Communication Skills That Get People Doing Their Rehab

You don't get it. It's my pain. We don't want to go there. To avoid this kind of fight between your assumption and their assumption, you're kind of making it like a team effort of problem-solving things. So you consider what they're saying, we consider what you're saying, and we figure out. We just let the healing process reveal what works. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey, everyone. It's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host for the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for being part of the Movement Movement. By the way, if you're a listener, if you're a dedicated listener, you can dub yourself the Movement. You are part of the Movement. At some point, maybe I'll make T-shirts for that.

This is part two of an interview. It's the only part A, part B, or part 1, part 2 that I've ever done so far in 160-something episodes. And this is with Alex. He is someone who's going to choose to remain anonymous just because he works in social work. And he's put together some really great information on communication for the clinician, for our patients. And not to be manipulative with stuff. It's just trying to guide them to what their goals are and the tools and treatments that will work for them. So, he really doesn't have any big education in healthcare. It's just, as you can tell, a lot of the verbiage he uses, he's really doving in on a lot of the self-education tools that are out there, as well as he's read some clinical books.

I think he's read some of McGill's work. I think he's read Clinical Neurodynamics by Michael Shacklock. So, he's just generally interested in the stuff. And he has mentioned on the podcast that multiple times that he feels like he can really help. So, that's why I want to have him on the show today. If this is your first time in the podcast, again, the whole point is to improve communication between doctor and patient to improve success overall. If you have not been back in the archives, please do. The archives are literally full of amazing interviews and, hopefully, a couple of original ideas from myself.

I'm trying to curate the content so you guys don't really have to go anywhere else to really dabble in stuff that you might not know that actually exists. I've really matured as a clinician over the past 160 episodes, and I continue to do so. So, hopefully, you guys can follow me on this journey here. As always, I tend to share a little bit about myself via personal story just so you guys can get to know your host. This is not like a look-at-me type of thing. I just really want you guys to, hopefully, like me so that you follow me through this journey. Okay? So, we'll get on to that content, and we'll get right into the remainder of the interview.

Again, if you have not heard part one, go back and listen to last week's first, and then go to this one right after. Okay, one of my pet peeves for words is wanderlust. So, I remember one time I was talking to this barista, and I said, tell me about yourself. How did you end up here? And she's like, well, I'm a bit of a wanderlust. And I'm like, wanderlust? What the hell is that? And so, I looked it up. And so, wanderlust, I'll go through the definition here. Wanderlust is the strong desire to travel. And so, wanderlust is the lust or desire for wandering. And so, when people call themselves a wanderlust, they're hashtag wanderlust.

They're not really, it's not really a correct usage. All right? You're wanderlust-er. You're wanderlust-een. Don't call yourself a wanderlust. Crazy. Here we get into the content. Let's see if I can recap some of this stuff. There was a lot there. I'm going to act like a first patient is coming in today then. So, a thing that I think, based upon what you said, I need to improve on a little bit, is I think when I feel rushed, I don't get to people's goals quite as much and have this back and forth conversation about what are you looking for, what do you need, you know, what are you willing to do, what do you think it is, and so on.

And sometimes it's just, you just go through. Okay, so, go ahead and sit down. Actually, these are typically, they're follow-up people, they're not new people. They're like, they come in for a 30-minute appointment and they're like, hey, by the way, my hand is numb. I've never had that before. And you're like, oh, shit. Okay, I've got to do a whole workup on this person. And so, you just go a little bit, so you don't typically get all the goals. But I'm hoping those people have a little bit more trust and faith because they came back for another thing. So, I'm hearing is spend a little bit more time on really getting to know the person, what their goals are, what their beliefs are.

And then as we're starting to go into the problem or solution the problem, if they're attempting to, if they're resisting you a little bit, ask them what they would like to do, this or the other, your thing or my thing. And then when you decide on it, say it's our thing, and then send them home with that. If it doesn't work, say, are you willing to try the other thing? And if we read people with your – you said the runner who just wants to go run, then possibly we just realize that we're a tool in this process until we get to know them a little bit better. But if we have a Tracy, Tracy might just be looking for more relief and she doesn't want homework unless she comes to you for it and then you go in a little bit more active care.

Exactly. Okay. Did I reword appropriately? That would actually be – I don't know how it would translate it, but it would be a resume. Because rewording is about like one thing. Like you shared me a belief or you shared me an information, I'm giving it back to you. Like you summarized the whole hour of me displaying my tendency to do um. So that would be a resume because there's just more stuff, but that's totally it. Because I think that the focus – the thing that needs to be focused – I'll come back on a few things. For when they have like their own belief, their own assumption and yours, what you want to avoid to do is to make a contest of why my assumption is right versus yours.

Because they would just like – like on the biopsychosocial model of pain, like at that point, you're like totally, totally inflating like the psycho part of it. Because they're like, no, no, no, but I have symptoms. And now they start to focus on their symptoms and my neck hurts and they're going to like – they like become a team with their pain just to make sure. No, no, no, what I'm saying is right, doctor, all right? You don't get it. It's my pain and like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't want to go there. So to avoid this kind of fight between your assumption and their assumption, you're kind of making it like a team effort of a problem-solving thing.

So you consider what they're saying. We consider what you're saying and we figure out. We just let like the healing process reveal what works. And if like – for real, if it's not harmful and they want to keep doing like these – I don't know, like their nerve slide has totally no relevance, but it makes them feel good. It's the first thing they do in their routine. And after they do what you gave them as homework, who cares? Yeah, I agree. We're getting the output we want, right? They're showing – they're having the behavior required for them to take active part of their care, right? You're healing.

That's fine. For Tracy, the thing is, as you said, we'll start if the person arrives feeling overwhelmed. If you get – it's just not a good idea to put homework on top of it. It's already too much. That probably relates with how they're dealing with their physical sensation. You know, there's like – there's some people that like – they had pain in their back for like 20 years. They're like, blah. An old crotchety man? Yeah, they're just like, blah. I'm getting old. They will never go see a doctor. They're cool. They will not feel overwhelmed. But if you're kind of a little bit more anxious and you're in your head a lot and you're like, fuck, my finger hurts.

My finger hurts. And you're kind of obsessing with it. Yeah. It's how you live, how you deal with that that makes you get overwhelmed. Is there a way with those people then? If they get overwhelmed with too many things or too many things to do, can you – if we really want to give them a little bit of homework because we think it's helpful, like say one thing. Is it okay to say, what else are you doing that you think might not be working? And they're like, they name five things. You're like, okay, don't do any of those. This is going to free up enough time for you to do this one thing. Is that a fair compromise?

That would be – I think that would be a good thing. But that's – when you're there, you're in a strategy to manage time. It's – we're in the – I think it's a good way about it. But the assumption is the person is already willing to do it. And they're – it's about the practicality of it, right? So I would not go about it with – or Tracy, that feels overwhelmed. I would really just zero it in on the first treatment on, okay, you want to feel that it's going to be okay. You want to feel some relief, right? Yeah, okay. Today, my care will be about providing this to you. And I would not talk again about carpal tunnel.

We're just about her feeling a little bit better. That's what we're going to do. And if she actually get a sense of this relief she's seeking, for sure she's going to come back. She's going to – for the next tree visit, she'll come back for like five times again, even if those five times did not give her what she wanted because that behavior paid once. You're now more precisely the picture in her head for relief. And from there, you can modify it. So I would go about it, and I would give interest to – how was it this week? Oh, the first day was really great, but now I'm kind of back where I was.

Oh, no, that's really sad, blah, blah, blah. I don't know. You would empathize with it like, fuck, poor little you, without making her a victim, right? But just, okay, that's – maybe we could try a little bit of some exercise that might look odd, and I would present it that way. If you feel like you want – like it's a tool. You're offering her a tool. You're not giving her an expectation where she needs to do this. She has to. She should. She must. Those words must be avoided. That's not how we want her to feel. She's already feeling that way probably. But – so you want to present it as an empowering thing.

So, Tracy, if you – maybe these are things you could try throughout the week to see if it helps you get better, and it's a choice, and then the next week you just ask about how her week went, right? And at some point, if she does not want to get involved in active care, like there's a point where it's cool if you wanted to craft your communication skills, right? And it's nice to have some little bit of expertise about it. But at some point, if the person wants to be taken charge – taken on charge by someone, if someone – she expected to be fixed at some point, you might just have to straight up tell her, look, Tracy, we figured a few things I can do for you to get you better.

And I've suggested a few things you can do to maintain that well-being throughout the week. But beyond this, I can do more, right? From here, the next step you can go will come from you. And that would be like – depending on the issue, like spinal hygiene or being more active, et cetera. At some point, I would give it like plain – like I've been – like I'm at the boundary of the power I have upon your condition, right? But I would start with just zeroing on I want to help you get relief, and then I would suggest the possibility to use some exercise at home to maintain that relief. Oh, good. You actually addressed the question I was going to ask anyways.

That was the problem we were having was the – when people – like there's one gentleman right now that it's been like – he came like, I want to say a year ago with some neck-shoulder stuff. And he was just blown away by like – I said like, hey, about, you know, four or five times, I think you'll probably be okay. You'll be golfing again. And lo and behold, after two, he felt money, right? And so, he's really excited, and he came back again this year with something very similar. And so, it ended up being his hand, and it was, again, from the same area. And he's like, no way, not again? I said, yeah, it's that same thing again.

It's presented in a different way. And so, he's responding well. And I told him, I was like, look, you got to – like, you don't do anything else physical. Like, and so, we're trying to – like, you know that conversation where like you're having someone, and you're telling them what you think they might want to do, and they say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they just – like, you can tell like their yeahs are like, I don't think you're really – you're not really hearing, and I don't think it's going to sink in. You're not really going to do it. And so, we're having a little bit of a trouble with kind of getting people to really buy in on the strategy of keeping things feeling really good with resistance training, as you've done.

Like, you've gone back in the gym. I haven't had back pain in like 20 years after that first spurt. And so, that one's a challenge for us, but I think he kind of addressed it as like manual therapy and everything that we do hands-on in here. We've already done it. It is your choice now to take it upon yourself. I can guide you the way, but you have to put the hard work in now. Is that a – Yeah, and I think some – a thing that really helps to explain complex stuff, like pain is pretty complex stuff, right? There's a lot of things, but at some point, if that guy keeps coming in, it's like, again, I would go with an image like, well, man, you know, think of it as I'm a garage.

I can fix a few parts. I can realign stuff. But if you're being a dick on the road, you'll always need to go back to the garage, right? What are you doing to take care of your car? Or you're just doing like – you're just doing off-road on the weekends. I don't know what type of like driving behavior would go about. It would be golf. I mean, if you don't change oil, if you just get in the cheapest gas, you take rough turns, you don't change your tire, you don't wash your windows, for sure. We're going – I'll see you next week. You know, how would you go about it? I think that would be probably an image I would use just to get people to understand, oh, there's kind of a self-maintainment things about it.

And I will also – and for, let's say, example, a success story of Tracy, I would probably explain it as a plane, right? That like where we started was on the ground and you kind of rise for a little bit. But now it's just like ongoing like physical training just because once a plane hits their like cruising altitude, it's just about going forward. There's no getting higher up. But, I mean, you got to keep moving. That's what keeps you up, right? Otherwise, you'll go back to the ground. I would go about choosing like images that already have sense out of themselves because for real, when someone goes to your office, having kind of done it on my own, just to understand how complex posture is, like to understand what homeostasis is for a body, and how like modern lifestyle correlates to like pretty poor health, that's like way too much for someone who's like, man, I got a pain in my buttock.

I think it's piriformis, right? It's like, oh, shit. Okay, well. I love that piriformis one. I love when people come in for that piriformis one. Yeah, I know. I choose that one because I know you love it. I love that one. You're a good listener. But, yeah, so that would be the thing. Okay. So with, you did mention that you're thinking about writing another little part. Is there, I've only emailed these emails out to like probably like five, six people or so. Is there, are you going to plan on writing something at some point or like is there? Yeah, I think that would be nice. But I, because I really like solving problems and I think there's, I think, I think I will.

I don't know how I'm going to go about it or it will be a presentation because I think I would like to show, well, because basically I'll keep on doing these emails with you, but eventually I would like to make a product out of it. But I think it could be good for a personal trainer too. So I think I would like to try, test it with, in-person stuff with some personal trainer in Montreal, which will allow me to do it in French, which will like magnify our bright eye sound. Because for sure, it's not a better vehicle to show everybody my charisma and intelligence. Oh, I think you're, I can already tell because you already, you already, I typically don't hear other people with other accents imitate people with our accent.

So you already did that, you imitated Tracy, you imitrated a California boy. And then, so you've been done, you've been doing okay. Okay, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good. But, but yeah, I would like to write something eventually, I think. Okay. The, I'm kind of considering like, so we have, we're about an hour and 15 into this entire thing here. I'm thinking about making this into a part A, part B. Do you have to go to work soon here? Like, do you have to pull the plug? Work at two. Two? So you got. And I have like eight minutes walk to work. Okay. Do you, do you find, do you think you, do you have about 15 more minutes to share?

Because I can break this into do about. Okay. Totally. All right, let's do it. Oh my God, that's so nice. I've worked at part A and B podcast. You're the only part A, part B. Wow. Is it just because I'm talking too much? No, I think it's, it's interesting stuff. And I think I could, and we could even role play on this because it's, it's, it's a topic I don't usually don't, we don't, we don't hear a lot of it again. Like I have a Greg Lehman on and, and, and gone some people to biopsychosocial route. But as I've, as I've come to find interviewing some of these students is that they, they struggle with like, they're getting inundated with like mechanical and bio and, and then, and then the psych part.

And even though it says biopsychosocial, they're like, okay, how do I integrate both these into, you know, into my patient care? And so there's, I think they're struggling with that and I struggle with it too. Um, but I, I tend to go a little bit more of the route of just in the very beginning, uh, I try to make, uh, like my main goal is to get them to come back at least one more time. Um, and not from a business sense, but it's like, I literally don't think like my, my track record on people who come one or two times, it, it's severely lower than if I have someone like four or five, six times because you don't have to force everything upon them, you know?

So I, I like it. I thought I like what you're saying. The, uh, so just to recap on things so far, we talked to talk about the skill. What are the communication skills that you've kind of covered so people can categorize them in their brain a little bit? Uh, yeah, basically the two basic one would be, uh, mirroring, which I, again, don't think it's the right translation, but it's basically, um, reflecting to people. But they've just told me so that that woman, um, who was saying, oh, my nuts in my neck, my nuts in my neck, blah, blah, blah. You would go, you're bothered by your neck. Like you're, you're, and you, it's a statement, right?

You force it like, oh shit, you're right. This is how I'm feeling. But he did not say it, right? Like, for example, if someone, um, you, you, someone is, uh, like they're tapping their feet, they're moving, they're a little bit frantic, uh, you're anxious, right? That you, you're reflecting to them. You're like letting them know, look, seeing you from the outside, I acknowledge what you're, what you're actually experiencing, right? And it's, it's really enlightening. Usually people, they, they would eat, if you're on point, they would a, like realize what you said, oh shit, that's true. I feel powerless about my buttock pain, or they would go about, you're right.

That would be the first skills. It's, it's, it's mainly useful for, um, feeling, uh, effective stuff, emotions. Um, and it's usually something, usually I think in your case, it's useful to get it out of the way, if you're like, just obnoxiously mad or sad, you will not do your hip trust. You will not do your homework, right? And you will not be available to receive information. You're feeling something. It's taking up your brain. So I would mirror it and you'll be like, oh shit, that's right. And just like when you put a sunbeam on the little drop of water, it would like kind of evaporate. Usually it's a, sometime like if the people, the person burst into tears, like, oh shit.

Okay. That's beyond my case. Yeah. I would, I would refer out, but, but I mean, usually you will not get there. Right. So that would be the first thing we would be mirroring. The second thing would be, uh, to reword, rewording would be more about just, um, just giving people a sense of your understanding. Right. So it would be like, uh, like typical stuff. Uh, uh, I have, I have pain in my back. I believe it's because I'm getting old, blah, blah. And you, okay, aging has been a rough on your bones. Yeah. That's, that's, uh, you, you, you got it. You understood what I said. It's not about how they feel.

It's about their idea, right? Their concept. Um, so that would be the two basic one. Um, that was that. And what about that? You said that third one that you said, oh, I'm going to write an email on this one. Yeah. But that, that's, that's, um, like the biggest third one would be, uh, what we call open questions, which is basically a question that could, that. That needs to be elaborated. It could not be a yes, no, maybe like, like, uh, he said, do you wear a hat? That's a close question. Yes. No, it's not open-handed. So these questions are great to the, um, I don't know if you've ever played this game when you were younger, but you, you're kind of a minor and you want to mine stuff.

And the lower you go, the more gold and diamond there is. We didn't have that game. We had board games. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Man, the idea, let go of this. The idea is that, uh, so when we work, uh, figuring out what Tracy expected of, out of treatment, that would be open-ended questions. Okay. What do you expect from it? Okay. You, you want to be massaged. You want to be adjusted. What, what would these treatment give you? How would you know? How would you, what would help you understand your feeling better? What are your criteria to evaluate if you, you, you, you're, you're going toward recovery?

How would you feel when you'll be recovered? She cannot say yes, no, 24. Um, she needs to go about it. And it's probably question. She didn't ask herself. You're helping her to, to paint a clearer frame of what will feeling better be. Cause if she's coming in and she wants her neck to be cracked, she, no, we got to go further. What's the outcome you're expecting from it, right? So that would be the third big one. Once you get like these three ones, you're, you're kind of good. Like you, you, you can specialize and go further, but I think in the context of, of like healthcare provider, like treating people as a Cairo, I think these three ones are like three big pillars and you're, you're good with it.

Right. Okay. But that would be the thing to help someone understand how they, would they feel? Cause once, once example, uh, well, I think I answered your question before I go too far on the rant. Okay. Oh, you can see me going like this. I'm like this, like about to talk to that Mike. Um, yeah. So question on that last guy then, um, because I've experienced this quite a few times with people and actually have on my intake form. It says, you know, like, what do you expect to be in one year? What do you expect to be in one year? If it's not treated and kind of just getting them to ask those questions a little bit too.

Um, but I have had people where it's like, okay, so what are you looking for? They're like, I'm looking for an adjustment and you're like, well, what do you think that's going to do for you? They're like, it'll make me, it'll make me feel better. Well, why do you think the adjustment's the thing? I just want an adjustment. Like they keep... Oh, no, no, no. You see, you see that, that, that, that's right there, right there. You want to get interested in the, what, what they will experience through it. Because your third question was to justify yourself. How do you know an adjustment is going to make you feel better, bro?

Are you dumb? That's not what you're saying, right? But that might very well be what they're hearing, right? Yeah. If I, if I, in, in, how would you go about, uh, uh, showing interest toward what they expect out of an adjustment? What would be another question you'll do? Another question. We're doing it. We're doing the, uh, role play then. Exactly. Okay, so we'll start from the beginning then. So, so... Yeah, go ahead. So, what are you looking for today? Like, what, what can I do for you? I want to be adjusted. Adjusted. Um, so, uh, I'll go down, rather, rather, just whatever comes to my head first, okay?

Um, have you been adjusted before? Never. Never? Okay. How do you, how do you think that, how do you, how do you think that adjustment's going to make you feel? Oh, I think I'll feel better or I'll feel, uh, aligned and probably I'll get less upper back pain. Okay. And so, as we're applying this treatment today then, what would be a good, successful outcome to you? Like, what would that, what would that feel like? Uh, if I could get out of here and feeling taller and, and no pinch in my upper back, uh, I would consider that a success. Okay. Um, so usually I'll, I'll ask then I want people to, um, can you show me a movement right now that, that creates that upper back pain that you're experiencing?

And then after we do that one treatment, let's just see how that feels. And would that be a fair assumption of, of your successful outcome? Yeah. Okay. That's great. I think that's, that's the thing. Cause what we want is once, once I said it, right, I want to feel taller and no pain in my upper back. You're like, aha, you got busted. You don't want to be adjusted. You think being adjusted is going to give you what you want. And I will not put energy in disproving you, but I know your real goal is not this because don't think about it. Don't think, don't talk about it to her, to, to them. But if for some reason you adjust them and they get what they want and then they come back the next time and you do something else and, and you kind of don't say it.

You're like, Oh, I just want to troubleshoot something, blah, blah. And they do like a, you know, when you're, you're on all four and you're kind of doing a thoracic extension and they feel better. And then you're like, dude, is that meeting your success criteria? And they're like, shit. Yeah. I'm like, Oh, you know what's cool. I don't need to be paid for you to do it. And you can do it all the time. I'm like, Oh shit. That's actually pretty dope. But if on the first time you're like, no, how do you know an adjustment is going to help? Right. Even if you don't go, go in it with that tone and people don't see it, but I'm kind of being like really sad.

Yeah. She's, you got a good like side to side movement in your neck. Yeah. I've been working on my neck mobility recently. That was subtle. I appreciate it. But, um, so anyway, that, I think that would be the thing. Or I would go about, okay, cool. So now we have a clear plan of action. You want to be adjusted because you would love to, to, to get no more pain on your upper back. You would like to feel taller, feel like it's easier to stay upright. That's cool. So, and you would just like verbalize them. So they understand how much on point you're, because what they've known by the past is the standard doctor.

So just right there, you gain a lot of points. You're like, okay, cool. So you, this is what you expect out of treatment and we're going to go about it that way. And I would go about, how would you feel if I would suggest some, some, some other option or other forms of treatment that could, could enhance or compliment or maintain that outcome. And then you'll get an answer, right? If they're like, nah, man, crack my back. Like, okay, man, I'll be in your, I'll be in your life this week and next week where I'll be like, okay, cool. I'm done with this. If you need more, come back. That's what I could do, right?

It's funny. Those people, those people actually, like the, I remember doing more manual therapy. Like it was, it was actually very, it was very calm. Like people would, like, you can just talk about their day. There is no educational process. It's just lay there and move your arm type of thing. And so that, that, that person, although it's not really what we want to do, what I would want to do with them, um, it'd probably be a very enjoyable experience, you know, and they'd, they'd pay the bills and they get what they want. And so. Yeah. And sometimes that, that's it. I mean, to some extent, that's the thing also I realized in my own job, I think, I don't know if it applies to you, but I mean, I've learned a lot of things about like mental health and what is a good mental health and what type of, of, of, of, of social relationship patterns is enhancing mental health and what is anxiety?

How do you deal about it? How do you go about seeing yourself? And I've learned tons of stuff that I have, like 8 million tools and I want everybody to be like a success story. But sometimes people are just like, man, I want to do my budget. Right. And once, once they're done ending their financial life, they want to stay with their like unhealthy relationship, keep doing a lot of drugs and, and, and like, man, that's cool. So, you know, you kind of, uh, so, I mean, if you've got clients who are like, man, crack my back, crack them back. They come back. That's, I think those people will exist, right?

Yeah. At no point. It will be like in the era in humanity, uh, you, uh, of humankind where they will be like, just everybody is knowing their body and they have like sufficient knowledge to take care of themselves. I think people don't want that. I think there's some people who probably go to a massage therapist or a chiro as, as a, as a way to treat themselves, like as, as a self-care behavior, just like some people take a bath or go to the movie and it's like, Oh, I'm taking good care of myself. I'm letting someone take care of me. And those people, you will never convert them into like a, okay, let's do some breathing drills and hinge and now let's take a real quick break for the sponsor.

The sponsor for the show is pro Cairo online CE. It is a online chiropractic CE platform developed by myself, Phillip Snell and Ben Ramos, all the people you already trust and like that intended to attack the problem of going online and having really subpar learning experiences just cause you got to get your continued education hours. If you've been a chiropractor for a while, you're going to know that not all the, not all the workshops you go to offer, uh, CE hours. And so what we've attempted to do is continue your learning process, continue to give clinical pearls by curating amazing content, amazing presenters on certain topics on an online platform, because that has not been done before.

So please go through and check it out. 10 minutes of every, every module is free already. And if you don't like what you see, you just stop. So if your birthday is coming or it's coming in the next couple of months, check it out. You're going to love this stuff. I promise it will change the way you practice. Now back to the show. Well, that makes it the, uh, it's, I think I've, I've, I think everyone has like their own, like it's there. Let's just say there's a timeline and, uh, evolution of people getting to the end point of like the, the best goal for them or the best answer solution for them.

Um, and I think everyone's different points in that timeline. And so I started thinking about it cause when, uh, so one of my buddies is like, he's, he's, uh, we were talking about his, uh, he had a hip problem, a hip back problem and so on. And so he lives a little bit of distance from me. And so I said, look, just come in. Like, we'll eat some lunch and, you know, like spend the day down here and I'll, I'll work with you and show you what to do and so on. And so one of the topics that came up was, was, uh, weight training. And so we went to high school and middle school together. And so he, he's like, but I'm already doing my, my weight training.

I said, what are you doing? And he said, well, we did in high school. I'm like, oh, I don't do any of that really anymore. Other than like a, like if someone rolls in and they want to do a bro sesh and I don't want to like work, I'm like, yeah, I'll do bicep curls. I'll do tricep, I'll do like skull crushers. I'll do all this stuff, you know, but it's not really, I'd recommend for his, his thing. And so, um, I started thinking about that. I think everybody has their own evolutionary path through, through even weight training and most high school boys go through and they do pecs and they do biceps.

Right. And they do the Arnold stuff. And eventually they get into their twenties. They realize that, you know, maybe I need to go a little harder and then they get a little bit of issue. And then they start seeing kind of like, oh, there's, there's a push and a pull and a carry and then, oh, there's anti-rotation. But throwing it upon them in the beginning, um, is really not fair. And I think it robs them of their evolution too. Hmm. Yeah. I think, but you know, for, let's say for, for this buddy of yours, I think what I would do, I think I would just like, cause the thing is, I think there's a lot of, of confusion because the middle ground is the word training, which is like a, a world out of itself.

Like, like training for elites, like, I don't know, like speed skater is totally different from me being like, oh, I want to look good naked. I'm doing pull up, please repair my knee. Right. Like that's not the same thing. So I would go for that guy would be like, ah, well, that's nice. And I would just specify in regards to your hip, like, like this, this bro training and this, this sex appeal building you're doing since high schools. That's perfect. It's not working well for him, by the way. He's, he's not very sexy. I suppose there's a, there's always, it's, it's about offer and demand, right?

You're, you're just, you're not, you're not the, the, the market for that product. Let's say that we're probably, but, but anyway, but I would specify for your, your hip, there could be that training. I would just go about it. So I, I think that's the way you can like not rob him of his stuff, right? He's allowed to go through this. I do my bicep and my pecs and at some point I'll be a power lifter. And at some point I will not be able to tie my shoes. And this is where I'll discover yoga, right? You can let it, let him go through that, that, that cycle as he wants. But I would just like specify, like make a little bubble that's like for your hip thing.

Was it a hip or a back? It was like a hip back. Oh, let's, let's say it was piriformis. Okay, I can actually, so I, I would just specify like these could be your tools for that problem and, and go on with your, your attempts to do sexiness, which is unsuccessful up to now, but we would not talk about it. He just, he just, he just needs more volume. I could see that the work, like, if you've been weight training for like 20 years of the same kind of thing and you, and, and you don't have massive muscles in that group, I think you got to go a little bit more. He's probably listening, so he'll appreciate this.

Yeah, but the, but the, yeah. Um. A discussion too bad in the future, I guess. I don't, I don't, I will not get involved in the, in the. Well, I like, I like bullshit with him. He's a, he's a funny guy. You seem to like to be bullshitting with people in general. You've actually not been busting my balls today. I'm surprised. This is basically how you seem to cruise through the awkwardness of the beginning of every podcast. Every time I listen to your podcast, I'm like, Ooh, I don't know if it's a close friend or just like the way you go through things. Cause you're really good at avoiding like the awkwardness of, uh, of the beginning of your podcast, which is you're at risk because of your style of podcasting, which is, it's not like an interview.

You don't make people feel like they're on TV, but you're always busting their balls at the beginning. This is how you deal with death. So wait, so I got to bust you a little bit more. No, no, no. I was busting your balls with the fact that you're actually growing about it. And, but I don't know if that was conscious or not, but I, I'm sure that that's because you're like, uh, he's a Francophone. I'm not sure if you can handle it. I'll be nice with him. He said he's anxious about his English. I'll be soft on it. That's what happened. Well, I did, I did try to, try to soften the, uh, make multiple mentions.

But your English is pretty good. Um, yeah, it did work. Good. Well, yeah, I don't, I don't know the style to really take on, on some of these things. And like, so some people I've noticed that there's a, I interviewed a couple, uh, orthopedics back in the day. One of the orthopedic was like, he was really good. And I could, I feel like I could tell by his, like his tone that I could bullshit with him a little bit more. And, um, the, uh, I think it took me the, to the second interview with McGill to really, I think at the end, I told him that there's a, there's a big old massive throbbing bicep on his, on his, uh, on his, on his little, uh, icon, you know?

Yeah. But, um, I don't know. I know the, the one I think that I've, I've, I, the style I like the most is there's one coming out with, I've had Jesse Macedo on once already, but I've already recorded another one. And I think it really depends what the, what the interviewed person drags out of me. Cause as, as I've, as I've noticed that like my, um, when we go to, when we go to workshops, if there's a one-on-one, I, I do okay. Um, with presentation, I do okay. But where I think I excel is when there's two on one and there's three people talking cause I can interject. So I have a chance to think about, or it just, it naturally flows out a little bit more.

There's more to grab from. So it depends. You got to draw a little bit more. I'm going to blame it on you this time. What? What are you going to blame me for? I'm going to blame you. You didn't, you didn't get the best interview out of me. Who podcast is it? That's right. Yeah. But it's your podcast and I'm the guest, but I did not take enough out of you. Okay, cool. Cool. I get it. Yeah. The, uh, um, just, just checking too with, um, cause I know you've heard a bunch from, um, there was, there was, uh, there's the back and forth, which we did a little bit more of today. And there's ones that are like, you know, like you ask the thing and then the person stops and you're like, Oh shit.

Okay. All right. I got to ask another question now. So it's like Q and A versus conversational, which, what do you, what do you like the most? I, uh, I really love how your podcast is conversational, uh, conversational. Like the one with, uh, was it Michael Band? Oh yeah. I think when you, you talked to, you went on like a 10 minute rant, I think about Dragon Ball Z. When that happened, I remember in where I was in my, uh, my last apartment and I was laughing a lot. That was really nice. And that was also, I think it just, it's, it's the better way to go about it. Uh, just because it's, I think it's a, it suits.

Oh, uh, I think it's just the way to go since your goal is to make like complex stuff, easy and digestible. And since a part, a part of it is to, to, to share about like common realities with other clinicians or to explain to patients. I think that's the way to go. Q and A is, uh, I don't know. I think it's not what podcast is low for. Yeah. If we want to do Q and A's, we could basically love it. I have a whole bunch of Q's and ask a book full of A's, right? Yeah. Like there's, I don't know. I, I figure it's boring. Q and A's is kind of a bit more boring. I tend to, I tend to agree too. You get like the, the, the, the, the, the messiah of, of a discipline.

Like if you get McGill, do Q and A's. It's fine. It's McGill, right? Yeah. But, but then everyone else has been, I think we talked about this before that everybody else that has gotten say McGill or somebody, they've already gotten that information out of them. And so now it's just a different person asking the questions a little bit versus like digging down and, and asking like, so, um, so if I have Dan John on again, I'll probably ask him about, so he had a hip injury, uh, or sorry, he had a hip replacement. And so, um, as I've gotten to, I went to his workshop recently and I got to know him a little bit better.

Um, uh, I would ask him probably a little bit more about the hip and figure out like how that progression went as well as for some reason he's very like his information is very, there's, there's a lot of free stuff out there and it's, it's great. But at the same time, my observation is why do people like him so much? He's so damn likable. And his dad jokes are on point, like he's excellent at delivering information. And so I kind of want to know more about that versus the other part. Cause everyone's already gotten out of him, you know, but it'd be, but it'd be kind of a waste of the interview with him because I could get the other information, right?

Well, but I, but you're the listener, what I've loved about your podcast was about how things were made simple. The fact that it didn't feel academic cause I can, I can easily like read things for, for my schooling, like a free, like psychosocial complex stuff and like article I need to highlight and blah, blah. And then I can on my free time, listen to your podcast feeling like I'm actually at like it's, um, it's not in like the intellectual work or work pile. It's not, I'm not working or it's not that. Like if I listen to a, let's say example, the body of knowledge, which is another podcast that I think you recommended to me that I liked a lot.

But if I listen to this, uh, I kind of need to listen. I, I, I can be like, Oh, it's Sunday morning. I listened to the restoring human movement podcast doing like, I don't know, dishes and that's cool. Like that's, that's nice. I think that's the way I consume your podcast. And I think that would go away if it would be more strictly Q and a, you bouncing around and like being more of a dude than a Cairo, I think is, and I'm pretty sure that's what's loved throughout, uh, throughout your, your, your listenership. Is that a word? Yeah. Good choice of words. All right, cool. Yeah, I think, um, it's funny actually there was, um, I was, I was interviewed on about four, four different ones.

Like they were, they were general population fitness podcasts and so on. Okay. And so it was, I've always, I told people at workshops before that I kind of started off with, do you mind if I cuss? Cause you'll get way more out of me. What's that? I should have asked. I think I did. Oh, um, I actually, I enjoy when people cuss, um, be, because it's like, it's exclamation points and it makes me pay more attention and make some real people to me. However, um, in those, by the way, I'll just mark this explicit, so it'll be fine. Um, cool. In so people know. Yeah. Well, no more cause like iTunes will, they'll, I think if someone reports it, they'll de-rank you.

I don't really personally care. I think, and there's no kids listening to this. Um, but, but in the, in those interviews, um, there was like two of them in particular. I just let it fly. Right. And so like I was, I was dropping F bombs and so on. And then I, I actually asked them, can I have that audio? I will edit it all for you. And I took them out because I thought if we're a healthcare professional, how professional is it that you're cussing? And so I think part of, well, I don't, I don't like the idea. Like between, like, like between you and me, like, could you get me like a little bit more off air?

I will, I will go like a sailor, you know? And, but I'm thinking that there, there is going to be, there's, there's going to be a happy medium. And so there's really good presenters and really good storytellers who don't necessarily drop F bombs and cussing. They just are more eloquent. And so I'm trying to go that way, but it's, it's harder to get information out of me in a good storytelling way. If I can't drop them, you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. That, that, oh, actually that's something in my own practice. I'm, I'm even, I think it's even. It's even more present. Cause I, I'm more than a doctor being in the, like a special care counselor.

Let's say I represent the authority, right? I'm a, I'm a role model. I am the one who reminds them what you're doing is not allowed in here. You should do this, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of being a, part of my job is being in the police of the place I'm working where, right. I usually cussed more than the people I work with. Oh really? And more, more, more often than not, people would first believe I'm not working there, but living there. Yeah. I think that's a good thing. Um, my main strategy is infiltration. I'm an undercover. No, you just, Garrett, you're like a, you're like a Jesse Pinkman.

That's, that's the policeman though. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm like Jesse Pinkman. That is a, no, actually, no, I'm not Jesse Pinkman. That's, that's maybe, uh, reaching a little bit, but my point being, um, I'm with you on the fact that I, I, I, how professional can we be? Well, I'm like, ah, man, I, I don't, I really don't know what that word is. So I'm going to ask Google what it is. I think it's decorum. No, dicking around. Like messing around. No, no, no. Uh, let me translate it. Uh, what is it? Fuck. Okay. Google is trading. That's a great definition. It's a great translation. Now I know how to say it.

Okay. You wanted to bust my balls. There you go. Um, what is decorum? That was, that was really, that was the only reason I had to have this two-part series. I'm like, I haven't busted balls yet, so I'm just going to wait. Uh, it's decorum in English. I don't know what it is. But anyway, my point is. Mess around. Sure. That's what I meant. Horseplay? No, but there's something that annoys me. There's something about that, that like, all the mindset of, um, um, like the doctor being a, a cerebral, uh, perfect dispenser of knowledge and expertise. Oh, yeah. And like the, the, the, the, um, the patient, which is, but I don't know if you know, but patience, uh, with the, the, the, the, um, the Latin roots of it is like, uh, the, the, the, the one in the bed.

Oh, really? The, the, the, the one lying, laying on the bed. Huh. That's what a patient is. Like, the, like the roots of this word, I'm, I might be talking out of my ass here, but to my knowledge, like the roots of this word is basically the passive one being fixed. Like, that's basically what it is. And I, this kind of, of, of, of philosophy that you're the chiropractor, you should not cuss. You should use long words that are not accessible to me. You should be professional. Like, I, I, I understand that like you, you should, there should be a, like a kind of an aura or like a little shining light around your body that says, Oh, there is, you just can't see it.

I thought you were going to tell me the, the, the French origin of the word. It was, was basically like French, uh, it surpasses Latin and origin of words. The French origin of the words is his patient laying in bed. Um, no, I, I agree, I agree with you. I think it's an archaic, stupid thing. And, um, like, I believe that the patients are on our same level. We're trying to talk to them on the same level. However, um, we kind of like saying in this profession is like, if you get in trouble, like say someone wants to report you for being like, they just don't like you, whatever, right? Like another, like, say you, um, say you, you, you touch.

Someone on the pack. Cause it happens. You touch, touch someone on the pack and they thought that was, was poor form. And then they felt like they were not in power and so on. So they report you. And so you're judged by your quote unquote peers. And so if your peer thought you were unprofessional, although that's kind of like our quote unquote standard, although all of them probably act like, like, like, uh, similar to me anyways, like, uh, probably all the people that you like, you see on Instagram who are just like crushing barbells and saying docs who lift, right? They're going to be the same type of person because we're resonating well with our people versus just the, but there is the other side of the profession who is more clinical.

Like, sorry, I don't want to say more clinical. They're more white jacket, you know, that, that was a good reformulation. You reframed it nicely. You were like, I'm not really clinical as a Cairo. Yeah. One other thing, it's like, I don't know. It's funny. My girlfriend, like she said that, uh, she said that when actually when I first started this podcast, like, uh, I was like, well, I think patients need to understand a little bit more of our terminology. Cause we speak some Latin, Greek, so on probably French. Um, and they just don't quite understand it as much. I'm like, they need to learn.

But at the same time, I think it's our responsibility to, I'm not going to say dumb it down, but put it in their terms. Um, and so putting in their terms, make a sound like them and non quote unquote white coat or quote unquote unprofessional. And that's just the, but we build the trust, but also too, we still get those people who come in where it's like, they have like their white coat, like aura dude. And so like, I'll help someone with their knee for like their knees. It feels better than it has in like three years. Oh my God, this feels great. Right. And then all of a sudden they have a little hiccup and they're like, so I went to my orthopedic and he said, don't do any, don't do any of this stuff.

And I'm like, dude, you've been working with me for like, like three months on, and you feel so much better and you're going to go to homeboy with the aura and a white coat around you. And all of a sudden you think he's God. Like he barely even looked at you. This guy in particular, not saying orthopedics. Don't look at people. But this guy in particular did not even really look at you and you're believing him. So I think there's a balance of, of, that we get with, with people, you know, totally, totally. And, and, but I think, I think in the long run, because the thing is, I think there's a value in, in like the, the, the, let's say the doctor swag or the white jacket things, which is, which is basically it's, it's, it's credibility, um, out of, um, like status signaling of expertise, right?

Which is fine. I, but I think there's a way to get trust and recognition and to appear as, as, uh, able to perform your job that are also more conductive to active involvement. So I think this is, this is where your podcast is getting traction. I think this is why you're, you're, you're, uh, aside from the fact that you're actually resolving cases, but that your, your business is doing well. I think, uh, that is why you have interest into what, uh, what we're, we did talk about today. And, and, cause that's the thing. Um, if you're telling the person she's, uh, it's a patient that needs to be fixed in some situation, it is true, or it works well with the person, but there's, there's something that induce passiveness in it.

In my job, if I, I, I construct, if we construct my meetings and my one-on-one around the fact that I'm dispensing information, you're a learner, which your power comes from my knowledge that I dispense to you, like no, no shit. You're expecting me to do things for you, right? If I'm treating you in a way that you need to be fixed and you did not fix yourself already, that means you need someone else. Like, I don't, it's just like, it leads to it. So I, I, I think just like the, like facts and just effectiveness will slowly take out the white coats. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I always lead off with, so I'm an Eagle Scout.

You should always trust an Eagle Scout, especially from Southern California because there's not many. If you're in Utah, there's a lot. Okay. I don't know how they are in Quebec, but. I don't know about Scouts. I don't think there's much. See, if you, if you just let off with, hey, I'm an Eagle Scout, they're like, oh, as soon as they know what an Eagle Scout is, they're like, dude, I automatically trust you. Like, you're like, you're like the apex Boy Scout and everyone trusts a Boy Scout. You know, that's the thing. There's, maybe I'm like totally wrong and I'll receive like mails from the, the Scout Association or I don't know, but to my knowledge, for general public, if I'm seeing Eagle Scouts, they will first react with surprise and curiosity of, there's different types of Scouts.

Talk to me about that. Fuck. Okay. You didn't get the reference. The thing is, believe in me. Right, right. Yeah. To say other people believe in me, social validation. I've actually, I've actually had people come into my office and I think I should have really started off with naming my practice, Eagle Scout Chiropractic, because they walk in and I say, I have that little, so I have this thing, I have this plaque. It would have been great. That's going to be great, but within a month or two, you're going to realize something about marketing. You're like, why am I only treating children? What's going on?

Oh, no, that'd be great. So, it's funny. I've met like random Eagle Scouts at places where like, like a bar at an airport and stuff and started talking. He's like, you're an Eagle Scout? I'm an Eagle Scout too. Automatically, there's bro. It's like USC. Like, I don't know what you have in Canada as like the apex of colleges where it's just like, oh my God, you're from there. I automatically trust you. But with the, I've had people come in where, so I have this plaque in my office where it has my little Eagle Scout card and now it has my picture because I was scanning pictures of, it was me in front, it's me in front of an American flag and with my little sash on.

And so, I scanned all these pictures in because I didn't want to keep them anymore. So, that one, I was like, I'll just put it up. And so, it's right there. And so, people look at it and they're like, you're an Eagle Scout? Like, they didn't even look at my diploma or anything. They look at the Eagle Scout. It's an automatic like, wow. Hey, where was that picture? Oh, I was backpacking in Zion. Oh, cool. It's like automatic report. Yeah, yeah, but that was exactly what I was going to go about. That's a relatable thing, right? That's something they're like, oh, okay. I get it. Because like, your diploma, like, what are they going to do about your diploma?

Like, oh, what was your exam? Like, ooh. Well, they write it in cursive. How are you supposed to read the damn thing? Like, they should just write it in like, Arial font. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, thank you for adding the can laugh in there. People are going to laugh at that section because you laughed in the section. Totally, totally. That's social validation. That's right. So, we're an hour and 53 minutes into here. Is there anything? Before we move on, I actually have, like, people would not know because they will not see your face. But you were looking like a boy, like a little boy. You were just like, I have my GoTally.

There was some sort of laugh you had, but there was also some sort of, like, unassumed proudness. Oh, there's definitely proudness. Do you have any idea what it takes to become an Eagle Scout? Holy shit. No, none. Okay. You want to go through the whole criteria. By the way, I almost bought a Boy Scouts of America handbook the other day because I remember I saw an old picture because I was scanning these in. I saw a picture of I had this waterbed with all these little shelves in it, and I can see the Boy Scout book. And it was so tattered, it had duct tape and shit all over the side. And it reminds me, I watched DuckTales recently, and they have the Junior Woodchuck handbook.

I had the Boy Scout of America handbook. And so, I don't have any more. But it was a great bathroom reader because it would tell you how to trap animals and, like, tie knots and, like, hypothermia, basically everything you need. So, I was going to buy one. But, so, you go through that thing, and you have to all do all these merit badges. And so, I think it was, like, about 40 merit badges, something like that. And here's the trick with it, is if you were in a small group like we were, there was only, like, 10 people in there or less. Like, you kind of got to actually do your merit badges. In contrast, there's other groups where, like, their dads are part of, like, not just the troop, but they're part of, like, putting together a, they put together a merit badge day.

So, you go to the local church. Literally, you'll get, like, 10 merit badges that day. And they're the hardest ones, like, write your governor, citizen in country, citizen in world, citizen in, and you're, like, like, these are the ones that you always put on the back burner. You're, like, I'll do archery any day of the week, but if I got to do citizen in country, I will just shoot. I will, like, I will earn my merit badge for guns first, and then I will shoot myself to make sure it was safe. So, there was, but there's those ones where they're hard to get. It literally took you all the way from the age of 12 to the age of 18 to get this done.

And most people don't do it. Wow. So, it's dedication, but the ones that are in those days where, and this is why a lot of hearsay, I didn't grow up in Utah, is what I heard that a lot of times when there's a lot of troops there, such as there in Utah, there was for a while, that there's a lot of congregation into those areas where you can get a bunch of merit badges in a single day. And so, it's not as impressive as what I like to tell my girlfriend, because she grew up there. Because she didn't give a shit about being an Eagle Scout. And I'm like, I'm an Eagle Scout. She's like, there's Eagle Scouts everywhere from where I'm from.

I'm like, you don't understand. Southern California Eagle Scouts are a rarity. You're dating a gem. That was great. That was really great. So, and as, that was great. Now, you trust me, though, better, right? Totally. But also, you gave me a power, a tool that is so powerful, because while you were talking, it became pretty obvious that you are effectively proud of it. And you've got some sense of satisfaction that there was hard work through the process, which was like, you earned it, right? That took maybe five minutes. If that was a five minutes at the end of, let's say, your first session, unlike the third session, I would keep that in my back pocket as a pre-usable frame as to why your homework I'm going to give you is going to bring you that same kind of satisfaction.

So, if you ever have, like, a discussion about Scouts with anyone, I would reuse it, right? Oh, great. It was good. I was looking at you. You were basically not necessarily looking at me. You were pretty agitated. You were moving, speaking a lot, vividly. That lasted for real, I believe, five minutes. Probably. But, I mean, that's a great basis. I could reuse the story you told yourself about it to sell you on something. Because this is, you basically said, yeah, man, I'm proud. Like, I'm kind of kidding with it, but there's something behind it because I've earned it. I am an Eagle Scout. That's part of who I am.

I would reuse it as, like, this is a success story you have with the perseverance. I would reuse it to sell you on, like, doing bird dog. My interns are going to hate you for this because I'm going to retell the story. I'm pretty sure everyone who comes in, like, if we end up going through, there's an exercise called a band pull through. Have you seen this one? I know what it is. And so, if the load is high enough, you have to lean. You can't stand straight up. You have to lean. And so, usually, people stand straight up and they'll fall backwards. And so, I love it when we get to this part because people, they'll keep falling backwards.

And I said, look, you ever seen Eddie the Eagle? And they're like, no. And I'm like, oh, good. You totally should. So, here's the thing about Eddie the Eagle. And so, I go through the whole, like, the whole thing of the movie and why it was so fantastic. But the basic premise of the story is he's a long jump skier and he has to lean. But I love telling the story because I like talking about Eddie the Eagle. So, but it's a good point. So, my interns are going to hate you for talking about Eagle Scout stuff all the time. Okay, so. Hey, me? No, no, no. You talk about Eagle Scouts. I said, like, oh, you're talking about it?

And you went on a rant all by yourself. I'm going to give you. Like seven minutes. And you're keeping it alive. I'm going to give you. You were in the solution. So, let go of it. It's okay. I'm going to give you full credit for giving me the idea to actually do it. Over and over and over again. Great. Good. I'm happy. So, as we start to finish up here, then, finally in part two, then, is there anything you would like to, any way people can contact you? Do you want them to contact you? I don't even know. They don't know your last name at this point in time. They can if you want them to. Yeah, and up to that point, since I'm working in, like, public services, I don't know if I want to be Google-able.

Okay, that's fine. So, I'll figure this out. Okay. And I'll... I think I'm cool with being anonymous up to now. That's fine. I'm mysterious. If you ever want... People don't even know if I'm an Eagle Scout or not. I might be. I just didn't tell you. And I'll let you tell it. And we're even rarer in Quebec that I'm like, man, you're cute. You don't know what I've been through. You know, you're probably more of like... So, there's a thing called Order the Arrow, which is not quite an Eagle Scout, but they hand-select you when you're about a life scout. And you go live out in the wilderness for one night.

And then you go into this Indian tribe area, which is not an Indian tribe. It's a... You go into a cabin that usually some troop will have where they have all their Indian, like Native American type of stuff there. And they do like tribal stuff. So, you're more of one of them, I think. Because it wasn't impressive to get there. You just got nominated. Okay, cool. It was nice from you. I'm really happy I shared you a lot of knowledge, really. I'm goodwill. And now you're like, nah, you're one of those easy ones. But I've actually never scouted. I think I've been once. Yeah. I've been once to an initial meeting to see what it was.

And I was like, okay, I'm out of here. Yeah. Now we're going on a tangent. Okay. Real quick. The crummy thing is, some of the troops, they do suck. It's because the leaders suck. And they don't make the kids go do anything. They go hang out in a room and they just learn how to read a book. It's like hangout time. And when they go outside, I'm pretty sure a majority of North America has, I'm going to guess, I'm going to say 25% or 75% have never spent a night outside of a roof. And it's a sad thing. Would sleeping in a tent qualify as under a roof? That would, I would say a tent does not count.

Okay. I'm in the 25%. Okay. So you have. I've been doing camping a lot. Because I don't know if you realize it, but like Quebec is a big, big, big place. Like Quebec is, I might get the stats wrong, but I think like France fits seven times within it. I don't even know how big France is. How about California? How many times does California fit in it? Well, that's, that's a good question. But I'll just. How about, how about Seattle? How about Oregon? Let's go Oregon. Because it's a boxy one. You can probably, you can probably play Jenga on the map a little bit better. Uh, no, no, no, we'll go for California.

We'll, there's. You're really going to have to play Tetris now then. Because you're going to flip California up, kind of sideways, invert it. No, no, no. It's pretty simple. It's, it's, um, oh my God. Like, like, that's like, okay. It's basically four times bigger. Wow. That's pretty big. Yeah. So you basically, any direction you drive, it'll take you literally three days to get out of, outside of Quebec. Uh, but, well, in, in, in the real world, like there's a, uh, like, I don't know, probably 99% of its population is pretty densely in the, the southest part of it. But like, if you would, there's a, a, enormous amount of, of Quebec where you can, there's no roads.

You need to go through a helicopter. Oh. But like, from, within, like, the, the, the, the, the populated area to go from, let's say, uh, let's say we go from Gaspésie to, uh, Abitivité-Miscamingue, it's like 20 hours nonstop. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. That's, uh, it's like to escape Quebec is very challenging. If you grew up in Quebec, you live in Quebec most of the time. You don't leave? Uh, yeah, basically that would be it. But at the same time from Montreal, which is where I am, going to New York is six hours. Oh, cool. Um, by the way, earlier I did hear you say, um, you, you converted, you converted one time, you said pounds and then you went with kilometers.

Do you use pounds over there too? Pounds with two? Uh, both, both, both. Because, because the, the thing is with Quebec, that's actually little random facts. That, that's why people who do, who graduate as lawyer from McGill, which is in, in Montreal are usually, it's, it's one of the best place, uh, best law school in the world. Just because Quebec has been founded by France, but taken over by England. So in Quebec, I, well, like most of people living in Quebec are bilingual. They speak French and English, but I can handle like, uh, Fahrenheit and Celsius, uh, kilogram and pounds, millimeter and ounces.

But that's also true for legal stuff. So, so basically if you graduate from McGill, you can handle like the, the, the system, you, you, you, you're, you're built like for internet, international lawyership. I don't know if that's where they made it again, but. Lawyership. I think, I think it might be. Great. I just have, you're saying I'm like the title of the job and I put ship on it. It's like, it's the professional feel related to that job. But anyway, if, if you graduated from McGill, you, you, you, you can practice in France, in England, in Quebec, in the rest of Canada, uh, in the U S you're just like, you you've learned both.

Hmm. So anyway. Good. Yeah. We don't do that here. We learn about a football. I know the distance of a football field is a hundred yards and I know about a yard is about three. There's about a meter and it's about three feet. A football field is basically a reference point or throwing a baseball. I talk about baseball throws distance away. That's about two, 250 feet. So it's a good measurement tools. Yeah. Okay, cool. Anyway, we're totally just discussing. This is not a podcast anymore. No, it's not. The, it's okay. Someone can listen on Sunday morning. Um, okay. So then why don't we want to make this deal then since you're going to stay anonymous is, um, why don't then, um, if we decide later, um, everyone can check back on the show notes on this.

I will update the show notes if there's anything to contact. Um, we didn't say your name. We said Alex, um, Alec, Alec. Uh, I was actually added, I added the X to make it more anonymous, but you just made it appropriate. So, um, or, or, or me, I don't know how many Alex or Alec there are up there. So, um, and possibly then if there is something that I get from you that kind of like how I just, I just threw your emails together and sent them to a couple of people and took your name off it. Um, maybe that's something that people can use as learning tools if you'd like. Yeah, totally. Totally. Okay, cool.

Um, any more questions or. Uh, any of you last words? Gravestone. Did you think about what is going to be on your gravestone? My gravestone? I actually don't know if I want to know. Oh my God. Yo, I'm 23. Why would I think of what, what would be like my last word? I don't know. Hmm. Okay. Think about it. Oh, I don't know. Something like, that was fun. That was fun. Something like that. I can see what was on your yearbook post. On my what? On your yearbook, on the yearbook, uh, you know, everyone has like a yearbook, uh, senior picture. The senior picture where you have to like put something there.

Yeah. There was, there was one I saw recently on, there was a, I need to, I need to probably subscribe to his Instagram feed, but it was basically someone was going to, they're going to post a bunch of senior pictures with, with odd quotes next to it. And one was a guy saying, I never lost my virginity because I never lose. So that's great. Okay. Well, that's totally off topic. What I've really enjoyed was, I think I was 12 when I've been told this. It was, but it was pretty funny. It was like, um, Chuck Norris has no father because no one fucks Chuck Norris' moms. That was, that was pretty funny.

Yeah. Actually, if you go, do you don't have a Siri at your home, do you? Like the, uh, or not Siri, uh, Alexa. You have Alexa? No, no, no, no, no. Oh, you're really lucky. Um, we don't have one either, but other people have them. And so typically I'll go over it and I'll say, Alexa, tell me a Chuck Norris joke. And so she has a bunch of them. Really? Yeah. I need to see one of my friends then. Her delivery is really bad. But, um, it's, they're, they're good jokes. Yeah. There was a robot in Far Cry 3 that was telling jokes. And one of them, which is the only one I've ever remembered was, uh, you ask for a joke.

It's like, what, what is a good contraception, uh, strategy for elderly people? And it was new DD. Yeah. There's probably a lot of really good, I would love to have a big collection of dad jokes. That way you can tell them, you don't have to think twice about, is this appropriate for the right person? That way you just kind of just unload them. So, anyway, that was fun. Yeah, that was a good time. Uh, yeah, thanks for being on. Um, pause for a second while I, uh, and then we'll talk after, okay? Alex, thanks so much for being on the podcast again. That was a continuation of part one. If you did not catch that at the beginning, last week we released part one of this conversation.

And so, please go back and listen to that first. Again, Alex is choosing to be anonymous at this point, um, which is completely fine. Um, however, we did negotiate a little bit at the end there that if he, um, if there is, if there is stuff that, that you guys can either get in contact with him or, um, get something that he's published or written, uh, it will be all in the show notes there or onto the, uh, if you search Alec, A-L, uh, sorry, A-L-E-C on p2sportscare.com, you'll, you'll, uh, end up on this episode. And there'll be a link in there somewhere with some type of Google drive or something you can download or so on.

And so, um, as always, um, if you guys are interested in a certain topic, please let me know. Um, I am, after 160 episodes, like, I'm not going to say I struggle to find new information, but, like, I too am trying to improve and I get watered down or so I get, I get kind of deep into the trenches of certain things that I'm just interested in. And I kind of throw by the wayside other things. I just don't think of them that much. So, suggest some things that you guys want to hear about, um, and also, um, suggest some people that I can interview. I won't necessarily take everybody, but, um, I am very grateful for the, um, suggestions.

And it might or might not coincide with, with where the podcast is going at this point in time. Um, lastly, again, if you are a listener, you're part of the movement. So, please be proud of that. You guys are doing an amazing job of sharing, uh, the podcast episodes and also, um, reposting things on Instagram. I'm very thankful for that. And so, I'm, I'm very thankful for you guys being part of this movement to make, um, the clinical experience better for patients, to get better patient outcome, uh, and to really revamp and patch the holes in the, um, the treatments that we, or the treatments and treatment plans we might have right now.

Again, I don't pretend to know everything, but I'm always looking to get better. And I think the movement also is looking to get better as well. So, I'll see you guys next week.