Personal training strategies for general population lifters

This is session number 79 of the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast. What's your favorite city to visit? Welcome to the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast, where you can learn about sports injury theory, rehab, diagnosis, and how to understand the doctor lingo you didn't understand at your appointment. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey, everyone. Welcome back. It's Sebastian Gonzales, your host. I think my favorite city is, actually, there's a place that, if you're driving up the coast, Central California, there's a small little town called Cayucos. And it's, most people have heard about Morro Bay. But Cayucos, you get in there, it's a nice, quiet little town. It's got one main street, really.

The pier, for years, actually, it was closed down, and they're remodeling it. And I think that the, it's not the Elks, it's the Lions Club. I think that's the best property I've ever seen in my life. Like, they're right at the base of the pier. They have this area, it looks like it's just prime, just to, like, spit roast about four pigs. And it's right there by the beach. So, it's really cool. Like, I really like the surrounding area there. People are really nice. And, yeah, I like Central Coast. And if you've heard me talk about it before, I just like the Central Coast. But I did have a really good experience in Nashville recently. So, I can't believe the lack of bands that are in at least my area, or at least people that are willing to play with in breweries and bars and stuff like that, because that was killer.

Every single story in a bar in Nashville on Broadway had an awesome band. So, I would definitely go back there again. But two definitely different, very different feels. But I would say they're two cities that I like for different reasons. So, yeah. So, today we're going to go into, we're going to have an interview. And it is going to be on the topic of personal training strategies. Now, personal training strategies, I think it's an interesting topic, or I guess training strategies, because there's so many different types. So, I thought I'd bring on an expert. This is Stefan Kozel. He's from Kilo Strength Society, which is right in Huntington Beach.

It's actually a couple blocks just away from my office here. And I thought that he would have a really good insight based upon all of the people who had said that he's an absolute badass when it comes to strength conditioning or at least exercise theory. So, he has an interesting story. As you'll hear, he's trained professional level athletes. He worked with Paul Quinn. And he has a lot of really great knowledge. But he has kind of, he left from the East Coast, actually. And they started a gym over here on the West Coast. And it was about, I think it's about a year or so now. And he just picked up and thought, you know what, Huntington Beach looks pretty good. Let's do it.

And then he changed his population set to people just like, I think, me. We would consider general population. So, I don't need all the same kind of stuff as a professional athlete would. Although, it'd be cool to think that I would, but I don't. So, training general population is a little bit different than training professional athletes. So, he actually took a little bit of a setback with that. Now, I'm not going to say from a clout level, but just knowing that you're training a different population set. And it's a whole new world. So, he's going to bring some tips and tricks in today and some of the things he's excited about.

Now, the reason you should continue listening to this or share this, by the way, because I do make these intended to share with people that I know that have this exact same topic they need to hear about. So, if you have a friend or a client or a patient who has been talking about, well, what type of personal training is best for me, this is going to be a great podcast for it. So, it's that conversation you really don't have to have quite as much, or at least it's more in depth and they can listen to it anywhere. So, if you are in the sports medicine practice, keep in mind, I want you to go on and look at the modern sports medicine patient education that I'm trying to put together here.

This podcast is only one part. So, we have visual, we have auditory, and we have kinesthetic. Kinesthetic, obviously, you have to do the work with them, but the eyes and ears have a play in this. So, educating patients, I really think, is an important part of what we do to make sure that we're getting away from all the terrible information that is floating out there and bring to rise all the good stuff that is there. So, if you want to see other parts of that informational packet that I have, go into p2sportscare.com slash shop, and you'll see a bunch of posters there, which I personally use daily in my clinic.

So, I think they'll help you guys out as well. By the way, if you've been trying to share these, or you're actually, if you're trying to go on a review, I didn't talk about the reviews in a little while here. So, we're doing a monthly drawing here, and I have a really sick, sick, like sick in the way good, soft shirt that I wear all the time. So, it's a Performance Place shirt. It's royal blue, just like my high school color, and it's the softest thing you've ever had in the world. So, what I want you to do to be in the drawing for this, just go into iTunes, review it, give me, hopefully, a four or five star, but if you have to give me less, you're going to be in it still.

Email that screenshot to me at info at p2sportscare.com, and I'll put you in the monthly drawing. So, obviously, it ends at the month that the podcast is, I guess, if this is going to air in like March, I think March, then obviously, yeah. So, do it. Do it. I take, I'm very appreciative of any of the reviews that you guys do. So, lastly, before we actually go into it, I want to express my gratitude again that you guys are actually spending an hour listening to me. I'm hoping to give them some good advice and guidance out there because, I mean, these are the things I want to share with my friends and family, and these are the topics they need to hear about, just like I probably need to hear about how to do my taxes.

I just have no idea how to do it. So, without any further ado, let's have on Stefan from Kilo Strength Society. Okay, everyone, as promised, here is the interview with Stefan Cazzo. What's going on? I'm good. How are you, Sebastian? Doing great. Thanks for coming to the studio. I don't have a lot of people actually come in here. We do a lot of Skype and phone. Yeah, no, it's a pleasure. Like, my gym is not even five minutes away, so. Yeah, right. Easy enough. So, you guys started that less than a year ago, right? Yeah, exactly. So, January 9th, 2017, that's when we opened a facility here in Nottington Beach.

So, tell everyone about it, actually, because I know that you guys just picked up and left from Rhode Island, just came out here and just wanted to start a gym, right? I mean, that's interesting in all itself. Yeah, so, we're three partners, and we've all met at Copolican Group, which is a company that they do education for personal trainers and strength coaches, as well as supplements. And after working there for four years, I was a director of education there, we just thought it was a time to do our own thing. And growing up in Montreal, like, I moved to the U.S. in 2005, lived in St. Louis, Missouri, moved to Rhode Island.

Then at that point, for the first time in my life, I could actually decide exactly where I wanted to go. And I always wanted to live in California, so we're just like, let's do it. So, we moved here, booked an Airbnb for a month to kind of, like, scope the area, because none of us is from here. We didn't know anything, to be honest. So, after a month of driving around and scoping the area, we kind of fell in love with Nottington Beach, and we're like, okay, let's do it here. So, that's how it started. It's a good spot. I mean, you're right up there by the freeway and everything, like... Yeah, like, right by 4.05, two minutes away.

It's a decent amount of population, so, I mean, it was perfect. Yeah, I always said, if you can't make it here, if you can't find people here to work with you, then you won't find them anywhere. Yeah, no, I would agree. Sure. Well, so, then, today I want to have you on because I like to create these podcasts as a good reference point for either other docs, as well as trainers, to use as a tool to educate their clients. And I know that with training, there's a lot of misunderstanding from first-time clients or even people who aren't professional athletes. They just don't understand the reason why we're doing what we're doing or what you're programming.

So, I see that your setup at Kilo is definitely different than most gyms or a lot of gyms. Can you explain why you... Because you're working with general population right now, right? Yeah. Can you explain why you guys had it set up like that and what are your overall goals for general population people? Yeah. So, I mean, I've been a coach now for 20 years. So, I started, like most of us, I started in a commercial gym with general population and then it evolved. Like, I mostly trained professional athletes in MLB, NFL, and NHL. And after 10 years of doing this, now what I realized is I wanted to take that concept of training that I use with athletes and trying to create a system for general population that would integrate some of these more athletic training modalities into an actual periodized program.

But the thing is, I really wanted to move away from one-on-one and I wanted to focus on group training for many different reasons. I mean, it's more time efficient for me. But I also find that nowadays, the kind of camaraderie that you see in a group is very attractive for a lot of people and it's also more affordable. But the thing is, most of the group training facility you see, not just here but all over the world actually, it's mostly like boot camp based. It's kind of like not a lot of equipment, high rep, short rest period, quick reps, just like sweat and all that kind of stuff, which is fine.

But it's not very specific. And the way I see training is, first and foremost, I believe in strength. One of my favorite exercise physiologists is Dietmar Schmidt-Bleecker from Germany. And one of his quote that I really like is, strength is the mother of all quality. So if you improve strength, then it will dramatically improve all other qualities. So that's the focus with our group training. It's called Primate. It's strength-based in a group setup. It's structured, periodized. There's like a specific set, rep scheme, tempo, prescription, rest period. And it's, there's, like we've built two years worth of progressions for the general pup.

So when you say, when you say periodized, what does that mean? Yeah, so, like, so the goal of training is to always progress. So there's, there's different types of progression or periodization. Periodization basically means planning. But you can go linear, which is the more you train, the more weight you put on the bar, the lower the reps. So it's very linear as you're progressing towards higher intensities. But the problem with that is the closer you get to the higher intensities, now it's been a while that you haven't touched, like, lower intensities. So what happens is you're detraining some of the qualities that you built with higher reps because you haven't done them in a while.

So the periodization that we use is undulating, which means that we do a block of higher reps, lower intensities. So by undulating the intensities like that, not only is it better because you're deloading the joint after a heavy phase, but it allows you to not lose qualities you've trained before as you're moving towards your end goal. Okay. So when it comes to, uh, I know I heard you talk on the, uh, the unknown strength podcast earlier, they were talking about, um, you're talking about how loading a punch would make an athlete actually slower with punching. Um, or at least the other, maybe the other guy was, well, you guys were discussing it.

Um, so when you're talking about the qualities that you have at higher reps versus higher weight, then how does this equate with, um, I understand what the punching then how about with a normal soccer mom? Yeah. Um, so I mean, the thing is it depends if you're just training for health, to be honest, um, you, as far as velocities or speed of movement is concerned for training, uh, you, you're better off going with a controlled, um, speed of movement, which we refer, we refer to as tempo. So for example, you might, let's say you're doing a curl, you might lower the weight in four seconds and come back up in one second.

So each rep takes five seconds. This is probably the safest and most, um, most bang for your buck way of training in terms of you're getting a strength response. You're avoiding any type of, um, um, um, injuries that could be caused by ballistic or quick training, but the thing is, uh, doing high load or lighter load with high velocities or slow velocities, uh, as you're moving away from athletic training, it doesn't have as much impact. So with, uh, that population, I would favor just more controlled movement. Okay. Yeah. I was, I always, um, I always think that with, uh, like in here we have some people that have like the joints sound like they're grinding because they have arthritic conditions and whether that's their pain generator is a whole different story.

But the, um, there was concern about, well, am I going to wear this joint out? And I'm like, well, why don't we just do high time intertention, slow rep, do it five times. You only did five reps. How many times, how many, how much could you really wear this joint out? Um, but I watched the video that you did earlier, uh, earlier it was on contrast training and it looked like that was the same mentality you're talking about, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah. So I think you're completely right. You know, like if you have, um, you know, like you have people complaining about the stress of weight training on their joints, but then again, they go and they weigh like 230 pounds.

They're overweight and they go jog two miles, five hours, uh, five times a week. Well, that's a lot more stress on your joints than doing two upper body workouts a week of five sets of eight, let's say, you know, that, so it's kind of, it's interesting that way. But I will say though, like, aside from, uh, like conditions like arthritis and things like that, one thing I've noticed now with people who tends to have like, you know, like joint issue, if you're, as you're training, you try to be a little stiffer. And by stiffer, what I means is, you know, a lot of people, they will hold the weight like kind of like softly, but if you grasp the weight hard and you use all of your strength to stabilize the weight and create, create more joint centration because there's no energy leak.

Well, you'll gain stability as you're doing the movement and in some cases, you know, you might not, um, feel as much pain in the elbow, for example, when you're doing your movement. So, you know, there's little things like that that you can, like as a coach, you can cue a general population client with their training. So then with people that like, so since now you're working with more general population and I know that before we, before we started, we spoke about like your past history of working with higher level professionals. Um, how many people, what percentage of people do you think actually that come in that move really well enough to where you want to load them on a bar, like say on a, on a back squat immediately first day?

Does this happen a lot or is it less common? Yeah, well, it, I would say it's, it's half and half, right? Because like, uh, as far as general population goes and the market that we're, we're, uh, catering to, we have a lot of, um, active, like, you know, like late twenties, younger thirties that have a training background. So for them, it's not as much as much of an issue, but, um, at the same time, we do have some people that honestly, they, they can barely squat. With just our body weight. So, uh, for these people, I think that to load too early is a mistake, you know, like, I'm not saying you can't, you cannot do the movement pattern, but you have to make sure that you understand how to do the movement.

Um, you know, with coaching, you can also find cues and ways to help them get through a movement. So like, for example, squat, um, in my industry, a lot of coaches, they want all of their clients to do a full squat, like full range of the motion squat right away. And then if they can't, they get disappointed and they move away from it. Well, what I say is if your goal is to have your client squat, and that's great because it's a primary movement pattern, but why not? So let's say your client can only squat like half with proper form. Why not? What's the problem with that? Have him squat halfway.

At least he's doing something. He's kind of rehearsing somewhat of a pattern. And then after that, then you can regress the movement and do more like simpler stuff like split squat and stuff like that. So there's no, there's nothing wrong with not doing a full range of motion squat. If you can't do it, the goal is you work towards that goal with that client. Yeah, I totally agree. Like there's, like I have people that come in here too, that we can only do a portion of a squat well, but I always tell them, I'm like, it's not the depth, it's the path. I care about your path. And it's not always, I don't always want the load because if form degrades, I don't, we don't want the load.

Um, but then they say, like there was a guy that came in recently that he's, he was talking about his knee and he squatted down fully. And he's like, well, I, this is how I check under like a tire. I want to be able to check a tire. And I'm like, well, perhaps your body doesn't like squatting that depth. Can we lunge? And he's like, well, I want to squat. I'm like, why? Maybe that's the wrong choice for you to do, to do that task. But the reason I bring it up is because I think you're right with like the, some, some of the industry standards is we, we need to squat below parallel. But not everyone's capable.

So why force them to do it? Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But I still feel that like at the end of the day, like if there's not any type of, um, like crazy restriction, like at one point, everybody can get there, but it's, it's a process. Like, and it's not, it's like trying to not skip steps towards it. And, um, you know, and a lot of time it's technique, it's people not, not understanding their, their own, um, anatomy. Right. So some people like they, they want to squat super narrow. That's how they always did it. They think that's the way to do it. But then you realize that because of their hips, um, they're better off going wider.

And then you tell them to go wider. And then all of a sudden they can increase their range of motion, like four or five inches without any issues. And they're surprised about it. So, so that's, that's, let's go down that path. I think, cause that's, that's something I don't think a lot of people do understand. Um, tell me about squat position, how you find proper width foot position and what people typically have questions on with that when you do it through that process. Yeah. Uh, so I, the whole squat thing, like in, in the world of training, there's kind of always that debate between like the powerlifting style squat, which is the low bar squat, which is more of a hip hinge.

And you make sure that the, um, the knees don't go past the toes. And then on the flip side, you have the Olympic style squat, which is high bar, which is a torso more upright, the elbows under the barbell, the knees going past the toes. And there's always that debate, um, on a functionality standpoint for performance, you have a lot more bang for your buck with the Olympic style squat simply because it, it forces more mobility. But here's, so that's the thing is genetically you can have long femur, short femur. So a long, a long femur by default, biomechanically speaking, you won't be able, it's going to be really, really, really hard to squat with a very upright torso.

Because at the end of the day, when you're squatting, you need the barbell to have a bar path that's right above the middle of your foot. So if you have a long femur, you're going to have to lean forward more in order to have the barbell over the foot. So one way you can kind of counteract that a little bit is by using a wider stance. Um, but then on top of the length of the femur, you also have the anatomy of the hip. So if you have a, um, shallow hip structure, well, then it might just means that you need to open up the femur a little bit wider to clear space to squat properly. Unlike other people, they can squat narrow and there's no restriction of the hip.

So it's, uh, like I use a test that I learned from Stuart McGill with new clients, which is the hip scour test where you lie the client on your back and you bend his knee 90 degrees on one leg. And you just push the femur around the hip socket to try to determine, um, which femur position in relation to the hip offers the more, the most range of motion without too much pelvis rotation. So that's a good kind of like easy guide. But then once the person stands up and starts squatting, you still have to, uh, address the length of the femur situation to see how you can readjust the body to improve a bar path.

Um, but it's, it's mostly like queuing and coaching. I'm sure. Yeah. You probably get, you take them through like a 10 minute process, 30 minute process to figure that out. Right. Yeah. Something like, yeah, it's, it's fairly quick, but, um, cause yeah, cause once you know about their hip anatomy, you know, then it's just some little fine tuning. So, so with that being said, then, since you're, you're kind of catering the, the stance to each individual person, um, which, how do you feel about, uh, anterior front side hip pain with squatting? Is that, does that minimize that? Is there still some, is there cues to take that away?

In my experience, for the most part, when that happens, it's just because it's bad, uh, stance. It's a bad choice of stance and they just, there's too many, many restrictions because of the femur kind of like, uh, like pushing onto the, um, the, um, the pelvis, which makes it rotate. They, so I, I don't know, like, I just feel that by adjusting and getting a wider stance, usually it goes away for the most part for me. Okay. Um, so you said something earlier, we were talking about bootcamps a little bit. So there was, um, I'm just thinking about when, when a person's listening to this, they're like, well, I've been doing bootcamp.

What's wrong with bootcamp or they'll say, well, why should I build strength? Is there, is there, is there a certain type of person who would fare better in one or another, or should they do both? Or how do they choose if they're undecided? Well, uh, I don't think bootcamp is a good idea, period. And here's why I'm saying that is most bootcamp, even though they might use weight training exercises, they're almost, um, aerobic in nature because they use lighter weights. They use, they do a ton of fast reps and what happens, there's nothing wrong with that. But the problem with this type of training is the adaptations are very quick to happen.

And because it's huge, large groups, and there's usually a ratio of one to 30, one to 40 of instructor to patients is there's such a lack of, um, coaching that you as a trainee, you end up spending months and months or weeks and weeks training at a same weight, same intensity, then you adapt to it. So now the only way you can keep on progressing is by adding more and more of these bootcamp sessions to your week. But the problem is now you're just compounding more and more, uh, more, uh, damage to the joints without necessarily improving your condition. Now, if you do more of a strength training approach where each movement is more controlled, um, it's more dedicated to, uh, you know, like improving central nervous system efficiency, improving the, uh, activation of more motor units.

Uh, your benefits will, uh, your benefits will, uh, will last for a long time because of the trainability of strength is much higher than the aerobic system. And that's one thing that a lot of general population clients don't understand is like if you're a beginner and especially women in general, because they tend to have a slightly less efficient nervous system in terms of recruiting motor units, which are, um, your muscle fibers. The problem is when you start training, you only recruit about seven to 12% of these motor units. So it's not a lot of muscle mass that's activated during your training.

So what happens is you're doing your set, you're tired, you finish your set 20 seconds after you feel ready to go. You're good. You're normal. Everything is fine. That's because there's so few motor units or muscle fibers engaged that it doesn't take time to recuperate. But the problem is then your, your ceiling in terms of strength or conditioning is very low. But if on the flip side, you do more traditional strength training with compound multi-joint movements and you, you have rest period and you have a deliberate tempo. So what's going to happen is now you're going to teach your nervous system to recruit more of these, uh, more units.

So at one point you're able to recruit 50% of all of your muscle potential. So at that point, a workout that seemed very easy at first will become very challenging just because you're using more of your potential. But it's really hard to get to that point with high rep, fast pace, cardio based type bootcamp. Yeah. And I think you're, I think you hit on something there. And I know that we spoke about periodization earlier. Um, there's a, there's a rest period that's required, right. To almost, I was thinking like, like NBA jam. Like, are you like 35? I'm 40. 40? I've played NBA jam. Yeah. I remember.

So you always hit the turbo button and always had to wait before it, uh, before it powered up again. And my, just my thing with like, um, uh, a lot of like keep, uh, I don't want to say just only bootcamp, but a lot of activity where they just keep going and going and going. There is no recharge of the turbo button, um, which then you can't recruit all you, all the fibers that you want. And you have the possibility of a form to grade, at least comes a little bit quicker. I would rather to them just have the rest period. Um, but so actually I'll get back to my original question. So how many days a week do you actually feel like you need to lift to get strong?

And how many days do you need some rest? Yeah, that's a good question. So for these are general rules, but for somebody who's like starting out, that's never trained before, you will get some, um, strength gains at two, um, two sessions per week. But the problem is at one point that's going to plateau and that varies. It's usually anywhere from three to six, nine months. Then three times a week, most people will get a lot of gains for a long period of time, like anywhere from one to two or three years. But here's the interesting thing is going from three sessions a week to four. So just adding that one more session per week, you will improve results by close to 50%.

So for the most part, I always tell people to try to do four times a week if their schedule allows, just because you have the most benefit from it. A lot of research have shown that the, um, because there's a thing there, there's such a thing as too much exercise as well. Like people who exercise more than seven times a week don't necessarily fare better than people who exercise five hours a week. That seems to be like five hours of exercising per week is a pretty good threshold for most people. So that's what we're striving for. So something like four, four weight training sessions of like 50 minutes and maybe one or two, um, more like energy system, cardiovascular sessions per week.

Um, assuming lifestyle is good, stress is managed, nutrition is good, uh, that that's probably where you're going to get the most benefits. Mm-hmm. So when you said, uh, stress management, then what are some common things, I guess, when people come in there, they, they won't fare as well. Because they're, because they're stressed or is there certain things that you recommend that they modify in life to improve their physical gains? Yeah, I think the problem with stress is that like when you're chronically stressed, like anything becomes a stressor to your body. So, you know, like, uh, work becomes a stressor, pollution, um, but your training can become a stressor as well.

So, uh, if you're chronically stressed, like the most important thing obviously is sleep. Um, if you can get about, like over seven hours of sleep a night, that's a good go-to. But, uh, in terms of lifestyle, I mean, there, you know, some, some people use meditate. That's very personal. Some people do well with meditations. Some it's reading a book. So, like what, like me personally, like when I'm really stressed and I just need to, uh, clear my mind is I, I watch like a TV show or something like that. That's the one thing for me that just calms me down. So whatever it might be, but, um, I mean, and obviously nutrition is important as well.

Um, if you're chronically stressed and, and like you're, you, you eat one or two meals a day and the food choices aren't great and it's sugar-based and coffee and like all you're doing is you're increasing the load on your body to cope with all these stressors. So, yeah, at that point in time, like maybe that six training sessions per week is too much, you know? Yeah. Well, do you ever have to sit down and like just have an intervention with people? Like, look, you just can't, like you don't, whatever you're doing off the side, like you're, you're not, you're not, it's not working out here. Kind of thing like that.

Like they're not making the goals that they set for, but it's for, it's for that reason. Is there any time that you have to have that conversation with them? Yeah. All the time. As an example, we, we had a client that came into our gym in our earlier days and she was doing, so she wanted to train at our gym three times a week. She was doing, she was jogging four times a week. And on top of it, she was doing a bootcamp class four times a week. So a lot of like pounding and high rep type of stuff. And, but she was broken. Her entire body was broken, her knees, her shoulder. But it's interesting because she would come into our class.

We would do three sets of 10 of the shoulder exercise and she felt her shoulder. Now for the first time, she actually felt muscles or something, but see, in her mind, she wanted to stop the training, the weight training, because she thought that that was the cause of her shoulder pain. And she didn't realize that she didn't realize that it was the 400 reps of snatch jerk that she did in the bootcamp that day that might have caused instability on the shoulder. So it's just a question of seeing them, educating them, which is sometimes it's, it's hard because you have like, you know, like, like there's so many myths in the fitness industry.

You read, you read a magazine, something you read something else somewhere else on TV, on ads. So it's very hard sometimes to, to convince or to explain to someone that to cut down on training might be a good thing for them, especially when they want to lose body fat. That's always the thing they want to lose body fat. So they want to, they want to eat 600 calories a day and train two hours a day, even though they're still 38% body fat. They think that that's how they're going to get leaner. Yeah. Well, you can use this podcast now is the next time you want to have the intervention, just send them this one that you already told the story.

That's so fun. That is, that is kind of funny that like people, um, they'll, they'll, they'll blame, I think, weight training really quickly for their, their things. And I'm sure you've heard a lot of like, Hey, I got hurt in high school, uh, squatting and football and never do it again. It's like, well, perhaps it was the terrible posture you're sitting in, in school too. Perhaps it was all the football you did. It could have been a ton of things. Why did it have to be the squatting? Um, and for shoulder stuff, like I have a good friend recently that we've been talking about a shoulder for, I don't know how long.

And, and finally I just sat him down and said, look, dude, I don't, I don't want to hear about it anymore unless you're going to do something about it. We just made a quick sleeping suggestion. And we anti shrugged the Stuart McGill style. And he's like, Holy shit, that helps a lot. Okay, good. Let's do that. And then we can load it later. You know, like you can't even hold position. Well, you can't hold posture, you know? So, but he would blame it on snatching. Yeah. So I don't think you should be snatching anyways. Well, I mean, yeah. Like the thing, like that's, that's such an advanced lift.

So like, if you don't have the stability for it and the technique for it, yeah. Yeah. I don't think like me, I don't like, even with pro athletes, I rarely ever did snatches because it's like Olympic weightlifting is a sport. Like people, like they've, like, like Dmitry Klokov now is really popular. He started lifting when he was five years old. His entire life, he's done it. So the technique is like nailed. He has the stability for it, but most people don't. So it's a very stressful exercise if you're unstable, but I mean, your example, your example is you're right. Like when people say they blame my weight training, but the problem is weight, it's not weight training per se.

The problem is how you do the weight training exercise. And a lot of people, and especially guys with our ego, we think we know how to lift. We don't need any coaching, nothing like that. But the problem is you take an exercise as simple as bench breaths. It's very simplistic when you look at it. You lie on a bench, grab a barbell, bring it down to your chest, push it away from your chest. Simple. But the problem is if, if you don't understand that you need to activate the lats to stabilize the glenolumeral joint, you need to not flare the elbows out too much. You need to squeeze the barbell. You need to drive with your feet into the ground to create even more stability.

You need to brace the abdominal wall so that your spine, hips, and shoulders are stable. If you don't get that and don't train that, then yes, over time, if you overload the bench, it can be an issue. But is it the bench or is it just the bad execution of the bench? Yeah, I agree with, I know I've told people with deadlifting, I don't teach bench a lot, so I don't have a mentality going up to it. But I always say just, you know, have steps in your head, you know, whatever cues that work for them. You know, like drill your feet into the ground, white knuckle the bar, whatever the heck it is. I feel like they should have a strategy, not just willy-nilly like, you know, just talking to their friend and just, you know, all of a sudden just blow the weight out.

But I don't feel like a lot of people don't have that. They don't set their tension properly and then they disrespect the weight, you know. Yeah, and that's how they get injured too. So like a lot of people, so they shy away from these more complex compound exercises and they might just get a membership at the local gym and just start doing a bunch of machine because it's a perception of a safer equipment. Which is true because you're just doing like supported, one-joint, fixed machine, so it's very simplistic, so you're loading your muscle through a fixed joint. But the problem I have with that is then when real life happens and you play with your kid or whatever it might be, now you're not in a fixed machine, in a fixed position, with a fixed movement pattern.

You have to learn to integrate all your muscles together in order to pick up your kid or something like that. So a lot of people will injure themselves because they lose the ability to have intermuscular coordination. And I think that movements like deadlift or squats or even bench press, they're important for that specific reason. Like outside of athletic performance, just to keep your mind active, I think they're like very important lifts. Yeah. The, it's, I saw that you guys have sleds there too, right? Yes. Yeah. Um, so I know that we were talking about bench a little bit. Do you, do you typically, do you use more bench there or do you use more pushing as in sleds or actually there were wheels on it, didn't they?

Well, we have two types of sled. We have one like regular sled and then we had one with wheels that has a magnetic resistant engine on it. So it's pretty clever because the more force and velocity you put into the machine, the more those wheels resists. Huh. So it's a pretty clever tool. Yeah. Right. I've never seen anything like that. Yeah. Uh, no, I mean, we, I, we do use bench a lot. Um, so like the, the, the premise of primate or group training, uh, classes, it's based off of the eight primary lifts that I use mostly with my athletes, which was the overhead press, the incline press, the bench press, the dip, the squat, the front squat, and the deadlift.

And also the chin up, but the common denominator with most of these lifts is they're all extensors aside from the chin up, they're all extensors and in performance, most sporting performance are dictated by your extensors. They're by nature, more fast, which more powerful. So they're very important. And when you do a team sport, like let's say hockey or American football or anything like that, the thing is you have to be, when it comes to upper body extensors, you have to be strong amongst every angle because strength is, if you only bench, if all you do is like, um, uh, horizontal press all the time.

The thing is that angle will become very strong, but the other angle won't. For example, I was training alignment for the Cleveland Browns years ago. And when I evaluated him, he had a bench press of 435 pounds, but believe it or not, his overhead press was only 90 pounds. Really? That's a crazy discrepancy of strength, but see his, his, his shoulders, it was always injured. It was always hurt. So to me, it's important to be strong, but throughout the entire range of angles, it's, it's like, it's 180 degree that you have to train. So that's why we do a lot of presses, but we make sure that we avoid pattern overload syndrome because we have this clever rotation of angles through a period of time.

So you're, we're, you're never going to see one of our athletes or client have a ratio of like 85% flat benched after a year of training. It's just, it won't happen. So when you, when you go through goals with people, then do they, when they come into like, well, I want to be able to bench 200 pounds. Do you just say, we're not going to do that. You got to bench 200 pounds plus overhead press X, Y, and Z. And here's, here's how a well-rounded person should be. Or they just, you just kind of trick them into it. Well, we kind of trick them into it in the sense that it is group training, right? So it's, it's one product.

It's not a individualized training program. So when they come, they know that it's a, you come here to gain strength, gain muscle mass, lose some body fat, but it's a strength-based program. You want to, we want our guys to be strong overall. But the thing is, what's interesting is we like, we use strength ratios. So for example, for upper body extensors, like your, the bench press is the mother lift. So like whatever, so let's say you bench 100 pounds. That's your one rep max or your predicted one rep max, whatever it might be, 100 pounds. Then we know that in order to have proper muscular balance, your overhead press should be 72% of your bench press.

So you bench 100, your overhead press should be 72. Now, if I test you and the majority of the clients that I work with, when, when they start, they have about 62% overhead press strength. Well, okay. I know that then we might favor a little bit more the overhead pattern, assuming they don't have any restriction because they're the weakest link. So for us, like for me, as when it comes to performance or health, you're only as strong as your weakest link. So that's why we, we look at these strength ratios and try to focus on what's the weakest. So, no, I like that approach a lot, um, actually. And, um, I kind of liked you just, you kind of trick them into a little bit.

I, there, I'm sure later on you guys get into the, the overall reasoning why, because they're going to wonder why they're training differently. Um, um, I remember what I was going to ask earlier was that you said that, um, the, the primal lifts that you guys use. And I know that you've had past experience working with professionals. How many professionals do the style you're talking about now? And how many professionals do like only bicep curls, you know, like single joint or, or only machines? I think it's changing slowly, uh, towards more like very specialized, um, smarter strength and conditioning, but it's still, I would say the majority of are still all over the place.

Um, I was explaining in a, in a other podcast that one problem that I see in the Western world, like mostly like I'm from Canada, but I find it in the U S it's kind of like the same way is there are so many philosophies and kids like athletes. They might start in high school weightlifting, let's say for football, but for some reason, their weightlifting coach is a fan of functional training. So the kid, all he does is, um, pulley on Bosu balls and stability and coordination. Then he goes on to, to college. And then whatever college he's at, the strength coach, he's a fan of bodybuilding and their football team, they do like machines and bodybuilding training, which you still see.

And then he moves on to, let's say the NFL. And now their strength coach is into Olympic weightlifting. So now they're doing snatches and clean. But the problem is that entire, that kid who's been through like 10 years of training to become a pro athlete. There's never been any continuity. It's all over the place. So yes, they, they become great at playing football this, in spite of their training, you know, there's 330 million in the U S you know, you're going to find a guy that's going to be good at football, right? Some that have good genetics, some that are going to respond well to training, but unlike, uh, countries where their training is like standardized through kind of like a government body.

Where they've been kind of doing the same mentality or philosophy for that 10 year period. Well, they're going to, in terms of strength and conditioning, they're going to reach a much higher ceiling because it's been a dedicated unified training system instead of a bunch of everything. But to get back to your questions, that's the problem in the pros, because I've met a few strength coaches for certain teams. It's all over the place. There's no like unity amongst, uh, professional strength coaches. Hmm. So it's so interesting because there, I feel like at this point we should be pretty unified, at least on some ideas, you know, um, the, so then what do you suggest then with, say someone has like a 10 year old kid who the kid wants to play, you know, in the MLB or something like that?

Uh, what do you think they should be learning now that would actually have application no matter what coach they encountered? Cause it's going to happen anyways, right? Yeah. I mean, one of the best guys for childhood development in terms of, uh, performance is, his name is East Van Bali and he's, um, Hungarian originally from Hungary, but he's the head. Now he's the head of the Canadian Olympic, um, training system and him is, his specialty is childhood development. And one thing that's very important is until you hit puberty. So 10, most people didn't hit puberty yet training. It's not really, you don't want training like you're, you want to play.

So the best thing for a 10 year old is to do a bunch of different sports. Uh, it's like individual sports, team sports, sports that uses their feet, like soccer sports that uses their hands, basketball, let's say you just want to create the widest, the broadest range of stimulus for that person. And that's, that's, that's when they actually get to learn coordination and stability and stuff like that. Once you hit puberty after that, then you can start introducing weight training. Uh, like when I was growing up, Olympic weightlifting didn't really exist in, in Montreal. Like it was a kind of like this, nobody did that, you know, but looking back, I wish that at 12, cause I started lifting at, 11, I wish that at that time I would have started with Olympic weightlifting.

And the reason is, is because of the technical component of it and the mobility that you get from it. Like I started training, reading Arnold Schwarzenegger encyclopedia of bodybuilding. So it was not necessarily the best in terms of functionality. It was motivating though, wasn't it? Oh yeah. Like you would do like the workout in the book. It was like a three hour workout, but, um, yes. And that, so that, so it's funny too, because once, once you've passed puberty, like that coordination and stability, the trainability is only five, 7%. So it's always funny to me when I see, um, coaches train a bunch of 18 year old kids doing the speed ladder and stability drills and all that stuff.

And they spend hours doing that within the training week when the trainability is nothing. And like, unless you get injured, you get a traumatic injury and want to get back, you're not going to get much of this type of training. And yeah, well, I think that, I think part of the issue too, is that I spoke with another guy about this on a podcast is that the, the early specialization of these kids. And I think some people consider their kids as like a commodity who's going to get free college or, you know, go playing the pros and they, they have them doing these clubs all the time. I mean, shit, I remember when I was playing high school ball or even earlier than that, the summer was optional.

It wasn't like you had to keep going and we had the option to play soccer or baseball or just mess around and play at the beach. You know, I don't think the kids get that as much anymore. No, you're right. I, I, I trained when I was in St. Louis, I trained a kid, 17 year old who just had a Tommy John. Yeah. Cause it was a pitcher. Like what? 17 years old. So I'm curious, did he, did he have any, how did he, how did he feel about that? Was he, cause I've, I've seen some that are proud of that at that age. I mean, now like we're talking about 2008. Yeah. Now he plays for the Minnesota twins. So I think he, he's happy about it because it ended up working out.

But I think like, it's like, like you said, like the parents, like scholarship, that's the one big difference I would say though, like here in the U S compared to, cause I have clients from all over the world and you know, like countries like Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, like school is basically free. Like I did, I did my bachelor's degree and like a one semester of school was like $800. God, that's so great. So, so for, for us, like the government, they don't put much money into sports. It's not, it's not, you know, it's not really important. So, and it's not important to go to school, to be good at sports.

So there's not that incentive, but here, when you know that if my, my kid, if he can go to Yale and get a scholarship because he's good at lacrosse, well, I'm going to hire lacrosse coach over the weekend. He's going to play lacrosse during the off season. He's going to be the best lacrosse, blah, blah, blah, because they see it as their hope to get to college. So it's a very different mentality. But like you said, the problem is now you get kids that are not even 20 and they're not going to make it because they're too broken down. Yeah. Some are lucky. Some are freaks. Like that picture I was telling you about, he's six foot nine.

Yeah. Um, you know, he had the whip to throw a ball and all that stuff. But what if that kid was five foot nine and the parent would have pushed him like he, he wouldn't be a pro. Yeah, I agree. And, and I know, I don't know what your experience was growing up, but like mine, I, I mean, we had kids get injured, but it was because of trauma. It wasn't just out of nowhere. Yeah. Do you guys didn't have that either? No. Like, like I, I never, I never got injured. Like I, I played running back in college and the only injury I had was like a sprained ankle once. Yeah. And that's totally, totally trauma.

So it's like, and just in case people are wondering on the other end, like, so there's, there's, there's traumatic and there's non-traumatic. Non-traumatic is, I'd say a strong majority of what people complain about and probably the ones that you see and I see. And it's just, I mean, there's a rare instance for someone like I was walking a dog and I fell and, you know, landed on my arm. That would be trauma. So since we're on the, on, on the topic of injuries, do people get injured from, I guess we did on this a little bit, but in your experience, is there ways to decrease potential of injury while lifting weights?

Cause I know that's probably a big fear for people. Like, I don't want to get hurt. Why should I start? Yeah. I mean, like the first thing is programming and that's, I'm a little biased because that's what I'm known for. That's my specialty. So you have to make sure that the training program makes sense, that the training program is well balanced. And the biggest problem with a lot of trainers or coaches is they write, they write a workout, but you're never just writing a workout. You're writing a training program. So how the entire training week, how does every exercises, sets and reps and tempo and rest period in that training week work together to make sure that everything works in harmony to kind of avoid injuries.

Then there's technique. That's extremely important. So it's the one thing I always tell coaches because now in the internet age, everybody wants to be an internet coach or Instagram start selling programs for five bucks to a billion people. That's great. But at the end of the day, a coach, you're a coach is how can I, you can't move right now. You can't do a squat right now. How can I help you get there quickly? But that's all coaching. It's nothing to do with the paper. And then also like something that I think it's, uh, it's starting to get people's attention, but it's often under the radar when it comes to these type of, uh, non-trauma type injuries.

I think nutrition plays a big role too, because now today's like the big difference with today's world and me growing up, growing up, I barely ever ate in a restaurant. Now, almost everyone eats all of their meals out. Either it's that whole foods, like a salad bar or it's always takeout. But the problem is you're not always eating the healthiest food. Um, you might, you're, they'd never really use super healthy fats. So the problem is your body is chronically inflamed. There's like this chronic inflammation. And if you have that compounded with bad movement patterns, the chronic stress and everything, that's what, that's why you see like, uh, like people's knee gave out because there's so much cortisol, there's so much stress.

The ligaments have no more. Everything is frail. Everything is fragile. I think it's, it's multi-layered. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I don't think we can assume that our, our tissue is going to rebuild themselves if we give them crap to rebuild with, you know? Exactly. So yeah, you're right. I don't, so when you have that conversation with people at the gym, then do you, um, how do you get them to cook for themselves or do you just meal plan them? Yeah, you can't. It's trying to educate that because the lifestyle I've learned or like when I first started in my twenties, I wanted to do everything and I had the most precise nutrition plan, training plan, blah, blah, do this at home.

But at the end of the day, like you can only, I can only control like the four hours a week. I see them. So that's why I put more emphasis now with Gen Pop on the peri-workout nutrition. So a lot of people, especially women, they have a hard time getting an adequate amount of protein in. So, okay, well, we have, we have, um, we have this supplement, um, called the Complete Essentials by BSL that we use intra-workout, which is elect, so there is no artificial sweetener, coloring, or anything like that. Um, it's electrolytes, you know, like a good form of magnesium chelate, potassium citrate, uh, there's citrulline malate, there's acetyl-l-carnitine for the brain, for the mitochondria, there's essential amino acids, and there's branched-changed amino acid, so it's kind of like this broad spectrum, uh, product, so it keeps you hydrated, gives you electrolyte, the essential amino acids trigger protein synthesis, so at least for that one hour, I'm giving them some form of nutrition, right, so I control that, like, you try to educate them, but it's really hard with their, it's hard to change, like, the lifestyle of a 52-year-old guy who's been doing the same thing for 40 years.

I agree. I think there's probably a point in their life, too, where they're a little bit more malleable, you know, like, maybe, I always think the pivotal, the pivotal age is, like, 29 to 30, 39 to 40, like, you might get them to change for the, for the better, but then if they're in the middle and they're just semi-comfortable in life, they're a little bit harder. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's not easy. Well, so if you, if you do the peri-workout nutrition, and you're, and they come in four days a week, you're, you're technically affecting, like, uh, I, I mean, about, probably 25% of, of the day, at least with a meal, unless they snack, then that's a little bit harder.

Yeah. I'll retract that. Yeah, but, but, but at least, you know, you're, because when you're training, if you're training hard, like, you're, you're breaking down your body, right? So you're creating some form of stress. So at least we're kind of mitigating and, and putting your body from a catabolic through an anabolic state at that point. So, you know, we're building there. We're not breaking down at least, you know? Yeah. That's good. Um, I, I have a couple of questions in regards to, we were talking about, uh, fitness myths or common thoughts. And so I wrote a couple down. One is people, I remember people saying this when I was growing up, if you run after you lift, you lose all your gains.

How you like that one lose all your, that's, that's a little far fetch, but, um, I will say though, that, uh, again, I come from a performance background, so it's a little different, but on a performance perspective, there's two things that's going to happen is the brain just has a very finite amount of stuff they can adapt to within a training unit. So if let's say you're doing strength work and you're doing squats for five reps with a very controlled movement pattern. And so it's very anaerobic, helactic, it's fast, uh, it's a low reps. The duration of the set is slow, is short, but then you go right after you go run for distance for like 30 minutes, then you're, you're submitting your body to two different signals, two different systems.

So it makes it very hard to know what to adapt to. So like the progress in the weight room will be diminished. The progress on your running will be diminished. And also there's the fact that after about the 45, 50 minute mark, then there's a shift in cortisol and DHEA ratio. So now you become a little bit more catabolic. So if you're not fueling your body while you're training with some form of a supplement, like amino acids or carbohydrate and stuff like that, then you're going to reach a point. If you go above like 90 minutes where you're actually getting pretty catabolic. So on a performance perspective, I would say, yes, it affects, but if you're a general, general pup and you're training for, um, general health purposes and you have only a select amount of times per week, it can dedicate to training and you want to run for cardiovascular health, then I would say, go ahead, just make sure you supplement yourself because you're still going to have gains.

There just won't be, because that's, that's a problem with these myths with science. Sometimes it's like, for example, there's this research that came up last two years ago. And now a lot of coaches are freaking out about it. That says that the consumption of coffee post-workout increases cortisol. So now a lot of people like, wow, I'm not, I'm never going to drink coffee post-workout now. But the problem is you look at the study, we're talking about minute increase in cortisol. Just totally negligible or it was significant, but not important. It's significant on the study perspective, but in a big picture, it was, it's, it's almost nothing.

So what I tell people is, listen, you're training, you're taking your peri-workout nutrition to blunt anabolism. Now you're catab, now you're, you're becoming anabolic. So what's the big deal if you get a coffee 20 minutes after, like on the big picture, it's like, it's very irrelevant. So I would say that it's kind of like the same thing with that myth. Like if you're, if we're talking about the elite and every like millisecond counts, okay. But if it's general health and you only can afford five, three blocks per week to your training. Just do it. Do it. So, well that, um, well you said a couple of things, I'll just clarify for everybody.

So, so anabolic is buildup, catabolic is breakdown just in case, cause then we threw that around a little bit there. Um, uh, but I think you're right though with the, um, I, I feel like a lot of people, they, they take these, and this doesn't go just for fitness, it goes for a lot of things is they want to squeeze the last little bits out of like their performance when their performance really doesn't matter that much. Like it's, it's more of an end goal is years and years away. Um, I mean, I see that people do this with cycling a lot. Like, you know, they're about 20 pounds overweight, but they'll spend a grand to like drop a couple ounces off their bike.

You know, it's like this ounce, this ounce thing doesn't matter. It's just, it's, it's, it's a process just to be overall healthy. What's your end all goal. Are you getting paid to do this? No, you know, so you're right. And then there's perspective too. So for like this, just this morning, I had a consult with a client and she, she's, she was doing this kind of new style. Like it's a cross of yoga and, uh, martial arts. And the reason why she's decided to do that is because she thought that the instructor giving the class had the greatest physique. Oh, that's the physique that she wanted. But the thing is, I looked her up and that the instructor used to be a high level ballet dancer and she's been, she's been training in this for hours and hours.

We're talking about 20 plus hours per week. That's all she does. Right. But now people were under the perception because all she did was two sessions a week and she did. I'm doing these two sessions a week because I want to look like her. Well, first of all, there's a genetic component, but second of all, like her physique is the results of 20 hours a week of that. Yeah. Not just two. I totally agree. There's, it's funny. I had a lady come in one time too that, and before I started this story, I have nothing against running, but this is just how the story went. So I was like, what's your, what's your goal?

Cause she kept saying all the things she wanted to do for fitness and so on. And she had an injury. That's why she was here. Um, so she looks around the room and there's, I have pictures on my wall from the patient. She's like, I want to look like her. I'm like, like her, you want to look like her. Okay. And, uh, so she was pointing at a picture of a runner and I said, do you know what she, do you know what she does? Do you know what she, what workload she does? She's like, no. I'm like, she runs a hundred plus miles a week. She does about two or three days of strength training and, um, yeah. Are you going to do any of that?

And she probably eats 4,000 calories a day or something too. She probably, oh, I don't know about her eating now, but, um, but either way, she, um, just the overall work and dedication. I'm like, realistically, are you going to do that? Because I think you better set some realistic goals. You know, like, I mean, sure you can look like that too, but you got, you probably got to do some calorie cutting and everything like that. Cause she was like light years thinner than she was. Um, but, um, okay. So as we wrap up, I want to, um, see, is there anything that you're really excited about with, within exercise or fitness currently that we didn't talk about?

What's new? That's like that you are personally interested in that I'm personally interested in. Well, um, I don't know if it's going to be interesting to, um, your listeners, but I'm, I'm not a huge technology guy. I think that's our generation, but, and I haven't used a lot in, in my field because I always had to, I always needed to use field tests when I evaluated people, but there's more and more technology, uh, that looks at, uh, force velocities when you're training. Um, so, you know, so for example, you can do something like a squat and know exactly how much force you're putting into your squat and at what velocity you're actually doing your concentric rep, uh, which are things that I didn't really have access to.

Like you can have that to develop an eye for, but because I love number and normative data so much, that's something that excites me. And I'm feeling quite interesting and to kind of play with training protocols and see, okay, well, this training protocol leads to that type of force output and that type of velocity that one, no stuff like that. Is, is that a, is that a metric on the bar or is it like a, like a plate? Yeah, there, there's both. So there's a force plate, which, which, uh, calculate force output. Then there's a metric on the barbell that calculates the velocity of the barbell. So like pretty cool gadgets.

And I think there was more and more coming out now. So the, the price points are, are becoming more interesting as well. Yeah, I saw actually, uh, recent, my friend, um, he, he, he buys bulk, like baseball bats, gloves, stuff like that. So he showed me this bat and in the end there was a, there was a little, uh, cutout area. I'm like, what the hell is this? And he's like, well, you can put a meter in there to show how fast your bat speed is. I'm like, well, I don't care. I don't care. I just want the ball to go somewhere, you know? Yeah. Um, but that was really cool. Yeah. I think, I think that stuff is cool.

The, um, I had seen one reference. I don't remember the, where it was, but it was something to the effect of, it was an ACL injury on a girl that was one about one year post-op. So they had a bunch of strength coaches gather around. I'm sure there was therapists and stuff there too. So they all watched her and they said, okay, so who believes she is shifting weight to the non, to the non-injured side? And majority of the people I think said she looks fine. And then they put force plates under her and they saw that she was about, I think, and don't quote me on this. I want to say it was like 75% loading single side that just visually we couldn't see.

So I think the force plates are really interesting because I mean, that kind of stuff is important, you know? Yeah. And it's cool because like the eye, it can lie sometimes with these things. It just standardizes like everything. So I think it's pretty cool, but yeah. And so like, even like the, the, your example with the bath, you know, it's for most people, it's a little useless, but if you're training like baseball players, because like performance, it's, it's about quality. So, and the way the nervous system creates a certain speed, it's a rate coding of a order of motor units you're recruiting.

And the thing is, if you're batting, let's say you're doing, doing 30 swings and your 30 swings are at velocity XYZ. But then, then all of a sudden it starts dropping. Then you might be like, as a coach, like, okay, we're done for now. Enough swings. Instead of keep on going and now teaching a slower bat velocity, a slower motor pattern. So it, it has its place, but like, it's so specific. Yeah. I think it's going to be like people that either they're, they love the numbers or there's a reason why they're trying to perform so high. Yeah, exactly. But, um, I know for me, I mean, I like, that'd be cool to see on the bat, but I don't, I don't know if it's going to change.

Yeah. I can barely hit the ball anyways. Yeah. Um, how can everyone reach you? I know that you mentioned online training as well as you have the gym here in Huntington. Yeah. So, uh, we have our Facebook page and Instagram page, which is kilo strength society, uh, dot com. And, uh, you can reach me personally at Stefan at kilo strength society.com. Cool. Do you guys have, uh, you don't have other social media, Instagrams or anything like that or? Uh, we pretty much have all of them except, uh, Twitter. Okay. Twitter's a pain. Like I don't have enough things to say all day to like write 20 times a day.

And yeah, I think on Twitter, you got to be pretty frequent on there. Yeah. So I don't have it either. So I'm going to bash it. Yeah. I think Facebook, Instagram are like kind of, that's probably enough. Yeah. If they can't find you there, they're not looking hard enough. Yeah. You should find us. Well, awesome. So thanks for coming on. Um, anything you'd like to recap at the very end here? No, it was good. It was a great talk. It was fun. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. No problem. Wasn't that, wasn't that a really good interview right there? I think, I think he was the, the main feature.

So everyone, I want you to go on and reach out to Stefan so you can find their website. Again, it's kilostrengthsociety.com. Facebook, you can also find Kilo Strength Society. Instagram's the same thing. YouTube is the same thing as well. Um, I did include all these links onto the show notes that you can find at p2sportscare.com slash podcast, slash podcast, sorry, pound 79. Cause this is episode 79. So pretty easy right there. So we're going to include, uh, there is a link to the bench press video that we're speaking about. So if you haven't reviewed already, do so, get in the drawing, do the screenshot, email it, and you can be in the drawing for that t-shirt right there.

And don't forget to go check out those p2sportscare.com slash shop, modern patient education, graphics and posters. Cause I make them for you guys to share. Okay. I know there's a lot of young docs out there and if you're anything like me, you had a room with nothing on the walls when you first started. Or if you're lucky, you had, uh, another doc lend you like a spine or something because you're just scrapping to make ends meet. So those posters are really affordable and shoot, talk about return on investment. You get one person to refer one person, you pay for all them posters right there. So lastly, just like I say every week, okay, be good to each other and leave people better than what you found them.

It's not what you take, it's what you leave. So I hope these podcasts are here for years after I'm gone. Talk to you guys next week. See ya.