From Baseball to Chiropractic: Career and Business Lessons

It was the MTV videos. They were very popular. Like Cisco? Yes, like my fiance. Her parents are constantly working. When she was home, she would always be on those videos. That's where she learned how her moves. That's where she learned it from. You should ask her, did you have a big, long mirror? How do you know you're doing it right? Or just got good body awareness? No, I think she did. She did. She did have a big dance, so she practiced. This move looks good on me. I'm going to do this one in the middle of that circle next time we have that dance. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey, everybody. It's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the movement, movement. This is your first time in the show. Welcome. The whole intention of the show is to improve the communication of doctor and patient and just improve our ability to get patients where they want to go. And that's just feel better and do the things that they want to do in life, not just only get out of pain, but to have life. And so, through this, we are in podcast 196 here. And so, I invite you to go back and listen to all the other cool podcasts because there's a lot of good ones in the archives as well.

This is part two of our Mikey Ask series, which, you know, Mikey is an intern of mine. And he always has a lot of good questions, so I just invite him to come on and come on and ask. This is a good time. And it's a good way for me to repurpose some content and not have to come up with a new, fresh idea for a podcast every week. So, he has great, great clinical questions. But as we see today, he's asking different questions. He surprised me on this one, so he started to ask me about me personally. So, we're going to get into that podcast here. I apologize, this won't be really too much clinical today.

So, if you're looking for that, this will not be it. However, this will be a lot more storytelling, just general conversation, which sometimes people need, you know. Like, I've had people reach out in the podcast saying, you know, I just really like stories, you know. I just like to hear something that I can just chill, sit back, wash some dishes, walk my dog, and just listen to the podcast. So, this is more so today. So, hopefully you guys enjoy that part. As always, we start into the podcast with, I'll start a short story of myself and my life and maybe crazy antics and so on whenever something comes up.

Maybe mainly so you guys can understand who I am as a host and hopefully you guys like me enough so you can continue on this journey that is the Restoring Human Movement Podcast. So, we're going to get right in that short story and then we're going to get right on to Mikey Ass Part 2. So, I recently watched a show or a movie called Convoy. If you haven't seen Convoy, it's in the 1970s or so. It was Chris Christopherson and the main character was called The Duck, The Duck, Mr. Rubber Duck. And so, I like to cook tomahawk steaks, you know, and I never really got a cool nickname and I know people who got these cool nicknames.

So, I decided that, I told my buddy, I was like, you know what, you know what, when I'm cooking a hawk, I want you to either, number one, you can call me, hey hawk, hey hawk. And I'll respond like, yes, yes sir, I'm Mr. Hawk to you because I like cooking tomahawks. Or a second is you can call me Stephen when I'm cooking, when I'm hawking. So, Stephen when he's hawking. So, either way, I want my nickname to be revolved around my tomahawk steaks. So, you can call me Hawk. Now, into the show. Well, what do you want to talk about today? What's the... Well, actually, I wanted to take this time to, you know, get to know you a little better.

I kind of wanted to get to, you know, I feel like every time we do talk, we talk about, you know, work and, you know, everything that has to do with it. I feel like I kind of want to get to know who Sebastian Gonzales is. Oh, you're going to do a secondary follow-up, the questionnaire series. This is the interview series. No, I mean, it's a little bit of that along with some business stuff at the end. But I feel like, you know, for my own interests, I would like to ask some questions. Okay. I'm game for this. I might toss it back at you then, too. That's fair. Conversational? Yeah, to start off, because I know you had a quite active childhood.

I kind of want to know, you know, how was it growing up, you know, out in Huntington Beach and how active were you as a child? And how were some of your hobbies? You know, we lit a lot of fires. We like to start fires in the backyard. We had a sand pit. So I was a Boy Scout. And so we go on camping trips and stuff like that. So, yeah, there was a while we were trying to, we kept trying to start fires with flint and steel and cotton balls. But to convert that over to actually doing like a bird's nest or something like that was a little bit harder. But it was nice because we had that, we had that sandbox in the back.

It was this big, like probably 12 by, probably 12 by 10, maybe sandbox. We're like, you couldn't burn anything down. So my mom just let me do stuff back there. How old were you when you got the green light to start burning things? We were young. We were, we were Weeblos. So that was probably, I mean, you had probably 10, something like that. Maybe. How was your first experience, you know, like lighting up a fire on your own? I mean, I remember doing it with fireworks, but I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I don't remember anymore. I just, I just remember thinking that it would be nice to like, you go out in the woods to be able to start something that is not with a cotton ball, like grab some, grab some tinder, like a bird's nest or something like that.

Or like there was those dandelions, which had like kind of like the white puffies on them, which I thought that would be a cool thing too. But, or the stick, I never really got to a stick. I should have done that. But yeah, there was, there was that actually have some pictures of that too, but yeah, we play with the dog a lot activity wise, like mainly baseball. I think I was playing baseball since I was like, what's right after coach pitch. I forget. I have no idea. I started in high school. I wish I would have started as a little league and stuff like that, but now I really don't know the different levels as you're moving up on age.

Yeah, there was, I was probably, I was probably about 10 then too. I think the first thing I remember was when I was 10 then probably, um, yeah, we played soccer and stuff. Like we actually didn't play a lot around the neighborhood too much. Like there wasn't a lot of kids around the neighborhood until like I met him in mid or actually the old middle, middle school. There was kids around the neighborhood, but yeah, one of, like one of my best friends right now, like he still lives with, he actually lives with me. Um, I've known him since first grade. I think so. We went to the same, but he actually, he lived, uh, not across the street, but on the, I was on the cul-de-sac.

He was on the other street on the other cul-de-sac and I can see his window from my window, like way down the way. And so I had some binoculars and so I'd peep on him and I was like, dude, like, you know, like actually I remember having like the actual, the cordless phone at the time, you know? Yeah. And so I'd call him and I was like, sup, I see your, I see your, uh, your lights on. What are you doing there? He's like, he's like, oh, you're creeping on me. I'm like, yeah, you know, and so you can see him lower his blinds. Were you, were you the one that you would go knock at his door to ask if he could play or to come to you?

Or did you guys switch off? No, I don't think, uh, I don't remember. I don't remember. I just remember bothering him on the phone. Nice. So you guys met in middle school and now you guys are living together, huh? Yeah, he, he, uh, he, he lives in the other room in my place. So he's been there. He's probably been there for like four or five years now, probably. And those are the relationships that I think when I look back and I have some of those friends, friendships now, I really do appreciate those. You know what I'm saying? Cause they've literally seen you grow up and I feel like as individuals, your personality is constantly evolving as you get older.

So to be able to hold onto a relationship like that, I think it's something special. Well, you ever think you like grow out of people? Or you grew out of a late relationship? No, because I think I've always been, I've always known about, you know, as we do get older, like, you know, we are changing and, and I feel, um, it's, it's just that constant effort to, to, you know, if you would honestly want to grow with that person, you would put that effort. And I feel like you would, you would just adapt to, you know, the circumstances or, or how the person's evolving. What is your youngest, what is your oldest, long, longest running friend?

Uh, so they're twins, um, Francisco and Fidel. Uh, I met them in sixth grade out in middle school. Um, we were, we were, we were, we would, we started skateboarding by seventh grade all the way up to ninth grade. Um, I'm talking about like, we would, we were all, I don't know if you really remember like, uh, the company Baker. Oh yeah. Yeah. Skateboarding company. So it was during that era when those, like that brand was huge. It was zero, all that, you know, Tony Hawk started coming out with his games and yeah, we were all about that life. And we would travel, we would skateboard from city to city and it just felt like we were free.

Yeah. I mean, like, uh, there was no worries. No, um, our parents were, they're single parents. And so we really could do whatever we want and our curfew was non-existence. So it surprises me that, you know, I've come to, to be the person I am today and now I've got to get myself into some trouble, but I feel like it was them ever since. But I feel now like, you know, they're doing their own thing. I wish we could be closer, but I feel as a, I'm prioritizing, you know, obviously, you know, my relationship here at home with my family and, uh, and school. That's like my priority. Yeah. I think, uh, it sounds like you had a moral compass, so you can just, you know, just come back to that to guide you the right way that you, no matter how much trouble you got into.

You know what? I guess I've never thought about it that way, but I guess, yes, I can now say that, you know, when I'm talking about that moral compass of mine has, I don't know, it has allowed me to, to definitely keep myself out of big time trouble. Yeah. Good. Yeah. I think, I think right now, like, like the, the friends that I see the most are, well, let's say with a couple exceptions are people I knew from middle school. Like they're not even like people from chiropractic school, which you spend all that time with. And, you know, not people from college, people from middle school. So yeah, high school.

Yeah, definitely. And it's crazy because my fiance was actually sitting, you know, behind me in sixth grade and who would have thought I would have, you know, fast forward, you know, 24 years and I'd be getting on in my knee asking her to marry me. It's just wild. Yeah. That is crazy. It is crazy. But I mean, that's just how things roll, you know, and you at least expect and you're not looking for it. It's just slaps you in the face. So did you have the middle school dance too, where you, where you, you had to ask her to dance in the middle school dance where everyone was armed distance away? No, no, we would.

It was actually during the time where, you know, like, who was it? Like Ja Rule, Ashanti, like that type of hip hop was around. So we're talking about like battles in the middle of like, you know, they create a circle and like people would go in and battle. And honestly, I didn't have any dance moves back then. So I was a spectator. No, you were, you were one of the ones just enforcing the edge of the circle. Like you had the elbows up. You were like the Red Rover kid. Exactly. Yeah. You're not getting out of the circle. Yeah. So that one. So let's just say my fiance was the one in the circle, you know, killing it with her dance moves.

I don't know. So, I mean, it was, it was cool. It was a good experience. I feel like I'm a, I'm huge at dancing now. I love dancing now, but I feel like back in middle school, I probably was just like figuring out things I liked. And I was trying to fit in, you know what I'm saying? If I can go back, one thing I could do is just not try so hard to fit in everywhere instead of just be myself and let, let those, let those, you know, let that crowd come to me rather than me, you know, really trying to, trying to be cool in a sense. Yeah. This is the part of, part of growing up. I don't think you can tell.

And like, I mean, you could tell them, but they don't, they, they listen. Yeah. Well, I, I wonder what hat, like what kids were good at like middle school dance. Like they were just good at dancing. Like what in your childhood made you pop lock at the age of 10? You know, what it would, you don't recall, like, uh, at least during our middle school, it was, uh, the MTV, um, videos, um, they were very popular. So like Cisco, yes. Like my, my fiance with them and her parents are constantly working and so she, when she was home, she would always, you know, be on those videos. So like, that's where she learned how hard moves.

Oh yeah. I mean, yeah. So, I mean, that's what she learned from, but. So you should ask her, you should ask her. So did you have a big, long mirror? Like, how do you know you're doing it right? Or just got like good body awareness? I think, I know. I think she did. She did. Yeah. She did practice. This move looks good on me. I'm going to do this one in the middle of that circle. Next time we have that dance. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like if I look back, I think my childhood was definitely interesting and I feel like it could have gone a lot of different ways, but I mean, I don't regret anything.

I think I had to, you know, I learned a lot, um, made a lot of friendships and, um, yeah, I wouldn't want any other way. Good. Perfect. I feel the same. I don't think I would have changed anything. No shot. But it, it, it, it does, it does trip me out that, you know, just like in the blink of an eye, I'm like almost 30 years old and yeah. But deep down in my heart, I know I'm still 15. Yeah. I just can't grow out of that. Yeah. I don't think that'll change. I think if we, if you talk to people who are, you know, 50, 60 or whatever, like they don't, I don't think that mine really ages. They just, you just, you look up and you're like, Hmm, I got a gray hair.

What's up? You know, like, or, you know, like, Oh my God, I'm 50. So yeah, I don't think that changes for anybody unless their mind starts to go or something. I think I looked the other day, like I, I usually wear some contacts that correct vision at nighttime. So during the daytime, I don't wear contacts, but I haven't worn them in a while. And so recently I've been, been doing this squinting thing where I'm like, shit, are my eyes, are these 38 eyes? Like, you know, I'm like, nah, I should just put those contacts back in. So were you wearing glasses like in, uh, in grad school and all that and during like grads, I mean, undergrad and high school, you were wearing glasses.

It was always contacts. Uh, I had, I had a little bit, uh, I had like a small correction for, um, for distance when I was in college. And then I ended up, I tried to spur the contacts, which I just hated. And then I ended up doing something else, which was, it's a, it's, it's, um, it's called orthokeratology. It's like, you put hard contacts in your eyes at night and it reshapes your eye to where you don't need them for multiple days. Yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty sick. Cause, um, when I would have contacts in, I would just feel like my eyes just heavy, like, especially like, so there was a, there was a period where I was playing, uh, played a couple tournaments of baseball in, in Arizona.

And it was just so damn dry. I couldn't even wear my contacts. It was just, the whole thing was just shitty. Um, and so this was a good remedy cause you can, you can sleep with them in, um, they're just not even really uncomfortable. And then during the daytime for like three days or five days in a row, you don't have to wear it. Like you got perfect, like, you know, 2020. So it was nice. I've never heard of that. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, it was a good deal. I would say, yeah, I know you were like in the, in the boy scouts and all that. Was that something like your parents gave you the option to do?

Or is this something that, you know, this is something that we're going to sign you up for. Or you're just going to have to go through it. Uh, good question. I don't remember. I have no idea. I was young enough for, I just had, I don't remember anymore. You know, it was fun. Like some of my, some of my good friends at the time were in boy scouts, but I think we all started together. I don't think it was a, I don't think it was like, Hey, they're in it. I want to be in it. You know? So, but actually did, I did recently like upload a lot. I just threw away like all of a bunch of pictures. I probably only kept about 20 pictures where that, because everyone used to print pictures for everything.

And so I scanned the rest of them in. So I just have a bunch of these like old ones, like Pinewood Derby's and like lighting fires, you know, jamborees and shit like that. So, um, I just got to, I recently refreshed on them. Like, Oh, I remember that. Wow. Those shorts, those shorts are terrible, but okay, cool. You know, like just remembering, especially that Pinewood Derby one, where it was like, you could figure out how there's always that one kid that was cheating, you know, like. Pinewood Derby. Is that like a Derby where all the different boy scouts from different areas come and compete?

Yeah. So the Pinewood Derby is where you, there's this big ramp. Someone holds the ramp. I don't know who it is, but there's multiple tracks. I want to say like six, seven tracks where there's wood, wooden cars that you built from a kit, or you could just build one without the kit. Um, it has like peg wheels, no bearings allowed. You can do like, like powdered graphite, you know, um, you can paint your cars and stuff, but there's only a certain amount of weight allowed. Um, and you had to figure out basically what was going to be the, like, it includes some aerodynamics where you want to wait.

The car would it be in the front would be in the back. Like, cause it would be the slope, you know? So obviously for cars to say it was too heavy, it wouldn't, it probably would, I guess it would start slower because of inertia, but it would catch up, you know? So, but there are some kids that always like their cars went, it would win. You're like, dude, that like, he totally like loaded his car heavy and paid off the judges. Like, it's, it's not like they're like drug testing people, these things. So, Oh, nice, nice, nice. That sounds, that sounds pretty intense. Were there any serious injuries from that?

Like Pinewood, Pinewood. Oh no, the car, the car itself is the size of your hand. You're not in the car. Oh my, why am I thinking like you're actually, why am I thinking like you're like an actual full-blown car? Like you guys getting it like little rascals. Oh no, no, I think that's a soapbox car, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. I'm going to pull, I'm going to pull you up a picture of the Pinewood Derby. So you could see a picture of what I'm talking about. And you're going to be like, you're like, what? I actually felt like you guys were on it. That's pretty cool. Oh no, we're definitely not on these cars.

Oh, let's, let's see. Where's that screen share here? You're going to, you'll love this here. This is definitely different than what you pictured, huh? Oh, I've seen that before. Yeah. Okay. So was it an, was it individual members would make your own, like you'd make your own and then, uh, yeah. I mean, you'd probably, I don't know anyone who did teams, but, but you get these kids. And so you have like, Oh, I've never seen, look at this one. Look at that cheaters. That's not, that's not, yeah. Aerodynamics really lean. I think this was the common style. If you can put, if you can put like, uh, like a hood and like a windshield on it, like that's pretty bad-ass, you know?

Yeah. But you put these weights in it. So I'll pull up a weight so you can see. Come on. So there's all these, yeah, this is pretty standard here. So these, there's these little weights, you know, and you just stack them accordingly and just make sure you're not over. Try to be fast, bro. Need for speed. See, look, BSA, Boy Scouts of America. That's official. It's amazing. Yeah, definitely. I would have had fun with this for sure. And like out of, uh, you know, this whole Boy Scouting, what do you think is the one thing that, you know, obviously behind, besides being such a, you know, uh, ethical human being that you are and very down to earth, um, that you, what are some morals that you, you think that, you know, you've acquired from being in the Boy Scouts morals, you know, ethics and whatnot that you use today?

Uh, I would, uh, I would, uh, I would, I'd probably say either troubleshooting or resourceful, you know, like, like they, they would encourage you to solve your own problems, which I don't think a lot of people do. Um, you know, like if, like if this mixer doesn't work, then you could troubleshoot it a little bit or willing to build stuff, you know, housework and things like that. So I think, I think the willingness to try and tinker and, you know, that's why I'm willing with, with the, with the boat that I got, I'm willing to like, I want to learn about the machine, uh, about the, about the engine.

I want to learn how to troubleshoot it. And that way later I can maintain it myself, but I could easily just take it to the shop and pay somebody. But I think the, the willingness to troubleshoot and tinker is part of the game, you know, part of the fun. Yeah. But you definitely, you utilize that same strategy when you're working on patients. Yeah. That's awesome. Um, yeah, growing up, what were some of your, your dreams and aspirations? Like, were you always like, I'm going to be in like in the service field. I'm going to be a professional ball player. What was going through your mind at such a young age?

Hmm. So I think I'm pretty sure every baseball player wants to be a professional baseball player. So you start with that. And then you realize that you're, you got some, you got some, you got some minor hurdles to do there. So around, around probably high school, around that age. Let's see. I think you're, uh, do you hear me? Okay. Yeah, you're just fine. Okay. I hear a little glitch on this end. So, um, yeah, I wanted to be a architect mainly because I like drawing things. So I still have a bunch of pictures. I think I might've, I might've kept these. I don't like a scan them in, but pictures of drawings and whatnot.

And so I don't, I think, I think you've seen, I've drawn human anatomy pictures for things. Um, yeah. But I realized that architecture doesn't require drawing anymore, at least not that, that, that time. So I scrapped that. Uh, but those are the really only two things other than hurt myself and then seeing that there's this. So that in high school, right? Yeah, that was 15. I hurt myself at 15. And then, you know, I think, I think this happens for everybody. Like in, in chiropractic school, they're like, I got hurt. I tried this. It helped out. I got interested. It's the same old story, you know?

Um, so I don't think mine was any different or unique in that respect. I hear you. Um, well, as a person, I've known that you're very, um, you know, your work ethic is, is, is up there. And I, and I kind of want to like understand like what motivates you every day. What is it that when you wake up, you know, that fire is lit under you and you're ready to go. I don't know if I have a good answer for this, except for, I'll say that if it's on my list, then I have to think about it and I don't want to think about it. So that would include just, I guess, a small task, like, like say we're ahead. This is probably going to, you're going to be, I think we're going to be as of this podcast three months ahead on podcasting.

I just don't want to think about it. You know, I'd rather just get it done. I don't like urgency. I just like getting it done. And so, um, I don't think it really sacrifices quality. It's just people put shit off and I don't want to, I don't like putting shit off. So I don't usually write a list too often, but say before I go to bed, uh, if I'm thinking about something, I'll usually just send myself an email of, you know, to-do list next day, which will be like, you know, call Medicare and talk to Mike or do, uh, um, do part of a post or something like that. So I'll usually just go down those and I'll figure out the ones that are first, the most important.

And then I'll go through the ones that are the easiest to get rid of that way. I don't have to write them down again or think about them again. So, but in regards to why to create, I don't know. I like creating things. I actually hate selling things or I hate, I hate completing things like with housework. Like, let's just say like, so I rebuilt my whole kitchen, but I will not finish with the molding. Like, I just like the smallest thing will take like two hours. I just won't do it. Like till this, till right now, like downstairs by the bat, like by the new shower, like there is like, I put a strip of caulking in there, like a colored caulking to make it match the floor, which I did that before.

And now I still have that, that's that, uh, that two of caulking, which I thought, you know what? I might as well double down on that. Cause if it gets done on the floor, that's not going to be good. And so it's been sitting in there for like three months. It would literally be a 10 minute job. I just have not done it. So, um, I like the creativity aspect of it and just doing it, but I don't like the finishing touch. That's why I won't proofread my work. That's why you see grammar errors all over the place, you know? So it's just, I like getting small things. Yeah. I just don't pay attention to the right field, you know, grammar.

I mean, grammar is a big deal, but I mean, not to a extent. Yeah. I'm not too worried about it. It's like, I, I can, I get the gist of what I'm talking about all the time. Yeah. 100%. And even if something right, like, like I'm sure that email went around, you probably got it where it's like, they skip words here and there. You don't even notice, you know, but in regards to drive of why to do this stuff, I don't know. I have no idea. I just, it's just, it's on the list. So it must be done. Well, I mean, but I keep making a bigger list. So there's always other things like I, I'm starting to realize with this, uh, with this, uh, six part wet webinar workshop series, uh, after I did the first one and I see that the next one's coming next week or that won't be the right time timeline for the podcast.

I realized I made a big mistake and I shouldn't have done it. It's cause it's a, it's a larger undertaking than I thought. Um, so I, I, I already said I was going to do it, so I'm doing it, but I'm realizing that this was probably not the best idea I should have spent. I could have been spent, spent time doing something else. But again, I like creating it, but I enjoy making it, but I'm realizing it's larger than I thought it was going to be a hundred percent, but it's really helpful. I was, um, especially that I have access for one month on the videos. I'm able, the first time I went through, I went through all the stuff that I didn't, I missed on the PowerPoints.

And then the second time around, I'm going to go, go back and listen to it, but go really listen to the finer details of cues and whatnot of the things you used. I think, no, well, you're going to get, you're going to get it forever. Forever. Yeah. You'll get it forever, but other people won't. Um, I know I, I was actually, uh, thinking about this for, yeah, I know that this whole tangent to what your thing was, but just talking to you about it is, um, Donna asked me, she's like, how's the second workshop or the other one's going to be any different? Cause your, your process is the same. I'm like, I agree.

But then the next time I was thinking, should I cover all the same stuff, like beginning stuff? And I think my responsibility is to the people who committed. And so I think I'm going to skip a bunch of stuff and refer back to, if you don't understand this, you should watch hip. And then when you say there's going to be overflow between shoulder and neck and hip and back. And I think I'm just going to cover it heavily in detail and whatever, when I hit first and the next one, I'm just going to go heavily in detail into the more of the exercises and, uh, loading strategies versus the diagnostics or testing.

So, um, is that good? Cause I don't want to bore it. Like you guys are the ones that commit, like you want to learn it. I don't want to like, like it's intended to be digested as a series. So I don't want to, I don't want to screw the people who took that gamble just by introducing it to people who buy one-offs, you know, that's my thought. No, I think that's a, that's a good idea. Also what you can do is, um, kind of have, you know how like in seminars, sometimes they give you information to read before going to the live seminar for you to be up to par and understand the material. Maybe what you can do is create maybe like a Google doc of something that kind of goes over where you're going to skip over and then they can read it beforehand and I'll, you know, get them up to, up to date of what's a good idea.

I can cut off like a section of that hip one and then just let them, if they want it, they can read it. Exactly. Okay. That's a good idea. Uh, let me see. I never asked you where, where did you attend for your undergrad? Long Beach state. Yeah, you're right. You're right. You never try to walk onto their team or anything like that or play, you know, those leagues they have, it's not the actual baseball team, but there's a baseball team for, Oh, for other schools. Yeah. Uh, no, I didn't. I just stopped. Like, I just, I just told, I told the community college coach, I just, I'm going to stop. Like, it wasn't like, there was actually, uh, there was like during that time, like for some reason I was having this weird eye thing.

Like I was having vision. I couldn't judge distance. I don't know. I'm like, maybe it's this new field. But I was playing on various fields. So I was having some issues judging balls, running in when I should be going back. And so, um, that combined with, um, there was, I, the guy competing for center field was, uh, he was like double my size. I'm like, well, shit, if we just do the exact same thing, why the fuck would they not pick him? Uh, so that was number two. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like this cause I'm only five, seven. Um, but the third thing was, uh, I had bio labs, which were during practice time.

And so I decided, I feel like I need to make a choice in, in the potential of going into the minors and staying there forever and not making any money and just wasting your twenties was higher than just saying, I'm going to stop. So I decided to stop. That's why I didn't pursue anything else. And what, and then after that you had like, you took a hiatus from baseball where you still doing like what you do now, play Sunday league. And I didn't play again until I was like 26, maybe. So yeah, I was like, I didn't play from probably eight, like 19 to 26. And you studied biology or was it kinesiology?

I was general bio. General bio. Yeah. And, uh, by then did you get hurt at that time? Or was it, you were, what were you trying to pursue? Like what kind of, was it still engineering? What were we trying to pursue with the biology? No, no, it was, it was, it was something medical. It wasn't, I wasn't sure which, um, I know one of my classmates in college, like he went to like, um, like, uh, what's eye school up optometry school, you know, uh, someone else went to MD and someone else went to PA, but, uh, I was working at a, I was working in a clinic at the time. And so he was a DC. And so he had a, he had a PA that came in, he had an MD that came in.

And so like, I knew them pretty well. And so we would just BS about like, what is the best degree? Cause you want to just work with people in this fashion. What's the best degree. And so I think at the time that the PT will, PTs will probably correct me, but I think at the time, PTs couldn't diagnose or there was no immediate access or something like that back in 2000 and probably five or whatever it was, 2006. Yeah. I was like, and it wasn't, it wasn't at a master's of physical therapy rather than a doctor. There was something, I think there was something. And even now there was like a, um, like, I think even now that like two years ago, PTs, I think got the ability to like take cash or something.

And anyways, I think they were lagging on just autonomy was the problem. So I would have, he could have easily chose that. It wouldn't matter to me. Um, MD was too long. Plus you get in more, more internal medicine plus pharmacology. And then PA was like you, someone else you're dependent upon someone else for your license. So why do that? And it was like chiropractor, you can diagnose your autonomous, you have your own license. You do great. Sounds good. So that was the only reason why it, but I didn't choose really till later. And, uh, so you've been getting adjusted already at the time, like you were in like an undergrad, you were doing the ART thing.

I think, I think by the time I signed up for chiropractic school, I've probably been adjusted no more than 20 times ever in my life. So I'm on the same boat. Yeah. I don't think the adjustment was not important. It was just the ability of the licensing. 100%. Um, yeah, talking about, you know, grad school, we both know, uh, I, I believe your listeners do know you were the salutatorian of your class. Um, with that being said, um, did you ever experience any burnout through your grad school? And if so, how did you handle it and how were you able to gain your momentum? Um, I don't remember having any burnout.

I don't remember being stressed out too much. I didn't think it was that, I didn't think it was that challenging. I don't think I recall, I think the, the cramming for the classes or the, the boards was kind of a pain, you know? Um, but I don't like, I won't stay up all night. Like I would never stay up all night to study. I would never stay like pull up all nighters. Like I just, uh, like when I was going through notes and stuff, I would usually go through with a first highlighter. That's the first round. And then the second round was underlined with like a pen. So they're significantly different highlight, uh, attention points.

So I would go through and obviously the first time the highlight and bring my attention back to that because I understood everything else in the paper. It was just those ones was like, huh, those are interesting. Or the guy said, Hey, you got to remember these. And then, so the underline was more of, okay, these are focal points that would bring me back to the highlight. I already understand the other stuff. Um, I, I can memorize what's on a paper, where it is on the page and so on. So I did, I just have a memory like that. It wasn't, I don't know if it's bad or good, but it, for testing, it really helped me.

I can remember all that kind of stuff. Numbers on the other hand, like I had a friend that he was like, I remember we would go, we went to the, one of the first days of the seminar or the work, uh, um, the, uh, of school went to the bookstore, he could memorize ISBN numbers and, and I, I can't do numbers, but he was really good at that shit. So yeah, he's like, Oh, you'd look at it. He's like, Oh, got it. And then he walked like go later. And I'm like, what's that number? He's like, Oh, it's two, seven, five, three, four. I'm like, what? Really? And you look it up and he's right. So, um, I really didn't have any trouble.

I'm a good test taker. So it wasn't a big deal. Um, it's just time, just time spent was the only hard thing. I wouldn't want to do it ever again. Like, I don't think I would. Was, was school your only priority or were you, uh, were you doing other things where you work? You were a waiter, right? You said I waited. Yeah. I waited tables. Uh, I did that. Uh, I was working during the week. I think I was working three days a week at that time. So maybe a total of 15 hours or so. Um, how much was chiropractic school back then? Like 10 years ago? I think it was seven grand a term, 10 terms. So 70, maybe 70 grand total plus books or whatever else you're.

You didn't pull out any loans or anything like that? No, I did. I took out loans. I, I recently paid them off and that's huge. Thanks. Yeah. That was, uh, I didn't have as many, like, I think I owed like 130,000 or so, but I had friends that owed a quarter mil. I mean, it's, I don't know what they did with their money, but like some people got new cars, some people got Mac books. And I mean, so they weren't really, I'm sure they could have been like, I lived at home, you know, so I didn't, I didn't necessarily splurge on stuff and I didn't really go anywhere other than like, we have gone, we go on cheap trips anyways, like boating and camping.

So it wasn't like we were doing any of that stuff. So, yeah, I mean, I mean, what was your game plan? Um, you know, paying back those loans, like, you know, once you were out, you started paying them right away or were you waiting to get on your feet? No. How did you do it? No. So you can actually do a deferment if you're a part-time student coming out. So you can still go, I think they made it harder to do because like, like I legitimately took the classes, but it was, it was actually might be easier now because of virtual crap. But so at the time we had to, I defined virtual classes cause I didn't want to show up.

And so I remember this one class, it was, I think right afterwards I signed up for, I went back to a community college and asked for online classes. And so I said, Hey, I want to take college one-on-one. And so I took college one-on-one for like one unit. I took food safety. It took fire safety. It took, I took general bio. I mean, all the stuff that I could easily pass without having to think much of it. And so like the, the, the intro to college one was pretty cool because the first, the first class, they, they, uh, they said, Hey, what do you want to do after you get out of college? And I emailed back and I said, I'm done.

I'm telling you why I'm doing this. I'm deferring my loans. And they said, great. Don't even come back. I'm going to leave you in a, and so I didn't have to go to that again. And, uh, uh, there was other class like general bio. I didn't buy a book. I didn't show up to a class. Um, I, I just, I saw any homework that was needed within, as long as they posted it early, I would complete it all within the first two weeks of class and never attend class again, other than on test days. And I, I got a C, um, all throughout that. Uh, I think the first time I'd show up to the actual school was a food safety class is they made you take a final in the lab.

And so, or in a computer lab. So I, so I took that, um, and I passed that too. Like it's, it was just general shit. Like, you know, can we do that now? Or is I think you said to make them make it quite more difficult, right? Well, no, there was like, you still can, I think it's, I'm sure you still can, but there was, there was something about like, um, because people were signing up and then dropping classes or something like they weren't really taking the classes. They would just take it for like a, um, no credit, credit, no credit, which you can't, can't do anymore. Um, so now they would wait like six, eight weeks until you actually, like you pass a certain time before they submit your thing to whatever your loan agency is.

But I legitimately took the classes, you know? So the, I think you had to ask every term to do that. So they would, you'd have to ask the loan agency again to make your, make your stuff retroactive again. And it's like, Hey, look, I was in school the whole time, you know, both fall and spring and I did six units. So hook me up. And so they did. So they would stop all the payments on your loans for the subsidized. So basically for me, $70,000 or so was not accruing interest. And I would pay those ones off aggressively and I would leave the unsubsidized. Oh no, sorry. I'd pay off the unsubsidized and I would leave the subsidized until I was actually done.

I did this for about three years. Um, and the one that finally sent me over the edge and I'm like, I'm not going to do this because, cause it wasn't a big deal. It like, it wasn't effortful. Cause I, I knew the material already. It was just general stuff I've taken before. I remember in the past and then I could pass the classes with a C with no problem. And I didn't have to show up. Right. And the one that finally like set me over the edge and I couldn't do it was that they wouldn't release the assignments until that Monday. And then they would require you to be in their classroom, the digital classroom for like X amount of hours or like they would log it.

So participation. And so I think I emailed the person. I said, look, here's the situation. Can I just have all the stuff? And I'll just, I'm like, I will do it all early and I'll do it all. Like you can grab me like everybody else and they wouldn't do it. And so I just would not remember to show up. And so I failed that class. Um, and I, I, so I had to, that, that, that I just stopped doing it, but I'd already paid off enough loans where it was, and I was making enough to where it wasn't a big deal. Was this something you came up on your own or was it like this loophole or was it something that was advised to you?

Oh, I don't, I don't remember anymore. That's brilliant though. To be able to think about that. Yeah. It's as long as it's stuck, like you'll exhaust your classes is the only problem. Like, like you could like, imagine you could take general bio and then microbio and then physiology. But if you have to do a lab, you're screwed, you know? So there has to just be things that that's why I took food safety. Cause I saw it was just, just a bunch of, uh, my, it was just, uh, it was based temperatures based upon like microbial growth and stuff like that. So it wasn't like anything foreign, but if I did take like a, you know, like a, another, another class, I'd be screwed.

I did, I did take a ping pong one time for one unit. Nice. Yeah. That was, that was actually fun. Yeah. It was great. That's awesome. Did you have any, uh, you know, in school, did you have any mentors? For life? Just not mentors. I'm just like within our profession, like any mentors to help you, you know, with any, you know, anything you wanted to learn from them. Just kind of like I have you, you know, have other mentors as well. I can always go to for advice. Yeah. The guy I worked for was pretty cool. His name was Ron Higuera. He was out in orange at the time. He mainly practiced with actor release.

And that's why I did a lot of that at the time. But, you know, a lot of the, a lot of the stuff I'll do business wise is kind of modeled around like, like, I mean, he would see, I mean, he'd see 30 plus people a day for three days a week and charging cash. And he did see it. He'd have some insurance patients, which kind of filled in the void. So that's kind of how, like our offices do, you know, like majority of new people that come in their cash, um, were not cheap. He wasn't cheap either. Um, and you just do good quality care and you make sure that you have, um, that the person has, uh, a good reduction of pain in a short amount of time.

So you don't drag them on. So, um, so he was kind of like that model, uh, although I don't do as much ART anymore. Um, it was, it was a good, helpful, um, uh, direction into how to manage practice. And, you know, actually he, like, I still like now if people need soft tissue work and I can't get it done, he's a boss. Like he just, he's, he does a really good job. Like funny, he doesn't even have, he doesn't even have a website nor a web presence. And people still call like people, like, cause I was a receptionist there for a while. People would call. Um, I think as of, I think as of the time, as, as of 2000 and, uh, 2009, he still didn't have a website.

I bet if you look today, he still doesn't have a website. Just people just love word of mouth, how powerful it is, huh? Oh, people just love him. They love, they love how, like how good his, his, his hands are. Um, but he was just packed. So, so he was, uh, he, he was probably the only made, the only one, everybody else, I think, uh, not much so, you know. And was, did he, so it was just soft tissue, you know, adjusting whatsoever or was it something that he might've, that was depending on the case. Um, he wouldn't adjust a lot. Like, um, there were, there was some, I'm trying to recall back here, but he did have a, he did a, the reason I have that table that I do that, the Lloyd 402, it's, he had one as well.

And so nice traction table. We did some traction. Uh, we did, we just did a lot of ART. He did a, he had a full gym there too, which is mainly machines and equipment called strive equipment, which, um, it's, it's rehabilitation of rehabilitative machinery for, you know, I think, uh, address different strength curves and so on. For whatever joint you're working. Um, but we didn't use it a lot, you know, we did use it some, but not a lot. Um, but I did my, that's where I did my rehab and he treated me when I was 15. So I was there from 15 until, I mean, when I was 15 in 2000 or 1996 until I graduated chiro school in 2008, nine.

Oh, wow. Um, how were, um, like in regards to like the, the patient, um, like where they, where they're good to go by like third, you know, third, fourth visit type of thing, depending on like the, the type of, you know, injury that it was, depending on if it was acute or chronic, um, you know, how fast would people, they, they would get better pretty quickly. Um, I'm trying to recall if there was a certain type of case, which wouldn't respond. And I don't recall any, but you know, he, they had a lot of neck, a lot of back, a lot of hips, um, we did a lot of psoas work. There, there was a bunch of hips that now that I recall it, um, a lot of shoulders too.

So he had a lot of extremities in it. And I know that, um, I don't know how it is for most students coming out of school. I didn't feel incompetent at extremities is, and it was probably that reason, you know. Awesome. Um, yeah. Did you have like a, like a, uh, I know you, you were with him for how many years after graduating, uh, prior school? So after school, I was, I, I, I was, I had my office there for about three months or so, but I did do my internship there too, you know, but after I graduated, I was there for about three months or so. And then I came to Huntington's. So it was just, was, I, it was 30 minutes away from my house.

I just didn't want to start somewhere where I didn't want to drive to. So I just started closer to the house. I think that was one of the best decisions I probably made. And you, you were practicing out of your father's, uh, Dentist, dentist, dentist, right? Yep. So he's had a dental office and, um, there was the receptionist. The front was, I mean, they just, they told me when my patients were there, they'd walk back and we didn't really have any, there was not any machinery. Obviously there was a basic table. I don't think I, I think I had a bench table for a while. Um, then I got that nice table, but, but yeah, that was, I was seeing, I was seeing quite a few people there, you know, low overhead.

So it was nice. And then I moved to the place where I'm at or moved to the building. I was at, I'm at now. And then we moved to a different spot in the building. Awesome. Did you have like a business portfolio before, you know, coming out of school or, or was it something that you were kind of creating as you were just rolling with the. Oh, you mean like a business plan or something? Yeah. Hmm. No, I think we had the right, we had the right one in school though. Um, but no, I've, I was, I was actually talking to this or talking about this the other day with Allie that where, um, you know, like everybody's like getting loans and stuff from, because of, you know, COVID issues and so on like that.

And so, you know, we, we applied for some of the government assistance and so on. And I was telling her, I'm like, I've never, other than student loans in our, in our, in our house, I've never taken out a loan for anything starting business. I've never taken out a loan. Um, so like I keep, I keep everything, I keep, I keep cashing the bank in regards to making sure that I can make those business decisions, you know? Um, and so I guess the point is that I didn't, I didn't have to ask the bank for any money. So I just didn't see the point of making one, you know, I think you're, uh, you're stalled there.

Okay. And, but do you recommend that, you know, Oh, I think. Um, yeah, students can hear me. I hear you now. Uh, keep talking, keep talking, keep talking. Okay. Just, just. Yeah. So my question. Hello, hello, hello. Yeah. I can hear you now. Go ahead. I say, yeah. Um, what were your, like, um, do you recommend us as students, you know, create, you know, you did it under, uh, like, uh, when you were in grad school, but do you feel like us as students should create a business plan just to at least have a game plan, you know, in case, even if it's, if you don't want to open up a shop on your own, at least to have it.

I don't, I don't know. I'm sure all the business people will say yes. Um, I'm going to tell you if I did it again, I would still not do it. Like I would still not make a business plan. Um, just I'm sure knowing like, you know, what it costs to like, I'm not saying parts of the business plan aren't going to be made, but like, I, like, I, I, I want it. Like I, I charge higher because I know it's, it's going to work. Like, do I, do I know exactly how many people I need to sustain business? I really don't. And again, that's probably a really bad way of doing bookkeeping and projections, but, um, I've, I've never had a cashflow issue.

And so I just, I just, I sit down and I do the, I do the pricing sheet or the fee schedule or the cash rates, you know, or I guess prompt pay discounts, whatever you want to call it based upon your state. You know, we do it based, I do it based upon like what makes logical sense to the consumer, you know, and what makes fair sense to me. So, um, I, I make sure that anything business wise that I can do on my own, that does not steal me away from something else important. I can do it. I can edit videos. I can do website stuff, doing all that stuff on your own. No, it's not probably the smartest.

And so I make a list of like the things that I need to do, things that I can do and things that I can't do at all. So like I hire a bookkeeper, she tells me exactly what to do for that kind of stuff. Um, things that I can't do on the website, I don't try. Um, I, I should not be doing social media, so I'm not, you know, but do I need to proofread? No, I can pay someone to proofread or I can have an intern do it, but do I need to be the ones? Yeah. Do I need to, do I need to be the one to actually do the videos as well as, um, writing programming for people? Yes, I do. So I try to keep it a little bit more of, of those three categories versus making this elaborate business plan.

Um, and that'll, that kind of helps me get a good idea of where I need to spend the money to hire help and what I, what I can actually do on my own. And what's the price point? You know, what, what is, what is a fair price point of you working with somebody? Yeah. I think those are great points that you make there. Um, yeah, I, I, I really, I've always wondered, uh, how'd you come up with your name and, and the logo for your business? Oh, the name, the name was, this is a funny one. I was first Orange County pain management. And then I realized there, I think I had talked to someone that like, you can't be called that.

And I said, why not? And they said, because it means, means prescription medication. I'm like, really? I'm like, I didn't know that. So, um, that was the first go. And actually I did get a lot more calls at the time about, Hey, I just need a refill. I'm like, huh? Oh yeah, we don't do that. So I changed the name. I learned from that and I made it P3 sports care. Cause it was, uh, I'm like, well, the three P's would be reduction or pain reduction, performance and prevention. And so funny at the time I asked people, I'm like, what do you think about this? They're like, Oh, it looks great. And then eventually I had to get rid of that one because there's a trademarking infringement, which I actually owned it first.

I made the name first, but I didn't trademark it. And so some other place trademarked it and they sent me a cease and desist because part of my, cause my actual name, the part of the name was part of their logo, even though their name was different. So, uh, I looked up their trademarking thing and they had, they trademarked it after I started using it, but they beat me to the trademarking punch. So they legally owned it. I changed it. Um, and then when I asked around, I said, what do you think about this one? And they said, Oh, I like that one so much better than your other one. I said, why didn't you guys say something before?

So now we're performance place and funny, like the website, since it went from P3 sports care. Now I'm like, well, it's PP. Why don't I just do P2? So now there's P2 sports care is the website domain. Um, so people still call it P2. Um, but that's kind of it. So it just, it was not, it was not by like design, but, but I probably, probably if I were to change it again, I would not put sports medicine. I'd just, uh, so I did put sports care, but on the shirt, if you say sports medicine, people really think knees and ACLs, which I don't like to have, I don't like mess with them. I think I'd probably just go back to chiropractic because they're just going to come in for their backs and necks and hips.

Like it's perfect. That's why the phone calls I want. So I didn't want the medication one and I don't want ones about ACLs. I just want them. So I should have just called it performance based chiropractic or I should have called it Eagle Scout chiropractic. Cause everyone trusts an Eagle Scout, you know? It's a good joke with it, huh? Um, I mean, do you have any advice they say for me, if I decide to open up shop after I'm done, like in regards to names and, and, uh, you know, uh, logos, uh, you know, where can I start? Where can I start? You know, I need some drafts. I would, if I, if I were to do that over again, other than the fact that you have to do some type of legal, like if you're going to be a corporation, like switching out your legal name and stuff like that, it's going to be, or actually I take it back.

You have to be, I think in California, you have to be your name first and last chiropractic Inc. Like there's no other way around it, but, but you can change the DBA. So, but I know you have to pick a URL if you're going to do a website and all that stuff. Honestly, what I would do, I would just call it your name chiropractic and just leave it at that until you decide what you want to do. Cause you can always change the URL and I still find pamphlets and I should, I think I threw them all away recently, but I still find pamphlets and old business cards with old logos and shit that I wish I'd, I never needed to write on a postcard, you know, just stupid, like, like advert, stupid advertising that I don't think I would write now.

And I'm sure I'll think that way about the other stuff later. So I, I don't, I think you just don't do any of that. And I know it's probably a brandy no, no, but people don't care. They care about them. They don't even care. They don't even probably even know what my last name is when I treat them, you know, like they don't care about that, but rightly so. They don't care about you. So they, I would just tell them what you can do for them. Don't focus on branding yourself until like you're about a year out. And then maybe think about, you know, what people you really like working with and then brand around that.

That's really great advice. Thank you for that. Um, in regards to, uh, you know, obstacles that you had to overcome as a business, um, you know, especially, you know, what's something that school didn't prepare you for and you just had to, you know, kind of learn for yourself. Oh, everything, everything being a business center basically. Yeah. There's one thing I learned after having a coffee business is that, and we sucked at sales is that everything is selling and everything is closing. Like you got to close the sale and it doesn't matter what you sell, what your business is, you know, selling China or coffee or chiropractic, or it's the same thing.

Um, and it, they didn't teach us that in school. There was, there was a business class, but it was like structure of, you know, S corp. See, it's all that kind of, it's still useful information, but it's just a whole nother crash course. You're going to get out and realize that all that, all that shit that you're talking about in school, like your, your clinical terminology there, you got to speak on a low, uh, like not a lower level. You got to speak on their level, you know? Yeah. A hundred percent. And, and, uh, it's, I guess the obstacle is just unlearning what you learned and just realizing that you like, you've done a really good job already of, of like the phone calls and stuff, but it is really the hardest thing in the world to accept money for the first time.

And then also feeling like you're not selling someone shit because they really don't, they really don't know what to, don't know what to do, you know? And, uh, they're going to sit there and suffer if you don't, if you don't guide them somewhere. So just buck up, be confident, like sell them a solution and then deliver a good solution. Don't drag it on. So what, uh, for the listeners, what kind of, uh, books or, you know, websites do you recommend they, you know, look up, you know, to help them with their, their selling game because, you know, it's such a vital part of our, of our business. Hmm.

I think that was on your intern syllabus this year, wasn't it? Whenever you become an intern again. Yeah. It might be next year. I don't know. Yeah. The, uh, I, I do like, I do like, uh, Grant Cardone's, the Grant Cardone series. Um, if people are going to get it, like I'd suggest his audio books, he's, he's, he's a, he's a nice presenter and, uh, he, he, he pitches his own or he does his own presentations or his books. So, and they're fairly conversational, but I think, uh, 10 X is a good starting point. It just motivates you to, to work hard and do stuff. And, uh, What is that called? 10 X? 10 X.

Yeah. Hit 10 X. And then there's, uh, another one, which is, I think it's seller be sold. And then there's another one, which is really uncomfortable. Uh, but it's, you should probably hear it is, it's, uh, I think it's something about closing. I think you just look up Grant Cardone closing. Um, but this, this, the seller be sold just talks about, you know, like, like, I think the basic takeaway I got was that if, if we think we have the solution to this person's problem and we feel that person will walk away and make a choice that will not solve their problem, we owe it to them to convince them that this is the right thing to do.

Um, and so think of it almost like a disservice. Like if someone goes, walks away and then does something else and they end up not having a good solution. So, you know, I'm, but I'm sure that takes number one, you have to be confident in your solution. Um, but, but the, the closures. But believe, but believe in the product, don't you think like I, I believe, I believe in your product and I, that's why I feel when I'm pitching it to the patients, I say it with so much confidence because, you know, I've seen it, you know, work and I feel else I have no issue, you know, pitching. Yeah. You have to believe in it.

So yeah, it was just pretty much, those are some good, uh, references though for sales. And I feel, you know, to the listeners that I think it's highly recommended that, you know, you start making it, making sales a priority because at the end of the day, that's, what's going to, you know, bring people through the doors to ask for your services. Yeah. Well, and those are cheap too. So everyone should probably get them, especially the audio ones there. You can listen to them on the way to school. Yeah. Well, the last, here's for the last question. Uh, if you had the opportunity to do it all over again, what would you do different, you know, post-graduation and why?

Hmm. Um, I don't know. That's a hard one. Cause I don't, I don't think I'd know what I know. So I know it's probably a part of the cliche. Everyone says, Oh, I wouldn't change a thing. Um, I don't think I'd, I don't know. I don't think I'd change anything. I think I got out of orange. Let me rephrase the question. If Sebastian, you know, 2020 quarantine had the opportunity to talk to Sebastian. I just graduated from piropractic school. What advice would you give to him? Hmm. Um, yeah, I, uh, I don't know. I don't have, I don't have a solid answer right now. Uh, yeah, I don't know. I probably would have, I probably would have taken some other courses, but business wise, I think everything fell, fell into, fell into place.

Okay. So I don't think I would change anything in that regard, but what, what courses you would have taken? Uh, I probably would have taken some McKenzie courses. Okay. Uh, well, I still don't take that now. I think, I think you're supposed to start the spine. I probably would have taken McKenzie course. Cause that's, that's like a nice pivot point to make sure that you're, you know, applying things when you need to apply them. But, um, yeah, I'm sure those were around back then. So yeah, I don't know. I, I don't, I don't know if I, if I tell myself anything other than just, you know, like, like just work hard, you know, always.

Yeah. So it's always a hustle. That's good. Why I really, you know, I feel like compared to last time, I felt like I had more structure this time and I'm glad I wrote everything down. It allowed me to keep my mind and in one lane and not allow me to take different avenues. Oh yeah. Yeah. I saw, I saw you had a note, note, note thing on the side there. So you did a good job. Absolutely. You know, I'm trying to get better at this and hopefully with time, this can be part of my repertoire, you know, they definitely want to get, you know, definitely that'd be one of my tools that I can hold the conversation and, and, uh, you know, one day hopefully have my own podcast.

Yeah. Well, you know, we are going to, uh, we're, we're going to do another, another one soon. So be prepared to have another go through at this. No, I honestly, I did enjoy this one too, because I feel like these questions, like the personal one, especially like, I feel like again, every time we have conversations, you know, conversations, it's always talking about like chiropractic stuff. I feel like it was nice to finally have a genuine conversation and talk about personal, you know, your childhood and whatnot. So I feel closer to you, you know, bonding. Good. See, we'll have that, we'll have that beer after work sometime.

Yeah. 100%. I doubt it. Well, thank you. Yeah. Thanks, man. We'll talk soon. All right. Take care. Bye. Mike, thanks for being on. Um, you're the only person who's ever actually done a personal interview with me. So I've actually thought before of asking someone who knows me fairly well to help out with Q&A on that section. Cause, um, I, I don't tend to reveal all that stuff or do all that stuff just when I'm interviewing people or doing clinical conversations. So, um, thanks for doing the interview was, um, this is one that I'll remember and you stumped me there on a couple of questions. So I don't know if I, I'm sure I could have come up with a really good answer if I had thought, but you stumped me.

So I think they've, I think I've read before that, you know, you did a really good interview when you make the person say, huh, that's a really, when they really mean, huh, that's a really good question. So thanks for the interview. Now, uh, everybody, as always, please share this podcast with a colleague or a patient who needs it. Um, I don't know if this one is a one that patients will definitely need, but there are other ones in the archives, which such as the one last week that we cover inner arch and plantar fasciitis, which is definitely a very helpful one for patients, just a general understanding of what's going on and what's expected of them and why the reasons they might not be getting better.

So please do go back in the archives and share this podcast. The only way it ever gets more traction is through word of mouth. I believe in grassroots, although I know there's value in advertising. This is a passion project. I don't make any money on the podcast. And so I'm not going to dump any money into it either. This is just something I like doing. And so if you guys want to help me out in that cause, the best compliment you can give me about the show is actually to just share it with a friend. All right. I would love to see the numbers get up into the hundreds of thousands, but we're not quite there yet.

So as always, thank you for being part of the movement and I will see you guys next week.