How to lease your first clinic office without getting burned

That process, that process of review with the city can be expensive and it's not guaranteed. So that is another strategy consideration when you're looking for space. You know, the allure of the 95 cent or a dollar, you know, a square foot is very high, but they don't always welcome, you know. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone, this is Sebastian with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the Movement Movement.

This is your first time on the show. Welcome. You've missed a lot. We're probably around 200 and something at this point in time. And it's been, I mean, that's been, gosh, almost weekly. I know there's been a spurt of two, there's every couple of weeks for a while there in this last summer. But this has been a long show. And so hopefully if you're a chiropractor or a PT or a strength coach, that you're getting a lot of information from this. And hopefully it's helping you with your business as well as your patient outcome and just getting people better overall and getting them better quicker, empowering them and so on.

So first off, I think I should probably note today that I'm still tinkering with a new mic. We moved offices and so this is a new mic system. And so if it feels a little echoey, it's because I'm still tinkering with stuff. So hopefully I can improve that over time. But we have an interview today, as you can tell by the introduction. It's with Mike Clem. He is the real estate broker or the commercial real estate broker that I use to move my office. And so part of the reason why I was not doing something weekly over the last few months is because we had a big office transition. We moved offices to a different city and it was a lot of work to find places and actually negotiate too.

And so Mike made that a lot easier for me. I've negotiated rents on my own before, leases on my own before, and I don't advise that people do it. And so as you can see, after working with Mike, we've become friends. And I think he's going to have a lot of good information for you guys moving forward that if you have not leased an office space yet, or if you're just exiting school, or if you're considering moving, this is all going to be good information for you guys to learn from it. And I think it's entertaining too. Like we have good rapport. So hopefully that's helpful to you. This is definitely not one that a patient would benefit from.

I know a lot of the podcasts that we do are general public and some of our patients will get information from. But, you know, I've done a lot of informational-based ones over the years. And I love doing them, but, you know, sometimes I like doing things that I like doing. And so I think this will help you guys. It'll help the interns that have come through my office and they're leaving. And so I think this is needed information that has never been on the show before. So please share this with one of your colleagues you think would benefit from this. And let's get right into the interview with Mike Clem.

His contact information, if you want it, is at the very end and in the show notes. I'm over here at my house in my garage. Sitting on my daughter's – it's one of those hanging – Oh, I did see that last time I was over, so. They're hanging – her hanging anti-gravity chair. Yeah, that's – I see that the setup, it's – you're really trusting those rafters in the ceiling, huh? In that single strap that the hammock is coming down from. It really – it just oozes trust in the workmanship. Well, I installed the pull-up bar and all of my storage, my overhead storage things. Attached them all to the ceiling joists there and the rafters and I feel pretty good about it.

I feel pretty good about it. Yeah. Why don't you just get rid of so much stuff? You have so much stuff. Dude, it's what happens when you have four kids and a nostalgic wife and – Do you have an Atari up there? No, that's the thing. It's like we don't have like old crap. Like we actually use like – so this whole side up above is all holiday stuff and real estate related stuff and a little bit of long-term storage but not much. And then this side over here is like luggage and our car overhead container. And then this other thing again is like memorabilia, some other real estate stuff and then like, you know, odds and ends.

I like that when you – that one item up there, it's like I bought this off Amazon. I need it to store it. I'm just going to leave it right in the box. Like I'm not even going to change anything about this thing. I have no idea what's going on in the box. It's like – it looks like it's still sealed up. It's like, yeah, we're going to keep this for next year. You know, they did a good job of packaging it for us. Now you've got me. Now you've got me wondering. Is it treasure hunt? It is. What the hell is it here? I'm curious now. Oh, yeah. This is – this is leftover supplies from my wife's parents' 50th anniversary party that we hosted, 50th wedding anniversary, their golden anniversary.

So it's like, you know, I make nice napkins and have some other clothes. It's the kind of napkins that you're going to bring out at another holiday party later that have nothing to do with gold and they're just like leftover napkins and so on. Yeah. And unfortunately, I'm like a minimalist and you wouldn't know it from a garage, but I like minimal like things. I like, you know, the areas to be tidy. So, yeah, I guess I'm working here. I'm going to say 20, 25% of the stuff here either belongs to somebody else or it can just outright go. So, anyway. Okay. So, then is – so, why don't you tell everyone about yourself and then we – I wrote down a couple line items here of things and hopefully in the introduction I've probably already said who you are anyway.

So, tell everyone who you are. Okay. Yeah. I'm Mike Clem. I'm an attorney here. Wait. Hold on. Let me start over. My name is Mike Clem and I'm an attorney in California and also a licensed real estate broker. I've been licensed since, I guess, maybe 2004. So, a number of years. Focusing primarily in residential and commercial, really. It's a pretty even split. Anything from leasing, representing tenants like Sebastian Gonzales here, as well as landlords representation, buying, selling, and general property management. So, a little bit of everything. Cool. Well, so, we kind of discussed having you on to talk about – I guess the general topic would be how to lease or how to rent or lease your first building or office.

Because there's a lot of students who are going to be listening to this and they're going to be thinking, yeah, I have no idea where to start, you know. And it's – I think I really waited until – I was doing room renting until about three years out of school. And then I rented a place and that was the place that we – that I left that you got me into this basically, the second place. So, but you were – I didn't really have anyone the first time going through helping me with the negotiations on the first lease. But it's definitely – it's nicer to have somebody. And I know that people probably don't know that your – like your type of services, at least for renting, they don't pay anything until you secure the deal, right?

And that comes from the – that comes from the owner, correct? Correct. Yep. So, no, there's no way – there's no reason to not do it. Yeah. It's actually kind of funny because I've been involved, obviously – well, I've been self-employed for probably 20 years in practicing law and real estate transactions and also in some other businesses as well. And I'm actually a big fan of the – we call it like the eat what you kill sort of arrangement. For me, I just feel like it's a much more fair setup where like, hey, you know what? If we all win, then, you know, we all win, right? Easy. Yeah. And it's – I know that – I don't – I'm sure a lot of people don't know what to look for when they're actually looking for stuff too.

And so what is – maybe if we're talking – at least to start it off, like when someone's looking for stuff, what are a couple things that you might talk to them about or, you know, considerations when you first meet with somebody about leasing an office for the first time? Yeah. I think there's probably two kind of primary considerations before you even start looking. And that's really like, do you have your own existing client base so that you can, you know, maybe look for a space that you're not really relying on the visibility, the cross traffic and cars, that kind of thing? Because if you've got a built-in clientele kind of like yourself, it really opens up your options.

You know, you can find, you know, a building that's maybe kind of off the beaten path a little bit but maybe has a better floor plan. Some of those buildings – well, typically those buildings are much cheaper than the high traffic areas, right? So if you've got built-in clientele, then I think you've got a lot more options there. If you don't and you're going to rely on proximity to people and traffic and maybe complementary businesses, then that's going to, you know, I think necessitate a different strategy in where you're looking, what you're looking for, and possibly how much you're going to have to pay for it.

Yeah, so when – like actually, I guess I was unfamiliar about how much commercial actually costs right now for like something on – like so Beach Boulevard was what like – was going right like $3 to $4 a square foot or something like that. And I mean, like I know that I've driven around a lot of industrial spaces and we talked about that a bit when we were looking at things to do. But industrial is what, like $0.95 or something, and then like commercial, like retail is – I know we can go over zoning. We can go over a lot of shit today, huh? That's exactly what was coming to mind was zoning. I just decided to put all this out of my memory already, and then now that we're talking to you, I'm like, shit, I got to – I remember all this madness again now.

Yeah, so basically, let's cover zoning really quickly. So basically, the way that cities operate is they set up their cities in ways that they want to encourage or discourage different types of uses in different types of areas, right? And so, for example, if you want to go into like an industrial area like you mentioned, those areas are typically set up for larger kind of manufacturing or warehousing facilities. And because those types of facilities are usually in large part taken up by manufacturing equipment or storage racks and those kinds of things, they don't expect a lot of car traffic. They don't expect a lot of foot traffic, and so the parking in those areas are set up for these businesses that don't require a lot of parking, right?

But when you are a service provider like yourself, they do expect that you're going to have more doctors, more staff, more clients coming through. And so what they do in the cities is they say, all right, we're going to categorize different businesses in different ways, and we're going to assign a minimum parking need to accommodate that business. So, for example, a manufacturing business in a manufacturing zone, you might need two parking spaces for every 1,000 square feet, whereas if your business is not manufacturing, if your business is, say, chiropractic, the city might say, well, you're a different category, and that type of category, we foresee that you are going to need more like five parking spaces per 1,000 feet.

And those rules in the city are pretty hard and fast. It's difficult to get them to bend on that. Sometimes you can. Sometimes cities will take a manufacturing district and say, well, we actually want to change this over time into some different use, and so we are now open to other uses. We're going to take a hard look at it and see if it's what we want, but we're open to it. That process of review with the city can be expensive, and it's not guaranteed. So that is another strategy consideration when you're looking for space. So the allure of the 95 cent or a dollar a square foot is very high, but they don't always welcome your type of money.

Yeah. So I think, actually, when you're talking about the money on that, are you talking about conditional use, or is there a difference? Yeah. Yeah, conditional use. Exactly, yeah. So there's two types of, there's two ways that you can get, but I guess we could kind of describe as like a variance. You know, they're going to allow you to kind of bend, you know, their existing rules a little bit. One is what they call an administrative permit, generally, which is where you fit enough, you tick enough of their boxes where you can go up to the desk and say, hey, you know, I ticked most of your boxes.

And the city goes, okay, yeah, we like it. And they sign off right there at the desk. And that's nice because it's a very, very cheap and very quick sort of process. On the other hand, conditional use permit, it's a paperwork intensive, you know, money intensive. Do you mean like a city council meeting or inform your neighbors or something like that? Yeah, exactly. So first of all, you have to pay an application fee with the city, which can be thousands of dollars. And then you have to pay to have a mailer go out to all the neighbors in the area, usually within a certain distance, say 500 feet or a thousand feet, or sometimes, you know, a quarter mile.

It can be kind of some city by city. And then after you have the mailer go out, the public has enough time to sort of consider what you're proposing. Then it goes to, then it goes to city council and planning commission and they vote and, and they give the, of course, the public an opportunity to come and speak at the hearing or, or against you. And, and, and, and, and, you know, once we get through that process, sometimes for, for some businesses, in fact, I have a client right now, um, where the city was going to require a traffic impact report. We have to now hire an outside vendor that specializes in counting cars and see, you know, exactly what the impact is going to be, um, in that area.

Uh, and then, then they, they, they do some calculations. They, they look at your type of business and they say, well, this type of business, we expect, you know, this many visits per day, per week, per month. Um, and, uh, and, uh, and what kind of impact that's going to have on the roads and, and some of the other infrastructure in the area. And that part is also very expensive. That can be as much as, or more than, uh, um, the conditional use permit applications that, that can also run you thousands of dollars. So in the, in the case of this other client, um, uh, they were looking at potentially having to spend, you know, 10, 12, $15,000, uh, for, for what ultimately is, uh, a maybe.

Not guaranteed, right? Not guaranteed. So, um, so, you know, you, you better, you better really want it. You better really want it to drop that kind of money. Yeah. Well, I know that, um, probably something that'll come to mind for some of the listeners. And I know we had discussed a little bit, so I really want this industrial space, you know, like it's, uh, you know, it's kind of the feel I want. I don't need walk up traffic and I just want an area where I can have like a bunch of gym equipment and blah, blah, blah. It's like, why does the, why does the CrossFit gym down the street get to do this when they have literally 20, 30 people come to a, to a single session?

And why is this such a challenge for, for healthcare to get this type of slot, you know? Right. Yeah. Um, could be a number of things. Um, so sometimes, um, you know, the city will, what they call spot zone, which means they will take an area where it's not normally contemplated. And they'll say, well, you know, times are changing and we're going to go ahead and allow this one-off kind of use. Um, and, and what you don't know is, is how much that, you know, CrossFit gym had to go through, um, to get that, to get that spot zone. Right. Um, and so, so it's, it's really, it's really a similar process.

You know, you, you just have to do your homework. You have to talk to, you know, the city council people, sometimes understanding, um, which direction the city is trying to mold an area will give you some insight as to whether or not you have a high likelihood or a low likelihood of success. Um, and so that's why, um, in commercial real estate, it's, it's oftentimes really helpful to a work with somebody, um, who understands the process of working with the city, um, and be someone who, um, who, who is willing to kind of dig a little deeper, maybe get a little creative, um, and working with the city, um, and finding, you know, solutions.

Because a lot of these solutions that they don't really present themselves, uh, out, you know, right. You know, they usually don't jump out right in front of your face. You gotta, you gotta dig in a little bit, uh, and get, and get crafty and, and be, you know, a little scrappy sometimes. Well, I think it would, um, so you were mentioning, um, in the past about the city won't outright tell you what you want to, what you want to know. You have to ask probing questions. Sometimes. Yeah. It's crazy. I mean, it's, it's actually kind of maddening to be honest. Um, it really is. Sometimes you come across someone who is just awesome, uh, and very helpful and they take the time and walk you through, you know, things and, and have these conversations with you and, and, and their city.

And so of course they're never going to give you any, any definitive answer when, when, when, when the answer isn't clear. Right. And so fair, fair enough. Right. Cause they, they have to, they have to watch themselves. Um, but I, you know, I've, I've, I've worked with people in the cities that, um, that I would say to put it diplomatically gave me insights, um, that, that were really helpful that I think helped guide our decision, whether or not to pursue a conditional use permit. Um, and that's, I mean, that, that kind of stuff is super helpful, right? Because we're all entrepreneurs, right?

So we're all optimistic at heart. Uh, and so we believe there's a chance, right? We want to believe there's a chance, right? Um, and then, and then, and then you come across other people in the city that, uh, are, are just, uh, the definition of, you know, um, apathetic, you know, um, you know, city person, no accountability. Uh, they forget that they are actually supposed to be there to like serve the public. Uh, you know, it's, um, it can, it can be very, very frustrating at times. So again, that's why I say, you know, yeah, I know what you're doing. Um, and, and if you find, you know, that you're stumbling in an area, uh, it's time to get scrappy and dig a little deeper and ask some more questions and maybe call a different person, uh, call several different people, you know, within the city to try to try to get a different conversation going.

Um, and yeah, you just have to, you just have to, you know, sometimes you gotta just kind of keep at it. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's good. The, uh, so now say we, we've found. One place that we like, or at least a couple of places, uh, what is someone like, what does someone do in that situation? Like what are, um, I know we probably talk about durations of time, 10 improvements, um, floor plans. What can you expect? Things like that. Yeah, sure. Um, so yeah, so assuming that you've got, you know, a place or two that, uh, you've got a clear path to the city for, for getting your, you know, getting your business license.

Um, then yeah, then, then, then, then you get to go deal with the landlord. Uh, and in your particular case, uh, you got lucky because you got, uh, I think, um, a great landlord. Um, um, as, as luck may have it, um, our, our office actually used to have office space in that same building for many years. Um, you know, Mark, um, the dude, uh, he got office space on site, keeps a clean building, great security. Um, and he knows that he is taking care of a long-term investment, uh, and thus, um, is happy to, um, invest smart money into his building to keep tenants happy. And there for a long time.

Um, so that was great, right? Um, you know, we were, I mean, it really didn't take much negotiating with him. We asked and he said, yes. And, and how does your place look, by the way? What kind of, what kind of job would you do? Yeah, it looks, it looks great. I think, uh, did I show you pictures yet? I haven't been over there. No, I got to come back. Oh, I got to show you pictures there. There was a couple of the, uh, like the, the improvements that came late, such as the air conditioning came late. And so there were a few things where like, cause actually funny, a lady came in this morning and she's like, she's like, is this carpet clean?

And I said, well, if it's not, it's only a month old, you know, but there are, there are a couple spots. Cause like, like we decided to go like a shoeless office, you know, clean socks. Don't, don't come in with fungus type of thing, but also don't walk in with your shoes on and then have poo on them. Or, you know, tar and so on. But there is a couple, there is a spot already, a couple of spots where I'm like, God, this is probably the contractors already. Cause they came in late. So, um, the spot though is like beautiful. Like everybody likes it. They think it looks bigger than the other place, even though it's a little smaller.

Um, and then that bathroom is just gigantic, man. I feel like I can just do like, like, uh, like snow angels on the ground in it. Not that I, not that I want it that big, but, uh, it is, it is. So, but yeah, everyone, everyone likes it. Yeah. So that's the thing, right. You want to, so you want to walk into a space and you want to look at, you know, you want to look at the configuration, the walls, uh, the rooms. Um, you want to, um, if you're, if you're thinking about, you know, um, reconfiguring it in some way, maybe removing a wall or, or, or maybe even putting up a wall somewhere. Um, you know, you want to, you want to kind of go through that, uh, in your particular case, uh, you had a, um, existing, uh, drop ceiling, I believe.

Right. And so we had that, we had that removed. Isn't that right? Yep. Yeah. He removed that. He put some, um, he put some insulation up there and then they, they changed out the sprinkler heads, right, right. They turned those up, right. And gave you some more head space, um, makes the space look larger and feel larger. I think that, um, I think that contributes to the experience of the client when they come in, it just feels a little more luxurious, I guess you could say. Um, and so, yeah, so you want to look at, you want to look at that. You want to look at the carpet. You want to look at, uh, the linoleum in the bathroom, the tiles and, you know, is it, is it scuffed and dirty and nasty and, and what kind of finishings are there?

Um, and so, yeah, you, you want to, you want to, um, you want to have the place look as nice as you possibly can. And in your case, you've got a landlord who's happy to do that for you at his expense. That was cool. Um, and, um, it didn't cost you a dime. So, um, now did he also, did you, were you able to get, uh, any, uh, rent abatement? I, I, I, I don't recall. No, we didn't. Uh, I did try a little bit of unknowing. I remember I came, I know if I told you, I came in and scrubbed the pipes on the ceiling. Uh, cause that was an unforeseeable thing. Once they opened the ceiling, the pipes were rusty.

Um, and so I came in and did all that. And then, and then the, uh, the, the base of the foreman, he came, he came in and he's like, wow, you're like, like, you really care. Like, I'm going to tell the owner, you know, like maybe he gives you like, maybe he gives you like free rental for a little bit. I'm like, great, go ahead, go ahead and tell him, you know, um, but we didn't see anything yet. It was funny actually the other day, I think I told you, I like paying my rent really early. And so I already paid him early for a couple of months. And so it was all the way through December. And so I saw him just the other day and I came out holding another couple of checks and he's like, I don't want that.

I was like, why not? He's like, I don't want to pay taxes on it right now. So at least he's, you know, like, this is like the landlord experience is like, at least he's very straightforward. You know, he doesn't bullshit. He's like, he's like, you can give it to me, but I'm going to, I'm going to hold on to it to the first and then I'm going to cash it. Is that cool with you? I said, uh, I'll just keep it in my office for now, but I'm going to give you like four months, like straight away, like on the first. So that's awesome. No, he, he's an interesting guy. He is a very interesting guy. He's very straightforward.

Um, he's smart. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, I, you know, it was a pleasure doing business with him, but I think that, um, that you didn't get the rent abatement is probably because if you and I discussed, he probably put, I don't know, 10 or 15, $20,000 worth of work into the place. I mean, he did quite a bit of work in there. Yeah. And, um, I know we had talked a little bit about like the, cause we have a five-year lease. Um, and we had talked about like, you know, is like going forward, I don't know if we're going to like, there was no options. I know that, you know, people might be feeling familiar with options.

So we didn't do any options and, and, uh, it's like, well, he wouldn't be throwing all this money into it if he would, didn't, you know, want to keep like, it just costs him more money to have another render come in. So we just be good people, nice renters. And then there's no reason for him to, if he keeps us here, there's not like, it's not like it costs him any more money. So, yeah, yeah, exactly. And so that's, that's where, um, the idea of an option is kind of interesting. So an option essentially is where you, the tenant, um, at the end of your first, um, term, right? Say it's three years or five years or two years or whatever it is, uh, at the end of that term, or usually a certain number of months before the term ends, uh, you go, you go to your landlord if you have an option and you say, I am going to exercise my option.

Um, and usually the option year, the number of years on the option will usually match the number of years on your lease. So in your case, for example, if you were to have given you an option, it probably would have been for another five years. Um, but, um, yeah, especially when you are putting money into a place, uh, and improving it, uh, you want to know that you've got a home there and that you're going to get the most out of your investment, right? So, so for example, if let's say, let's say he didn't put the money into the place and you put 20 grand in your place. Um, usually what a landlord will do is they'll give you either, um, some TI dollars, right?

Or they'll do the work themselves, TI being tenant improvement. So he, he did a lot of, he did a lot of TI work for you and from a work for you. Um, so they'll either give you tenant improvement budget dollars, or they'll give you a certain number of months for free, um, free rent essentially. Um, or sometimes a combination of the two. And so, so for example, if you were to put 20, 20 grand into the place yourself, uh, well, you'd want to know that you're going to be there for, you know, for as long as possible. Right. So certainly the five years, the first term, and ideally, you know, he gives you an opportunity to lock it in for another five years, um, uh, for the option period.

Um, and I, and I've seen, you know, I've seen people get, you know, one option, I've seen people get two and sometimes three options. You know, it's a really extended lease that I was working on a, you know, a transaction, um, um, this last week, I guess that had a first term of 10 years and then, uh, three, five year options after that. So potentially, you know, the tenant could have been there, um, or could, could still be there, you know, for 25 years total. And I'm interesting. Yeah. And I know that we had talked about with, we were discussing some of the options, uh, when we presented them to the other people with the other, uh, the other buildings we were looking at was, um, sometimes when you do options, you can ask for even, um, some rent abatement too at that point.

Right. It's, uh, so, so I didn't even know that. So, yeah, I usually try, I like, I, I like to, um, I like to hide like, you know, Easter eggs, uh, in, in some of these contracts, you know, like, Hey, you know, if I'm going to lock in another five years, well, you know, get, give me a couple of months, you know, free of rent, uh, when I do that so that, you know, maybe I can pay for some new signage or, or, you know, uh, put, put some, you know, new carpet in the place or buy some new equipment or maybe do some marketing, um, and maybe throw a, you know, an anniversary party or, you know, give me, give me, you know, give, give me something for locking in so that I can, uh, you know, put, put it back into my business or into your building or, or whatever the case may be.

Um, and it's kind of fun because, um, whenever, whenever we successfully negotiate those, rent abatements, I'll set a calendar out for, you know, three years or five years or whatever it is. Um, and, uh, and then follow up with the client, uh, with an email, you know, as the date draws near, it says, Hey, don't forget, you know, you got some free rent coming your way. And oftentimes they'll forget, you know, I'm like, Oh yeah, that's right. That's awesome. Like, yeah, dude, they'll enjoy. So yeah, I, yeah, I'll always try to sneak that in there. Um, um, yeah, it's probably successful, you know, 50% of the times a lot of landlords are open to it.

You know, they'd rather not have a vacancy, um, not have turnover, not have to, you know, remarket the property and go through that. Cause usually that takes longer than, you know, a couple of months. Um, so, um, so they're, they're happy to, they're happy to, to, they give you a little attaboy, you know, for exercising options. You're doing all that, that Easter egg. You just, you just have to feel good stuff. You just want to feel good. You want to pull the George Costanza and just tell a joke and walk out of the room as long as it's good. Exactly. Well, again, though, as an entrepreneur, you know, like, you know, the, the feeling and the experience that you give to a client, uh, means a lot, right?

Uh, certainly what can mean a lot, not, not, it doesn't mean a lot to every client, but the ones that do, it really does mean a lot. Um, and, uh, and, and I'm, I'm that way. I, you know, I, I feed off of that. And so, uh, yeah, I, I, I enjoy that. And also, I don't know if you're familiar with the, um, the book, the, the five love languages. Oh yeah. Yeah. One of the love languages is the giving and receiving of gifts. And that happens to be one of my love languages. So yeah, I dig it. I dig it. It makes me feel good. All right. I'm going to give you some of that beards, uh, like a beard, uh, twister.

What do they call that? Is it a must mustache? Moose. Mustache wax. Yeah. Let me give you some mustache wax. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I did. I did actually read that book. And, uh, it's, it's funny because, uh, me and me and Allie, like, I'm sure she read it too, but like hers isn't gift at all. And like, you know, like I'm not, I'm not really gifts too much either. So it's like Christmas comes along and I'm like, what do you want? And she's like, I really want to click her for the gate for the complex. You know, it's just like, it's like, don't, she's like, don't give me anything. I'm like, okay, cool.

Don't get me. I'm like, this is great. No, my wife is also like that. And so I invariably give her practical gifts. Like, Hey, what do you want? You know, for Christmas? Oh, I want to, you know, want a $300, uh, cast iron, you know, lay crusade Dutch oven. Like I can make, you know, food. Okay. Then the downside of that of course, is that like, you know, I'm, I'm always eager, you know, or ready to receive, you know, a nice gift. And, uh, I never get it from her. Yeah. I can't say no. You, you, you gotta, you gotta leave them. You gotta leave the note and said, you know, like, cause don't people, according to that book, doesn't it?

People oftentimes express the gift, express the love language that they want to get back. Like I just unknowingly, cause that's the way they, they know it. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah. So, so Dina, you know, and it's a words of affirmation. My wife, she loves words of affirmation, right? So she's always telling me, you know, how proud she is of me and, and, you know, giving me all these compliments and I could care less. Cause it doesn't mean anything to me. And of course I never give her the words. I mean, I, I, I do, you know, sometimes, but not, you know, not, not as frequently as she does for me.

So you're absolutely right about that. Absolutely. You should just make some t-shirts about compliment me today, you know, give them, give them to her. It's just a walking billboard, a reminder that you should be given her words of affirmation. Exactly. Yeah. So, um, yeah, so anyway, so yeah, so that's, that's tenant improvement dollars and, um, and options and rent abatement. Um, and that, you know, that kind of stuff is another area of negotiation with, um, with the, um, landlord. Uh, and then I guess we could also talk about, um, cam common area maintenance, right? Ooh, that's a good topic.

We're, we're modified gross here, I think. Right. Yeah. So there's a few ways that they express, um, what exactly it is, but essentially what we're talking about is the idea that when somebody advertises the rent at, I don't know, let's say $2 a foot, it's actually not $2 a foot. It's $2 a foot plus, you know, plus the other stuff. Unless, unless it says $2 a square foot gross. And what that means is gross. It means that $2 a foot all in and that all in includes, you know, your landscaper maintenance guy and, uh, your exterior lighting bill and the, um, maintenance of the rain gutters. And in your case, you guys have a great security system, you know, outside the building and, um, uh, all of the expenses that, uh, that a landlord has, um, to, to maintain, uh, and own a building, right.

Including property taxes, including roof repairs, you got to get the parking lot, you know, re-slurried and re-striped. Um, uh, you, you mentioned air conditioning earlier, right? Air conditioning is, is, is quite expensive. Uh, so all of those little things. Um, and so, so when it's not gross, right, when it's not a, a, a single price all in, um, they, they talk about industrial gross or modified gross or triple net and any of those terms really is just another way to say it's, it's $2 a square foot plus some other stuff. Um, you know, I was, I was thinking about this. So I did, uh, I don't recall, did that in California, did that one measure pass that was the taxing property or commercial 15?

Uh, it did not, it did not pass. So if that, if that did pass, would that have then, so it like in, in the, in the light of triple net, would that have changed people's triple net? Um, would that have, that would have happened? Possibly, possibly, depending on how the lease is read. Um, so a clever, uh, landlord, I'm sorry, a clever, uh, tenant attorney, uh, or a broker or whatever the case may be, or even, even a clever tenant in your case, because you actually, um, negotiated a hell of a lease, uh, on your first property. Um, you know, I talked about it quite a bit and I was, uh, I was impressed with, um, some of the things that you want in there.

You wanted to hire me, huh? That it was like, like this guy can be an attorney and a, and a broker. And you gave me, you, you, you, you actually gave me a lot of insights that I'd never even considered before. No, I'm just kidding. You were, you were insightful. Do I, am I wearing that shirt words of affirmation on my chest? Yeah, you might be. Uh, no, no, but I was impressed because most tenants, um, they, they, they, they don't know, they, you know, they may not even have, have, have considered, you know, I could tell at that time that either, either you talk to somebody and they give you some good advice or you're just an outside the box thinker, uh, who believes in something that I learned also, um, when I was young, that was super empowering, which is, if you don't ask, you don't get.

Right. Yeah. And so you clearly did a lot of asking, um, you know, when you negotiated your lease and, and you got a lot too, you got, you got, you know, like I said, you negotiated a nice, a nice lease for yourself. So that was cool. It's good, it's good to, good to see that because, um, it's a lot easier to work with somebody that, um, kind of, you know, kind of, kind of knows, you know, a little bit about it, um, to begin with. So, um, so to answer your question about Prop 15, um, maybe, maybe not, uh, so a clever tenant attorney, uh, or broker would, um, would word the, uh, the cam or the triple net fees in such a way that could limit them as much as possible.

Um, most of the time that doesn't happen. In fact, most of the time landlords like to word the language, uh, surrounding the cam and triple net, um, very broadly, um, and not only for the present, but also in the future. So for example, uh, again, I'm, I'm working around a lease right now where the landlord's language is like, basically like, you know, landlord has the right to, to, you know, uh, charge, you know, the tenants for anything now or later. So if Prop 15 were to have passed and if his property taxes were to have gone up, uh, and if in the lease, it says very, very broadly that, you know, um, tenant is responsible for their share of, you know, property taxes and yeah, yeah, your, your, your cam, you know, would go up in that case.

I would imagine if that was like, say, say someone owned that building for 30 years, you know, or something. And they paid, I'll just make up a number, you know, $500,000 for it. And now it was reassessed at the taxes that were like $5 million. Like that's a big jump in property tax that you have to share with all the tenants. I would imagine like that would just really hurt. Yeah. Well, it's, it's trickle down economics, right? So it's, uh, it's, Hey, uh, tenant, you know, your, your cam fee went from, you know, $500 a year to $5,000 a year. Right. Uh, so your rent has just gone up, you know, that is, you know, for a month.

Uh, so I mean, what, what are you going to do as a business owner? Are you just going to eat that? Probably not. You're going to have to raise your prices. Right. So where, where does that tax increase land lands in my pocket when I go, you know, to have you, you know, crack my neck or, or, or lands, um, how about this? Right. It lands in the, on the pockets of, um, insurance premiums that are now going up because, uh, the reimbursement, right. As to, you know, is, is, is being increased. Right. So, so again, then what happens, right? Passive insurance goes up. Yeah. I'm actually surprised that one didn't pass.

I thought that one was, it was, it was kind of, it was a, I, I, I saw that I was looking at the numbers of, it was, I think 60% had reported at the time. And I'm like, it said 51%. I'm like, Oh my God, this is, that's, that's really close. Either way, all this could, this could change the game. My, so my, my friend who's, he's a, he's a broker for, uh, for real, for a commercial and, I'm sorry, for a residential. And so he owns a couple of properties and, uh, he was, yeah, you know, we were eating one time and he was telling me about this. Like he, I think he had talked about it earlier in the year and I didn't know anything about it.

And he's like, he's like, I'm like, I'm like, but that is, I'm like, does that affect you? And he's like, no, but he's like, he's like, I really think there's a slippery slope. You know, like if it, if it goes down for commercial, if it goes down for residential too, he's like, a lot of people are going to be hurting a lot. But, um, anyways, that was his thought with it, but I'm, I'm actually surprised it went. No, I'm a little surprised too. I'm glad to see that. Um, but yeah, what it's California and not to get too political, but they, um, you know, my expectation is that they will continue to try to increase, you know, uh, tax revenue, uh, wherever they can.

Um, and, um, and this erosion of property rights, um, you know, is, um, you know, that this, this is not their final battle. This is, you know, this is just one step, you know, in, in their, in their quest, you know, for, for tax money, their thirst, their thirst is insatiable. Um, what, what else we've got to cover? I think these are all really good points really already for real. I mean, I bet you're, I bet we're already freaking out every person who's ever, uh, who's, who's never looked for a lease before thinking, holy shit, I don't know how to read all this, uh, jargon. I don't, I don't know.

So I don't know. I, I, I think I know the answer, but would you even suggest anybody do it on their, on their own? I wouldn't. I mean, you did a good job. I mean, not to say that I would suggest that you do it on your own. Um, I had someone look it over though, like just for like basic, they basically said, oh, this is, they said, oh, this is template stuff. Like, it's not scary. There's nothing, but like easily something could have slipped by me. Um, I wrote the, I wrote the addendum and the asking things on that one. That's why those went that way. But, um, he's a, could have slid something else underneath in the jargon, you know?

Yeah. So what I do, um, when I, when I look, um, when I do kind of first read through is I look for, um, I look for one sided language. Um, so for example, if, uh, a landlord receives a benefit, um, I want to see that, um, if there's an opportunity for the tenant to receive the same kind of benefit, it's in there. Uh, I also look for overly broad language, um, you know, and try to, try to negotiate that to be either taken out entirely, or if they won't agree to that, um, to, um, kind of narrow it down and, and, and kind of define it a little bit better. Um, because again, landlords like to make things very broad and inclusive, uh, not only now, but in the future.

And, um, and you know, when I'm negotiating, you know, when I'm representing a landlord, that's the language I put in there. Uh, but when I'm negotiating for a tenant, uh, you know, I try to, I try to tighten it up a little bit. Um, so yeah. And the problem too is like, yeah, I had a professor, um, in undergrad that it was, it was a pre-law class. It was actually, it was a constitutional law class. Um, he, he was a, he was a litigator, uh, attorney, uh, and a professor. Um, and it was my first kind of introduction to a very much a law school type format, uh, class in terms of what we read, uh, the types of tests that we take, you know, these kinds of things.

It was structured exactly like, um, a law school class pretty much. And so what he told us early on was you read these cases, they're dense and they're confusing. It's like, read them, read it first time. Like it's a bad novel and you don't expect to like, remember anything or learn anything. Just, just get through it. Just read it. He said, and then, you know, set it down for an hour or whatever, you know, go back and read it again. Right. And, you know, expect that you will start to understand things. Then it's like, and that second read, you know, you, you might bring in a highlighter, you know, you, you might, you might, you might highlight, you know, a little thing here, a little thing there, you know, set it down for a while.

You're the third time. And at the time you're in your third reading, you should be highlighting key components. You should be taking some notes in the margin. You know, things should start to make a lot more sense. So that's, that's usually what I do with these leases, especially the ones that aren't on the templates, because the more higher end properties, they don't typically use the templates. I read through it once, I'm looking for overly broad, unfair language, trying to get some of those base level protections down. And then, and then I'll go back and read through the provisions again and start to understand a little bit more.

And then that way, when you're fighting back against these, you understand kind of what they mean and what their landlord might be trying to accomplish. And then that way you can discuss these a little more meaningfully and you can make your arguments for your tenant while keeping in mind the landlord's goals. And when you have that knowledge, I feel like landlord's counsel, you know, and landlord, it's a little bit easier to find some common ground when you really, when you have an understanding of what their goals are. And then, then of course you can articulate your client, the tenant's goals.

And if you're dealing with a reasonable landlord, you know, you'll find some common ground and, and it will no longer be so one-sided. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, the thing that, you know, when, like when I was going through and talking to original people, like leasing year or, or owners years ago was, I was kind of a, I was kind of scared to ask stuff. And I thought like, Oh, this is kind of like, you know, uh, like asking for a rewording here and so on. It's just like, I'm bothering them, you know? And, uh, you know, I, I, I kind of forget the, uh, the thing that, you know, they have a goal of, of renting the place, you know?

And so they, they want it, they probably want to entertain and meet some way in the middle too. So if they're reasonable, yeah. You know, if they're a slumlord and their, and their plan is to overcharge you and not do a thing to the building, uh, and put all the costs on you, um, and give you nothing in return. Um, then, you know, you might want to think twice about that location. You know, if, if, you know, if you have to have the location, um, then yeah, you're going to have to make some concessions. Uh, but these terms really do mean something. And, and when they go to enforce them down the road, um, you know, be ready for it.

Yeah. You know, you reminded me of, uh, like when, when I first started looking for places years, years ago, but I mean, with the other lease, I looked at probably like three, four places. And I thought, yeah, this is the place, you know? And then, uh, you know, I start talking to the guy a little bit. It doesn't feel right. You know, second story type of thing. And I'm like, ah, okay. And that one didn't work. Right. And I go to another one. I'm like, this is the place. Like I can tell, like, you know, you get kind of emotional about it, but it's like my dad, you know, my dad told me like, you got to be willing to walk away from the deal.

And, uh, and so I did a couple of times and I ran into that last one, which the good, that one lasted me about eight years. And that was good. Um, and then we went to go look at places where there was that one, that second story one where I was trying to make it work. Right. And then, uh, we had the guy upstairs, go ahead and jump, you know, like act like we're dropping. And it was like, yo, we can still make it work. Um, that didn't, that didn't work. And then the bathroom, the new bathroom install would have been the 50, what? 50 grand or more or something. Oh yeah, no, it was crazy. And the funniest thing about, um, that, that experiment that we did with the guy on the third floor, you know, picking up the desk and simulating a weight drop.

Um, what was the person that would have been below you? Like, Oh, they like, like a sleep therapist. Yeah. He was something he was, no, I think he was like a proctologist or something. It was, it was, it was, it was something. Oh no, it was colon cleansing. Colon cleansing. Was it? Yeah. Colon cleansing. You don't want anybody to be startled below you during that procedure. Yeah. Because someone dropped a weight or whatever. Yeah. Talk about, talk about needing to be a focus on your game, man. That's like the most sort of sensitive of issues. Yeah. Well, that's the, that wouldn't have worked even now.

Actually, I didn't realize until this week here, it doesn't bother me, but, um, there's an esthetician upstairs and, uh, uh, I haven't heard anything for the whole month. And all of a sudden, I think she started to get fancy and wear high heels. And so you can hear that. I'm like, man, she's, she's walking around a lot today. You can hear, you know, it's like a ghost up there. So, but we're not a quiet, quiet clinic anyways, but, and thank God we're two doors down from the float therapy. So that would have been, I went in there the other day and, uh, I heard some boom come from somewhere. I'm like, you know, it kind of woke me up.

I splashed, you know, uh, I'm like, God, I think we got to make sure we're quiet, you know, a little bit more in case it goes through two units. Wait, so were you in there doing a float therapy? Yeah, I did. I liked it. Yeah. Um, was the owner there, I think his name is, um, Ron. Ron. Yeah. I talked, I talked to Ron. Yeah. He was, he was a nice guy. So yeah. Our kids, uh, our kids have kind of grown up together. They're, um, the same age as, uh, I think my daughter, um, and, uh, he and his wife bought a house in our neighborhood that my wife and I were looking at, um, and considering, uh, you know, this is, um, this is, uh, almost 10.

Um, yeah, I guess almost 10 years ago now. Um, but, uh, yeah, they're, they're very, very, very cool. Very cool. Yeah. He, yeah, he was, he was nice. It was, uh, um, yeah, he was just chilling there. Like I was, I don't know what he did before. I didn't get that far to ask, but, um, he's just wearing flip-flops to work and stuff. I'm like, man, you got the job. He's like, yeah, I've been waiting for years to do this. So, yeah, he, yeah, he was, um, he was in real estate actually. Um, not sure exactly what he did, but I know at one point, um, he did a lot of, uh, property appraisals and, um, and he's also, uh, originally, I think from the South Bay, uh, Redona Beach.

Um, and I'm not sure if he grew up there, but I, I grew up in the South Bay. Um, and so we had this kind of connection with the South Bay and he had a, he had some, some rental properties out there and, and, um, sold, sold the appraisal company and properties and moved out down this way. And, um, and we're just kind of sitting around like, you know, like what, what next? And yeah, he opened up, uh, you know, just random therapy thing. I don't know how many years ago now I thought like, wow, that is just so weird and random. And sure enough, over time he's expanded and, and, um, he's, he's doing pretty well.

And, uh, he's got, you know, some staff in the other, and he, you know, puts around in his flip-flops. And that's, that's been his uniform since I've known him really. Yeah. It was, it was, it was nice. It was a good experience. At first I thought, man, this is just going to be terrible. I'm going to be jumping off the walls and shit like a flea, you know? And, uh, I was in there for the hour and I, there was, you know, like, you know, when some people fall asleep, they twitch. And so I got a little twitch, you know, and I started, so the splashing was happening and I'm like, what's going on in here?

You know, what's going on in here? But, uh. Did the splash happen because of your twitch? Yeah, it was my twitch, yeah. Cause, cause like, you know, cause you're just laying there. The tub is big enough where, or I'm small enough where I'm not really touching the sides. And so the temperature is exactly where your body temperature is at, or it's pretty, pretty darn close where you can't tell. It's like you're in space. Right. And, uh, so there's nothing going on. I shut off all the lights and stuff in there. You had the light option if you wanted to. Um, but he's like, oh, you're going to zonk out a little bit.

I'm like, doubt it. I'm not thinking so. You know, like that ain't going to happen. And so, but, um, yeah, it was good. I came back to the office cause it's like two doors down and, uh, my first patient was sitting there and she's like, oh, just get out, get out of the beach. I'm like, nope, started to float. And so, um, everything she was talking about with her, I was just joking with her, but she's like, yeah, this hurts. I'm like, you know, you should probably just float more, you know? It was like the whole day. I'm just telling people, well, you should go float, you know? So you enjoyed it, huh?

I did. I'll, I think I'll go back once a month or so, you know, it was nice. Nice shower afterwards, like a rain head shower and everything, organic soaps. And yeah, I would suggest the earplugs for the ears though. Cause apparently the salt gets in there and one of the interns went into and he's like, yeah, there's a, yeah, my, at the end of the day, he's like, yeah, my, I still got salt coming out of my ears. So, but anyways. Tangent topic. Um, so as we start to close up here soon, then is there anything you think we, uh, we should cover, uh, lastly about, uh, about leasing people's first office?

Yeah. Well, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head really, uh, in what your dad, um, the advice your dad gave you, which is very sage. Like it's, um, be ready to walk away. Um, you know, don't, don't try to put a square peg into a round hole because, um, trust your gut, right? Yeah. Trust your gut. Um, you got a good landlord. Uh, they're, they're easy to work with. Um, in fact, here's a perfect example. I got a client that I'm working with right now. And at the end of the deal, we had two places that, um, that, um, were suitable for their business. And one particular space I liked a lot.

I love the location. I love the size. Um, I just thought that it was really, really, um, I thought it was the right space. It was, we had to claw our way, uh, to, to work with this landlord. Um, he was terrible. He was absolutely terrible. Um, I don't want to get into it, but anyways, it was terrible. Uh, and so, so the other location, uh, the client actually, um, preferred is closer to their current location. And as I, and so ultimately we made the decision to go with the other location, uh, the one that I initially didn't like, um, for two reasons. Number one, it's closer to his current location, which is always, uh, which is always better to move close, you know, to stay as close as you can to, to where you want to move in most cases.

Um, and, um, and as I got to know the areas surrounding, uh, the, the, you know, this, this, this location that I initially didn't like, uh, began to become clear to me that it really was a fantastic location. The size was just not what, what, what, what the client and I had hoped for. It was smaller than, than, than what we were kind of shooting for. And the other location was plenty of space. Um, so we ultimately made the decision, um, based on location. Um, proximity. Uh, and also as a, as a kind of a side issue, um, we felt that, um, based on how the landlord was working with us just to get to this point, we didn't expect it to improve during the course of the lease.

You know? And so that, that actually helped make the ultimate decision pretty easy because, um, you know, the, the, the second space, you know, the landlord was fine. Those were good to kind of progress like a normal transaction. Uh, but this first landlord, like he was, yeah, it was, it was, uh, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, just rigid, rigid and non-responsive, uh, drag it out and, and slow play you. And, and so, yeah. So again, like, you know, there's a problem with the building, you know, what do you think he's going to do? Is he going to hop right on it? Probably not.

Um, yeah, you know, in anything that can go wrong, you know, this guy is going to treat you like he's always treated you, right? So that was, that was a gut check moment and it helped, I think, make the other, you know, the other factors, um, kind of come, come to life a little more. I, I, that's what I would say really is like, you know, don't get caught up in the emotion and the excitement of looking for the place and the location or whatever. Look at some of the other issues, look at some of the other, um, some of the other things that are kind of ancillary through the deal, um, but are certainly going to be a part of the deal in the future.

You know, and one of that is like, you know, do you, do you like your landlord? Do you, do you like the property manager? Um, if you don't, then, you know, give it, give it a lot of thought because you can expect the same behavior from them, right? Tigers don't change their stripes. And so they're, you know, they're hard to work with, uh, in the beginning, they're not going to be any easier to work with once you move in. That's for sure. Yeah, I agree. I think, uh, yeah, I always like, I like doing business with people I trust, you know, cause at least then, I mean, at least then you, you need to think that they don't like, they're not trying to be, you know, malicious in, you know, like some of their actions with you.

It's just, you know, meet, meet some way you like be able to communicate about it. And yeah, the, not the non-response, it's basically a date, you know, it's like if the first date doesn't go well and the person, you know, like throws their beer in your face and it's like, I don't think I want to pursue this no matter how much, you know, like, yeah. Stands you up, shows up late, you know, not very interesting to talk to like, okay. Yeah. You might be like, you know, nice to look at, but, um, yeah, how can, how can people reach you actually, where are you, where are you, uh, are you licensed only in California?

Is there other, cause there's listeners from other areas in case they have any, like, I think people should just call Mike if they need some help, but where are you, is it only California? Is there other spots? No, it's, yeah, it's, it's only California, but I do have, um, I have colleagues, uh, that are in other States. So, uh, you know, if, if someone is at a state and, uh, they're interested, um, um, you know, if I got somebody in that state that I trust, uh, I'll be happy to, you know, to make an introduction. Um, but yeah, if you want to email me, um, the, uh, real estate, uh, email address is Mike at origin, r.e.com.

And that's O R I G I N R E like real estate, the Mike at origin, r.e.com. And, um, and I give out my cell number, man, it's 949-295-5299. Say it one more time. Cause I was laughing at you 949-295-5299. Uh, I usually, as you pick up, uh, but, um, you can pay me a text, um, and, uh, and, uh, you know, I'm always happy to help. Okay. Yeah. And so I think everybody should probably know, I don't get any money for suggesting Mike at all. So, um, the, like my experience with working with, with some of the, Oh, the phones are out there. That's a good problem to have. That's a good, um, so yeah, I don't, I don't get anything for it.

So I've, I've worked with a couple other brokers and they just, uh, you know, just haven't, we haven't jived really well and it's just, they haven't responded. They haven't presented properties in front of me. And so, you know, uh, so you're my best experience with anybody so far and, uh, you're fun to talk to you as well. So, and, uh, you like, you like steaks. So everyone likes that. Did you, did you, I don't recall, did, did we, did we share with your listeners the event that will find us together forever? No, no. Well, I think they, uh, they, they, at the beginning, they might catch a little clip of, uh, of the, of the fire.

So, so yeah, we decided to, um, uh, we decided to bro down after, uh, everything is said and done. And so we went over to your house and we decided to have a little barbecue and you had a, was it, we did ribeyes. We did ribeyes, right? And so we did ribeyes. And so you're all happy about this, this, you know, chimney barbecue with all the charcoals and stuff and showing us how this fancy way you light it with a little chimney and like you use, what is that, that's that, uh, leftover butcher paper for, you know, like whatever the, um, so anyways, there's this whole ordeal and just kind of showing everything.

And so, um, yeah, we have a good night and everything and, and we leave and, uh, you get it, you text me the day after and there's where the barbecue was in the nice, the nice deck and everything. It's just, there's a burnt hole. Like, so the patio or the patio did it, it didn't catch on fire, just smoldered, right? Is it, did it actually have a flame to it? Did you even know? No, no, I wouldn't have known, um, had our neighbor not, um, woke up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and she's, she's going to the bathroom and she's, she comes over, uh, and bangs on our door and wakes us up.

But what she ended up telling us was that, you know, she's going to the bathroom and she's like, why is my window like glowing red? So she stands up and look out her window and, you know, a couple hundred square feet of our deck is, is in flames. And so what happened was the, I think, um, you know, somehow a briquette, you know, got loose or whatever and smoldered and got under the deck. Uh, and so the fire was under the deck, but it was, it was, you know, by the time we woke up, it was lapping up, you know, it was, you know, a couple of feet off the ground, uh, for this, this, you know, a couple hundred square feet area, but it also during that process got into the structural wall of the house, um, where the kitchen is.

And so fire department came, they had to, you know, saw open the wall and spray water and foam on my wall. And, um, a lot of interior pipes and electrical, you know, were melted and the window, the kitchen window was, was, you know, destroyed. And, um, yeah, so the most expensive barbecue you've ever held, you said, so the, uh, I told you, right. It almost looks like, so like, I don't know if you've ever looked up the pictures on spontaneous human combustion. You ever heard of that before? Um, oh yeah. So if you look at pictures of it, it's like, you know, it's, it's just like, looks like something just burnt, like it, like it's smoldered itself and it's gone.

And it looks like kind of the barbecue just imploded on itself in it, in it, and it just incinerated everything around it as well. Yeah, that was a nice deck. That's, uh, it was, it was, but maybe, you know, maybe, maybe it will be again here someday. We'll see. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, thanks for being on. And, um, I think that's all we have. Yeah, no, it was a pleasure being on the, uh, on the podcast and a pleasure working with you. Um, and we are, we are, we are bound together now for the rest of our life. It's crazy experience. Um, and, um, yeah, if any of your, any of your listeners or colleagues or colleagues, um, have any questions, um, whether they have an immediate need or just want to, you know, um, um, you know, have a few questions answered.

Um, I'm, I'm always happy to help. So, so don't, don't hesitate to, uh, to reach out to me. Cool. Thanks for being on Mike. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure to chat with you. So, uh, everyone, if you do need some help finding something in here in California, Mike can help you out. And, uh, as you mentioned before, uh, if he's in different, he's very, he's very friendly and very helpful. So if he's, if you are in a different state and you need to find someone, he might know somebody in a different state, just, just contact him. So his email is M I K E at origin, R E.com. So that is Mike at O R I G I N R E.com.

So origin real estate basically is the, I guess acronym. So, um, and yeah, text him. He's really quick, really responsive. And that's why I liked working with him. Um, he didn't leave you hanging and, um, he's, uh, yeah, just give him, give him a text, give him a call and, uh, see how that works with you. But I hope that was good information for at least that if you guys are negotiating some of your own leases, hopefully it's, it's some good insight of things to look for and things to ask. Um, and like I said before, in the beginning, uh, I would not suggest anyone do it on their own. It is tough.

Uh, and the cool thing is that you don't really pay for someone like his services. The, uh, the, the, the person renting to you does. And so make sure that you are, are working with someone like him, uh, early because you can't really slide them in later. I don't think that really works in this type of format. So, um, see you guys next week. Talk to you soon. Thanks for being part of the movement movement.