Content marketing for chiropractors and sports clinicians

And I also get chiropractors that run out of ideas and they'll complain to me like, you know, how do I think of ideas for content? And I was like, do you treat patients? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, that can be your muse, you know, like all these patients come up with great questions and great conditions and you answer them all the time. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey guys, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales again with the Restoring Human Movement podcast.

And today's is going to be a little bit different, similar to some of the off, one-off ones I've done over the last month or so. And it's going to be based upon business marketing and just overall development of how to build a business and help people just like the lay public athletes and so on. Now, if you're a lay public and just a regular person that's not health care, then I apologize. You might not want to listen to this one too much. But this is actually a topic that I think that we need to hit a couple times over the years because the problem in our profession is that a lot of times that really good clinicians, and this goes for PTs, DCs, ATCs, MDs, and so on, some of the really good people get passed over by the public because they haven't presented themselves very well online or very well in the public's eye.

And I'm not saying they've done anything bad or wrong, but for the most part, the dirty word of marketing and business development is something that I know that I shied away from a lot when I was first getting out of school. I thought it was just slimy, just like thinking that you were going to market and sell to somebody. But realistically, the only way that you lay public are going to find us is if we are outspoken about how we can help you and give you great content that will lead you in the direction that might be helpful to you. So clinicians, DCs, PTs, MDs, ATCs, and probably massage therapists, everyone might get, is going to get a ton from this.

I'm going to interview Dr. Kevin Christie today who is the founder of the Modern Chiropractic Marketing Group as well as that same podcast. This is one of the podcasts that I do listen to and I go back to frequently to get bits and pieces of some of the things that will help me develop content for you guys. So we're going to go over content creation today, how to develop the tools to help your patients or help your market or your target audience learn more so they can realize that you're the go-to guy to help them. So we're going to get into this, you're going to get a ton, it's going to be a little different than, again, the clinical knowledge ones, but hang in there.

This is extremely important and if you don't know how to get anyone in your door, you're not going to have anyone to help, period. And let's get on to that real quick story that you guys are, I'm sure, all waiting for. Okay, so I had this other, I thought, amazing idea and obviously I'm never going to make this again. I've already played with coffee business and side business before. I'm going to stick to the stuff I'm probably best at here. So, I was thinking that, you know what is kind of useless is that we have knives and forks and spoons. And remember back in the day when we had more sporks, we had like the spork or the fork knife, or sorry, the fork spoon.

But obviously not a knife on it, knife would be a little bit of an issue with this hang up, but I think someone, an engineer can figure this thing out. Why don't we just make a try tool, make a fork knife spoon and kind of use our teeth, mainly what they're intended to do. And they're intended to rip food off of whatever food it is. So, you just stab the thing, use these sporks. But then the problem is that these things might be plastic and they might break and bend. Plus, we're in the anti-straw movement, so why don't we get rid of those straws there, as well as these plastic utensils, which are just obviously going to be single time use, thrown away.

And then they come in packages of two and three anyways, forks, knives, spoons. So, what a waste. So, I was thinking, why don't we mitigate this whole thing here? Why don't we do a single, again, utensil, make it a spork knife spoon, and make it real fancy. You make a metal one. And I remember before that, I've seen people, let's just say people with their own chopsticks. They come up with their own chopsticks. They bring them out of this little box of this chopstick holder, and they're so proud with them. And they get down with their food with just those chopsticks. And then they wipe them off, take them to the bathroom, put them back, and they take them when they leave.

So, they reuse the darn thing. So, I was thinking, these metal sporks, how cool would it be if everyone's got these, like, little hipster-like sporks, metal spork spoons, that they actually put in their back pocket. Maybe it comes in a nice little handkerchief, kind of the one you give, maybe, like, a collie dog, or maybe, like, a sheep-herding dog, because, you know, you want to call them Chuck or something like that. So, you get these little things, and you keep them, carry them around. And I think, when they're dressed up real classy, when they're delivered really classy, kind of like the iPhones, right?

You get an iPhone, you look in the box, you're like, holy shit, this box is so nice that I don't want to get rid of the box. The packaging is what sells those things. So, I think with packaging, we can make these spork spoons, spork knives, really sexy. And people are going to be so proud to bring them out and show people that they have the new version. We're going to do the X. We're going to do the 6S, and so on. It's going to be so cool. So, anyways, someone can have that idea. I'm sure if you go to China and get these stainless steel spoons, they're going to be on the cheap. You sell those things for $20, you've got a lot of money.

And, you know what you can do? Kind of like use the Tom's model. So, Tom's, every time they make a shoe, they say that they're going to give a shoe to a person in need. So, you can actually take the spork, and every time someone buys a spork, an overpriced metal spork, then actually they give a meal to someone in need. Huh. How about that? So, people love to buy off emotions. So, you feed someone in need, I'll buy metal spork all day. Here we go with the content. Everyone, welcome on Dr. Kevin Christie. Say hey. How you doing? Great. So, we've podcasted before. Have I been on your show twice or three times?

You've been on mine now the second time. You've been on mine twice. I think it was the Modern Desk Jockey. I'm not sure. Have you been on the Modern Chiropractic Marketing Show? Yeah. I think we talked about content repurposing. Yes, we did. I was confused if it was the Modern Desk Jockey or if it was that one. But, yeah. So, I think we've done three. You took over my Modern Desk Jockey one and did a solo round on that, too. So, I think this is round. And then I've been on your show before. I think this is round five for us. Damn. Yeah. That's good. We've come a long ways. So, I thought I would have you on today mainly as I try to make sure to frame all of our conversations and make sure the listeners can understand what they're going to get from it.

There's young clinicians as well as seasoned ones that come on here that we mainly talk about clinical tips and so on. I thought an introduction into your world would be a really good one for them because how are they going to work on anyone if they have no one to work on? Yeah, absolutely. You know, and that's kind of my story. I've been practicing for 13 years. You know, I would say from 2006 to 2011, I was really heavy into the clinical side of things. Like, that's all I focused on in patient outcomes. But inherently, I was doing a good job in my community of public speaking and networking and doing things that were building my practice pretty well.

And then I opened up my own practice in 2010 and just kind of realized from there, I was getting better clinically. You know, it takes time, but I was getting good at that. And I've never stopped learning that. I think it's a lot easier now than it was back then to consume good information because of social media. Like, just articles are nonstop available versus back when we were in school, you had to, you know, like search for stuff and even had to go to the library, right? You had to have a student that was still working at the school to get the library access? Yes, exactly. So it's been so much nicer nowadays to get the clinical information.

So that's good. But I realized I needed to improve from a business and marketing standpoint. And so I didn't realize it at the time, but I've recently learned the term skill stacking. And essentially, it is taking two or three or four skills that are different. But congruent and they relate to each other. For instance, if you happen to be a nutritionist, but you also happen to be really good at cooking and you happen to be a very, you know, you learn how to write, you could technically take the skill stack of your nutrition knowledge, your cooking knowledge, and your writing knowledge. And you could be an expert writer in the field of healthy eating, right?

So that would be an example of skill stacking. Now, what would be a bad example of skill stacking would be I'm a chiropractor, but then I also open up a subway shop, right? Like that's not that that's wrong. That's just not going to be two skills that are going to stack, right? So to make a long story short, I over the last since 2011, really tried to learn the fine aspects of business because we don't learn that in school, as you and I know. And then I really wanted to learn elegant and effective marketing. And for me, that is content marketing and being able to be a valuable resource in my community.

Inherently, that would help grow my practice. So the few skills that I've tried to really hone in on was obviously my clinical and then business and marketing. And so that's kind of what I've been doing over the years. So because you said business and marketing, would you separate those into parts? I would. Yeah. I mean, they are in a lot of ways interchangeable. But the way I look at it, right? Like we go, let's say we went to undergrad for four years. I was an exercise physiology major. Most of us that are chiropractors were some sort of science based major. Not everybody. And then I knew I had friends when I was at Florida State University that were business majors.

They spent literally four years just learning business. And then I had friends that were marketing majors and they spent four years doing that. So you can kind of, you know, split them in whole four year degrees and even MBAs. And for business, you know, like they're different. But obviously, if you're really good at marketing, your business is probably going to thrive a little bit better, right? If you're really good at business in the sense of cash flow and things like that, you might do a bit, you'll do a better job. But if your marketing is poor, you may struggle with cash flow and developing the business.

So I do separate them, but they are congruent. Okay. I'll ask probably just from younger me. Is it when, so when I was getting out of school, mainly the people that I learned clinical stuff from, like they, they seem to not really, they like frowned upon like the idea of marketing and business having people. And, um, I just did a, uh, uh, speech over at the SCU, which is the local college over here for chiropractic. And it was on, it was on YouTube marketing. And I always try to think back to like what I felt like. And I felt like when I tried to get people in, I felt like slimy. Yeah. Is there a, uh, do you ever experience that when people are talking to you about this stuff?

Uh, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of chiropractors that are concerned with that. And I remember being a student early on as, as well, because I think a couple of misconceptions happen or realities. Um, but we do unfortunately see bad clinicians in a lot of forms of healthcare that are not good clinically, but they do a lot of marketing and a lot of it being distasteful. And they are successful financially. And it kind of, I think it, it kind of burns us a little bit. We're like, uh, you know, that's not, that's not good. Um, so that's, that's a problem. I think, um, traditionally a lot of marketing that chiropractors have done have been very poor, uh, unethical, sometimes cheesy, you know, like things that we don't want to do as, as doctors, um, to, to try to drum up business.

And so there's definitely that, um, there's the Holy grail of certain clinicians that we do see that are just, you know, they excel clinically, um, and they grow these huge referral based practices. And that's great. But I think one thing they fail to realize with those really good clinicians too, is that their communication skills are really good and they're passionate. And so that, uh, does help that. Um, but I also think the, the game has changed a little bit nowadays, you know, if it was back in the day in network insurance paid well, it was, you know, you, people came in, they had low co-pays.

Uh, there wasn't as many chiropractors in your community per se. Um, I think a lot of that's changed now. So that's a different environment to where even if you're good clinically, you need to be doing things to get yourself out there, um, and kind of show how good you are and what you do have as a service is extremely valuable. So I think the, what, that's one of my goals, to be honest with you, when I work with chiropractors and with our podcasts and our Facebook group and everything is to dispel the myth that, that marketing and business is bad. Um, if you do it right and you are clinically sound and you care about the clinical outcomes, then adding good marketing and sound business skills to you is going to benefit everybody, including your community.

Mm-hmm. Um, by the way, so everyone knows, I'm going to put some links to the Facebook group as well as, uh, uh, Dr. Christie's podcast in there too. Um, it's one of the ones that we, we spoke off, off air that it's one of the only ones that I really go back to and listen to, um, is I remember I'm like, Oh, I wonder what, uh, what Kevin's got to say today, um, or what expert he has on. But I think you're right with the, uh, with actually the passion to like the, the internship that I did, dude was like extremely passionate and he didn't do any marketing and he kind of told me that you just do good work, people will come.

And I don't, I don't think that's the case. And I think even especially young clinicians, like they're the interns that have come through my place, they're not especially confident. Um, maybe rightfully so, maybe they need some more stuff to learn, but, um, I think the passion is what, what sells people. And I still like, still think that's part of their marketing. Yeah, absolutely. So then as times change, then how are we supposed to change in, in our, uh, our, our education of patients or reaching them? Yeah, I think it's, it's about, so, uh, let me kind of, you know, briefly define content marketing because, uh, when I say that word or if anybody hears it, they just think, okay, content, what does that mean?

Right? Like Netflix produces content. Um, but I got some good shit now. Yeah, they do. I mean, it's, it's amazing. Um, content is king for sure, but content marketing is, is putting out valuable content, whether it's, uh, videos or blogs or public speaking, you know, content is just really the fuel. It sometimes gets misconstrued as social media. That's really just the vehicle to get the, the actual content out there. Um, so you're just, you're, you're actually developing useful content. That's very valuable to a person or to a community that helps drive, um, no, like, and trust. And then from there, when they do need you, they will, they will, you know, think of you.

And I, you know, a lot of times I have people that refer patients into my office and I've never met them. Um, I don't, they never been in my practice. I've never met them and they're referring people to my practice, which is, uh, that's pretty, uh, that's pretty, uh, useful. Like if you start getting not only patient referrals from people that had already come in your practice, but you start getting people referring to you and they've never met you. That means you've kind of doubled up the referral engine and content marketing does that. If you get a good, concise and consistent plan out there, um, people are going to start to find you as a valuable resource.

And so that's content marketing. What's, what's the first content piece that you created? So I didn't, you know, I graduated in 05. I started practicing in 06 because we had a little delay with Florida boards down here back then. Um, but at the time not knowing it, so we didn't have social media or anything. Um, one of the things that I was doing was I was really focusing on golfers at the time. Like early on, I was niching with that and I was writing for the local golf. It was called tea times, uh, magazine. And it was a little golf one. And I was, I got in, I was writing for free on that. And that was a good lead generation for me for golfers.

And that was a form of, of content marketing. Um, I was doing live workshops for trainers in gyms and I would send, you know, letters to them and I would meet with them and then I would do the, the whole training with them. And so live events can be a form of content because I was obviously generating, creating content. So those were a couple of the early ones, uh, that I was doing before, uh, social media made it easier. So did you, um, were you able to repurpose any of that later? I know that, um, it's probably took a lot of time to, to make that. Yeah, it did. You know, and here's another thing what I did.

Like, so when I, when I did the, um, the golf writing, I actually ended up contacting the Florida Chiropractic Association. They have a quarterly journal that's pretty well-developed, nice journal that goes out to a lot of chiropractors. And I wrote for that about being the, you know, golf chiropractor in your community. And it was like a, I think it was like a three-part series that I had in there. And I started having chiropractors sending me, uh, patients with specific golf injuries that they weren't getting results with. So I found that pretty interesting as far as repurposing. I was targeting golfers in my community with the content.

And then I repurposed it and targeted chiropractors in the state of Florida. And then I was getting referrals that way. So that was one, one way of, of definitely, uh, repurposing it. That's, that's funny that like you, like, I think getting out of school, you'd never think like, I'm going to hit up my classmates to have them send me their, send me patients, you know, um, just, just kind of curious, what was the, uh, what was the major injury that would be referred over with the, with those golfers? And then what was the missing link in them? Yeah. So I, I'm certified in active release technique and I kind of chatted about that in there.

And I remember vividly a chiropractor down the street, probably two miles down the road, sent me one of his patients with a wrist injury that was golf related. And so, you know, I, I doubt he would have sent me a back or neck. Um, but he just was more of a traditional chiropractor. And so he didn't see a conflict of interest and he was looking out for the best, you know, interest of his patient. And so I vividly remember that one. That's cool. Um, I was like that one of my, one of my best friends, he, he just recently moved. He practiced no more than five minutes away. Um, and I was, that was nice.

Like in the, in the past, probably in the beginning, I was, I was a little bit more cautious of meeting local, uh, competition, but I feel like there's more than enough people go around and we got to refer out accordingly. Yeah. Um, so I thought it was interesting earlier that you, you broke these down into two parts is you have your content and then you have your vessels because I actually didn't even think about that, but I do think about the, the promotion of the content created. And I think about social media as the way to promote it. Yep. Can you, can you, can you onto a little bit about maybe how to create content, not specifically targeted at one type of social media or how do you create the content and how do you disperse?

Yeah, I actually kind of break it down into, you have your GPS, you have your fuel and you have your vehicle. The GPS is like, you know, the messaging and where are you trying to get to, uh, who are you trying to get to basically. And then the, the content is the fuel. That's really what drives it. But then, you know, email would be a vehicle. YouTube would be a vehicle, Instagram, Facebook, direct mail. Those are all just ways of getting it out there. So how can we create content? You know, and I think content's interesting with content marketing and I'm going to do a little segue and come right back.

People get a little overwhelmed with creating content, but yeah, creating is like the highest on the totem pole. But then below that you can curate content. Like you can take content that other healthcare providers have written and you can share that. You don't want to obviously steal it and put it under your name, but like you could share it through different channels. And if it supports and it's congruent with the type of care you provide and then the audience that you niche to, um, then it's great. And then you mentioned earlier, you can repurpose content. So you have three strategies to get enough content into those vehicles.

Um, and so creating can be anything like a video. So, um, you could shoot it and then repurpose it. You could shoot a video, then you could have it transcribed and turn into a blog article. You can have the blog article put as an email to your patients. You could have the blog article on your website, which you should. And so there's a lot of ways of how you can, can create it. Um, you know, typically as chiropractors, we're, we're really talking about writing video. You can definitely do audio, which I did with the modern desk jockey. That was, uh, you know, a community based podcast where I was trying to educate the community.

And so those are a few ways of creating it, but you don't be afraid to, to curate it either, which is just take other people's and share it. Um, and then obviously repurposing it. Have you, uh, I've done this. I'm just curious if you have two, I've curated, um, missing parts of, say, I want to write a whole article on wrist pain and I haven't created everything yet, but I, I do. You like writing, um, and I'll shoot the videos. I get no problem with that, but there's parts where I'm like, that's, that's a great video. I want to share this with my people. So I'll put it into the, into the article and then later I'll redo the video as exactly how I want it.

Yeah. You ever do stuff like that? Absolutely. Yeah, that's great. And you can definitely do that. I'm going to actually, um, go over how I think you can take one video. Um, you know, you can definitely do two or three and then write a blog. And from there you have basically like a, a month's worth of content by repurposing and, and curating, which is something that I try to get people to understand so that it's not so overwhelming. Um, and so basically you could take a video, a topic, let's just take a topic and then you can shoot a video around that topic. You take that video, you put it to YouTube, right?

Um, now that video is on YouTube. Google owns YouTube, which is good. So now you can get a little bit of SEO going on. You write the blog based on that topic. You insert YouTube links into the blog that goes onto your website. You obviously can take some other people's content and put that in the blog, obviously reference it, but it's like I, for, for instance, I did a low back pain in golf one, not that long ago. And I took a nice chunk out of a TP, a Titles Performance Institute article they wrote on it, put it in there as supporting my view, obviously reference it and put the link to the article.

Um, and so now I have a pretty robust blog and I also have a YouTube video goes in there. Now that blog can be emailed to my patients. I can run a Facebook ad and a boosted post to that blog that's on my website, right? So I'm, I'm directing them to my website. Um, what I do is a quarter, I take a few of my blogs. I make a really nice quarterly newsletter and I submit that electronically through email and all the different things. And I also physically print that on nice, nice prints for page one. I print about a hundred of them. I put those in my reception area. So my reception area now doesn't have any golf magazines or any of these one-off magazines.

It's all of the content that we create. So it's in there. And so now that's a form of repurposing. If you have the finances and you can measure the ROI, I do think direct mail can be useful. So you could physically mail the blog if you choose to, but, um, you, with the blog, you got Facebook, you have Instagram, you have email. It's just amazing how you can just literally take a video or two in a blog and now you have a month's worth of content. And then you can just supplement that with some of the curated content. Like if, you know, if, uh, Cairo up does a really good article on something or evidence-based chiropractor or whoever else, if it's, you know, spine journals, anything, you could take that and just email out to your patients as well.

So it's, it's, it's actually not as hard as people think it is. I'm going to, I'm going to give you that infographic too. Good. I was going to say, do you have a, do you have a cheat sheet for some, for people? I've got a nice little infographic that, that does that. So I'm good. That's, it's funny. Like even, so with you talking and I, I mean, I've obviously spent a ton of time making content. I had to think about that really hard. No, I know it sounded probably convoluted, but I got a nice infographic that'll help you hear. And one of the things this will help you do sometimes, cause I was running into this cause I think, you know, you and I have definitely historically created a lot of content.

Um, but sometimes you can get a little, uh, frustrated with sometimes creating too much content. You know, I'm just, you know, you're, you're creating too much and you're not dispersing it enough through the different vehicles. And so if you have a good strategy like this, it can take the stress off of having to create it all the time. And if you have a good repurposing plan, um, it can really, uh, take that stress away from you. Yeah. I think it's, it's, I find that it's, I like actually creating content. I like getting every morning to write, I don't love shooting videos cause then you have to look pretty.

Um, but, uh, it's, it, I think you're right is there's a, there's a whole marketing part that's, I think it's extremely stressful. And by the time I've failed to market some of the best content, I think that I have, I already want to write a new one. Yeah. Um, can you, can you take us down the route of, of maybe how to, to get eyes on those content pieces now that you've created? Yeah. Because like what you just mentioned, one of the mistakes people make and you may be running into this and I know I have is that you don't give the piece of content that you wrote enough life, right? Like you, you wrote it and you move on to the next one, but you didn't really, um, maximize that value of the content and let it kind of marinate with your audience.

And then, cause then you just hit them with something else right away. Um, that's why, like, for me, I've done some things strategically to not have that happen. Right. And, and, but it takes a learning, it takes, it takes some time to figure that out. What, what your audience can handle and what it can't, you can, you can burn out your audience. Um, so I think that's something to consider is, uh, you know, and find out what you're good at. You know, there's some people that are like really exceptional at writing and there's other people that are exceptional at video. And sometimes the ones that are exceptional at video aren't necessarily naturals at it.

They just, they feel comfortable with it. It's, you know, they do it, they get better at it and that's what they get known for. And so find what resonates with you. Make sure you have an audience that's, that's niched and, and, um, supports the type of patient you're trying to have in. And then don't feel like you have to be on every platform. I think it's easier now and it's fine to be well-rounded that, you know, like you can definitely do that. But if you're just like, I, you know, I've interviewed people on my podcast. I've interviewed a couple of people that are just absolutely killing it on Instagram and they don't even really worry about YouTube.

You know, like every video they shoot is under a minute and it's going on Instagram. They just don't care about YouTube because they're getting 30 new pages from Instagram. I've got people that are killing it on Facebook ads and they don't really care about Instagram. They just do it. So if you're just absolutely killing it on one and you, and your, your bandwidth is limited, don't be, you know, overly concerned with, with everything. Like, Oh, I got to get on Twitter, you know? But I do think being well-rounded is, is very helpful for people because your audiences can be found on different platforms.

Right. You, what's the, what platform are you finding most, most success with that you think then? For me personally is Facebook and it's not just Facebook ads and which is another misconception. Everybody thinks of Facebook, Facebook ads. And then when I think of Facebook ads, they think of like the lead generation only, like get leads, get leads, get leads. And it's not really like that. Um, in my opinion. And so I think with Facebook, you're talking about being active in certain local groups. Like I am active in a lot of the running and triathlon groups here, just being useful, not spamming the group, just being useful.

I have chosen to utilize my personal profile in the community as well. So I have a lot of patients that are personal Facebook friends. That's not for everybody. Uh, when I did that, I made a decision not to talk about controversial things. The, so there's a lot of chiropractors out there that do talk about whether it's politics or religion or controversial health topics. Um, I would probably avoid that if you're going to do your personal, uh, I obviously I think Facebook business page and Facebook ads are, are very helpful, uh, as well. So, um, I have a pretty well-rounded Facebook presence and it does help.

Okay. Funny where you, you're talking about staying middle of the road on that kind of stuff. And, uh, I was thinking about this before actually that, you know how like we have the divided, uh, Republican, Democrat, Democratic parties and everyone just hates one side or the other. Yeah. But the side that loves the side that like all the Democrats love the Democrats. Yeah. That's a really passionate group. They'd be a really great niche. So I've, I've wondered before, like, if you just like, you just hammer one side, not politics, but whatever it is. Yeah. And maybe your group just loves you, but I haven't done that cause I don't think you can go back.

Well, that's the thing. And that's a, it's a good topic. You know, it's, it's how polarizing do you want to be as a local chiropractor in your community? I do think certain industries and certain things you have to be polarizing. Like if you were a politician and you were just kind of middle of the road, you wouldn't succeed. Um, you know, I, I think there are certain things where polarizing, uh, can help, but I don't think it's ideal per se and, and chiropractic now there's obviously there's a lot of, there's a couple of different types of chiropractors. There's evidence informed and there's more that are tend to be like vitalistic or whatever.

And those folks on the vitalistic side will post things and say things that I just never would. And frankly, I don't believe in, and they are kind of polarizing, but they are, they are just feeding to their particular audience. Yeah. Um, way earlier you were talking about overwhelming for content creation and I think we should go back to that because, uh, what is the easy, what do you, what do you usually give the people you mentor? What suggestions to, how do you create content in your first piece? Yeah. I mean, I think you have to have a plan. So what, what I typically do, so we have the chiropractic success Academy, uh, Dr.

Bobby, maybe, and I, and, and we have close to a hundred members in there and it's grown really nice. And we, we drip out weekly content and we have Facebook group that we kind of hash it out and stuff. But one of the first things we did is they filled out a practice audit, which was pretty comprehensive. And I, and I went through all of them. I had a pretty good strategy to do it, but I did go through all of them and give feedback as far as like the top three things to start now, as far as marketing. And one of the things I noticed is, um, first you need to know where are you, where are you struggling at?

So I would see some people that, um, had plenty of new patients, but it just seemed like their office visits and their, and their collections were struggling for some reason. Right. And then I have the other person that the new patient numbers were low and that was the problem and you could see it. And, and, and, but their office visits matched up pretty fairly. Like, okay, like, yeah, with that amount of new patients, that's a pretty good number of office visits, but we need to get more new patients if you're going to have a successful practice. And I felt like that's important because, um, I talk about the, and this is Dean Jackson.

He, he talks about the before unit, the during unit and the after unit of, of marketing. And for chiropractic before unit would be basically your new patient marketing. Uh, during unit would be that patient experience from the minute they contact your offense office to the end of their treatment plan. And in the after unit is, is basically patients that are done with care and haven't been in for a while. And so I found some chiropractors and I'm going to answer your question here in a second. Uh, no, I like the story. Chiropractors were doing good with new patient marketing, but the patient experience and where it was poor.

There was nothing that they were doing to really give that patient confidence to stick through a short, concise treatment plan and get the results. And then their after marketing unit was non-existent. And so if I saw someone that was struggling with reactivations or a healthy number of office visits per week based on their new patient amount, I figured we need to do some content marketing and create some content for that after unit. Right. And so to, to me, I would, the first thing I saw a lot of people out of these close to a hundred audits were not emailing their patients. And if they were, it was only for like Thanksgiving, you know, email or Christmas email.

Right. So I had them to like, let's start creating email content. Let's, let's try for two times a month or once a week to be useful content, nice content about certain conditions or whatever patient experiences. And so if I had to answer your question, if I have a chiropractor that's struggling like that, I think email is a great way to get that going right away. Okay. If I have a chiropractor that's struggling with new patients and they need to get new patients, that's where we're going to have to really dive into, in my opinion, kind of like a total web presence. And it's kind of a catch all term, but to do that is like, we need to have this, like I get so many patients now from just wherever it's like Google, Google ads, Facebook and Instagram post.

Like there's just like a lot of different web presence ways I'm getting new patients now, but it took time to cultivate that. But I want to start that. And so for me, I, I would make sure that my website is a content platform in not just an online business card. Like it is for a lot of people. I would start blogging at least once a month. I would repurpose that blog, but to have a nice robust blog, I would also be shooting the video. You know, maybe it's healthy tips. Maybe it's a corrective exercise to do. Maybe it's a patient treatment with consent from the patient. There's a lot of different things you can do.

And I would just really focus on the long game of having your website as a content platform and then distributing it as such. And so it's a kind of a long winded answer, but that's what I would tell chiropractors to do. Would you speak then as the, the in unit, the, the, before you, would you speak to new patients, potential new patients in a different way than you would with your email established patients? You can, you know, you definitely can. But a lot of times it's going to be more about just how you're getting it to them. You know, they're different strategies. Like for instance, a, a good after unit strategy that I have is, um, these, these healthy desk jockey info cards we put together.

They're really nicely designed. One is a micro break card. The other is an ergonomics card. We have a carpal tunnel stretching one. We've had a couple others, but we email that to patients, but we also, I give them during their, like when there are a patient, I give them to them and encourage them to put the micro break up at their workstation. And a lot of them do. And then that's a way that's an after unit mark. Cause now they may not be coming to my office, but my info is right there at their desk. Right. And so it's, it's a way of getting that to happen. So it's kind of a distribution. Now I could take that same info card and give it to a patient on their first visit.

If they sit at a desk and they say, Oh wow, this is really useful. And that is going to help with their clinical outcome. Cause now they're going to do their micro break. Now they're going to go to their workstation and fix their ergonomics. So now I'm improving some outcomes and they're like, Oh, this is kind of cool. You know, this is interesting. And then I could also take that same info card. And what we're doing right now is we're taking stacks of them. We're going to local companies and just giving them these cards. Like here, give these to all your employees, these micro break cards. And then two months later, we're going to go buy that same one and give them the ergonomics one.

And so that's, that's a before unit. So I took the same piece of content, just kind of reframed what the goal was and have a different distribution model. If you, if you were talking about a multimillion dollar company and their marketing strategy, yeah, you may change a lot of the different content and messaging. Like you may tweak a lot of things, but I have to be realistic when I'm talking to chiropractors and make it effective. But at the same time, realistic, because we're not working with marketing teams and thousands of dollars of budget each month. And so, um, to kind of answer your question is, uh, yeah, you could change the content geared towards before, during, or after, but you can take the same piece of content, just change up what the goal is and what the distribution is.

And now you've targeted one of those three categories. Okay. I got a couple of points in this actually. First is, it sounds like then the, the giveaway is about, it's about how that pay, how it can help the patient versus just business cards. Oh yeah. So it's useful. Yeah. So I like that. Uh, second thing is actually, I, I remember having this mental hangup, uh, when I was first starting now, I just don't care, but do you go to the places yourself as the doctor or is that like, kind of like, Hmm, why is this kind of free time type of thing? Yeah, I don't have a lot of free time, but I, I do a lot of networking and I do, uh, like Friday I'm doing ergonomics, uh, assessments at a company right across from my office.

I'm actually getting paid for that one too. Sometimes I would do it for free, um, to connect with that company, but they offer to pay me. I'm not going to turn it down. Uh, so I try to, now that my practice is more well-developed and stuff is I try to limit my interactions on some more of the, uh, big hitter things, right? Like I'll go and do the talk at a company. I'll go and do the ergonomics assessments. I'll meet with an attorney for dinner, like type of that, just that type of stuff. What I do have is, um, a really good chiropractic assistant where we're doing community outreach with that.

And then associates that will do some community outreach. My goal down the road, I'm not there yet, but I've kind of laid out a plan is to at some point potentially have a full-time community outreach person that would do the drop-offs or try to set up talks, things like that. And then the doctors will go and do the, uh, more advanced level stuff. Yeah. But if I was starting out, if I was starting out and I got more time than money and not enough patients, I'd be all over it. Yeah. That's what I did. I mean, that's what you and I did probably when we first started was, it was nonstop meeting people for sure.

I've always been surprised at where the referrals come from. And you think about like, I think about like back how I met this one person. I'm like, Oh, I cold called them, you know, and, uh, I didn't like doing it at the time, but it was, uh, it worked. Um, you know, one thing actually I tried to reach, I tried recently, I started this over the past about three months. And so I actually got an answering service cause we weren't picking up the phone. We were busy. And so people would be prompted to leave their, leave, leave their information to call back, but also to kind of the, uh, like the reason they called.

And what I've noticed is that, so in the past when we'd, when people would pick up the front office, pick up, people would be like, Hey, how much for this? How much for that? Do you take insurance in which in case we don't, um, and then the hang up would happen. Nothing would, nothing would occur. So over the past few months, we just call them, I'd call them back personally and say, what's going on? You know, like I heard you're calling about your back. So the reason I'm bringing this up is because that I'm, I started doing that cause I was curious to see, again, getting, getting back into hearing what patients in the public are asking for in the terminology they're using and just seeing what else I can create around the questions they're asking.

So, but I think that's, that's been useful for me just getting back in the trench again. Oh yeah, I think so. And sometimes you have to dive into it, maybe not all the time, but you got to dive back into it occasionally to see, check the pulse of, of what's going on out there, which is part of like, it's a little bit of a side topic, but part of what I, you know, I still treat patients and I also get chiropractors that run out of ideas and they'll complain to me. It's like, you know, how do I, um, uh, think of ideas for content? And I was like, do you treat patients? And they're like, yeah. Um, and I was like, that's, that can be your muse, you know, like all these patients come up with great questions and great conditions and you answer them all the time.

Uh, so a lot of times I'll go over to my computer and it's like, oh, that was a damn good question. And I gave a pretty good answer to the, to the patient. So I'll write down on my Evernote and my computer is like, oh, here's a good topic. And then you can write about it. Obviously you don't put patient's name and stuff, but you can, you could turn that into a 50 second video that goes on your Instagram or, you know, whatever you want to do. So it's definitely, uh, uh, we have plenty of inspiration for content. Right, right. Uh, earlier you said something about a website and that's, uh, what is your, what is your website right now?

Is it, uh, do you have, you have your own, you create like a WordPress or something like that? Yeah. It's healthfitchiro.com. Okay. The, I was wondering because like you, you mentioned all the like blog writing and so on. And I've, I've noticed in the past, there was a lot of chiropractors who had these sites that all looked exactly the same. They were by the same company. Uh, what do you suggest with website creation for these people who have these online business cards? How do you make it better? Yeah. I mean, if you go with one of the templated ones, um, for financial reasons or ease of, ease of use, that's fine, whatever.

But just make sure that that website platform has the capability of you being able to put a blog on there. You being able to optimize some of the SEO from a white hat standpoint, SEO, not black hat, which is kind of trying to fool Google, which doesn't work anymore. Um, so you do want to try to optimize some of the SEO of it. So if the platform has that, like if it's Squarespace or whatever, then that's fine. Um, if you've got the financial resources to, to do it, like, uh, I know I made the jump in, in 20, uh, probably 12 where I, well, actually not right at the gates that I did, but then we really revamped it in 2014 and to just put into have a web developer develop it out the way you want, as far as design, feel, make it your own stuff like that.

You can, you can do that. And I, and I, you know, I'm glad I did it. I'm glad I invested in the resources in it. Um, it's been a big driver of our practice. You know, I, I look at the website as, as two things. Uh, let me actually say with three things. One is you want to get people to your website through obviously content marketing, SEO, that total web presence. That's a big part of it. Then two, when they get to your website, um, the functionality needs there and three, the messaging is there. So we kind of story branded our website and it's really easy. We have, we use gen books so people can schedule right online.

Um, so it's all kind of like right, right there. And it's, um, my goal is if someone, if a prospective patient gets to my website, I don't want them to leave. Like, I don't want them to go, oh, that's nice. I'm going to go check out, see if there's another chiropractor. Once they get to my website, I'm like, well, this is the place I want to go within the, within the niche that I'm targeting. You know, like that's obviously a key, um, there was a recent Google update. I don't know if, uh, I'm just kind of curious. We were, we were hit about the 15% on traffic with it on the site and it, it mainly it's the, the observation was that it mainly, uh, affected medical sites, health, health, medical fitness sites.

Did you guys get affected by that at all? Or I did. Yeah, we did. It was starting to get back no more, but I would say, I don't know, it was two, three months ago. Yeah, pretty much. We started climbing about the last couple of weeks. Yeah, it was definitely, it was pretty substantial. It was crazy. And we looked into it. Part of it too was I, I did, I did a little bit of rebranding of the name cause I have a sports recovery center. So I went and now we're health at chiropractic and sports recovery. So there's a little bit of that and we had to update all the listings and stuff. But yeah, I, that Google update got some, got some folks, but, um, I think it'll, I think it'll start ironing itself out.

Yeah. For, for a while there we were, we were looking and, um, at the same time I got an email that said our, uh, TXT robot was affected or something like that. And over that last, over that week, uh, the web guy that I'm using, he was on his, uh, honeymoon. So I'm like, Hey man, you got, can you, can you check this thing out? We just dropped, so crazy, crazy how like Google, you know, cause we get a pry anywhere from 10 to 15 new patients a month from Google. Um, and, and so if it hits, if you get a hit there, you're, you know, if you start doing a math, let's just make up numbers. If a new patient is worth a thousand dollars to you and all of a sudden you lose out on six per month for some Google update, it's $6,000 in a month, right?

Right. That's a big thing. That's why you definitely want to have a comprehensive, well-rounded marketing strategy. So if like something goes down, maybe something else goes up, it's just not going to kill your practice. Mm-hmm. Um, this is a side conversation and I don't expect you to say prices or anything, but, um, I've learned over the, probably the last, I've, I've increased my rates probably over the last couple of years steadily. And I've noticed that I still, I charge significantly more than every person around me and most of the friends or colleagues that I have. Mm-hmm. And it scared patients, I think, in the beginning.

Yeah. And then when I talked to them about like, I'm like, I want you to know up front, we cost way more than any place that you're going to call. Mm-hmm. And it seemed, I think it seemed to get their attention and it hasn't stopped them from coming in. I think we're merit, we merit the price. Yeah. But do you talk to, do you talk to the chiropractors you mentor about pricing at all? I do. Yeah. I think a lot of chiropractors are falling into the commoditization trap. Um, I, I feel like every couple months I have to throw in this YouTube video of Dan Sullivan from strategic coach, which I'm a member of, of him talking about how to avoid the commoditization trap.

And he talks about, you know, like a Starbucks coffee versus a regular cup of coffee as an example. But I think too many chiropractors are falling into that. Obviously, historically health insurance companies being in network have commoditized us and a lot of people are afraid to get out of network. So it's hard, like almost inherently, if you're in network with these insurance plans that are only paying 40, $45, then you are commoditized by the insurance company. And so I do talk to people about pricing and about that. So like for me, when I opened up, I was in network with Cigna, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Aetna.

I didn't get in network with UnitedHealthcare because they were $40 a visit. In 2012, Cigna got contracted with a third-party administrator, American Specialty Health, and it went to $41 a visit. So then I said to myself, okay, I either have to change my care, the level of care that I give, or I need to get out of this insurance. And so every time that's happened, I've made that decision where I went out of network with Cigna. Now I get a lot of Cigna patients that come in and they're paying me cash, which is great. So it's like every cash patient I see is like seeing two or three in-network Cignas.

Then in 2015, Florida Blue, which was our biggest carrier, which was, this one was heartbreaking. We used to get like about $75, $80 a visit and a lot of patients from there, they got eaten up by ash and they got to like 41 or 46, depending on if you build one to two region or three to four region. So again, I had to make that decision and I went out of network with them. And so now I'm only in network with like Aetna and some out-of-state Blue Crosses and I have a higher cash rate. But each time I decided to pick being able to offer the type of care that I want to offer and still provide high value.

So I think that's the key distinction. You know, things aren't expensive if people value them and there's high value, right? Like it's, part of it is the cost versus value. And so, yeah, if you were charging $100 a visit and they came in and all they got was their neck adjusted and they were out in two minutes, probably not a lot of value there. Nothing against the neck adjustment, but they're probably not going to come in and pay that kind of money all the time. But when they come in and they get a different level of care that they're not getting anywhere else, then they'll see that value and they will tend to refer people that are also of that mindset too.

So you start to see the referrals that come in your practice are of a higher level. Right. Yeah, I agree. I've only been in network one time. I think that was my first year. I got out immediately and I've always had the thought that, because I have patients that come in and some of them say like, how come you're not in network with this? And like, it would help you and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, look, I don't bet on dying horses, you know, and insurance has never gotten better any year that I've ever been in. And I thought Florida get paid more than like, I didn't know you guys had Ash over there.

No, we're disastrous. I mean, our best plan now is Aetna and that's only like $55, $57 depending on what you bill. Damn, that's crazy. Yeah. So there's nothing that's really good down here now. Some of the out of state, like luckily with Florida, we have a lot of people that work for companies that are out of state. So they have like Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alabama or whatever. And that still pays relatively well. Yeah, that's, I guess that could be a whole podcast on its own. Have you done one with anybody on your podcast about insurance suggestions? I haven't. It's probably a good idea though.

I'm sure that's a hurt point for people. You know, one of the things that I did post in the Facebook group was, is marketing different if you are in network with all the plans versus if you're out of network. And it seems like the consensus, and my opinion on it is, yeah, it's going to be different. You know, it's going to be different, I think. So take us through a couple, maybe the, what are some mistakes that you've made over the course of the years with your marketing efforts since you're the marketing guru, man? No, you know, it's like, part of it is, you know, like, I feel like there's a couple of different things with marketing.

You got some folks that are really good at the mechanics of it. Like they just know how to optimize YouTube or they know how to do keywords for Google ads. That's not, that's not me. I kind of out, I outsource that, but I feel like I can apply a lot of good marketing strategies to the profession of, of chiropractic. Um, I think mistakes that I've made in the past, which I know of are, uh, trying to do too much, right. Trying to do too much, uh, content and trying to put it on platforms and not optimizing it. And so that's been a problem. Um, another mistake I made was, and I didn't know this until we did a full audit a few months back, but a lot of my listings and certain things were not congruent.

Like I'd have different types of logos and some of the logos wouldn't fit in the image thing, or we moved in 2013, just suite numbers, same building. And there's still listings that were from the old one. So there was like a lot of that going on. So we had to clean that up a bit. So I would say that was a mistake. Um, that's like an easy win just getting all your listings in play. Yeah. It was easy to get that squared away. Um, and then I would say, yeah, like I, from a, I'll answer also from a business standpoint, mistakes that I made was being too reliant on a couple, um, revenue sources. And unfortunately two of them at the same time got pulled like out from under us, which one was that blue cross blue shield in 2015 getting cut, which I couldn't do anything about.

And then two was, um, was we had a corporate location that was paying us a lot of money each month and they got a new CEO and they pulled that out within the same month of each other. So it was like a $17,000 a month hit in revenue. Wow. And you can't predict, you can't predict some of that stuff. You know, I, I, I struggled for about six months to get, to, to get through that. Uh, luckily I was smart about having some backups and, and still being, you know, diversified enough. If it would have just been one thing at the one time, it would have been not a big deal. But when it was two, it was like, you know, what are you going to do?

Uh, but I learned that, uh, having, you know, the emergency savings account, uh, is, is very important. Uh, and I think, uh, people have to keep that into consideration, um, is to build up a nice amount. It's all relative, um, that will make you feel safe and protect you from whatever. Maybe the economy goes bad. Who knows? So I thought in Florida, you're always supposed to plan for bad weather account. Yeah, sadly. Sadly, as we speak now, there, Hurricane Michael is about to hit the panhandle. I'm down in South Florida, so it's not affecting us, but yeah, uh, we know about the weather down here.

Yeah. All right. Um, what is, what are some things that you're doing right now? Now that you mentioned that, um, you have the Academy, uh, what are some exciting things you're working on right now? Yeah. You know, obviously we've got the, the modern chiropractic marketing show, which is, is kind of lined up with the modern chiropractic Facebook group. We've got 3000 members in that. Uh, so that's been really fun. We've been doing that for, for a little over two years now, and that's grown nicely. And then, uh, from there we do different things. Um, we have a virtual summit coming up. Um, it's on business and marketing and that will be, um, November 14th and 15th.

If they, if your audience joins our Facebook group, uh, or listens to the podcast, they'll be able to get the link. I haven't put together the software platform, but that's coming out and it can be exciting. I'll be having 10 really good presentations, some on business track and some on marketing track, which is great. Um, and then one of the things we, that we launched in July that I mentioned was the chiropractic success Academy and this is where we dive a lot deeper into these types of topics versus kind of the 30,000 foot overview. That is the Facebook group and, and the, uh, and the podcast.

So, uh, that's what I'm doing. Um, kind of the skill stacking, like I mentioned, a lot of people think, how do you have time to do all that? Well, the thing that's been really fun is that as I've done the podcast and the Facebook group and be a part of helping some chiropractors, I've learned so much. And then I'm able to just apply that to my business. And now my business is thriving more than it was before because I'm able to, uh, apply that to my practice. And then I use my practice sometimes as kind of like a, a test run to see if something works or if it doesn't. Um, and so it's been, it's been a nice little congruent, uh, marriage there.

So that's, that's what I've got going on. What, what was your, when you created all that stuff, then what was your, what was the problem you're trying to solve in the world? Well, it can't, you know, it stemmed from that 2015, which was, you know, we had such a meteoric rise from 2010, you know, 2010, I opened my practice without taking a loan. Cause I had sold out of a partnership. Um, we had started accumulating corporate onsite locations. I had multiple associates. Uh, we, I, in 2013, I was able to buy my office space. I've got a 3000 square foot office that I purchased the real estate, um, everything, you know, going great.

And then when we hit, got hammered in 2015 on that stuff, um, I realized like, I don't want my business to ever be vulnerable again. And so I started to get rid of certain things that were vulnerable, vulnerable. And, and I knew that if I applied really good marketing, I could get through a lot of the different things that could happen, which was okay. I, you know, a lot of my patients before were Florida blue and now they're not, I'm at a network with the best plan and, you know, was the biggest plan and best plan. And so how am I going to do that? How many of these people to, to pay us our cash rates?

And so, um, that was one of the, to answer your question, things I wanted to solve is I don't want to be at the whim of insurance companies. And I want to make sure that our marketing is on point to where I have a very reliable and predictable revenue stream every month. And so, and, and frankly, I want to have a, I really want to have a self-managing practice that is not reliant on me. Um, and, and that's the goal that I have. And I think having a very good marketing strategy is, is key to that. Yeah. So then as you're, as you're developing this right now, then what do you, what do you think is, what is its, its most vulnerable point now then?

Like I, I can, I know with mine, it's my, if my website went down, I would probably jump off a cliff and there was no copy of it. Yeah, I can answer that question. My vulnerable, my most vulnerable part right now is this year is the first year, uh, that my Boca Raton office, I have an office in Miami as well, but that my Boca Raton office is just me. Um, I had my last associate, he left in January and I was just, you know, I'm going to take my time, get through the summer months and all that. And then I'll, I'll be hiring again in the not too distant future. But vulnerability would be just that it's relying on me treating patients right now.

And that's always a crapshoot, right? Yeah. So, but you, but you're getting, but you're probably getting extra honed in on getting good patient, uh, buying in and making them happy. And so that's, that's great. Um, is there anything that you'd like to cover they've been covered yet actually? Um, well, I just think, you know, there's a link if anybody's interested in the chiropractic success Academy, they could go to bit.ly. That's bit.ly, uh, slash your CSA circle. And you could check that out. Um, we, we do have a student rate and we have obviously a chiropractor rate. And so check us out there.

It's a really, uh, really good group. And, and we're continuing to put out really good content into there. What, when someone goes through that, what, what should they expect? Like emails, articles? It's a, it's a platform. So it's like an Academy where they could log into and there's four channels. There's the business person. There's the producer, which is marketing. There's the clinician. So we do like clinical things like this last month was all about, um, basically documentation this month coming up is all about, uh, Medicare and we have different things like that. We'll have some things clinically, uh, we got some really good interviews lined up.

And the fourth one is about the person, like the mindset, just getting, um, really clear on that type of stuff. So we marry those four channels together. We put one module in each of those channels per month. So you get four pieces each month and then we workshop it in the Facebook group. Everybody's pretty engaged in there. Um, and then we do a monthly zoom call. We're doing a live event next year. So it's just being part of this community that's working towards, um, whatever the success that that particular doctor is trying to achieve. You guys had, do you guys, you have a success story that you can share it all right now?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I won't give the doctor's name cause I didn't get permission beforehand, but, um, yeah. None of this podcast is scripted. I liked it. We were getting a good dialogue going. Um, but he just started shooting video and, and his numbers, uh, have reflected, reflected that, uh, consistently. And so he went in there and just, you know, basically said that it was the, like the joining the Academy gave him some skin in the game. He finally started shooting the video, uh, based on some of the stuff that we talked about in the group. And he's starting to see the results of just being in action and doing that.

And so, uh, you know, we've been doing this for, this is our fourth month. So we're still, you know, there's still more success stories out there for sure. But, uh, overall we've had a lot of good feedback. Nice. I see that too. There was, um, there was a guy that reached out to me on Facebook. I'm scrolling to look for his name right now. I forget. I think his last name was, Oh, Mark Murdoch. Uh, he's just so hyped on you right now in this little group, this, uh, this DC business club. Really? There's a, Oh, nice. Yeah. I see your link right now. If you're not part of this Facebook group by Kevin Christie, get on it.

That's awesome. Yeah. I've done some speaking recently too. I, I did a webinar to, to that school up in, um, Washington state. I was just in Kansas city last weekend, speaking to some students there, uh, speaking at Parker Vegas next year, which is exciting and, and a few others. So it's also motion palpation Institute. I'm speaking on about marketing and business. So it's exciting. You get to hang out with McGill at Parker Las Vegas next year. I think, unfortunately, I think I'm speaking at the same time as McGill. So that's going to be a tough, tough, uh, battle. Yeah. I, I, I think, uh, maybe you just bargain with him and, uh, I'll offer him a pound of butter and say, can you go an hour later?

That's awesome. Um, well, cool. Then I'll reach out to you for some of the links then, and I'll, I'll put them in the show notes so everyone can have them. Um, just recap, how can everyone reach you best way? Yeah, they can check, check out the Facebook group, the modern chiropractic marketing group. I'm pretty active in there. Um, you know, you can even get inside there. I had a pin to the top where you can download those healthy desk jockey info cards that I mentioned and, and you can actually get the PSD format and you're great. You would need the graphics person to know how to do it in the software, but you could change out the color scheme, the logo and the clinic information and make them yours and utilize that inside your marketing.

So that'd be the best way to check us out. Nice. Well, awesome. Thanks for being on. This was, uh, I'm, I'm, I learned a lot, so I'm actually going to have to listen to this again before I let it go. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks so much, Dr. Chrissy for being on. Uh, as always, it's a pleasure. I learned a lot from you and a lot of the content that you put out. So everyone, if you did not get the multiple times we mentioned it, the place where you can encounter him and a lot of the material he puts out is the modern chiropractic marketing group on Facebook. If you're not on Facebook, just go over to podcasts.

By the way, if you don't listen to podcasts and you drive, you might as well listen to it on the drive. I guarantee you've heard all those songs you've already been hearing. multiple times and they're not going to change. So go on to the modern chiropractic marketing show. You can put it on iTunes. I don't know if it's on Google play because I'm a Apple guy. So, but go reach out to them. You're going to learn a ton from it. And again, if you are struggling and getting frustrated with not seeing the right type of person that you mesh well with in your practice or you're frustrated about, um, not getting the amount of patience and, um, you're, you're putting a lot of effort out there and you feel like you're having to get kind of sleazy in your marketing efforts.

There's a better way. As you've heard throughout this podcast and when you start developing the content that you're really going to, uh, enjoy making, you're going to actually going to enjoy the process and you're going to love promoting and giving this stuff out. You're going to think it's a disservice to not give out these, this content to those people who are in need of it. Now I'll talk to you guys next week. Again, leave people in how you found them. And if you are dating, dating an Eagle Scout, talk to you later.