Online consultations for back pain and how a video exam works

So, because I'm not there in person, yeah, a simple, okay, give me a toe touch. Let me know what you feel, where you feel it, if you feel any traveling symptoms at all, if you feel asymmetrical tightness in the hips or the hamstrings or the calves, anything like that, and let me know when you feel it. I take them through a toe touch, a back bend, a hip shift, side-to-side hip shift, I do a squat with them, and then I'll have them sit and I'll have them kick their leg out also and kind of slouch over to see what that feels, in addition to any other movement that they find causes symptoms. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. All right, everyone, this is Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the movement, movement. This is your first time. This is a podcast targeted at improving the communication between doctor and patient. It's like we're all hanging around having a beer, and I decided to get something from Barrel House. You know. I think I got the stout this time. I don't know why you decided to get that crummy, crummy beer that is Tecate Light. And someone else decided to get a big old margarita Cadillac, the extra edition.

We're all hanging out and just talking about CHOP. And I think it's kind of rude to not have common communication or common terminology, and so that's what this podcast is all about. Hopefully, at the end of it all, everybody is happier. The clinician gets the patients to feel better. The patient feels better. Everybody's happy. So, this podcast today is going to have Grant Elliott on. This is part two. Grant Elliott was on last week. If you are hearing this podcast now and think, I don't know what the hell you're talking about, go back on to the prior week. All right? There's no point in going on further in this one unless you actually hear part one.

I did have Grant on about a year ago. At the time, he had 200,000 Instagram followers. Now, he's at like 150-something thousand little bastard. He's got so many darn followers, and he's getting so good at videos, very entertaining to watch, doing a great job. And he's still, at this point of this podcast releasing, he's probably going to be a doctor at this point, but he's basically still a student. So, doing a great job. I'm very thankful for all the work that he's put out. I'm going to share a little short story about myself. As I do every single episode, it's something you can expect from me.

Whether you like it or not, it's happening. It is happening. Hoping that you guys tend to like me as your host so you can follow along with this journey that I'm taking through podcasting and just learning from people. I've learned a lot over the two years, two and a half years now, I think, of doing this podcast. And there was a couple times where I thought I might stop doing it. I don't know how long it'll actually go on, but I'm having a great time right now. Anyways, we're going to share that short story, and we're going to go straight into the second part of the interview with Grant Elliott at Rehab Fix on Instagram.

So, as you guys know, or if you've been a long time listening to the podcast, I like tomahawk steaks, all right? And so, recently, I was asked to actually cook a steak for a Friendsgiving. And so, I went around looking for these steaks. I went to one Costco by my house, which there's two Costcos within a short driving distance. And I looked there. They didn't have it. And I thought, oh, shit, okay, I'm going to go talk to the butcher. Talk to the butcher. And they're like, oh, maybe you should go to the Huntington one up north Huntington. They usually have a lot more. Okay, cool. I'm going to go up there, and that's usually where I find them anyway.

So, I went up there. There's nothing there. And I started thinking about it because this happened about a year or so ago, again, where I literally went to four different places, butcheries and so on, looking for a tomahawk steak around the holiday time. And I couldn't find anything. Like, I ended up getting a poor man tomahawk, which is a tri-tip. And I sucked at cooking the darn thing. It's just different. Either way, though, I started realizing that around holiday times where maybe they stock more of hams and turkeys and whatever else they're cooking on the holidays because people don't cook the best meat of all time, which is a tomahawk steak on those holidays, except for Fourth of July.

July, by the way, it's coming. Coming. Can't wait. Best holiday ever. Freedom Day. So, anyways, if you're looking to cook a tomahawk steak, you won't be able to do it in a holiday area, a holiday time, especially a winter holiday. So, stock up. You can wrap a little bit of foil around them. Put some butcher paper. Put it in the deep freezer. Something that has, like, a thaw, like, not a thaw-free one because if you do it'll dehydrate your meat, you don't want that. You want it moist. And so, just take it out of there and just get it ready. And then, so, I still got about three of them sitting in my cooler at the office and just waiting, just waiting for the rare time where there's not a tomahawk steak.

All right. Let's get to the show. What else do you want to talk about since we're getting up into 55 minutes here? Well, what else? I don't know. I know we kind of did this on a whim of, like, hey, let's just chat. I think, I feel like we usually have pretty good conversations and I thought we'd just record it. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Normally, if I call you with intention, we'll talk an hour naturally over one particular topic. Yeah. I should have just waited until you text me about something. Hey, do you have a second? Yeah, I got an hour. Why don't we just talk right now? Yeah, that's what it really means.

Hey, five minutes. Five minutes, I swear. Yeah. Fifty minutes later. Okay, thanks, man. Appreciate it. I know you're not a busy guy or anything. Oh, no. I always like, I like talking. I like chatting. There's, the only problem with, like, the reason I'm not on the phone really that much is because my drive to work isn't long. And so, I only like being on the phone if I'm doing something. But if I'm sitting there, like, at home or at the office, I'm like, God, I don't want to be on the phone right now. So, I don't know how you lift and be on the phone at the same time. I do. Well, it's because my phone is my job.

So, I have no choice. You know, I am, no matter where I am, I'm on my phone 24-7. And you have an iPhone 7, huh? Yeah, and it's just crap. I can't, I don't want to get on too big of a rant. But literally. You're drag racing a pinto, bro. Oh, it's ridiculous. Yeah, it's exactly right. Exactly. I was in Indiana the other day for a bachelor party for my buddy Colton. And we went to the IU versus Michigan game. And it was a good time. But anyway, the morning of, I've been doing like a one mile run every morning. Just because I've always, I was good at running when I was in wrestling. And then, you know, I started putting on more weight and stuff.

Just different goals. And I'm a lot, you know, I'm not 130 pound wrestler anymore. I was like 200 when I first started running again here recently. And so I was like, I want to just run just to challenge myself, something new. So I listened to David Goggins' book recently called Can't Hurt Me, all about mental toughness. Amazing book. Everyone out there should listen to it. So I was in Indiana and I woke up to, you know, 33 degree weather. And I was like, I'm going to go do my mile run because I do my mile run. It's just what I do. And I was getting ready to walk out the door. My dad's like, hey, aren't you going to, because I'll stay with my friends because I'm originally from Indiana.

My dad's like, don't you want like a coat or something? And I was like, no, no, I'm good. You know, it's not going to kill me. I'll just wear my t-shirt. I'll wear my t-shirt. I'll wear my shorts and I'll just go on a mile run around the neighborhood. No, it's not going to kill me. So I made a story on that because I like posting, you know, I'm a passionate person. I love motivating others. And so I was like, I'm just going to, I'm going to make a story post on this about mental toughness, about, you know, making yourself uncomfortable and the growth that you can get from it. So anyway, what I'm getting to here is I did the full mile run.

Okay. It was actually a mile and a half. So I don't know how, I don't know how long it took me, but then I was outside. I was like, okay, before I go inside, I got to make this story post so I can show that the temperature is this and everything. So I'm walking back and forth in front of my parents' house, recording this story. And it's about six to seven videos in that story. And my phone keeps deleting different chunks of it as I'm trying to post it. And I stayed outside walking back and forth in 33 degree weather for my parents' house for about 20 minutes trying to record this story. And my phone was not working.

And I swear, I almost threw it through my parents' window. And then I ran inside. I took my mom's phone, signed into my Instagram on my mom's phone, and then recorded it on my mom's phone. And I went back outside to record it. And then I went inside. So I am so over this phone and not working because it's my job. But anyway, yeah, man, I'm on my phone 24-7. So I know that was a crazy rant. So when I'm in the gym, I throw my headphones in. I'm calling people in the gym while I'm in the middle of a set of squats. I've had numerous conversations with you with 300 plus pounds on my back while I'm squatting.

And then, yeah, yeah, yeah, your girlfriend's like, who are you talking to right now? Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's just Grant. Oh, okay, okay. Makes sense. And I'm responding to emails and I'm always responding to Instagram messages. And I mean, yeah, my life is my phone. My business is my phone. So I have no choice but to just accept that, hey, it's going to be, you know, a part of the conversation no matter where I'm at or what I'm doing. So I just, I just got used to it. And so the gym is a good way to escape, but it's also a good time to take calls and everything too. So I always have a headset and talking to people.

And this is the headset you were, we go full circle. This is the headset you chose, huh? No, no, no. I have a nice Jabra Bluetooth headset. Once again, everyone leveraged social media. I got it for free. It's like $185 set of Bluetooth headphones that are absolutely incredible. So I just pop that sucker in and I just go in my day. They're lovely. Absolutely lovely. I love them. I'm going to try to get another pair for my life, actually. Oh, good. Try it. Leverage it. Exactly. Hey, I actually do have a, I have a question. It's a side question. It won't take too long though. But with, I had heard that.

So we were actually, so we were talking. I want to figure out what you, what you figured out on this thing. All of the, all of the subscribership for Instagram, it slowed down. And we talked about it at one time, figuring out what the hell, what, what was that? And did you figure it out? It was like three months ago, right? Yeah. So mine's still pretty slow. Well, yeah. And I'll get, and I'll ask you a couple of questions to see if they're the same as what happened to me. But so you, you, you had your Instagram for a while and you had, you had made the goal. Okay. I want to get 10,000 followers within like a year.

And so you started posting very frequently with good videos and you were growing very fast at first. You're each of your videos were getting like over a thousand views, which is crazy good. At first, like that, I was super, super impressed. I was like, Oh my gosh, you're going to be at a hundred K within a year. Like you're growing like crazy. And then all of a sudden you started slowing down too. So I want to, I want to ask you first, before I answer, after you had started posting all of your new content, how long in did you start posting about your, uh, your free audio guides and attaching your website?

Yeah. The, the, the website was always attached. I don't really don't think the audio came about until, let's see, I can actually look up when my, I, I'm going to, I'm going to search when, when I first posted my audio because I have it in my Google drive, probably when I created it, but I know we were talking about the possibility that because you're promoting something, does that knock you down? Uh, I see, uh, crap. I see July, I see July 25th. Um, so I forget when we were taught, when we had been talking about that stuff originally, but I, I took it off, I took it off for a while. Uh, and actually, so there was, first I had Linktree on there, which had, um, podcast episodes and videos and blah, blah, blah, uh, in addition to the other stuff, but there was never really a verbal call to action other than maybe on stories.

But with Linktree, I took it down and I'm like, look, I'm just going to do single link. I'll do website. And I did that. And then there was no change on that for a week or so. And then I think I went to, screw it, I'm going to put one audio link, a bit.ly link in there. And so I did. And, and so it was only for the Puriformis audio guide. It wasn't for the other ones. And for everybody else, I just tell them direct message me and I'll just send you the link. And so it was a lot more work, but I was trialing it and it still hasn't made a change. Um, and, but I know you took down all, you took down, you didn't take on all links.

You just took down Linktree, right? At the time. Yeah. So I had Linktree there for a while, um, with just like my Facebook and YouTube and my account was growing very, very fast. And then it kind of, you know, there's ebbs and flows, there's natural ebbs and flows, but with me, it was way too, it was too much to call it a coincidence. So when I launched my website, I had launched, uh, the program at the same time. So as soon as I put the direct link to my low back program in my bio, everything on my page crashed, like greater than 50%, it decreased. So profile visits per week. I was at like consistently, I was at 18,000 to 24,000 profile visits per week.

And I, I, the second I added my link to it, literally the next day dropped 4,000. The next day after that dropped 4,000. The next day after that was down to 8,000. And now I hover around 8,000 all the time ever since that happened. And my views, my views absolutely tanked. The comments absolutely tanked, everything tanked. And at first I was like, is it just, is this just like a natural course of action? So I tried messing around with the link tree in the bit.ly, trying different links in my bio to see if there was an Instagram algorithm that was reading them and basically flagging my account for trying to make a living off of Instagram without paying Instagram.

And I messed around with it too. And I didn't really get a huge, big of a difference. But then the biggest thing for me was I was like, okay, this is just way too, this is, this is too coincidental to be a coincidence. And so I contacted a few other large accounts that I'm friends with. And I asked them, Hey, I know you're selling things or you have a program. I just, I was just wondering when you first launched that, did that have an influence on your engagement? And every single person said yes. And it never went back. Oh, so every, so once you do it, you're screwed. That's what I'm, that's what I'm hearing.

So yeah, every single person I've talked to that is selling anything at all. And it doesn't have to be, you know, it could be rehab, nutrition, or like empowerment, motivation, like whatever. Every, every person I've talked to that is selling something through their Instagram, they said all of their engagement crashed and it hasn't gone back up ever since they posted. So is it the sell? Is it the, is it actually selling or is it linking? Because you could be linking to a, okay. Yeah. It's a, yeah. I think it's selling. I think it's selling because I had my link tree in my bio for a very long time.

And that was when I was gaining like 2000 followers every single day for like weeks straight. So I don't think it's, I don't think it's just a link. I think it's some sort of algorithm where Instagram can go through the link and detect if there's something on the other side that you're selling. I think that's what it is. I almost wonder if like, maybe there's a, like a reset on this or, or there's like a, a timeline, let's just say where, and this is totally just pitbull in it. But let's just say if I've posted one post per day since July 25th on mine is when I put that link in there, which on the other side is just as free audio.

It doesn't, it just goes, it goes to an email opt-in, which I'm guessing they probably flag that. What if there was like a, you got to do 365 posts that are actually not like since that time, since taking it away. Like you just post a shit ton a day, like 10 times a day, like some people do, you know, you know, repeated, repeated videos and so on. I know you recycle content and I need to, you know, just recycle it and just, I don't know. I, I, I find it hard to believe that it's like a one-time shot. Like it's got a, like there's got, if there's an algorithm, I would imagine it doesn't flag it completely.

It just, it gives you a chance to kind of recuperate. That's, that would be my thought, but. I would hope. I would, I would sure hope. But I mean, I don't know. I mean, I messed with it and now I wasn't messing with that for weeks or anything, but I haven't been able to figure it out. I don't know. I mean, I've, I've shared, I've reposted videos from when I had, let's say 80,000 or 90,000 followers that these videos were getting above a hundred thousand views every single time I posted them. And ever since I put something on my link or on my bio now, when I repost those same videos that would always get above a hundred thousand views, they get like 20.

Yeah. And that's it. Like I, it's almost impossible for me to get a video above 50,000 views now when, before I posted my website, almost every single video I posted was getting at least 40,000 and I was getting one video every single week that would, that would break a hundred thousand views. That does not happen anymore. So I'm not sure. Well, you know, so I'll tell you, look, I'm looking at mine right now and, uh, I did post one recently, which was kind of interesting that it actually became more popular. And so remember originally you were looking at mine, you're like, Oh, a thousand, 2,000, 5,000, 5,000 views.

It looks pretty good. Right. And so I reposted Sarah's deadlift video, which actually was, when you look way back in the day, it was one of the more popular ones. I think it hit about around 20, 30, something like that. And so if I'm scrolling through my recent ones, 500, 500, 300, 900, yeah, that ain't bad. Um, and when I get to Sarah's again, 2,500. Oh wow. I don't know what it is about this, like one video, maybe it's the, maybe it's the information within it, but that one still did better than the other ones in relationship to even like scalability, you know? So I don't, I don't know. Do you find that like your videos that you reposted are popular before that they become popular again?

Uh, yes. Before I, before I launched my website. Yes, for sure. Now, even then, I mean, comparative, they will still get more views than the other ones that I'm posting. So it still shows like, okay, it's still getting more engagement. It's just not the same as what it was before. So if they were, if I was averaging 30, 40,000 views per video, and then a really good video would get a hundred thousand, well, just scale it all back. So now I average around 20,000 views. And if I posted that same video, it wouldn't get a hundred thousand. It might get 40, 50, 60,000. So it's still doing better than all the others, but it's just not as much.

Well, you know, I was back in the day, I'd interviewed, uh, uh, Jenna scare. And so I said, how many times you got to post on things basically like multiple times a day, you know? I almost wonder if like, I know that you post stories multiple times a day. I know that's probably helpful, but I feel like I'm just going to post the shit out of posts right now. You're going to, you're going to see so many posts from me for the same thing. Just everyone know, I want you to know, this is going to be a test. Okay. I'm not trying to flood, flood your market, but let's just, I just, I just want to try it.

Oh, you know what you can do? Can't you have someone else post your video from their account? Um, like say like, say there's a video you get 10,000 views from and then say, I wouldn't be able to post it because I have already tried to, you know, link something. But say, say Geronimo post it. What if Geronimo's would became viral and he doesn't have that many followers, like the, the scalability doesn't happen. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just to AB, AB test it. Oh my gosh. That's true. Yeah. See if it went viral on theirs and not in yours. Yeah. Cause you're flagged. Yeah. Hmm. I wonder, I don't know.

I always just feel like everyone's out to get, to get you. That's the vibe that I've gotten from like just Facebook and Instagram. It's like, unless you're paying someone money, um, I think you're being held back. Well, you're being on, you're on, we're on rented land anyway, so I, I can't argue with that, but I wish, I wish you just kind of knew if you were flagged on that or not, but I would just like to know, you know, I would just like to know. I'm not going to do anything about it. I'm still not, I don't do ads or anything like that, which might change. I might actually start doing some promotional stuff here soon to try to grow my online presence even more.

Um, but if I could just, just some honesty, just some transparency. Yeah. Well, you know the, so the audio is, I don't know. Yeah. Do you heard my audio, right? Yeah. The audio has really worked pretty, pretty well, like in relationship to like, I don't have as many people through there, but for all the questions that I'll get, I'll just suggest the audio. Most people go through and get it and now they're no longer on, on rented land, which is helpful because they go through that. I'm sure you have another, another opt in on your end, but the audio seems like a really easy one. I have no problem with recording audio as you can tell.

So I'll just do them for various different problems. And actually I've started to use this in office now. Um, beginning of the year, January 1st. I think first podcast of the year, it, it highlights a C5 ridiculopathy, ridiculopathy, shoulder blade pain, um, that people think is related to tight muscles or whatever. And so when people call the office, they're like, Oh, I got this thing. It's like, and they're just not biting. They're just not wanting to come in. Right. And so we're like, you know, we have a free audio on this. You want to five myths of shoulder blade pain. You want it? And so we're going to start doing that for multiple different types of highlighted conditions.

Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. Good old, good old cloward sign. Um, I talk, I've talked to so many people about that. They're like, Oh, it's just a rib or it's just a rhomboid, like my rhomboid pain. And I'm like, they're like other clinicians or, or, or even people make that doesn't make any sense. Like cloward sign all day long. I think that was one of the biggest things I learned in school as well about, you know, uh, different cervical referral patterns, but good old, good old Ralph cloward, the neurologist at Pearl Harbor probing, probing discs and seeing it shoot back to the shoulder blade.

That's a huge sign. I think a lot of clinicians need to know about, cause I see posts about that all the time, chronic rib out or chronic rhomboid pain, not going away. And I'm just like, you got to check the neck. Yeah. Come on, buddy. If I, if I had to do another region of the body that was like, I know you see piriformis all over my page for upper extremity, I'm pretty sure I've just say shoulder blade pain or six scapula. Like it would be all over the damn place. And it's just going to be some, uh, cervical intervention at first. Yep. Oh my gosh. And it'll, and it'll get 90% of the people better.

Oh, it'd be great. Yeah. It's, it's like, yeah, you're right. Like scapula pain, like rhomboid or rib out is like the piriformis syndrome of the upper body. Yeah. But it's, it's a sexy thing, you know, like people, people don't know what to do about it. Like they, they've had a lot of suffered, a lot of treatments. They haven't worked. It hasn't worked for them. And then lo and behold, so now a really quick break from the show. I want to invite you to take a look through, dig through the five-step patient care series, the webinar series that I put on. I recorded it because I know a lot of people are not able to fly and go places, uh, at some points of, I guess, time.

I don't know when you're listening to this, but at some point in history, people couldn't travel that much. And so I want you to take this course and take it fully through. And here's the reasons why I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Any clinician who is under five years of practice, you don't know as much as you think you do. And I know that a clinician that's 20 years plus is probably going to tell me the same thing and that's okay. I'm okay with that. But I believe the only way we're going to improve our knowledge as a profession is to learn from other people who have already been through there and figured out what it's worked and what hasn't worked.

So I want you to take this course to be able to get on the right track and start piggybacking on the knowledge that, that people who have been there before you already have. Again, I don't pretend to know everything, but I do know enough to be dangerous and I'm pretty good at organizing. So I hope you organize a lot of the methods you've already learned. Through the five-step patient care series, I'm not going to tell you not to use tissue work. I'm not going to tell you not to use a certain type of stretching, but it has its time and place. And so step one is history taking, working diagnosis, and examination, dynamic testing.

Step two is first aids. Step three is corrective exercises. Step four is loading. Step five is playfulness. So there is a time and place for all of that in there. But where does it fit? Where does your stretching fit? Does it fit under first aid? Correctives? Does tissue work fall under loading? Does it fall under first aids? Where does medication fall? So I want you to be able to progress people well through a treatment plan. And I'll show you what I use through these treatment plans as well with different areas of the body to be able to get them to where I need them to go as well. And so it starts with hip and it goes all the way through referred symptoms.

Referred symptoms, number five and six, are absolutely going to blow your damn mind. I do not. I believe in that statement. It will blow your freaking mind. Pseudo syndromes. The things that we treat that actually we shouldn't be treating the way we were treating them and how to get rid of them faster. So with the shoulder one, I'm going to share with you just a little blurb with someone who did testimonial. This use with DMACS videos are perfect combo. Hmm. I didn't read this before I said it. But so anyways, there's the DMACS strength conditioning series in there, by the way. If you are interested in step four of the five-step patient cure series, when you have to go through the hip one and you think, hmm, I wonder what else there is.

I wish you would go into loading more. We do. We do it with Dr. DMACS, and that's also in the product section, too. I know that I've used a lot of the strategies that Dr. DMACS has used in my clinic for shoulder and upper quarter and lower back, and it's just groundbreaking shit. Tension. Good coaching. Good cueing. Get that. It's p2sportscare.com slash products. It's the best use of your money that you'll ever get. There is no CEs available. It's just good, hard, badass information and how to get people from point A to point B faster. Now back into the show. All right. Anything else you want to clean up with before I – sorry, that was a 15-minute ongoing exit.

What do you want to – anything else you want to finish up with? I mean, sure. I'll just say, you know, for those who listen to all this rambling until the end, I would just say if I've learned anything, you know, I always kind of like – like I said, I'm passionate, like motivating people. If I've learned anything from the last year of doing social media and just working hard and pushing myself, it's just that don't be afraid to do the work and just set a goal. I would be absolutely nowhere if I did not practice daily goal setting. If you don't have goals, you don't have anything pushing you at all.

So it's okay if you don't want to do Instagram or if you don't want to do Facebook or YouTube, whatever. That's what I chose to do and I set a goal and I achieved it. But with whatever your passion is, do not go goalless through life. You got to be willing to put the work in. So there is so many possibilities that are out there. You just got to be willing to go find them. So for me, you know, specifically with Instagram, I made my goal with my following. I work hard every single day on it and I've met so many people. I have so many resources, so many options. And it would not have been possible without social media.

It wouldn't have been possible. So right now already, I'm getting a seminar booked in February, actually, in the Bay Area in California. I was able to have an online client that was a gym owner in Thailand. He owns one of the biggest gyms in Thailand. His family owns a stream of hotels out there. And so I'm going to go out to Thailand and speak. And seriously, it is the best decision I've ever made in my life to pick something. It doesn't matter what it is, but pick something, set a goal, and do everything you can to achieve that goal. And so many people, oh, well, what if I don't know what my goal is or whatever?

Just find something. It doesn't matter if you don't know what you want to do. Find something because if your goal is and you're not going anywhere. So, yeah, it's just the willingness to work hard, the willingness to put yourself in uncomfortable situations, the willingness to just keep working, working, and working. And, yeah, it's seriously amazing where I'm at already. And I'm so blessed. And I'm just so honored to know the people that I know and to be at the spot in my life that I'm already at. And it makes me regret absolutely nothing up until this point. And it's, you know, it's just a – and I had so many people, oh, well, what if, like, you know, you're putting so much time to Instagram.

What if it doesn't work out? Like what if it ends up being all for nothing? And my response to that was the only decider of whether or not your effort will go unwarranted is you. I don't hope. Oh, I hope this Instagram thing works out. I decide it. So if I say, okay, this is going to work, then that means I'm going to do whatever it takes to get to that point. You might have to – so if you set a goal, you might have to work extra hard because you might realize, man, that was a really lofty goal. Or I go, oh, this was a really easy goal. I can either keep that goal where it is and I can work less and focus on other things or it can make that goal more difficult.

But I hate the concept of, oh, I'm just going to set a goal and see if it happens. No, no, no, no, no. You're in control of if you're going to reach that goal or not. So you just need to say it's going to happen. Then you do whatever it takes to make that happen. So there's nothing holding you back. You have to be the one to decide and then you do it. It's really as simple as that. You just got to be willing to do it. Can you point at me one more time? I'm looking at you, Sebastian. I'm pointing at you, buddy. Oh, just wait until my seminars, man. I'm going to be pointing at everyone in the room.

Oh, shit. I'm going to be calling people out to speak. Oh, it's going to be, man, it's going to be just half like a motivational speech. Oh, God. I bet it will be. I can't wait. That's why you're listening to David Goggin. All right. Well, thanks for being on. If everyone wants to reach Grant, at Rehab Fix seems to be the quickest way. Although, well, do you want to do your email for students or is that just because you might not be responding to all those direct messages? I respond to every single direct message, man. I'm to the point where I can almost hire someone to completely take over my Instagram, my website, my emails.

I would love to do that. But anyway, yeah, at Rehab Fix on Instagram. Also, therehabfix.com. My email is grant at therehabfix.com. I check all messages. I respond to everybody. I'm here to help. I'm here to be a resource. I've had so many people reach out and help me, and I want to be that exact same resource for other students or other professionals as well. And if you know anyone that has low back issues, I do all the consultations. Send them my way. I would appreciate it. Yeah. Well, thanks for being on. Absolutely. Thank you, Sebastian. Always a good time. Psych. Okay, so we're right back.

We decided that Grant is going to be a double issue. And so we're talking off air, and I said, oh, shit. We could have gone another 10 minutes and made a double issue out of this because it's already about an hour 20 in the interview, and I got the front and back end stuff. So Grant's back. We have just one more topic that I want to see if he was able to share this because obviously if things are working well for him, I thought maybe we should know what his system is. We talked about systems earlier. So Grant, can you share with us then when someone contacts you on Instagram, what does that interaction look like, and how do you get them to finally pay you some money to show them what's up?

So I get people that message me every single day. Not everyone is willing to do something about their issues. Some people just want a free piece of advice, and even though they've been struggling with something for years and years and years, but other people actually want to do something about it. The key to determining if someone actually wants to do something about it is figuring out what it's preventing them from doing, what their goals are, and then also trying to do your best to match previous scenarios that you've been through with their scenario. So if someone replies to one of my polls and votes yes, I'm struggling with low back issues, I will contact that person.

Hey, Sarah, I saw that you voted yes to having low back issues. How long have you been dealing with this? They'll say, oh my gosh, two years, five years, ten years, whatever it is. So we all know, okay, that's way too long. That sounds like someone hasn't really been able to help. So I'll say, man, that's way too long. I'm really sorry that you've been struggling with that. Have you not found anyone to teach you how to resolve this yet? Specific phrasing on that. Not, oh, you haven't seen anyone for this yet. I used to do that, but now I say, have you not found anyone to teach you how to resolve this yet?

That frames a very different approach. I go, hey, you know what? Actually, I haven't. I've seen this person, this person, this person, but no one's taught me how to resolve it yet. Okay, well, what movements are you struggling with? How is sitting for long periods bending over or leaning backwards if they say, oh, man, just bending over, I can't even touch my toes anymore. That's, man, that's way too uncomfortable. Well, you better believe I have tons of before and after pictures of individuals with low back issues that weren't able to bend over and touch their toes. So I will send them that before and after picture.

Question on that. How do you get them to release their HIPAA on that? Your HIPAA? Yeah, for the pictures. Oh, so what I do is if I see them in person, I have them sign a social media release form. If I do an online consultation with them, then I record. I use Zoom, and I'll go through that process, how I have the Zoom integrated and everything. I record each consultation, and I will ask them on the video if I'm allowed to use either a picture from it or an audio clip or a video clip, and I get them to – some people say no. Most people say yes. I have it recorded and on file if they say yes. So you save that entire interaction?

I record the entire online consultation, yes. Okay. The entire thing, and I have it on file. So – and I'll get to how that's set up in a second. With video or just audio? Just audio? The video. No, the video. Oh, shit. And I can extract the audio if I want. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Go ahead. Sorry. So then I'll send them that picture. Oh, similar to this individual? Yes, exactly like that. Oh, my gosh. And I'll say, well, you know, I found that same issue on this person. They also said this, this, and this. Is this something that you would be interested in achieving? Yes, absolutely. I've been looking for someone that can help me with this.

Okay, great. I help individuals all around the globe with my online consultations, such as this individual I sent you. Is this something you'd be interested in? Would you like the details? Yes, I would love the details. I sent them the details and I said, does this sound like something that would benefit you? Well, of course. Yes, absolutely. This would benefit me. Awesome. I'd love to get started. Here's the pricing information on it. You know, let's get rolling. And then they make the decision from there if they want to go through with it or if they don't, at which case, if they're like, yes, I want to do it, let's do it.

I send them a Calendly link. So the very, very top of the funnel is my Instagram. My Instagram comes, you know, gets them in. We're talking through DMs and the next step is Calendly. I have my Calendly set up so that it's integrated with both Zoom and Stripe. So I send them my Calendly link, which is set up for a one-hour online consultation with RehabFix with me. They will get that link. Super, super easy to schedule. I'd be sure to let them know this schedule only takes 60 seconds, which is literally the truth. You can see all my available times. You click the time you want. You put in your card information and you're done.

The second they pick, the time that works for them. And also what's really great about Calendly is it auto-syncs to their IP address. So if their phone is connected to the local time zone, wherever they're at in the world, Calendly automatically syncs with them. So a lot of people, 70% of the individuals I see are overseas. And almost all of them say, hey, I think we're going to have scheduling conflicts because we're in different time zones. And I get to say, nope, it automatically syncs. So whatever time zone they pick or whatever time zone they're already synced to, those are the times that they see.

It spits back the time zone for me and everything's kosher. There's nothing you got to worry about. So the payment system is through Stripe. And then Calendly is synced with Zoom. So the second they schedule the appointment and the payment goes through, then Zoom automatically generates a one-hour meeting for that time and spits back out email to both me and the individual and sends it to my email, automatically puts it on my schedule in my email. My email is synced with Setmore, which is online scheduling for my in-person clients. And it automatically spits it to that scheduling system as well.

So it's super duper easy. They get the link that they need. I get the link that I need. It's on my calendars. Everything's all good. And that's kind of the current setup. And then with the online, yeah, go ahead. So that was all good. I'm kind of curious if our scheduling software would take that. I used to have Setmore, but I'm kind of curious. It looks like you were in a gold chain when all I see is the small screen. Yeah. Anyways. So when someone goes through and finally does that then, and you have this consultation set up, this video consultation, what does that look like? Is it just bend forward, bend backwards, sideways?

Cool. Try that. Hey, oh my God. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. Everyone is, everyone is so shocked. Like the biggest thing is, oh, I don't think online consultation is going to work because you're not in the same room as me. Well, what, what difference is, what difference is me going to be in the same room? Oh, well, you can like touch the area that hurts. I go, okay, what's that going to, what's that going to inform me? You can walk up to any door in the world and you can touch the door hinge. Does that tell you if the door hinge works? No. It tells you nothing about the door except for the fact that you're touching metal.

So I understand people have this preconceived notion that you have to touch in order to know what's going on. And for a majority of low back issues, you and I both know that that is not the case. So as long as you can effectively communicate that and build the trust, then a lot of people are shocked by the kinds of differences that we make with that initial online consultation. So it begins with, of course, conversation, getting to know a good amount about that person. I usually spend the first 15 to 20 minutes just talking, learning about them. Where are they from? It's always really, really cool meeting people overseas, which like I said, is 70%.

So on any given day, I'll get Thailand, Taiwan, India, Egypt, Sweden, Germany, Australia, any given day. So I get to learn about them, about their culture, about their family. It's really awesome. And then of course, we'll dive into the low back issue, get a good history. So because I'm not there in person, yeah, a simple, okay, give me a toe touch. Let me know what you feel, where you feel it, if you feel any traveling symptoms at all, if you feel asymmetrical tightness in the hips or the hamstrings or the calves, anything like that. And let me know when you feel it. I take them through a toe touch, a back bend, a hip shift, side to side hip shift.

I do a squat with them and then I'll have them sit and I'll have them kick their leg out also and kind of slouch over to see what that feels. In addition to any other movement that they find causes symptoms. One person was like, every time I put my coat on, my shoulder doesn't feel good. It feels restricted. So I said, okay, we're going to put your coat on numerous times and we're going to see what makes that feel better. So then I'll just coach them through different movements. And as long as you can effectively communicate what you want the individual to do, or I can just stand up back away from the camera and show the movement myself, that's really all you need to do.

A lot of good interventions aren't hands-on anyway. So as long as I can just be a good coach and use proper cueing, I can get pretty much anyone to do exactly what I want in regards to the positioning and everything. Give that a few goes, stand back up, go back through our baselines, look at the changes. And that's a great way to not only keep us both very honest because, because, you know, I'm not hands-on and we use the baselines to compare before and after clinical audit process and they will see, oh my gosh, this one feels so much better. This one feels so much better. And it's a great way to empower them because they realize, okay, I don't need someone to touch me.

I don't need someone right here telling me exactly what to do. I don't need to be dependent on anybody because I'm here on my own thousands and thousands of miles away from this individual. All I needed was some guidance and I was able to find the ways to make myself feel better. That's what's so special about it. And that's what gives so many people the aha moment of, oh my gosh, I can do this. I can do this. And that's what's so special. What do you think? Why do you think 70% is overseas? I've had this conversation with people. Here's my opinion. I mean, the United States is 10% of the world population, but we consume 90% of pharmaceuticals.

Our healthcare is much more drug and surgery oriented than other healthcare systems. So purely with that being said, I think other cultures are way more receptive to movement and exercise for their common aches and pains or restrictions. Where in the U S everyone wants a pill or something else. And, you know, I actually, I almost had an online consultation with someone. They were trying to book it for their dad and their dad had extreme symptoms, very, very bad symptoms. Had seen numerous providers. Nothing was working. Was being told the only thing left is surgery. And he was like, Hey, I want to set up an online consultation.

I'm trying to set it up for my dad. Like get just, you know, hold on. Like, I want to try to do this. And his dad was like, I don't believe that movement can help anything regarding the back or like shoulders or anything. He thought, he thought it was, he thought it was a like, like, you know, hocus pocus, basically that movement could help anything. The U S is the only country I've ever heard someone say that. So I think it's purely the receptiveness that cultures have to movement and exercise, which the U S is not doing really good with that stuff. We're, we're getting better, but that's, that's my opinion.

It's interesting. I get, I could see that. Yeah. Um, I guess I don't have any more on that topic, but it's interesting. Yeah. Majority. Yeah. Majority is overseas. And what's funny is like, you know, obviously I'm selling things in U S dollars and for most people, the conversion kills them. Right. But people in these other, you know, other areas, uh, sometimes, sometimes $150 is a lot for someone overseas, especially like in India. But guess what? They're not getting, they're not getting help where they're at. They're trying, they're trying, they're trying, not getting any help. And until they, you know, I can't help everyone.

I haven't helped everyone, but most, and you know, they're going to give me a try. I'm usually people's last resort. Like this guy isn't even in the same room. He can't even touch me. And we ended up getting some pretty dang good results and at least getting them some answers. And people are willing to, well, people are willing to spend the money on good care. But yeah, people in the U S where it could almost be considered cheap in the U S. Uh, yeah. I don't get many clients from the U S. That's interesting. Yeah. Like it, cause healthcare should be covered then. Right. Yeah. So, uh, after that initial interaction, what, what happens then?

What happens is we stay up to date. Um, we usually stay in touch via email or DMS. I write them a two week program. I'll, I'll send them something for the first week and I'll say, okay, keep up to, keep up to date. Some people message me every day. Some people just give me a summary at the end of the week. And I'll take that information. Maybe I have a few more questions with them because things are maybe not going as great as we would want, or maybe things are going slightly South or if everything's going awesome, then I might progress them a little bit, might add a little bit more, uh, range to a certain exercise, a little bit more pressure to a certain exercise or just a more challenging exercise.

And I'll send them the second week. We'll touch base at the end of that. And, um, if it is something like a neck shoulder or whatever, then I do have follow-up rates. I have a, you know, continue two week program without any more, any more video appointments, or I have a 30 minute video follow-up appointment with an additional two weeks. Um, or if they have a low back issue, very commonly, they will just transfer right on over to my full six month low back program because it was almost used as a screening process to determine, okay, would this approach be effective for you? And if they've done amazing with that first week or that second week, then we both know, okay, you are ideal for my six month low back program.

And then I just credit them towards that. And I roll them right into that and they're pretty much set to go and I'm still there if they need me. Yeah. Interesting. Um, yeah. Based upon when you showed me the six month program. So earlier when I talked about the, given the person the choice of, do you want to do this, this or that basically, or what do you want to do? How much help do you want? So the, the, the template, uh, for mainly it's, it's going to be for flexion intolerance. So it's going to be discogenic, nerve root, um, sciatic, basically that kind of stuff. It was just the easiest, easiest cover all.

I obviously, it won't be for everybody. Kind of like, I'm hearing you're having the same thing where if it becomes an extremity, a shoulder, then all of a sudden, like the game changes a little bit because the program, that template of program is not created there as much. Um, but yeah, I started making about five weeks worth already. And so that is, I'm not going to create any more than that currently. Cause I want to see if it's, I want to make it an option for them. I actually don't want them to choose it. I want them to choose to come in, uh, after I've, so this is after I've seen them. I want them to choose the, the best care, which is for me is hands-on.

I'm okay with the video, but it's meeting them where they're at. If that makes sense. Yep. So just choices in there. Yeah. It's a great option for both. And, and also what's really cool is I've had some people, um, that are like in the area on vacation and they've stopped in and seen me, seen me in person. And then I just do the virtual follow-ups. So they'll come in for the first one. Like I had this nurse that came in to see me from New York and I saw him in person for the first one. And then we just did a video follow-up and then I just wrote him a program, um, with some videos that I had already made and kind of laid out the guidance for him.

But we did, we did virtual follow-ups. So yeah, I mean, you could either, you could give them just a video guide or something if that's what they wanted instead. Or, um, for me, it's like, because I already have kind of this system set up, I can do video equipments with people all over. Yeah. So I'll just, I'll just start, I'll start looking at that a little bit because I know that like, so I have a friend that just came in the other day that he, uh, he's, he actually, he started, uh, he started texting me about three months ago talking about his knee. And so he'd seen like, he's not too far. He's out in San Diego, but it's far enough, you know?

And so he's like, he's like, yeah, what exercise do I do? I'm like, dude, honestly, I want to look at you. Like, I want to give you the best chance to recover. I want to look at you. And, uh, he described it and stuff. He's also in the medical field. And I'm like, dude, just, just come once, just please come once and let me look at it. So he shows up the other day and after he'd done a bunch of, uh, he'd, he'd been doing it, doing a bunch of other interventions and has not been working. And so we were texting this morning. He's like, dude, I don't know what you did. It feels so much better. It used to hurt walking.

He wants to run more. Um, but it hurts. It doesn't hurt to walk anymore. All we did was glute stuff, single leg stance stuff. Um, and previously he was actually loading the side of complaint. And so I would not have guessed it unless looking at him, but I feel comfortable at this point, even with him, I could manage him virtually for a little while until maybe his condition changes. But for me, that first interaction is like, I want to, I want to test a couple of things in combination with looking at the movement. But I certainly think those follow-ups via video are like very valuable, you know, cause you have, especially if close to the initial, um, intervention.

Yep. Absolutely. I've had, I've had some people, a similar scenario, maybe not from an entirely different state, but I've had, I've had this one individual from Orlando, which is about two hours away from where I'm at. He drove in for the initial, he drove in for another follow-up. And then after that, he's like, okay, I know that you can help me. I know that, you know, cause when I see people in person, I still don't even really touch them. It's all just coaching. I don't either. Yeah. So it's like, I tell people that I go, if you had drawn a clear wall between us for this entire visit, it wouldn't have changed anything.

Like I haven't done anything. So, um, actual contact wise, I mean, so for him, he's like, Hey, like, I love, I love coming in to see you, but it's like a two hour drive. And I was like, okay, let's just do virtual follow-ups. He's like, perfect. So now we're just scheduling virtual follow-ups and I'm, and I'm helping him over in Orlando. So I think a lot of people could utilize that opportunity to continue helping people that maybe are in town on vacation or, or are far away that find it difficult to get in. Well, if you know that you want to see them once a week, you might have to throw in some virtual follow-ups there.

And guess what? Telemedicine is where it's going to be at in the next three years. I guarantee in the next three years, telemedicine is going to be huge. You know, I think it's, uh, I think it was starting next year. There's actually a telemedicine CPT code. Oh my gosh. There, there you go. Give it three years and there will literally be clinics that are advertised on TV that don't even see you in person. And they only see you virtually. I guarantee you. Well, I mean, that's how, okay. Weed dispensaries were like that. Medical weed dispensaries did. They, like, I think from what I heard, they just, people like there was just a computer in the room in some clinics.

Oh wow. I mean, they were doing stuff like that. So anyways, I think that was good with the information then. I have enough to cover two episodes. Thanks Grant. You're welcome. You can, you can buy me a tomahawk later. Oh God, if I could find them, I will. All right. Yeah. You're struggling now. Costco isn't hooking you up, are they? Well, so around holidays, I should probably, one of the rants I have was, uh, uh, for the beginning of the podcast, it was actually about this incident. I went to, I went to go try to get one the other day and one of the Costco's, they didn't have it. Went to the other Costco, didn't have it.

And I recalled, it was about a year or so ago around this time. I went to like four freaking places to look for one and I couldn't find shit. The only one I could find was a dry aged one, which was 50 bucks a pound. And I'm like, I can't, I can't do that. So I think it's around holidays. So that's probably life. Yeah. There you go. All right. Well, thank you again. Thank you, man. All right. Appreciate it. Nice. Thanks Grant for coming on for that second part. I think that was really useful. It was a lot of information. I'm not going to lie. I was starting to explode there at the end and thinking that, damn, I wish Grant would just set this up for me.

I don't want to do this right now. I know it's not that hard, but it's going to take me probably a day to do it. And I know you're a damn hustler. Everybody notice how much of a hustler Grant is in a good way. All right. Very motivated, young guy, kind of looks like Riley Cooper. I kept looking at him thinking, who do you look like? Riley Cooper. I'm going with Riley Cooper. So everybody follow Grant at Rehab Fix on Instagram. Also, too, I was thinking about it. We did have that meeting, the movement meeting at Sandy's and Huntington Beach. I'm open to doing that again. Does anyone else want to do it?

Message me. I hope all y'all follow me on Instagram. That is at performancehb. Just message me and tell me if you're interested in doing it again. I'm open to doing it again. I think it's super chill. I have a great time growing down with people and I'm open to doing it again. So I'm hoping to bring this community live. Being behind the podcast, Mike, is nice and all, but I like to interact with all the listeners. So this is reserved mainly for clinicians, for lay public. I think it's funny. It's probably going to be exactly what the intro is. We're all hanging out at a bar just talking. I don't know if I can open it to lay public yet.

We'll think about it. I'll really think about it because that might turn into a history-taking session. I don't think that's necessarily something that we could do right there when we're having a beer. So this is reserved for clinicians. But please, DCs, PTs, ATCs, CSCS, trainers, MDs, reach out. Hit me up. I want to meet all of you. Let's do this thing. Let's make the movement meeting happen in more frequency. I'll talk to you guys next week. Thanks for being part of the movement.