Recovering from a shoulder labral tear and SLAP repair

Can everyone recover from a labral repair or is that just a? I think so. What do you need? For me, and it's just like, you know, like if I didn't play rugby or I wasn't so like active, I probably could have gone forth like with the no operation. You know what I mean? Because I did have it rehabbed and I was cleared to kind of go back to things. But I went back to something that's really very like violent. You know, if I had gone back to like even just hockey, for example, I probably would have been fine. I'm having surgery. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey guys, this is Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host of the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the Movement Movement. If this is your first time, welcome. This is the podcast where I'm attempting to blend the line between clinician and patients. And what I mean by that is I want patients to kind of understand what their doctors are talking about and be able to ask questions, be able to understand where they're going in their rehab or their treatments. And also for doctors to learn how to break stuff down on a very fundamental level and also learn a little bit more.

That's why I interview people. So today I thought I would bring on someone with a labral tear and labral repair of the shoulder. And I have talked about the labrum of the shoulder in the past, but I haven't spoken to anybody who has had a labral issue. So, and quite honestly, I typically don't work with people with acute labral traumatic injuries. I usually see them as like an overused type of one from like throwing and so on. And so, um, I thought I would have Olivia on today and she's going to share with us. She reached out to me on Instagram and said, Hey, you haven't had anything really about labral tears yet.

And I said, you know what? You are right. And we are going to do this very, very soon. And I did one really quickly, quickly without her. And then I'd had her on as well. So this is the one where she's on. So she's going to share a little bit about her experience with labrum, uh, issues twice. And she had a repair the second time. The first time she couldn't really figure out what's going on. So we're going to figure out, uh, what she all went through to get through that. So, um, also this is your first time to the show. Uh, I do tend to share a little bit about myself in a, in the form of short story, just so you can get, so you guys can get a little bit more, uh, in tune with who I am as your host.

If you choose to subscribe, which I strongly suggest you do, then you'll know a little bit more about me. So we're going to get in that story real quickly here, and then we'll get right into the story given by Olivia Petras, Petras. I'll put a link to her, uh, I'll put a link to her, uh, contacts in the show notes. So this is probably a good story that I don't know if I've told anybody, but I know that the office staff and the patients that were here at the time, uh, know this one pretty well. So when I first moved from one clinic to another, it was within the, within the same building. This was about probably four, three, four years ago, I think now.

And so the current building that I was in and the current office I was in, like every, everything worked. Like we had, there was public bathrooms. Uh, we didn't have bathrooms inside the clinic. Um, but at some point they closed the bathrooms and they were attempting to move me over. And so they put an outhouse outside and there was no bathrooms in the entire building that worked, but there was that outhouse out there where there was the, uh, the, the honey hut, um, or the, uh, porta potty rather. So not really the best situation, but we had a lock and key for it. So it was our own private one.

And so eventually to move, to make the entire building become remodeled, they needed to move me to demo the area where the office was. And actually when they demoed that office, I stood on top of the other building and saw them just take a crane to it and just tear everything apart. It was so sad. Um, but I got videos of that too. And so, uh, when we got into this new office, they said, Hey, look, uh, we're not totally done with this office yet. Um, there is no internet and there's no bathroom. Like the bathroom was there, but there was, there were toilets there, but there was nothing connecting the toilets really behind it.

It was just a toilet and behind into, into the wall, there was just nothing. It was just an empty pipe. Um, actually a cutoff pipe. There was no major tubing yet because we can walk around the building and kind of see that. And so at some point the internet guy came in, he's like, look, I'm going to set up your internet and, and all this jazz. And I said, great, cool. How long is this going to take you? And he said, Oh, a couple hours. I said, cool. I'm going to go around the corner real quick. Um, get some coffee and do, um, uh, just if you need anything, just tell me. So I was over there around for about 30 minutes or so.

And I came back and so the guy was gone. His truck was here and, um, he just wasn't around. I didn't see him. And so he came out of the bathroom and, uh, he said, Hey man, your, uh, your water's not working. And I said, Oh, did you use the bathroom? And he said, yeah, yeah. I said, number one, number two. He says two. And so lo and behold, this guy, he takes a dump in a toilet that has no water in it. Um, and there's no water running to it and there's no pipe on the back. And so he's like, Oh, what? I don't know what I do about the thing. And I said, uh, you know what? I'll be right back. And so I went and grabbed some gloves and some paper towels in a bag.

And I said, you're going to have to deal with this because he didn't look like there was literally no water in the toilet. And so, uh, he went in there and fished the thing out and then takes it with him and he's on his way. And probably for the next month, like me and the staff were really, we didn't want to go in there and look, but we did take the liberty to go in and just stuff a bunch of paper towels in there to make sure that whatever stink was in there was not coming out. And so finally, when we got our water, someone had to go in there and deal with it. And we drew straws. I lost and I had to go in there and clean it all out.

So that was the story about the guy who took the shit in the toilet. It was not connected to anything and then left it for about a month. So be thankful that you have a bathroom. Now onto the content. This isn't live, is it? No, it's not live. None of this is live. Take some work to get through it. Yeah, I don't edit a lot, but none of the lot's live. Yeah, cool. So welcome everyone. Olivia Petrus, is it Petrus? Yes, yeah. Thanks for joining us. Yeah, definitely. Thank you. Yeah, so you reached out and said that we need to talk about labrums in the shoulder. And because of that, I did that other one the other day.

Yeah, I saw that. But I thought just hearing what your experience with labrum, what you tried, I think it's more powerful than actually like theoretically talking about labrum, you know? For sure. Yeah, definitely. So what's the deal with labrums? Yeah, they are an interesting, it just, it's so like, you know, with shoulders, it's just one of those things where it could be a million different things and all the tests are like super like positive. And so you think it's rotator cuff and blah, blah, blah. But so, yeah, like the actual process of diagnosing the labral tear for me, that was the most difficult part.

Like it took a solid year to come to the actual diagnosis. Really? Surgery. Yeah. So overall, so it happened two years ago, the injury. So I had just started playing rugby, decided to pick it up at the age of 25. Probably not the best sport to pick up at that age. And it was my second game in and I was really enjoying it. Like it was just such a fun sport. I hadn't been shown how to tackle properly and so I went in for the tackle with my arm kind of extended and her momentum kind of took me down and pushed posteriorly and I landed like right on it. And I've never experienced any like injury like that.

Like my arm just went completely dead. Kept on playing. It's brilliant. Well, you got to tough it out. It's rugby. Come on. Exactly. Like, and it was only my second game in, right? So what was your guys, don't you have those things where like you're supposed to do? To dance in front of each other before the game to scare them off. Like, I don't want to play. Yeah. I don't know if we have anything like that, but we should maybe come up with something. Yeah. I heard they do it in Australia and it was like a back in the, you're right. So. In New Zealand too, it's really big. There you go. Definitely.

You could totally do it. I was going to have you demonstrate that. Oh, yeah. Oh, is this actually a video? Oh, crap. Yeah. No one will see the video. It's just for me. Oh, yeah. No, I don't know how to do it. But so, yeah, that's how the injury actually happened. And then afterwards, like, man, oh, man, the clicking and the snapping, like, you know, like that day and in the next two weeks was just really, really freaky. And I think that's what just like, and working in my profession, like I hear a lot about just that mechanism of injury. And the first thing that came to mind was, oh, my God, it's my labrum.

But then, you know, I see, like, I work with doctors, so I annoyed the crap out of my doctors. I saw different physios and they all were saying, well, so early on and everything's so positive. It could be your rotator cuff. It could be your AC joint. It could be, like, just a really good sprain. But just in the back of my head, it's like, no, it's my labrum. Like, somebody just diagnosed it as labrum. So, yeah, I guess that was a super frustrating part for me was just not getting that, like, clear diagnosis off the get-go. And I think a lot of people shoulder injuries, I feel like that's, like, a common, like, occurrence.

You know what I mean? I do. And actually, I think you said a couple things there that, like, number one, was the diagnosis more important to you or was it just knowing that you're improving? No, it was, like, the diagnosis because I wanted to know, like, am I going to be able to play again? Like, what are we looking at recovery-wise? Because I was just having so much fun in this new sport I found. And then I'm just busted, right? So I'm like, so I can go back in six weeks? Like, what's the deal? And so I did my absolute best with, like, you know, the active, like, assisted, like, getting the range of motion back with those boring exercises and the, like, isometric stuff where you're, like, pushing against the wall.

I was just so frustrated with just the slow progress. And I didn't end up returning to rugby that year. And then, yeah, I guess I got my arthrogram, finally, and it didn't really show much of anything. It showed, like, an effusion kind of thing, but it wasn't very specific in terms of the labrum. So I had built up all this, like, you know, it's labrum, like, this injury is going to be worth all this. Like, and then nothing showed up. So I actually lost my mind. Like, I was just, like, making it up. I would do all of that for, like, a sprain, like, you know what I mean? So, but then I kind of eventually was like, okay, well, it was a really good sprain.

I'm just going to have to keep on rehabbing it. So I did. I saw the surgeon who kind of, like, I got all my strength back. The joint was feeling, like, really, really stable. And so he cleared me, like, to go back to rugby. And I did the following kind of, I guess, winter, like, in March. And I blew it out again. And it was just not as bad. But it was that, like, instability of it, like, coming out, slipping back in. Because it never fully dislocated on me. It just kept on, like, subluxing. So you can feel it, like, kind of slip around. But it wouldn't completely go out. Never fully came out. Yeah.

Which the surgeon actually ended up saying that would have been better. Because it was just hanging on by, like, a thread. You know? Yeah. And then we would have known, too, a full dislocation that something was awry. Well, you could have had a band cart, too. You could have been lucked out with a little band cart. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Something small like that. Like a hatchet deformity. You get all that good stuff in there. Yeah. Exactly. Quick fix and that's it. And I ended up, like, doing, I guess, more damage to it. So I actually ended up having two labral tears. And my bicep was a little bit iffy, too.

So I had a slap type 3. And it was, like, going into the bicep. Which was, I remember the surgeon said, I haven't seen that in a long time. And I was high as a kite after surgery. And I was like, you're welcome. I could offer you something exciting. So that and a bank art, actually. Yeah. So, yeah, there was a couple things going on. But I actually, when he said that to me, I was actually happy. I was like, oh, my God, this injury was totally worth it. Like, I was right. It was laboring from the get-go. That's funny. There's a, I had a guy on before. He was a, he's a sonographer. And so they do movement-based, right?

Yeah. And so he always had this, like, saying that it, people would come in to see him when they felt all this negative imaging. And when they'd finally get their diagnosis or confirm what it was, it's like, he's like, it never felt so good to know what's wrong, you know? Right. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy. When it's like nothing's wrong, you just, you're like, what the heck? Well, then what is it? Like, you know, it's, yeah. And I feel like that's a problem with a lot of patients and just, that I see too, and just ordering imaging for the sake of ordering it. And then it comes back, you know, nothing we can really do to change things.

And then they're like, well, what is it? There's something there. You know what I mean? And then it's like a structural kind of thing. So, well, did you have a second image or did you just like, at that point, it's... Well, I just had the one arthrogram. So, we never really saw it in an image. You just saw it in surgical, right? Yeah. He took a second look at it and then he said, I guess maybe he looked a little bit closer or whatnot. And then he's kind of peeking at it and he's like, oh, maybe there is a little slap there. But he didn't know the full extent of it until he went in. And I think I probably, like, I don't know if I tore the, like, I did the slap first and then the bank guard or I did the bank guard and then the slap.

But I think I definitely, like, injured it further when I went back. Yeah. I'm also wondering, like, I'll probably, like, I'll ask a bunch of questions because... Go for it. Probably all the docs listening are like, so the first one I thought was when you first hit him, I thought Stinger because your arm died and it was a depression. It went completely dead. But I definitely felt that, like, you know, slip out and in at that point, too. Okay. And did you ever have numbness into the hands at all? Or a hand? Not, like, after that kind of Stinger kind of, like, incident. Yeah, it didn't last. Did you have it as time went on or not at all?

No, nothing like that. Okay. Did all of our classic tests that, like, your O'Brien's and your Jerks test and I'm guessing apprehension relocation are all positive. We're all positive, yeah. So all those other ones, too, in the beginning was your empty can, your full can, your... All that was positive, too? Yeah, yeah. So it's just a big cluster of everything. Exactly, right? It's like, well, none of these are helpful if everything's positive. And I think that's what it is with a lot of shoulder, like, acute shoulder injuries, right? Yeah. Like, as opposed to, like, a knee, kind of ACL and stuff.

Those are a little bit more, I think, specific or... Yeah. I never personally really see... I don't see people, like, immediately after. So, like... Right. Like, sideline care, to me, is interesting because it's like, there's so much going on that it's like, I'm just going to weigh this out, you know? Yeah, exactly. So... And the adrenaline's going and... Right. Yeah. And how many, like, what kind of tests can you actually do, like, that soon after, too, right? Yeah. When you're breathing, you're speaking to me and, okay, we'll just keep you off the side a little bit. But then, since you're an athlete, you get to make your choice and you go back in when you want.

Exactly. Right. There's not much you can do about it, yeah. Yeah. So, of all the injuries you've ever had, where would the shoulder rank, actually? Oh, top, for sure. Really? I never had anything like that. I herniated a disc, like, deadlifting a couple years ago. But in terms of, like, something that was, like, so immediate and sudden, and I was like, oh, my God, this is something, like, kind of bad, I think. That was the only one I've ever had. And it's funny, because I grew up playing sports, and I think it was a little bit of an attention seeker. So, like, playing hockey and stuff like that.

You were a flopper, weren't you? Oh, yeah. I played hard. I, like, drew so many penalties, and people on my team would get annoyed with me, and I think it was just karma coming back to kick me in the ass. That's funny. You really deserve this injury time out this time. You know what? Funnily enough, I think it was the universe's way of telling me just to, like, chill out for, like, a hot sec. I ended up, like, that summer, like, after that shoulder injury, I ended up really spraining my ankle really bad. So then, like, I couldn't even, like, barely walk or run, and I couldn't do anything. How do you use crutches if you got a labral tear?

Exactly. It was really difficult. I mostly just booted it around. That's funny. There was one time I, so I was in my garage, I was brewing beer, and I dropped this glass car where it was, like, a five-gallon jug of, there was beer in it at the time. And so, it shattered, and it just lacerated my ankle, and so I had it stitched up. And I couldn't really bear weight on it for various reasons for about a month, and so I did crutches. Yeah. And so, I did crutches to the store, and I've never met so many friendly people in my whole damn life. Like, everyone wants to help you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And now I know why hoodie backpack. More often. Yeah, more, totally more often. Get more friends. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like hoodie shirts have those in there. In Canada, we're just naturally like that, so. What was that? I said, here in Canada, we're just naturally, like, good people. You're right. You have to be really, you have to be really decrepit here to get more friends. Yeah, to get any kind of sympathy. Right, right. Oh, yeah. And then you really. California's a little bit better, though, right? Yeah, I think everyone's really nice. I think it's funny. I've had people at, like, they've said, oh, people around here, or I've thought, actually, people around here are not as friendly as they are other places, and then, so, but when I go other places, I think I'm more open to speak with them, like random strangers, you know?

So, it's probably me. Yeah. But everyone here is nice. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I got good vibes when I was down there. Yeah. When did you come down here last? Last October, I got to San Francisco. Yeah, it was awesome. Oh, what were we doing there? Just traveling. I went to Big Sur, just kind of, like, exploring. Yeah. Nice. Biked across the Golden Gate. That was probably the coolest thing I did. It was a, you had to pay a $10 toll? No. Oh, you went, yeah, well, I think it's, it's one direction. Oh, really? Maybe it's fine. If you're driving a car. I think it's to get back in the city, not to leave it.

Did you go north? Went from San Fran to Sausalito. Yeah, I think that's free. I think the other way is pay. Or else you got to drive around. It's like a con. Oh, we took a ferry back. Oh. So that's kind of why. Interesting. Good to know. Yeah, yeah. That's how they get you. You work in the city, you got to pay. Oh, yeah. Is that every time? I think so. I'm sure they have a pass or something. I never lived up there. Holy jeez. That's expensive. Yeah. Wow. Parking in the city is even worse, so you drive in. Yeah, driving in the city is, I don't even want to talk about it. It was just, yeah, it was awful.

Never again. Yeah. We were like, we don't need a GPS. We have maps. But like, there's a difference when you're walking and looking at a map and driving. Wait, a map on your phone or did you have a Thomas guide? No, because we didn't have data, right? So we were just like, we were just going, yeah, we didn't even use our phone at all. Oh, wait, is this because you have Canadian data and you didn't have a US data? Yeah. I forgot that's the thing. So we like lived off of Wi-Fi and it was just, oh, it was horrendous. Yeah. Every time I see a Kurtz, which is what we rented the car from, I just have like, I just get like the shivers.

Yeah. They probably gave you one of those novelty net maps too that had like all the icons larger that they wanted you to go and spend money at. Yeah. Yeah, they totally did. I have quite the collection of maps now, but. Oh, good. Frame them. It was great. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. It's an awesome place. So where are you in California? I'm in Southern, Southern, Southern. So I always say halfway between San Diego and LA if you had to pick like a mileage type of thing. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Nice down here. Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So what are you doing for your labrum now? I am back. I had it.

So I had it operated on last July. So I guess it's been, yeah, I don't know how many months it's been now, but like I was only in the sling for three weeks, you know, get all my range, got my strength back slowly and then got cleared to do like more explosive stuff. So like plyo kind of based activities and then got back to rugby and it's feeling pretty good. I got a, I got a sully brace on just to make sure. Yeah. Stability wise, I haven't had any issue like with that kind of feeling of like subluxation possibly or weakness. So I'm hopeful, but I know there's always a risk, right? Once things are kind of.

I think there's a risk with everything. Glass is pretty risky. Yeah. And especially with a sport like rugby, it's just, it's so chaotic that you can try to put yourself in a safe position, but at the end of the day, if like, you know, a 200 pound girl sits on you, then there's not much you can do. So when someone say running by you now, are you, are you open to like grabbing them with that arm or. Yes. I'm nervous. Okay. I haven't like, so we haven't gotten into like full on tackling yet. So that's definitely something that I'm a little bit hesitant to do, but with everything else, it's feeling strong.

So I'm sure it'll be okay. Just this time I'll make sure I do it properly because I think the issue was my arm was just so like outstretched. It just didn't take much to like push it back. Yeah. You like chicken wing yourself. Basically. Or chicken, chicken legs, chicken legs probably better because they pop off. Yeah. Oh yeah. Whatever it was, it wasn't good, but yeah, I know it's feeling good now. Good. Yeah. Totally. I'm excited to get back to things, but also nervous because that was like two years of my life was like no real activity, right? Like no sports. I, I, I bike a lot. I wasn't able to bike.

It was just, yeah, it was pretty depressing. Yeah. It was the most, yeah. You couldn't bike because of the possibility of falling off the bike or you couldn't hold your hand? That. Yeah. And then I rode bike. So it's just that forward kind of lean was like pretty uncomfortable. So yeah, I got back to it eventually, but then once I injured it again, couldn't do that, couldn't run. Yeah. It was pretty awful. Yeah. And I think injuries are kind of depressing. Honestly, honestly, it really, really is. Especially if you're an active person, right? Cause it's such a big, important part of your life.

Mm-hmm. It's kind of gone, you know? Mm-hmm. It's, I, I always think that, uh, I mean, I, so I wrote this book on back pain originally, right? And, uh, the beginning part was, uh, it's like, I started to realize that as I had my back injury that a lot of people go through this, um, mental aspect thing and, and I don't know what it'd be with shoulder, but I would imagine it'd be the same kind of stuff. Yeah. It's like, I can't do that. What the hell can I do? And it's hard to see what you could do. You know what? I think it's kind of like the, uh, Elizabeth Kubler, you know, the five stages of like grief.

Oh, right. Yeah. It's, uh, angers. Is it anger first? Anger. And then there's like, um, oh man, I can't remember them all. I wrote about it though. Like, so I write and I wrote about this and just like, you know, an injury kind of perspective and I forget what it is, but there's, there's anger, there's bargaining, there's acceptance is the last one obviously, but you can like flip and flop between these five stages too. Right. So, um, but yeah, that's it. It definitely is, um, an adventure. That's for sure. Where do, where do you most people tend to hang then? Like, I'm guessing that they, is, is, I guess at the end of that is it's recovery or acceptance probably of the situation, but it doesn't mean you, you actually fix a problem.

Is it? It's just an acceptance. Some people never get there either. You know what I mean? Um, I think honestly, it's a lot of the time is just like the bargaining kind of aspect of it and the kind of anger, disappointment, like frustration is huge. Right. But you're like, okay, I can't do this. Like for example, with a physiotherapist or a chiropractor, it's just like, okay, I can't do this, but what can I do? Like there has to be something, you know what I mean? It's just kind of like that back and back and forth, especially with somebody who's like an active individual. Yeah. So I know for me, that's kind of where I hung out.

Yeah. It'd probably challenge you to really, uh, to find a new hobby or a new sport. Totally did. But like you're, you know, you're active and you need that kind of, what are you going to even just walk? Like you, it's so intense. And then you go down to like something like, you know, walking or it's just not the same. I would imagine probably the sport that you could have picked is, is you get, you know, like those little boats that you just go like this with your feet. Yeah. The paddle, paddle boats. Yeah. Just paddle boats. Yeah. Like you don't use your arms, but it's like a race. Yeah. You guys just go.

You're like a little duck. Sounds great. I'm totally going to switch. Thanks for the tip. Or you can put yourself in a little floaty, like a little inner tube and then have waders and kick and troll for fish, you know? That's true. Because you don't have, maybe you can't use the arm. Yeah. Well, that's good to know. I'll write this down in case this happens again to me. Yeah. Probably the rest of this podcast should just be all the things that people with labral tears could do while they're waiting to recover. Exactly. Well, that's good. You're giving people just those, yeah, those suggestions, right?

Yeah. That is half the battle, I guess. Yeah. Absolutely. So when, I tend to hear a lot of, maybe this is old, this is old stuff, but I heard it a lot in the past is that after you have a certain thing done to the shoulder, you shouldn't lift overhead anymore, or you shouldn't do X, Y, and Z anymore, or you shouldn't lift 10 pounds at all. Yeah. Do you get any of those, or do you hear about any of those, or is that a, a RK thing? I haven't, not for myself. I think the one thing for me was just being like in that position of like external rotation. That's the position kind of that you're at risk for more like kind of dislocations for.

So the thing that took me the longest to get back to is just like a back squat, for example. So just being in that position for, you know, an extended period of time and then loading it. But yeah, no, in terms of like lifting above head and stuff like that, I haven't really been told not to do anything. Now, anyway, before I was told to not do a lot of things. You were stuck doing Codman exercises all day? Basically, it was like, that was the most depressing thing, you know what I mean? To go from lifting and playing an aggressive sport to like, just like holding your fist against the wall for five seconds.

Right. Did you program for yourself then when you went through that? Or did you have someone else do it for you? A little bit of both. Like I work with like sport med doctors and physiotherapists and stuff. So I really just had them kind of, the surgeon was kind of like, you know what to do. Like go do it. Which, you know, at a certain point when I started, so once I finished like the kind of range of motion stuff and I was getting into strengthening, he basically didn't tell me like what not to do. So I was kind of like, okay, I guess I can do everything and kind of pushed it a little bit to start.

But, so I needed somebody to kind of reel me back in. Well, you had, it sounds like you had a good, a good mental attitude about it. Like you're, you're just pressing the envelope in a safe way. It sounds like. Yeah, I think so. Like in terms of like the rehab, the rehab post-op, like I definitely didn't like, I didn't risk anything too major, but yeah. So mentally I was like pretty excited to get back to everything. Even just when I got back to running, I was so excited to get back to running even, you know what I mean? So, and then everything just came pretty quickly after that. But yeah, just all those like, you know, shoulder blade kind of posture exercises, just things like that were kind of annoying to do like four times a week.

But when I, when I did, you know, make a concerted effort to do that, like pretty steady, because I didn't for a while, like it kind of said I could go back to doing everything. And I went into like doing burpees and like deadlifting and stuff like that. I forgot about the kind of postural aspect of it. So I had to kind of like take a couple steps back and kind of get that first, but it made a huge difference just in like, you know, even just like nighttime pain, for example. And just that ache, like, you know, that dull ache I had for a long time after the surgery, which not really there anymore.

It's mostly just when I'm like, you know, practicing like tackling, we're not full on practicing like tackling now with like other humans, but like just with bags and stuff like that, just that kind of impact forward just makes it a little bit sore. But that's really the only thing. Hmm. Is there, is there any, uh, when you're, when you're impacting the bag then, is there, is there a strategy to, to reduce the amount of ache you get after? Or is that just a kind of like a graded effect thing or? I think so. Yeah. I haven't really, I mean, I haven't done, I haven't practiced too much, um, the tackling kind of aspect of it, but I don't think it's like a certain position you go in.

I think it's just that, you know, repetition just over time is going to make it sore. So you're going to ride the bench for like 25% of the game and you're only going to tackle when it really is that dire need. Exactly. I'll just let them go by. If I'm not in the proper position, I'm just like, see you later. Sorry, I'm not fit. My arms are, yeah, you're gone. That's the, that's not the proper tackling position. You can't do that. No, definitely not. Or there's like a 300 pound girl running at you and you're like, nope, I'm out. Funny. How big do they get in that sport? They get 300 pounds? It's all dependent on the position you play, right?

So there's girls that are like a solid, like 220. Holy shit. 220, 230 out there. Yeah. And then you have girls that are like five foot nothing. Like they're the back. So they're the really fast players. And they're like, I don't know, like 100, 110 pounds. You know what I mean? So then you have that going against, it's crazy. So I imagine in football, it's like as, as other than like a running back, like as a small person, you really won't encounter one of those big people unless you were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Is it like that in rugby too? Same idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Okay. I'd never played, nor do I watch. Yeah. Is it a big, is it big in California at all? I mean, I, I never drive along the freeway and look and see people playing rugby. No. Yeah. Like it, like I wouldn't even know where to start looking, honestly. Yeah. I wonder. Cause I know it's, I don't even know how big it is in the States. It's pretty big here in Canada. Um, but like, I know you guys have like a good national team as you do with most things. Yeah, but I mean, I think we have a, so one of my friends worked with the men's, um, field hockey team. Yeah. Right. The USA men's field hockey team.

And I don't see, other than going there with him, I don't see any men's field hockey anywhere. You know, I know we got teams. Yeah, exactly. So it must just be like a couple of certain States, you know what I mean? That's like pretty popular. Yeah. I've seen lacrosse pop up around here and, uh, Hey, what happened to High Lies? High Lies still a thing? What's that? High Lies? What is that? Oh, I'm going to pull up High Lies for you. I've never heard about it. Yeah. High Lies. Gosh. High Lies? High Lies. Yeah. It's like a J. J-I-L-I game. Okay. So I'm going to pull this thing up. Oh no, this is not even.

Okay. It's a prison video game, apparently. Well, they got to stay active too, you know? There, there is, it's a, okay, I'm going to find it here. I got, I got it. I got it. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to share this to you. So they have this like little net thingy that they use. Damn, I'm really not good at zoom right now. Let me see if I can share my screen. Okay. So we're going to go through and, uh, so this is High Lies. See, there's got this little, like, it's like a ski ball. Like cricket or something? What's that? Like cricket or something? I don't even know. Well, it's like, so it looks like they're playing racquetball over here.

Yeah. But they have like a big, long, like bag lady nail. Like a one single one on their hand. And it's like they throw from it and catch from it. Weird. I have never seen that in my entire life. I bet. Now I'm going to look up the USA National. Uh, look, we probably have a, oh no, that's soccer now. Oh, it's soccer. I know. We're going to, see, we might have a USA National High Lies team, but I don't see any High Lies anywhere is my point. Yeah, no, I haven't either. That's very, it looks like an old timey kind of thing. Well, is it just because of the colors in the picture just like really retro?

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, yeah, there's different things out there. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I think I'm going to play High Lies one day. I don't know about you. You're going to start it in California. It's going to be gnostic. Yeah, I get to see it. There's turf wars between the handballers, the racquetballers, and the High Lies, all probably in the same public park. Who would win that, I imagine? They have big, they have big nails. They have like Freddy Krueger hands. Like they will win. The High Lies will win. That's true. So that's the team you want to be on. Yeah, team High Lies.

Yeah. So tell them about yourself. What's, uh, I don't know much about you. Other than the fact that you have a labral tear. So tell me everything else. Because, uh, by the way, everyone, she reached out on Instagram. And, uh, so we're just talking for the first time right now. Yeah. Instagram is awesome. Um, so yeah, I, so here in Canada, I guess Nova Scotia, East coast, I work as like a physician assistant, like a sport medicine clinic. And then I personal train part-time. Um, and I really enjoy like, for me activity, just anything outdoors, like hiking, camping, road biking. Um, and I played hockey all my life as we do here in Canada.

And, uh, then I, when I moved down here, so I'm from Ontario, like the Toronto area originally. And then I moved down here to Nova Scotia. I really like, I didn't know anybody. So it was like how I've met people all my life was sport. Um, and with rugby, it's just, it's such a big, like social kind of like community. Like, you know, you'll play the most vicious game with another team and people are bleeding and need stitches and things like that. And then, you know, you go out right after the game and like get beers together. It's just that kind of like camaraderie and stuff. So it's very interesting that way.

So, um, I fell in love with it and just like playing it. It's just the most adrenaline I've ever had, like playing a sport. It's just absolutely insane. So, so you waited 25 years to find this passion. What the hell did you do else for the rest of your life? I know. I wanted to play in high school and my parents like would not let me. So with good reason, obviously. But I think if I had played in high school, I probably would have known how to tackle. So I blame it on them, but. There it is. The, the step, step two, uh, giving, um, uh, what is it? What is it when you go apologize to people that wrongs you?

Yeah. I don't know. I think we're, I think we're on the seven steps of the AA now. I forget. It went from like the stages of grief to just something completely different. They're probably all the same thing. It's just repackaging stuff. Just like all these are different. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, but that's a little bit about me, I guess. So yeah. Okay. What, um, would you rather talk about, uh, rugby or sports or sports medicine? Oh, good question. Maybe the sport medicine aspect of it. You want to talk about sports medicine aspect of rugby or sportsman aspect of you? Yeah. Maybe just, yeah.

In general, I guess. Yeah. Okay. What about you? What do you want to talk about? I don't know. I'm just a bullshitter. I just go wherever it takes me. Like the only thing hindering me is knowing that we were, we're supposed to talk and be talking about shoulders and labrums. And that's the only thing that reels me back with any type of agenda in this conversation. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Um, how, what else can we talk about labrums? Well, I think, uh, you know, here, well, here's the thing maybe like, I don't know about you, but I, I tend to find that when I have an injury, I ended up having a lot of patients with that same damn injury.

Um, are you working with labrum people a bunch now or is it? Yeah, I, you do see them and it's like every time it's like that kind of mechanism that I kind of mentioned, you know, like the arm extended falling backwards kind of thing. I'm just like instantly, I'm just like, shit, this guy's probably not torn labrum. Um, and I don't, you know what? I haven't seen a whole lot of like degenerative, like labrums in our practice. I don't know, like for whatever reason. Um, but like, it's not the most, you know, common injury that we do see. I would say like for shoulder, it's, it's a little, it's quite rare, but whenever it is something we do see, I'm like, okay, it's like, I don't know.

I feel like it's pretty like just the mechanism of injury is like pretty classic. Just some type of a trauma ex-traumatation foosh type of thing. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what you've kind of experienced that way, but that's usually when it is like an acute labral tear, like that's how it kind of happened. Yeah. I usually don't see it. Like I said, I don't really see many acute, um, I, I do hear the fooshes, um, but, um, usually I'll have like a pitcher or a thrower come in and then they have signs of labral tear, but it's like. And I guess that would be more like kind of overuse or wear and tear, right?

Yeah. But I, um, I, like I tend to, and this is why I asked in the beginning is like, so I'll, I'll figure out what I think it is, but at the same time, like I'll see, I see what's improving them and get them back into full function. So like, I'm like, well, it was maybe a grade one, you know, and I don't think I want to fuss with the image yet because I just kind of hold it in the holster just in case, you know? Right. Yeah. Definitely. But I don't know if I, I honestly don't know if I see them a lot. Um, they just kind of, they just, they might be there and I don't know what type of, uh, we, if you had to pick for, for, for yourself to have a shoulder injury, would you rather have a labral tear, non-surgical, a labral tear, labral tear, surgical category, a rotator cuff, uh, um, a rotator cuff tendinitis, a fresh one, a, I don't know, calcific tendinosis.

Yeah. No, no, definitely not. Like that would be like my least. Yeah. That would be like my bottom pick. I think that'd be my bottom pick too. Right. It's just, you know, man, no matter what you do, it's always there in the background. Like it's just, it's brutal. Yeah. Those ones are just, uh, do they still like, I had only like one come in. I saw an ultrasound of it and it was calcific tendinosis. Yeah. And I thought, I'm like, do they really go in and lavage these things? They just like, they stab them and break them up or suck them out. Or how do you get that out of the tendon? I don't know.

It's not really surgical here anyway. Um, usually it's just like we, we manage it with like a cortisone, cortisone injection, right? Yeah. Um, but yeah, in terms of going in and I guess if it's like, if there's like kind of a frozen shoulder along with it, um, sometimes they'll just like yank it out. Like, you know what I mean? Kind of like really aggressively. We should talk about, we should put frozen shoulder on that list. Yeah, you definitely should. In terms of shoulder stuff and like, yeah, tendinopathy, like that is what we see the most of. Frozen shoulder. Yeah. Frozen shoulder and like the rotator cuff tendinopathies as well.

Yeah. So what do you think about the concept of it being idiopathic? Like, cause I like frozen shoulder, like at least based upon Dr. Google or at least what we learned in school was, uh, it's like, it just comes with no rhyme or reason. Yeah. Any, any thoughts on that or no rhyme or reason often too, right? What's that? And it often goes with no, with like just randomly. Yeah. The thawing, the thawing period or whatever. Yeah. I don't know. I've, I've, I was thinking about it that I, I would imagine there was a lot of things we probably had considered as idiopathic, but we just didn't know what the hell caused it.

Yeah. So we just categorize it as there's no cause. Right. Yeah, exactly. Must be frozen shoulder. Yeah. I don't see how it can just come and go kind of like a, like a, like someone who lived on your couch for three months, you know? Right. I don't know. It's gotta be related to some type of calcification you would imagine. You'd think so. Yeah. Like what is the, like, what is it trying, like what's it, what's the adaptation that created that? Yeah. Right. Just all of a sudden you can't like lift it past like 10 degrees. Yeah. I mean, I would think just not doing house chores could be one reason.

Right. Yeah. Today I have calcific to an, or I have a, a frozen shoulder. Yeah. Can't take out the guy, Rich, frozen shoulder. Yeah. I think I would personally not want to have the calcific over the frozen, frozen shoulder though. You wouldn't? Yeah. I don't, I don't want the calcific in any way, shape, or fashion. Yeah. No, me neither. Yeah. You know what? I think if I had to choose from all of those, I would probably want to take what I had, which would be a surgical nasal care. So, so do you think after the first, the first time, do you think you were surgical the first time or is it the second, the thing that created?

I think it was the second, like, I think I definitely like sublexed that it was definitely like unstable, but I did so good in strengthening it back up that when I went to see the surgeon, you know, he was like your full function, your full strength. It's not like when he did all the tests, it was, it wasn't unstable at all. So I think we made the right call and going like non-surgically, but there must've just been an underlying, I couldn't handle the stress of the tackles in rugby. So, yeah, I think it was really the second time, although like I didn't get, I got a little bit of that kind of dead arm kind of feeling again, and I definitely felt it coming back out, but it wasn't nearly as painful and like that second time, or like I didn't have like such the loss and range of motion and that, and all the clicking and snapping sensations, but just, I mean, you know, looking at the arthrogram, even after the first one, nothing really showed up, so it wasn't very clear, you know?

Well, what did everything else in the arthrogram look like? Everything was good on that too? Like all the other, all the other stuff was good? The tater cuff was good, I had like a little labral hole kind of thing, like, but that's about it. So what the hell's wrong with you? Yeah, nothing was, except mentally, I just lost my mind. Because I was just like, oh man, it was bad. I was like, there's nothing wrong with me. I just wasted like five months of my life, like doing nothing, and there's nothing wrong with my shoulder. That's so funny. There was a, I just had a friend come in town, and I was, I was examining her for a back thing, and so she, she couldn't figure out rhyme or reason, what the hell was creating it, and so I actually, I videotaped this, and then surprisingly at the very end, when I finally found something, like the video shot off, halfway into it.

But I was going through all the stuff, and I couldn't find anything until I get to like some SI joint, really, some stress testing, really, which I typically don't do on a lot of people, because usually I find something before then. Right. But then, probably about like 20, 30 minutes into it, and I was trying to take my time and find stuff, she's like, is this, so this is in my head, you know? Right. I'm like, no, I don't, I don't think so, but at the same time, I feel like an idiot, I can't find anything. Like, you would think if, if you could dislocate a shoulder, and the dislocating mechanism is what creates a symptom, you try to dislocate it slowly, and it'll trigger, you know?

Right. But I finally found it in the SI joint there. I was really happy with myself. There you go. Yeah. We created this really intimate moment where I was just like cradling her leg, and she was on the video, and like, we're just kind of face-to-face only. And so, we did some dynamic testing after that, and I was like, put your, put your hands on my shoulder, you know? And that's the part we lost. It was too bad. It was really good. That's awesome. Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll have to release that one at some point here. Definitely. Yeah. So, did you like do videos and things like that, too? Well, so, I just started, and it's funny.

I think this whole damn thing is jinxed, actually, because the, the one prior to it, I did a, I thought about all the people that I, I have not really succeeded on their case in the past, and I learned a couple new things. I'm like, oh, I can, I want to try it again, right? Right. And so, so I'm like, just come in. Yeah. You see me once, like, just, just let me play with this, and let me video it, and that's it. Yeah. And so, my goal was originally that, that, so I saw that on, on, if you go on YouTube, and you look up chiropractor. Yeah. And so, there's a, there's a handful of guys that they have, like, 1.5 million views, 8.9 million views.

Right. And it's like, it's basically, like, just some guy doing, like, a, hey, how's it, how's this, how's it feel? And he's like, and they're, the patient tells the history. And then, he goes through, and he does his little assessment and stuff, and he does some adjustments, and then he says, how's that feeling? And she's like, oh, it feels so much better. And, and so, what, my interpretation was, and I was watching these for, for a while, and my girlfriend's like, what are you watching? Like, because it's not typical stuff I'd watch. I'm like, I'm trying to figure out why people like this video.

Yeah. And, and I, I'm not trying to bash the guy or his methods. It was just something, it's extremely personable about this video, that people really like it. And here was my, my thought was that perhaps our, our profession, chiropractic, people think that it's, I, one of our stereotypes is, is that it's scary, and that you're going to get your bones cracked, right? Totally, yeah. And so, through that video, the guy basically just kind of made it so you didn't, you didn't feel afraid. Right. And so, by revealing what he was doing, and so, with these people, I've tried to, I've tried to unveil the curtain of an exam, and then see that they can feel better with a, like a corrective exercise strategy, or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. But the one guy, he had an elbow, he had like a quote unquote lateral opicondylitis, or golfer's elbow, or sorry, tennis elbow. And so, he had a bat in his hand, and so he was twisting the bat back and forth, and he's like, yeah, I feel just like that. And he's had it for, I think, years at that point. And so, I just held his shoulder blade up, up against his rib cage, and just kind of packing his shoulder blade on. Right. And his symptoms went away. And he's like, what the hell? Yeah. And so, it was, the thought was we were looking at something neurological. Right. So, anyways, I had that all on video, and the damn audio went off.

But it was a great interaction. Right, yeah. But that's what I'm trying to do on the videos, so. Right. Kind of changed the perception, maybe, that people have, like a. Well, I mean. Like, just in terms of, like, the, you know, because people do think, like, Cairo, I know here, like, they're going to snap everything, right? But. Yeah. And there's folks like you, and I mean, even here, that are more, like, you know, into the, like, a lot of the exercise and the corrective stuff that way. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm okay with both. I mean, like, obviously, I practice the way I practice. Time and place for, yeah, both, yeah.

And, but then I think, I think what happens in our profession is that when people, like, when people come and see me, like, they're probably, like, or whoever they come and see is, is, is if they get something that they don't expect, they're shocked. And so, with, if they come in to see me, I might not adjust them all the time. I might correct a, or I might suggest, like, a loading strategy or something like that, a movement-based correction, and then maybe I do tissue work and stuff way on down the line. Right. But when they come in, because if people call up, they're, like, hey, how much for a quick adjustment?

I'm, like, well, we, we don't, you know? Yeah. Right. And so, they're turned off. Yeah. But vice versa, the other thing, and so, I think my thought with the videos is, is just to build the awareness that that's not all that's going to happen. Right. But here's another thing that could happen, and it's not extremely scary either, you know? Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'll have to check that out. Yeah. I'll have to, it's basically going to be me audio dictating the guy's reaction, which is, I'm like, this video is too good to dump, so I need to overvoice the thing. That actually could be quite entertaining.

Yeah. I should have done it kind of like Randall when he did that Honey Badger. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. You totally got to do that now. That's going to be, that's going to have a gajillion hits for sure. This is the Honey Badger. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's awesome. Yeah. You're right. There's a, there's, I don't know if you've gone onto, you've gone onto YouTube and watched the Tai Lopez videos. Have you run across those yet? No. Oh, there was a, there's a whole huge tangent topic. So there's a guy on there. I don't know where he, where I interacted with his stuff first, but then he's basically, he's like a sell stuff online kind of guy, right?

Right. And so he has all these videos he puts up on YouTube. And so one of them in particular, I think he spent like a, like a million dollars promoting it. So it was popping up everywhere. Right. And so it was called in my garage. And so he's in his garage and he's basically talking to me, he shows his like Lamborghini. He's like, oh, this is my Lambo. And I'm not proud of, I'm not really proud of that, but I'm proud of these. I'm proud of my books. So he shows his bookshelf. Right. And so for a while, I guess that he, uh, he asked people to do parody videos of it and he gave away like a car to the best one.

No way. Yeah. That's hilarious. Parody videos. But this guy, like, like you watch him and it's like, dude, what, what's this guy talking about? So he'll tell all these stories, right? Right. And he's like, well, this one time I was having lunch with Arnold Schwarzenegger and you're like, yeah, whatever. And so like you scroll on YouTube and it looked, and it's him. Then the next video is him eating lunch with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Right. And the next one's where he's like, well, I was hanging out with Drew Carey. And you're like, oh, shut up. And like, you're like, oh my God, he was Drew Carey too.

Who is this guy? So it's like an endless thing. That's so wild. So yeah, you can look up Tai Lopez. Tai Lopez. Yes, I will. Get stuck in the Tai Lopez endless video flow. Yeah. You keep digging deeper in the Tai Lopez hole. Definitely. Yeah. I'll check that out. Yeah. So how'd you get into sports medicine? Well, I had a, so I have like a kinesiology degree and I was working just like at a physiotherapy clinic. And I liked like the clinical aspect of things. I just didn't like that. Like my job was like so stagnant. And so like, it was the same thing every single day. You know what I mean? Giving people the same exercises and yeah.

So it was just, it bored me half to death. And I also like, I personally trained in the past, but that's not something I wanted to do like full, full time. The schedule is kind of like all over the place and stuff. Right. You have to be at a good gym. So yeah, I was always interested in, I wanted to go back to school, but I didn't, I wanted to find something where I could keep on learning. But I got just, I got really lucky with this job. It was just a random thing that I found online. I was like, well, I might as well apply. I ended up beating out like a couple of nurses, like, and things of that nature.

So I think they were looking for more like somebody with the exercise kind of background because it's definitely like a big part of like what I do. And you know, somebody who doesn't have coverage, can't afford physio or chiro, I'll just kind of give them like suggestions on like exercises and things like that to do. So I think that's why they brought me on. So it's nice. I'm able to kind of marry a little bit of both, like the clinical aspect and keeping on learning. Like, you know, they treat me like a resident, like half the time. So that's awesome. And then I think the exercise kind of portion of it is great too.

So yeah. Well, you sound, you sound very convincing in your speaking. I bet your presentation was probably just the confidence you had going in answering the questions. It was, yeah, it was, uh, I think I did pretty good. Obviously I haven't been at this job for two years, but, uh, yeah, no, it's, it's been great. Like I'm definitely lucky with it because here in Canada, like kinesiology is such a popular degree. So many people have it, but, um, like just a four year undergrad right now in this country, I don't know what it's like in the States, but like everybody has one, you know what I mean?

You need that extra like physio or that extra master's degree or whatever it is. Yeah. I know, I know a lot of them are impacted here, but I, uh, I know, I feel like every person here, if you ask, um, probably if you ask around, I bet generally, if you went through 20 people, you'd probably see about four people, five people who said they want to be a nurse. Really? Everyone wants, yeah. Like all the people that I've had work here anyways, like I think, uh, of the, of the four, I think there was a three people that wanted to be nurses. I think two went on to, to actually do it, you know? Right.

Um, so yeah, I don't know what everyone wants to be a nurse. And I think the, the thing is, it's like people say, Oh, there's always a job for a nurse. It's always in demand, but not everyone hires a nurse either. Like you'd be two nurses. Yeah, I sure did, but, uh, yeah, no, it's funny that way. So anyway, but I got really lucky with it. Just, yeah, I'm super happy with it. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah, definitely. Well, as we, as we start to wrap up, what, uh, what do we need to know lastly about labrums that you haven't told us already about your experience with labrums? Hmm. It'll be a pause here.

I have to think. Cut the pause, right? It's, it's, it's dramatic. It's just dramatic is all. Yeah. It's very dramatic. Um, oh man. Do you think you can, can everyone recover from a labral repair or is that just, uh. I think so. What do you, what do you need? For me. And it's just like, you know, like if I didn't play rugby or I wasn't so like active, I probably could have gone forth like with the, the no operation. You know what I mean? Cause I did have it rehabbed and I was cleared to kind of go back to things, but I went back to something that's really very like violent. You know, if I had gone back to like, even just hockey, for example, I probably would have been fine not having surgery.

Um, so I mean, I, I guess like a lot of people, even with that like traumatic kind of like subluxation and obviously dislocation. Um, and there might be like a small little slap tear in there, but you can, I guess like with the right physio and the right kind of like rehab strategy, you can rehab it properly without surgery. It's just a matter of like, what do you want to get back to? I mean, what, um, I don't think I asked this, but just, just so everyone knows how many days a week were you, were you doing stuff for your, for your recovery? Oh, like every day, like five, six times a week. Yeah.

Initially. Yeah. Like just getting back the range of motion and doing all those silly little strengthening exercises. Yeah. I took it pretty seriously. Okay, good. Yeah. I think, uh, that made a huge, huge difference, obviously. Yeah. I'm sure it's, uh, yeah, I think when I was, when I was recovering from the back thing, I, I, I did stuff every day and, uh, I, what did you do to your back? Oh, it was nothing major. Actually. It was just, uh, it was funny. It was, uh, there was, uh, so back in high school I had a, I had a small disc herniation. Um, it was from, it was an impact on a base. So it was a, it was a single, uh, traumatic incident.

Gotcha. Um, and then I was like 20 years, it was fine. And, and, uh, so just recently about a year or so ago, I was, I was deadlifting and it was kind of one of those moments where you're like, Hmm, that doesn't feel right. You know, you start to get all these creepy crawlies in your legs and stuff like that. And so it wasn't that big, like considering like what I see people with now, it's like, it's like, dude, like you, you have searing leg pain. And like, I was lucky. Yeah, no, for sure. But I, but I think considering like what, like I, I know what it could have been or what could happen. And so I, I took it very seriously.

Yeah. Definitely being like in the profession we are, I think, you know, when there is something of that nature, we, we make sure we do our due diligence and we preach it to our patients. Right. Practice how you preach, preach, preach what you practice, practice what you, I'm not sure which way it goes. Yeah. But in terms, sometimes I, sometimes we get stubborn too. And we're like, well, we can push through and push through most things. Sometimes we do too, too much. Well, I thought, I, I thought, and I don't know how it is in Canada, but I thought in U.S. The most, the most common reason why chiropractors, uh, they, they, uh, retire is because they hurt themselves, I thought.

Oh. And, uh, and, uh, back in the day they used to have these primo, like disability plans for chiropractors. Like you hurt yourself and you'll get your salary for a very long time. Right. And now they're like, like you pay like five, six grand a year and like, you only get like five years of coverage. Cause I think it was not profitable for the insurance company enough or they were paying out too much. So. Interesting. Yeah. Word on the street. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It would have, it would have paid really well if you were about 20 years older and you hurt yourself as a chiropractor. Yeah.

Dang. You missed the boat on that one. I know I did miss the boat, but I don't think I'd, I think it'd be very, it'd be very hard to like everywhere you go, you think that the disability police is following you. Right. Yeah. That's true. You're always looking over your shoulder. Yeah. And I can't do this stuff outside cause the guy might see me. Yeah. That's true. Um, cool. Well, thanks for being on. I hope that helps. I think it helps. It's, uh, you have a real story. I mean, it's just, uh, I mean, I, I think everyone who's got a real story about it, about a thing is, it's helpful to somebody, you know?

Yeah, no, for sure. I know for me, like the mental part of it was just such an important component and it was really like, I didn't think that's true, obviously any injury. And I don't know if that's something you've done podcasts on or, but that would be something to kind of get people's kind of stories. I'm sure it comes up just in like every conversation you have though, like with somebody about an injury is everybody has a completely different experience, you know, but those like five, five stages, I really, truly think that, you know, most people go through that with any kind of significant, whether it be overused, something that, you know, just takes you out of like running for like a considerable length of time or something acute.

I definitely think everybody goes through that and it's such an important part of recovery. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think they all, I think they, they, I think all the injuries kind of have it. And although, um, you might be talking about a labrum, uh, you're a labrum, I, I would hope that people that like you interact with your patients, it's like, they're like, huh, she's experienced something not that, but it's not like, Oh, she didn't have a knee problem. She doesn't understand. And it's like, I'm sure you understand, you know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Which is, yeah. So that's actually, I guess at the end of the day, it's kind of helped me just in terms of like talking with patients and getting things across, you know what I mean?

I've been through this, you will get through it. It'll take time and you'll have days where you're just pissed off at the world, but, uh, yeah, do the right things and it'll, it'll come. It's just so frustrating. You can scare them back into reality and just say that here's the things you could do if you had a labral tear and it stayed painful. That's true. Paddle boat. Yeah. Darts? No, not darts. No, you can't do darts. Yeah. One-handed. Ice skating? Oh, yeah. Um, hmm. God, this is hard. I don't know how you, what do you do with an arm? Wait, you said you couldn't run. No, I couldn't. The jostling was like super bothersome.

Oh, okay. Got it. Yeah. That makes sense. God, you can't do anything. You could probably cycle if you're one of those people who, who, uh. If you're upright. Right. Yeah. Probably. But you could beat, you could beach cruise. That's why people started beach cruising. Yeah. But yeah, I can't, I can't bike like that. I cannot. It has to be like full throttle or nothing. You gotta chill. You just gotta chill a little bit. Well, and that's kind of the thing. I had to, you know what I mean? So it was good maybe in that way. And it definitely made me, you know, realize how important being able to use my body is to me.

Right. So I definitely appreciate everything a whole lot now. Good. Even the things I don't like to do. I'm like, well, I'm going to do that for a few years. I can't wait to hear all that list. Yes, definitely. It's a long one. Yeah. You're probably going to reverse people into like, oh, you're right. I don't want to get better. I don't want to do any of that stuff ever again. Yeah. That's my plan. Do you, uh, do you want anyone to reach you? Do you want, you don't have to give them information if you don't want to. Uh, you totally can. Yeah, I might. I have like, um, so actually I'm a writer too, just like on my own time.

And I actually wrote like a couple of posts about like my injury. Uh, one specifically, uh, I think it was before my surgery, but it was like those five stages of grief. I kind of went through them. Um, so I don't know if that would be something that would like, I, it has resonated with just like some people that have read it like here that I know. Um, so that could be something I could provide as well. Yeah. I think that'd be good. I'm going to look it up right now. Personal trainer. I can send it to you via email if you'd like. Yeah, let's do that. Is it on your, is it on your website? It's on, I have a blog.

Um, here I'll find it. It's, it's called haliforniadreaming.wordpress.com. Halifornia? Yeah. California, but Halifornia. Hallie. Is that, is that, is that two L's in hell? Nope. Just one. H-A-L-I. Hallie. And it's WordPress. Okay. So yeah, send me a link to that and then I'll, I'll supply it with everybody. Um, I think that'd be great. I'd, I'd like to, I'd like to read it and just see. Yeah, no, I'd love to like pass that out if more people can. And I'd like to hear like other people's experience with that and if they can kind of relate to those kind of five stages. Yeah, that'd be great. I think that, uh, just as a real quick side note, I think one of the, one of the best responses of any article that I wrote was, uh, I wrote one about an oblique strain that I had and, uh, people still contact me, uh, um, probably once every couple of weeks, like just someone randomly somewhere who's experienced that, who were like, oh my God, I read your story.

And like, I have all the things and what do I do? And right. So they, they, I think they just feel the connection, you know? Yeah. So I think it helps people. I think yours will help people. Yeah. And that was kind of, yeah, my, uh, kind of hope in writing it too. I was not going to do anything. So I was like, I can type. It's your diary. Yeah. Basically just tell you all my deepest, darkest secrets. Yes. I can't wait to read this now. Yeah. God. All right. I know. I'll take it your way for sure. Well, thank you for being on. That was great. Cheers. Thank you so much. And I'll, uh, yeah, continue to listen.

It's great, great stuff. Perfect. Thanks. Uh, don't go anywhere yet. Okay. Deal. Thanks, Olivia, so much for being on. That was great. Uh, thanks for sharing your story. That's, uh, uh, I never would have thought the running thing, honestly. I didn't even think about it. So, uh, everyone, if you would like to read her article, I, I have not read it at the time of releasing this podcast, but I am going to read it, um, very soon. And I did link to it in the show notes as well. So, uh, I really do think there's a big mental part of recovery that I think a lot of people need to, to get through. And sometimes they need some handholding, which I don't mean that in a bad way.

I mean it in a good way. And sometimes they just need to be enlightened that that is a natural process that's occurring. They, they need to, uh, feel that it's okay to, to grieve and, uh, be angry and so on. So, uh, read her article, see what she has to say about it because I think, uh, the more we become in tune with, uh, our thoughts around, uh, the injury, your injury, if you have an, have an issue, then I think the better off we're going to be in the more, more set we will be to actually accept some type of correction or recovery strategy that you can get from a healthcare provider just like her.

So, uh, leave people better than how you found them. And if you're dating, date an Eagle Scout and I will see you guys next week.