate into their practice.

It required them having to think about the client outside of what the experience was on the table. And so it changed kind of what they thought they would, their process looked like. And people are really married to their experiences. And so it's hard to kind of open their mind and change it. And then the hard part, I think a lot about that is now they're like, oh, that is out there. That is different. That is real. Oh, am I the type of person that can do that? And then you butt up a lot against people's insecurities. And I think that was pretty apparent. So you're, so in a place where you're supposed to be creating a system, there's people who are not willing to be part of the system.

Is that what, is that what it sounds like? Kind of. Oh, I didn't get that close. You didn't get the system down. I proved the model that I could be successful on a small scale and then expanded it. And then everybody that we had that was along for the ride did phenomenally well. Yeah. And there was this belief that those people were innately skilled and that other general people couldn't get up to that skill. Like they thought it was talent versus practice. I think that's kind of how it goes with most professions. It's, uh, I, I had, I had a girl in the other day, just yesterday, and, um, she came in with a knee problem.

She had pain around the patellar tendon. She was, uh, she'd already seen, seen four people. She'd gone, done an MRI and the MRI was negative. And so it was, and then, um, we did a couple, one test was, was very revealing on here. I just grabbed her in around the pelvic ring and just crushed her together. Just like tried to solidify that, that point to create some stabilization. Um, she immediately, her pain went away and she's like, what the hell? You know, like, and so they, they called me after, like I wrote, I usually do a dictated whole synopsis, email it to the person. I didn't get to do it yet.

So they, they called me and they're like, I don't understand really what happened. I don't understand why this is working. Is it some magic? Is it some voodoo? It's like, no, it's just mechanics. But, um, I, but I think it's, it's, it's again, it's that it's, they think there's, I think, I think the clients or maybe the, like you said, the therapists think that there's just skilled versus unskilled. But I think there's definitely, they can all get there. Absolutely. Just education. Like I'm a professional people patter and we're having this conversation. There's nothing, I'm just an obsessive, curious person, but the information is out there.

It's just not known yet. Yeah. And I'm just shocked every time by that. Cause I'm just like, this is amazing, impactful stuff. Yeah. The fact that this isn't, people just aren't aware of it. I, it still blows my mind. Yeah. I'm amazed too. I really am amazed. The, um, so when Cody left, they, they had all done those presentations at Equinox's. So I would, I was thinking what a good, this kind of reminds me of what you're saying already with the therapist, but now this would be with the trainers. I thought it'd be an amazing experience to have, bring all the trainers and I'll go there. And I've already talked to a couple of people about this there.

So they're open to having, it sounds like, but I would love to have someone with say a knee condition or hip one. And then we figure out the strategy, which works. And then we just get all the trainers, just figure out how would you, in your own unique way, how would you cue this to get this person to feel better immediately? And I, I would like them to learn from each other. And I feel like it would provide, it wouldn't really provide a system, but it would, uh, it would, I think it would definitely empower the trainers. But then there still might be that realm of gifted, ungifted thing. There's a lot of insecurities when you're in a group setting like that.

And I think as the, I mean, if you look at videos, like there's this video that's floating around the internet and sorry, global, local, global, local, uh, real quick. I apologize. No. Yeah, we should, we should do it. Do it. Okay. So JFK has got this video where it's like the fear. There's nothing to fear, but fear itself in our country and blah, blah, blah, blah speech. Right. And it's in 1950s or whatever video. And it's these guys and it's showing a high school athletic class. And what they're doing as the high school, just 16 year old boys for their athleticism. And it looks more intense than what CrossFit's doing now that we like rally around and against and for and all the trauma around that.

And yet these 16 year old kids, that was just par for core as high school. And we're so deconditioned relative to that part that as the population changes, the general population's athletic ability is degraded from that. And flag that was planted back then to what it is now, um, as a personal trainer, there's a lot more stuff you have to deal with. You're not just writing a strength and conditioning program that people are following. You're having to do corrective exercises. You're having to do mobility work and tissue work and all this stuff. And there's this interesting thing where at a certain point you feel like you're probably out of your scope than you probably are.

And it's hard to admit that because there's a lot of people that are new to the field. They're trying to pay their bills. They got people that love and care and respect them and trust them. Um, and so it's tough as a trainer. I feel like to kind of navigate that ethically and also still get people results that they're looking for. I agree. And admit that there's something that they don't know or that they shouldn't be handling or that they don't want to handle. But they also don't want to lose that client. Yeah, I think, I think that comes down. I know that I just wrote an article recently about this, uh, that the tools that I had early on in practice, it was mainly I did active release as it was like, kind of like you, it was just like broken femur, ART it, it'll work.

It didn't work. What the hell, you know? So, but then, but then recognition of the other tools that they need was a whole different skills that I needed to build. And then if I chose to, to learn that skill or not, it doesn't mean the person doesn't need it or not. So if, if they need it, I need to refer them out. But then that takes me feeling like, okay, this person might only have a certain amount of money to spend on healthcare. Maybe they won't be wanting to be my client anymore. I got to pay some bills, you know? So I, I think, I think, uh, recognition of what the person needs and then feeling confident enough to delegate it out or, or refer it out and just have that communication that when they're ready to come back to you, they should.

Or maybe co-managing, you know? And I think the skill you actually learned wasn't these modalities or these other external things outside of you. It was actually a skill knowing that like, look, there's more than enough people that need my help. Right. With the skills I have. That even if I just did this all the time forever, I would never help everybody that needs my help. There's totally, there's way more people in pain and discomfort that need help than there are people to help them. Yeah. And I think the, the fact that no one even knows some of the stuff even exists is perfect proof of that, that we're actually doing a crappy job as providers.

Right. That no one actually knows. And so that's why I'm excited that we're here to happen in this conversation. Hopefully that helps. Right. But I do feel like that the skill you had was changing that mindset and then being open to all of those possibilities. And then now seeing what's come of it, all this collaboration and these ideas and like, it's not a zero sum game. It's not. And switching from that mindset is where you see dramatic shifts, like in your own personal client results, but then also in your collaborative efforts and your network grows and everybody you can help. And the extra fun part about that is you get to deal with a thing that you're the best at, like almost better than anybody else.

Right. That's the most fun part of what it is that you do. That is the only thing you actually really give a shit about doing in the first place. Yeah. You don't want to go into the other stuff anyways. Yeah. You're like, I really only did this so I could do this one thing. And then now I have to do 50 other things that I hate or am not good at or I'm insecure about. And the reality is you don't have to do all those. You just have to feel comfortable sharing that client with whoever else is good at that. I just want to be a scribe. I just want to write notes. That's why I got into this business.

Oh, I hate paperwork. I'm so bad at it. So it's my least favorite thing. So you just mentioned like dictating to an email to have it go. Right. Oh, I'm going to invest in some software for that. You know, Mac has them for free. Do they? Okay. I think you just go on to dictate. You search on the little, what is that? A magnifying glass for dictation. And then it's a real quick download. But funny, like it doesn't work extremely well for me because I slur and I mumble. And then for a period of time, it was working really well. I'm like, this shit is great. And then just yesterday, I'm like, what the hell?

I said femur and it says like fem, her, or I'm like, those aren't even words that go together in that sentence structure. Why are you putting that on there? So every update you have to like kind of recalibrate the system? It actually hasn't even asked me to. I would love to train it, but it hasn't asked me to yet, but I have been lazy enough where I haven't looked either. Yeah. But actually it's, it's fairly good, but then I have to, I have to look at it. I can't just like look around the room and start chatting and it'll just show up. But dictation. I'm also bad at editing. So that would be the problem.

We're like, you know, I don't know if you've looked into this. This is a little bit hard for, I don't know how to, how do you guys have patient privacy? Uh, we're not part of HIPAA. It's all cash-based and it's all like advocational vocational. So we have a lot more freedom. You're so lucky. I would easily get a virtual assistant and just like dictate it all to them, make them type it, send it right back and just input it into the, the, the software program, not even touch it again if I could, but then it can't go to them. Is there a HIPAA compliant third-party system out there yet? Um, I don't know for that.

There might, there might be. Anybody listening? Uh, you know, the trouble though, the trouble though is they're probably going to, so for transcription, I get it. Uh, so Ronnie's probably listening. Ronnie's the transcriber for me. Um, she does it at, I think we're doing it for about 50, uh, I won't, I won't repeat that Ronnie. Cause I know that, um, I, I've referred a couple people to work with you. I don't want to set your price, but, um, other places are really expensive, really, really expensive. And I would imagine anytime that it's HIPAA based, it jumps the price like double, right? Just for them to deal with the compliance and all that good that you have to pay lawyers for that part of it.

Right. I know there's all the hidden costs that they'll have, but yeah, if anyone's listening, if you are a lawyer and you also want to create a product and you have a business savvy guy, it's, I mean, you put four people in a room together, you could set that up. It'd be a million dollar business inside of six months. So we need, uh, we need a, uh, a medical person of some type. We need a lawyer, a transcriber and we need a coder, HTML coder or something like that. Love developer. Yeah. And then we need a salesperson to market the crap out of that. Right. And then we need someone to then collect money from the people buying.

Yep. We need a lot of things. I mean, it's six people, right? It's six people. It's a million dollar business. They started Facebook off at two people, didn't they? Already ahead. Yeah. So we've already been going for a while. I've, I've loved our conversation. Great. Um, what do you think we need to cover? What are you excited about with massage? I don't want to say just massage. What are you excited about in your realm of the world? So, uh, that moment that I mentioned, right, where I made that off color joke and the shoulder pain disappeared, just bringing up the memory that was associated with that, uh, physical perception that was living in the body tissue.

So flashback to like 30 minutes ago, I guess. I'm still considering, I'm like, Hmm, I, like I've, I don't edit anything really. Yeah. I'm wondering if I should edit or just bleep through the part because it'll, it might strike a chord with one person. I don't want to deal with the emails. Yeah. But I don't know. You can totally bleep it. Uh, I feel, uh, I, I tell that joke one for two reasons. It changed my life. Right. Um, cause it just as having my pectinous release changed my life, that moment changed my life because it changed my perception of what we were actually touching when we were doing tissue or body work.

And a lot of stuff that doesn't change when you're putting your hands on somebody or you're cueing somebody, you're taking through strength training stuff. It's not the thing you're touching, but it's not something that's above or below that joint. It's not something that's like a suture somewhere else that's affecting it. It's a perception that's based upon encoded in environmental awareness and concepts and mental processes like beliefs, ideas, and it's tied to proprioception. Um, and that changed my life. And so I tell that because it's the segue to the rest of my work that I do now, but it also shows like how insensitive I am and how common that is.

Right. And that's horrific in the first place. It's not a joking matter. Uh, doesn't mean that the humor isn't there, but it's definitely not a joking matter and it's pretty serious. Right. And it's, it's pretty paramount. And so I feel like that is an education moment for anybody else who's listening that it's that common and that sad. And we need to work on that as people. There's probably, I mean, there's probably a lot of, uh, life experiences that we can't really, we can't really assume how the person translated them. And it could be something as simple as like someone stepped on their toes and they just didn't like it.

And, uh, I, how do, I don't know how we're supposed to know. Really? You're not. That's right. There's that chance. Right. And arrogant bastard beer is a mistake that stone brewing made and it changed the world of beer. So like mistakes are good. That's where we innovate. And so that was a mistake I made and it changed my career. And what I found out is oftentimes people have emotional trauma that may be tied to physical trauma, like a car accident or something. And their pain may be triggered by being in a similar environment. So if they're in that same Toyota Camry that they got in a car wreck in and it got the Toyota Camry got repaired and their tissues and structures are repaired supposedly, but then they get back in that driver's seat and they're at that same intersection.

They'll have the same symptoms that they had as if that accident happened to that same day. And it's not everybody and it's not all the time. Um, and it could even be someone who does experience that, but doesn't experience it every day. They only experience it like on a Friday or like every other month or something. And so there's all these cofactors in someone's life, their, their actual internal experience of what's happening in the world that they move in and that can trigger pain too. And so it's interesting working through that. So that's where that biopsychosocial model comes in. They're interconnected.

There's no separation between those in my mind. So how do you identify that? Unless you go through every scenario they possibly could add. Yeah. I start with a low lying fruit and work through it. And oftentimes, you know, in massage therapists will talk about this a lot. Oh, I'm touching their knee and they told me some story about when they were six and they have no reason why they're telling me this story. Oh, really? It's just inherently comes out. It just comes out. Hmm. Yeah. And that's not always, that's not always, right? But it's often enough that it's a, it's a, it's an antidotical story that comes up that people talk about it.

Yeah. I've always wondered why massage therapists always get birthday gifts of over a hundred dollars or sorry, Christmas presents of over a hundred dollars. And it's because they, I think that maybe the people feel more connected to them than, than the, the a-holes who spend 15 minutes. Well, and I think that's, goes back to our point about being personable or being professional. If surgeons can have a good bedside manner and their insurance premiums are less, if you're a personal trainer or a massage therapist and you're trying to be professional and you're not being personable, you're an asshole.

It's not what people are paying you for. Yeah. Uh, I think, I think I might've mentioned this with a coffee story, but the, I, I felt that when in that, in that before coffee realm, I felt like I wasn't being an honest person with my patients or people that I met. And at some point it's like, if you're being guarded throughout your, your life and your daily life and your work routine, how long until that transfers into like who you actually are? Like it's, it's part of you. So it's like, okay, so I, I don't want to practice this way. I don't want patients to perceive me this way and they're not going to get better if I'm not real with them, but then you're not supposed to be real with them.

You know, so it's, it's a, it's a fine line, but it's just my, my thought on it. But you, uh, you're a sole proprietor, you're an entrepreneur, right? Right. So you get a, you get to set the culture of the people that walk in your door and the people that don't want to be a part of hanging out with you don't have to be. And that's their choice. I try to offend them within the first five minutes to let them know what's coming. And, uh, I'm sure some of your audience has seen Jerry Maguire, right? And you have a, a similar, uh, Tom Cruise look here. That's cause you're just seeing me over the, over the, over the microphone.

No, I, yeah. It's, it's funny. It's funny you say that there's a, there's a, there's an episode that, that we had, I want to say it was around like 75 or was with a friend who he was on before and there, I always get Tom Cruise, uh, who is Christian Bale and Ben Stiller. And one more, I forget what it is. So, okay. There, so there was a whole spiel. He went like, he wouldn't even, he wouldn't even go into the, into the topic until he just reamed on me for 10 minutes about the people that I did and did not look like. Um, but he, he said that the Christian Bale one will work. Yeah. Christian Bale, I can see it.

Yeah. Uh, Batman, Christian Bale. Yeah. But yeah, so he said, he said more under the microphone though. He's like, you got the jib. Oh, I like that. Yeah. That's funny. Like bat dad. Yeah. Bat dad. That's great. I hope that guy's making lots and lots of money. Cause I've laughed at him a lot and he deserves money for that. I don't know if he got it or not, but good for him. We should, we should check and see. We should just email bat dad. Yeah. Be like, how much money are you making off that? But, uh, in that Jerry Maguire example, it's like, show me the money. Right. And he had to make a decision of whether he wanted to go and continue to be an asshole with his clients and his agents that he was saying, or if you want to be a genuine person and actually care about people and he decided to care.

And I think that was the whole moral of that movie. And you are in a position where you're showing up and trying to care for people. And that requires you to actually be a person because you can't care for someone if you're not a person first. Damn it. Robots can't replace you because robots can't care. I don't know. In Westworld, they started to know. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see. I don't have HBO. So I have yet to see Westworld. You're not missing much. I don't think. All right. I got through part of it and I'm like, I don't need to see this anymore. It's one of those shows where you give it multiple chances.

I'm like, people said it's good. So you're not missing much. Okay. However, The Good Place is amazing. Is that also HBO? No. That one, well, that one's Netflix. Okay. I'll watch that then. That's good. Yeah. I'm due for a new series. If you like, if you like, uh, not 50 first days. What's that one? Ah, damn it. Forgetting. So if you like forgetting Sarah Marshall, you'll like it. Oh, I love forgetting Sarah Marshall. Actually, my girlfriend's name is Sarah and her Instagram handle is forgetting Sarah Bookman because she like thinks that movie is hilarious and she's not wrong. And it's super, the scene where he's like, look, we can't, you can't break up with me.

I'm naked. Right. She's like, put some clothes on. We need to have a serious conversation. He's like, no, because then you're going to break up with me. As soon as I put my clothes on, I know it's over. I know it's over. Like that scene is like the most, I don't, I love that scene. That's super funny. I would, I would love, not to say I want you guys to ever break up, but if you do, can you please do that scene? And she'll be like, you know, I have to give him a second chance. He knows so much about me. She would. Yeah. That would sink the deal right there. We'd be set for life. Yeah. Um, anything else you'd like to cover?

Cause I know we're, we're ticking. We went through a bunch. Yeah. I think we went through a bunch. So, uh, let me talk a little bit about what my solution is for that biopsychosocial. Do it. And I think this is weird. So I'm super excited to talk about this. It's actually my first time talking about this. Like, okay. A hundred percent. Okay. In reality here. So, uh, alter reality. There's a lot of people that are confused about what pain is and how to affect it and where it's coming from. And there's a bunch of neuroscience and psychologists and all those guys. And the biopsychosocial model talks about that and the discovery of it.

The science is still out and client education. And some people don't even touch their patients anymore because of that. I feel like when we're talking about the belief system and the mental processes, that that is where there's the biggest inroads to be made. And then if you talk to psychologists, they're like, well, talk therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy and EMDR and EFT and all these different things are kind of effective. And then also not. And like the studies are still out on that. And so I'm not going to go to school and get a master's as of yet just to be able to do that. Just like I didn't go and become a chiropractor or a doctor.

I could see you as a PhD though, really. It'd be fun. Yeah, we'll see. Right. I love learning and I love sharing what I learned. So in the same way that I went and got a license to touch, I'm now able to be addressing those concerns through hypnotherapy, which is kind of unique. It's super fun. So people in hypnotherapy, it's actually proven, there's some studies out there that it works with fibromyalgia with people that are in pain. And that to me, it was like the convincing, I'd like enrolled in a school and I read all their research papers for like, I don't know, 20 hours before I was like, this is real.

I was like, this is, I was like, oh, this is kind of, they're like, we'll give you your money back after like a month if you don't like it or not. And I was like, okay, great. So I just went through and did all the research I could. In one month. I was like, all right, I got to get, I got to decide if I'm all in or not on this. And at the end of the reading, all that they had hypnotized me into at least believing that it was a viable solution for people. That I like that. That is a good, they have a good business model, don't they? Not everybody does that. So at the end I was, I was more sold than some of the instructors on the power of hypnotherapy.

And I've had an opportunity to use that in my practice. And it's been amazingly impactful for a lot of people that have seen a lot of different providers that haven't seen results. And so I don't know if I'm crazy or if they're crazy or if we're all crazy, but I've really only ever cared about results and practical application. And so it's been really rewarding and really fun to work with people in that aspect. So how does, how does that look when someone comes in? Because I know probably similar to massage and chiropractic people walk or they'll hear about this suggested solution and then they'll have a preconceived notion of what's going to happen.

Like a watch going in front of them. Yeah. Or like the new one is from the movie, get out with like the tea. Here I can do like a little sound effect. It's like a metronome tea. Like they're, she bangs her spoon against her tea as the induction to get the guy to drop into hypnosis and then terrible, horrible, scary things happen. If you haven't seen the movie, get out. It's worth, it's worth a watch. It's a pretty good horror movie. I'm guessing it's not HBO. It's not HBO yet. I think, I don't know if it's been released. It won awards. It's great. It's won Key and Peele. And so they're like comedic geniuses.

And then this guy drives, makes a horror movie. That's just super on topic. It's great. So people are scared about that. Some, some terrible stuff happens, but really what it is, is hypnosis is a state of learning. So when you drive somewhere and you're distracted by thoughts in your mind, but you still arrive safely and you don't remember showing up, but you're there. That was a hypnotic state before you fall asleep every night, you'd travel through hypnosis before you get to deep sleep. And so it's just a natural brainwave state. But when you're in that state, you're more suggestible than you are to other things because you're no longer using the critical part of your mind to analyze everything.

And there's this interesting notion that the subconscious mind is actually a larger root driving force of everything in our life. And that the conscious mind is only 12% versus the 88%. And I feel like that comes out a lot when we look at proprioception. So like if I'm walking in the forest and I get a snake bite, but I think it's a scratch and I don't notice till I get to base camp that my legs ballooned up and I get airlifted out to get treated for the snake venom. Great. But then if I'm walking in a similar forest and I actually get scraped by a branch this time because I've had that traumatic experience in the past, now when I look down at my leg at base camp, it will also be ballooned up even though it was just a scratch.

And that's a normal, healthy response of the body. And it's all subconscious. You're not thinking the body to do that. It just happens and it's protective and it's good for us. And I feel like that phenomenon comes up a lot for people, especially around pain and especially around stories of trauma in their past life. And so reassociating those beliefs or those ideas or those associations through perception is one thing. And there's some encounter receptor guys that just work on that. And it's pretty wild and fascinating. But I also feel like if you change that, but you don't change the traumatic emotional attachment to that story and what that meant to be airlifted out of the helicopter, you might be missing some of the bigger picture there.

And I think hypnotherapy is a good tool to kind of reassociate those subconscious processes. So then when in a session of taking someone through that, do you suggest how they should interpret it? Or do you just let them kind of be in the state and then reevaluate the situation maybe? And yeah, I think that is an awesome question. Thank you for asking that. It really is. It gets to the heart of it. You're not doing anything as a hypnotherapist. You're letting that person sort out that stuff. So everybody has a belief about something because it served them well and it proved correct enough for them to believe it.

And so they're just operating on that presumption or belief until it's challenged and it no longer serves them well. And then they have to decide to choose how to do something different or they get to continue to try the same thing and just beat the crap out of themselves head over head, which was me with running and drinking. But yeah, so you have to decide to grow or like you, right? When you were like, man, this tool isn't enough anymore. People aren't getting as good as I need to, I need to change something. And I felt like you changed your mindset where you were open to be able to work differently than you were before and expand your practice and even set up this podcast and, you know, you're a completely different person now than you were before because of that belief system change.

And so when you're in that actual session, most of the time during the cognitive portion of the session, people are going to tell you how they would rather actually consciously want to feel about whatever the situation is. And then when they're in hypnosis, you're just reflecting back to them what they told you they wanted to feel. Okay. What if, what if in there, I don't know if this ever happens. Yeah. What if what they say they wish they felt about the situation actually is detrimental? Yeah. Great question. There is some interesting stuff where people are like, oh, like, um, what's the movie with Jim Carrey where they delete memories.

Spotless sunshine on the spotless mind. There we go. I didn't see that one. Uh, Kate Winslet, Jim Carrey, they're in a, uh, Vata relationship. She decides that she's going to erase him from her memory. And he's so hurt tragically that he decides to erase her from his memory. And people are like trying to zap memories. Hmm. It's like a twisted version of 51st States. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. It's a fun movie to watch. Uh, and, uh, you're not doing that in both of you. You're not changing anything. You're just changing the association around it. So a lot of people are super anxious or stressed.

And if you're in a hyper relaxed state, and then you bring up something that normally stresses you out, you can't feel both relaxed and anxious at the same time. And because you're in that theta alpha state, you can no longer feel anxious about it. And if you don't feel anxious about it, you can choose to feel how you want to feel instead of always just being triggered that response that you used to have. So if I hate vegetables, for example, because I remember my grandma making me eat vegetables at her house when she was babysitting and I gagged on the green peas and then I put them on my napkin and threw them in the toilet.

And now anytime I see a green pea, I have that memory and I'm just like, this sounds like a real experience. Really? How do you want to feel about that green pea? Yeah. You know, I like them now. They're great. And to change that, we do this all the time, you know, tastes change, beliefs change, they get upgraded from Folgers to Rwanda, right? But it takes time to do that. And it's just a subtle associations and repetition and all that fun stuff. Same thing with training and cueing and changing movement patterns. It's the same idea. So when someone's going through a process of that, then is there actually two parts?

Number one, is there a troubleshooting process that you have to go through as a, as a provider? Um, and second is, is I think you just answered this, but it doesn't stick on the first time it has to stick as usually sticks as time goes on. Yeah. So repetition is the name of the game with everything, right? I mean, you're training out dysfunction and movement patterns. Um, there's lots of different ways to go at it. Right. Um, and I feel like we're all as providers working from our own area of where it's fun for us and we're excited and passionate to get people to see and feel change. And they're looking for something that works for them.

Right. And I feel like we're all working on the same thing from different ends and repetition. If you say something about drive your hips together and you're going to feel more stable and have more strength and they have some weird association when they fell and like they twisted their tailbone or something. And then someone's like getting that tone down through like, you know, manual therapy directly on it and then someone else is over there talking about, remember that time you fell and you were so ashamed. And then every time they feel shame, their tailbone triggers because that's associated in their mind and they see a hypnotherapist for that.

We're all doing the same shit and it's all the same actual responses in the body. They're all tied to each other. We're just trying to piece them out from each other and all of them work over time. If we're all doing it together, it'd probably take a lot less reps. So when you said earlier that you haven't shared this yet, how come? What's the hesitation or the maybe just didn't get to it yet? Yeah, this is pretty new for me. So I've been doing since November, I've been kind of messing around with this idea of maybe there's more to this than meets the eye. Maybe it's not something we can actually touch.

Maybe it's a story that people tell and the way they tell that story or the way that they took that information and to tell that story is where we can make a change and it might be more impactful that way. All right. Well, if that's true, how do you go about doing that? Right. Is that traditional psychotherapy? Is it cognitive behavioral therapy, which is once again, training out dysfunction over time, interrupting response patterns and habits? Is there something more effective than that? And how do you know if it is or not? And then it takes me a long time to read. I love reading and I read a lot, but it still takes me a long time.

Well, you're good at translating so far from all the legalese that biopsychosocial articles are all about. So I studied philosophy in my undergrad and you have to speak a philosopher's language because they don't speak to people. They only speak to themselves and then expect everyone else to figure it out. That does make sense. It's pretty bad. Like artists do the same thing. Yeah, they do. And so I always hated that. And then the people that study them, they only talk to other people that have also studied them like, oh, I only speak to other people that love Heigl or, you know, con. And I always really thought that that was like, they're kind of like assholes.

Yeah. Like I want you to look at me as the topic. Yeah. And I appreciated like the rigor that it took to be so versed in this ancient thought. But the application of that for people is where the real magic is. And if you're talking in a language that people don't understand, it just goes back to bedside manner. Right. If you're talking to someone like that, they're in trouble. You're not helping them. The only person you're helping is yourself. And that's not really, you're probably going to actually do a shitty job at it. And you're going to be out of business pretty soon. Right. I could just imagine what that would look like if the patient goes into someone's office and in the exam, the doctor's just doing a monologue in the corner.

And often, so, and I can only speak to this because I'm pretty, I was pretty guilty of this. So when I was first a trainer, I was so excited about like all of the plan that I had for that person based upon what they said their goals were, that all they would do was talk about the plan instead of how it would help that person. And for other people that were into the plan, like I was, they were like, yeah, this is great. But that was like two people out of 50 people. So I was usually, yeah. And they were already trainers themselves. Right. So it was like a waste of time and it wasn't really helping people.

So it took me a long time to realize how to map that over. Right. Take my disdain for these professors and the language that they use. And then realized I was doing it myself. And that's why I was so angry at them and then realized that was terrible business and it wasn't helping anybody. And so I try to do that as much as I can. And my girlfriend helps me a lot. Anytime that I'm like in my own head about stuff, she's like, that was pretty terrible. You should fix that. When are you going to speak to me about this and just stop speaking out loud to yourself? A hundred percent. Yeah. I think a lot of providers, no matter what they're into, because they're super passionate, they end up talking to themselves in front of a patient.

Yeah. I think there's been a push recently with at least a lot of the people I've interacted with where they recognize that the science and research and application and clinical stuff, it's lagging so far behind in public knowledge that there's like certain people who are taking the responsibility of breaking it down in a patient friendly way. And from what I've noticed about speaking with them is, and even me with some of my hesitation with the way I present things on this podcast and my articles is like when I say it a certain way in a very simple term, it doesn't really do the theory justice.

So the clinicians would think you're so full of shit, you know, like, cause you didn't back up this, this and that and say it in the right terms, but it's, it's not about us. It's about the people we're helping. And I'm glad there's a lot more people out there that are, that are digesting it down. And although we might not be doing the research, we're, we're still helping, I think more than just the researchers helping the 10 people who are reading their article or the philosophers. So, yeah, it's only helpful if you can apply it and if we're not applying it and seeing what works and what doesn't, then there's actually no research being done.

Right. And the hard part is, is with like manual care, it's really hard to have a gold standard study because there's no such thing as sham touch. It doesn't, doesn't work. There's no double blindness available there. So our gold standard of evidence of what proof constitutes is inherently flawed when it comes to manual therapy. And you can't also fake talk to somebody. Right. So like anytime we're talking about talk interventions or cognitive behavioral therapy and all that stuff, like it's really hard to get a gold standard study. I think it's interesting too, the, the, I think the research has found a lot of things that like you said, low bearing fruit that seemed to work.

We're kind of mostly all on board with that, but then they started advancing all these other things. And I think most of America does not eat broccoli. You know, they know at this point, broccoli is good for them, organic, unorganic, whatever. I don't care. But it's like, we know it's kind of there. And I feel like all the low bearing fruit is not being applied anyways. So why are we advancing past that? It's just like, that's just for like tinkering with the special populations that like have already implemented all the low bearing fruit. Right. So, and I, and I, in hypnotherapy, a lot of people think it's like mind control.

And the funny part is, is it's actually the exact opposite of that, because if you want to put undue influence into somebody, you're going to deprive them of sleep. You're going to fuck with their blood glucose levels so that they're all over the place. And then you're going to create an inherent threat that they actually have no control over. And then that person's going to be in trouble. And if you look at our society, that's it. Like that's everybody. Like you're not good enough. You don't have enough money. You suck. If you only could afford to buy this stuff, you'd be great, but you can't.

So work harder. Oh, don't put yourself first. Don't get any sleep. Oh, you're so stressed out from working that you need to have a ton of coffee, which is going to spike your blood glucose levels. And then they're going to crash. And then, oh, now you need more sugar to get you going, get you going. And then it's just never, you're just on that continual cycle, which is an inherent threat that you can never get out of. And then it's no wonder that people are in pain and broken and hurting. And so, you know, hypnotherapy is like, hey, let's take a nap and not be so anxious about all this stuff you can't fucking control.

And let's eat protein every three hours and see what happens. Or we can switch their shitty coffee out for a good coffee. And I think we've solved the world's problems. There you go. There's no reason to add cream and sugar to a good coffee. And I think there's a lot of people that are like, oh, I love coffee. And I'm like, oh, what do you drink? And they try it. And I'm like, oh, okay. I'm glad you enjoy coffee. And I'm nodding and winking right now for the audience. Yeah. Believe me, I've had this conversation so many times where I don't even try to change their mind anymore. Well, if you ask, I think a simple way to frame that, to find out the information without being a jerk is, oh, what's your favorite creamer?

And if someone responds with a frame of creamer, you now know where you stand and what's going on. And yeah. Yeah. Well, walking into a coffee shop, like I used to look around, I'm like, is there syrups? Is there hopper oily? Or do they have pour overs somewhere? Not that I'll buy the pour over, but you don't pour over crappy coffee. Yeah. And those are usually triggers for me of like, hmm, I'm going to try this place or not. Yeah. Well, and now Instagram is so nice. It just brings it all to you before you drive, so. Right. Yeah. Well, nice. I think we covered a lot. That was fun. I really enjoyed that.

Yeah. Thanks for letting me share. That was cool. Yeah. I had, we got tanned in it off so many times there, I'd forgotten to come back to the mystique portion of your whole Instagram handle is there's, it's LMT, SFMA, all these other things. And then there's hypno. And it's like, hmm, we should get to that. And you brought it in. Yeah. To me, it's just a natural extension. You know, it's just like, oh, this is something else that's practical that has an application that seems to work and get people moving better and out of pain. And it seems to be really direct. Like it seems to be working on sometimes on the source instead of the symptoms.

So it's pretty cool. How does everyone find you? My Instagram handle is the best way to find me. So it's gnosis therapy. So it's G N O S I S therapy, which is what's gnosis mean? Knowing of self. Yeah. Is that, uh, is that like a philosopher term? Yeah. That's an ancient Greek term of philosophy. Assholes. Yeah. So I had to sneak it in somehow. Right. Yeah. It works well. Cause it's a G. My name's G Garrett. Right. So it seemed to go well. Um, I tried a lot of different handles. That one was fun for me. How that stuck. Cause anytime anybody comes in, they're going to learn something that about themselves and hopefully that knowledge will help them live a better life.

Before we finish, actually, tell me what, tell me what the, I don't know what those are called. Little picture. What's a little picture on Instagram. Cause, uh, I don't have my phone here. It looks like you're a Heisman trophy winner. Oh yeah. So, um, I've never played football. I think I played flag football in intramural in, uh, elementary school and I clotheslined a guy during flag football. We had growth spurts, me and him. He was more athletically inclined than I was. I was just a big, big person at the time. And, uh, I was at my friend's wedding. They had a football for some reason we're throwing around.

And one of my friends is a photographer. So he shoots only on like 35 millimeter film. He's not a digital photographer. He thinks that's for pansies. He's old school. Uh, his name is Ian Gonzaga. His work is amazing. Um, so he's taking photos and it's the only photo I have of myself. And I was like, Oh, I guess I need a photo of myself. I don't like taking pictures of myself. I feel like a lot of that's tough and I don't, it's hard, right? So, um, it's the only one I have. So I have that one up and it's me throwing a football and I don't know how to throw a football. And so my girlfriend's pretty athletically inclined.

So she taught me how to throw a frisbee, kick a soccer ball, throw a football, throw a baseball, catch all of those things as well. Except for the soccer ball. They explained your recent post of it looks like I throw like a girl. Yeah. Uh, it's pretty interesting. I worked in the spa environment, right? She works in construction. So it was a nice, you know, it's interesting. Interesting dynamic. She can throw a pick. Uh, yeah, she can. Yeah. Well, right on. Thanks for being on. That was super fun. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah, man. Okay. That was the interview with Garrett Wood. Thanks so much, Garrett, for being on.

That was, uh, that was amazing. I had a great time talking to him. By the way, he did bring in some amazing coffee and some vegan donuts. I usually don't eat donuts, but I've never had a vegan donut. So thanks. Not everyone, uh, brings in little treats like that. That was a nice, uh, nice gesture. So if you're looking to contact Garrett, uh, the best way is on Instagram. That is at G-N-O-S-I-S therapy. Uh, check him out. He's got a lot of good things on there. Um, they're not just the boring posts. So the kind of posts that like you look at it and you're like, oh my God, this guy wrote a novel and he intended something to be behind this.

So I can tell he does pay a lot of good attention to his, uh, his Instagram. And then you see him holding a football and, uh, as he said, he, he's never really played football. So I wonder that when I first looked at his Instagram, like what the hell, why does he got a football picture up here? You know? So anyways, uh, just again, to, uh, frame that back again is remember the bleeping section. I want to make sure that everyone does take that in the light it was intended. And I muffled it to make sure that everybody is protecting their ear, their inner ears or their hearing from anything that might offend them.

But it is a critical part of the story of where he got. So that is just how life is. Uh, if you're looking for the show notes on this, this is session number 110. So go through the p2sportscare.com website and use the search function, either search for Garrett Wood, or you can go for 110, no hashtag, no number, just 110. You'll find it. And then any of the links that we referenced are going to be on there. Lastly, leave people better than how you found them. Data and Eagle Scout. And I'm sorry, this one went a long time, but as you can tell, good parts in there. Talk to you guys next week.