Choosing an EHR for your chiropractic or PT practice

We are actually, we have the coolest customers, for real, we do. They're all the, they're the best clinics out there. But Jane is like a central hub. We have our team, and then we have our customers. And then beyond that, we do have our patients. And we know that like your, your goal is to delight your patients. Our goal is to delight you. And in doing so, delight your patients as well. And Jane's having, we do have a relationship with your patients, because they're using online booking and reminders. And so that's a responsibility that we hold. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales.

Hey, everyone. It's Sebastian from the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the Movement Movement. This is your first time. It's about a 45-minute to an hour-long format where we discuss how to become a better clinician and get our patients to really feel better quicker. A lot of times in this podcast, we'll cover really great clinical case studies, as well as interviewing experts, making educational tools for patients to listen to. And also, there's things like what we're going to cover today, which is a little bit more business for the clinician, the PT, the DC. And I'm sure MDs will get you set of this, too. But this one is going to be one of those ones. So if you're a patient or a lay public, you won't be interested in this one whatsoever. So just tune back in next week, next week, and we'll get to some more cool stuff for you.

However, as a clinician, you need to, a lot of times, make it so your business works, make it so it's seamless, make it easy for patients to come in, book online, pay their fees, make sure that everything's reconciled, paperwork, all that kind of jazz. And so that's what we're going to cover today with Allison from Jane App. And this is not a paid podcast. She did not pay to be on here. I asked her to be on here to talk about Jane App because I've used a lot of EHRs in the past. And this is by far the best. I've been in practice for 12 years, and I thought this is something that would help you guys make your life easier, basically.

So we're going to cover a lot of that today. So I think you'll be very interested if you're a clinician. Again, if you're not, then tune out until next week. As always on this podcast, I really do my best to spread good information. And so the best gift you can give me or paying back is spread it to your friends, spread it to your colleagues who you think would really benefit from this information. So please do that. We don't really, I guess I don't really promote this podcast anywhere else other than just word of mouth. So if you want to keep going and you like the interviews and you like the information, just share it.

Share it with your buddies because that's how things get around. You know, that's how they know. I know things got around in school. You just share it, you know. You don't have to pay anyone for reviews and stuff. So typically in this podcast, we will, I'll share a little bit of a short story about myself just so you guys understand who I am as a person and a host. And so my hope is that you guys like me enough to follow along with this journey so you learn with me. I've learned a lot through the 200 plus podcasts that I've done. So hopefully you go back into the archives because also too, we are doing, we are not releasing weekly for a little bit of time in an effort to get you guys to catch up with the old information, but also to give myself a little bit of a rest too because it's been, it's been, it's challenging to come up with new information all the time.

So we're going to get in that short story and get right into the interview with Allison. So if you know me well enough, I, you know, I always have a home improvement project going. And so this year I decided to do a little bit more of closet doors. So we decided to do some kind of barn style closet doors. And so this project was supposed to be something really quick, super dirty. I'm pretty good with, with working with wood. And so I decided to put them on top of the other closet doors. And so when I did that, I mean, I believe in the measure twice, cut once type of philosophy, probably in this project, I should have measured five times, cut once.

It ended up, the closet doors were too thick. And so I had to then shave the old closet doors off of the new closet doors, which in the essence, I should just made new closet doors completely. Anyways, the tracks came and I measured incompletely as thinking about that, the tracks, the, the wheels on the tracks would also decrease the amount of width that you can go in the entire opening. So I was short and I had to re-drill the holes. And so basically the closet doors have holes from the bolts from the hardware that I had to expand out of. And so I have to fill it up with caulking and you know, wood, wood putty, all that type of jazz.

And so they kind of look like they were brand new closet doors that I was making, but now they look like fifth hand closet doors, but screw it. I'm all done. I can't do it again. But it turned and turned into like a five hour, six hour project with what I estimated. And it went into a, it went into about a 31. So it was pretty, pretty bad. So, um, I encourage everyone to do enough home improvement projects where they feel like they don't want to ever do it again. Like I will never do drywall again. So, uh, that was the story of the mishap this year. Now let's get on to the interview. Okay. Yeah.

I think that's better. Okay. I shut down. I'm a tab person. How many tabs do you have open on your browser at any moment? Four. Four? Yeah. Oh, and is your, are you inbox zero? Do you have no emails? No, I got, no. I'm at 755 right now. Okay. All right. We can be friends. That's fine. Do you do all your charts same day? I do. You have to say yes to that. You're being recorded. Yeah. Well, I really do. I don't like thinking about like, so there's, um, especially like new patients. Like I don't, I don't like going home and trying to remember. Totally. I just want to put it on paper. Yeah. I know even now with, um, like demos, I, we don't let our team do too many demos in a day because you forget what you've already told people.

Cause we don't do like the deck style demo. I don't know if you did a demo of Jane before you signed up. We just like say, Hey, okay, let's show you Jane. And we kind of talk about it and show you, you know, how it goes. And I didn't know that other people did demos differently until I started doing demos of other software. And I was like, Oh, you don't normally even see the product. They like walk you through a, a deck and they tell you the story of the company. And it was very interesting. Yeah. There was a, uh, if I recall, right, there was like a demo, a demo site you use like with a dummy patient and stuff like that.

Yeah. We have a few of those now, but they get really messy because so many people go in and play around. So they break them very quickly, like all the practitioners, they like delete everything. There's no insurance. They change the tax rates. And then everyone's like, what the hell is this? Oh, sorry. I didn't, I didn't know you can actually edit. I'm going to have to go through and just play games with people. Start editing. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes people go in and create really hilarious staff members. So far we haven't had any problems where we've had to like inappropriate content, but that definitely is possible.

The password resets every week. Oh, good to know. So, um, yeah, once you introduce yourself, Allison, and, uh, tell everyone who you are and what you do now. Um, okay. I'm Allie from Jane. We, people call us Jane app, although we never called ourselves Jane app until other people started calling us Jane app, um, which is a practice management software. We're based out of Canada. So your neighbors to the North, probably for most of you, do you know, are your listeners international? Yeah, they're all over. So, so is Jane. So that's, that's perfect. We're being used around the world, but we did start in Vancouver.

Um, I don't know how far to go back. I have, um, I opened a practice, a multidisciplinary practice in 2011, which is physio, chiro, massage, naturopath, um, counselors, acupuncture, a little bit of everything. There's 30 practitioners. I think that work there still running. We just reopened, um, last month after the shutdown and we're happy. I mean, the demand has been, the pent up demand in patients has been really fascinating. And then also trying to return to practice safely. I know you're in California, so you're having an open close open scenario. So it's a little bit different for everybody.

We're really feeling, um, it's interesting. The pent up, the, I've noticed the same thing that it's like hairstylists, like they'll probably get a burst because the need was there, but they were afraid to come. I know you can't see my roots right now. You can see them while I have my hair is wet. You can't see them, but I have COVID roots. I mean, I always have COVID roots. I have, um, startup business founder roots cause I never got the hairdressing. Um, but yeah, there is a pent up demand. It's everyone's full. We actually were trying to prioritize, um, we reprioritized our roadmap based on, I mean, my experience of opening and closing and opening the clinic, uh, and what we're hearing from all of our Jane community.

And we're trying to reprioritize our roadmap to make sure that what we're developing is the most helpful features for the world that we are currently living in. And so we had, um, waitlist notifications was something that we were developing and we were like, well, maybe we should kind of reprioritize, but we're not because there's so much demand. Um, we thought there might be a trickle, like people would be unsure about returning to care, but we're not seeing that. Are you seeing that? You're seeing that? There's definitely, I, I, I, I would put people in the world. On a scale of like one to 10, 10 is like, I'm really, really afraid.

I haven't left my house. Like I know people like that still. And then there's other people who they venture out there or one. And so, uh, I think based upon, you know, the current status, like we'll get, like, I got like last, this last two, two weeks, I've gotten 20 new patients, but there's other people who have pushed their appointments back so far. They're like, Oh, I'll, I'll be back in September. It's like, so who knows what's going to be happening then. Yeah. And I think everyone's taking precautions and in the healthcare space, um, we were already taking precautions. So I think, you know, for restaurants, it's quite a huge leap, but in healthcare, the distance you have to go was smaller, you know?

So more space between people, maybe a little bit more disinfecting, maybe everyone in masks, but you were already disinfecting between, you were already doing all of that, you know? Yeah. So it's interesting how, um, the difference between safe practice and very safe practice is smaller in healthcare. So that's been nice, but yeah, procuring PPE and that whole, it's been an interesting experience. Well, I thought it's been, um, I was, I saw that right when this whole thing happened to be in like, was it March or whatever now? Um, so there was a big scramble of, uh, for telehealth. Yeah. There's really no infrastructure put up or anything like that.

People went on zoom. Uh, I would, I took a couple of workshops where they were talking about like, what's a, what you can do and so on. I think they were even allowing things like FaceTime for a period of time, like allowing. Yeah. They relaxed the requirements, um, pretty drastically. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that Jane came out with something because it was really challenging to put someone on the schedule and then have to jump on zoom or FaceTime. And so it was easier when you guys made that interface on there. Yeah. Well, in longterm, you're going to have to go back to, you're going to have to use something that's HIPAA compliant and intended for the medical space.

So we'd already started developing the, the, um, that kind of big work on the video appointments, but we sort of had already been developing that. And then we rushed, we rushed the release. So it was released quite quickly. And then I don't know if you read the announcement that we're just, we've decided to include it, um, at no charge with all the plans. Oh, I didn't see that yet. Perpetuity. Yeah, it's, it's because it became a bit commoditized. We were planning on charging for it as an ad on. And remember, we were speaking earlier about how people are feeling, we're occasionally hearing feedback that Jane is becoming, you know, a bit complicated for people during the setup phase, talking about how every clinic is so unique.

And as we add a new feature, we're like, well, this practice wants to use it this way. This practice wants to use it this way. And this practice wants to use it this way. So we have to have settings. So once you set Jane up, it runs, you know, you tell Jane, basically train Jane, you have to train Jane, like you would train an admin staff a little bit. This is how my practice runs. And then it runs fine. But, um, the tele, like telehealth was something that not all practices were going to be using. So we wanted to make it something that you enabled or you didn't enable, but now it's becoming a more standardized form of care.

You're using it. Yeah, I am. And there's, um, we were able to like, you know, we, we stalled on the setup, you know, for a little bit of time, but we still used, um, the telehealth aspect in the beginning of whole COVID era. And then we realized that there's some people that say, cause we really utilize the online booking a lot. Like we love, like, I like the ability to not have someone like manhandle the phone all the time. And just if someone's ready and they're hot and they want to come in, they just book online. Um, that's just an expectation now, isn't it? Like everyone has online booking.

You think so, but, but we split it up into, uh, so that when you first encounter the page, it's in person or virtual. Yeah. I saw that. I was just on your site. And so then we split that into two other options too. And so that's been helpful because people, they, they can act, they can access different forms too. Um, and we hadn't set up the forms in a while too. We had one, one intake form, but I kind of wanted other ones, uh, that would allow a little bit more detailed question for, uh, for telehealth. Yeah, we, that was the other feature that we rushed for COVID was intake form by appointment type.

So you could send out a different intake form if you were doing in-person versus telehealth. So I know those were, that was sort of our initial response. And then we were doing a lot of education around the, um, the financial aid that you could receive. It was basically just mimicking. I'm like, this is all the stuff I need to know. So I'm going to research it and I'm going to try to do it. And then let's make sure we tell everybody about this. I was obsessive about all the different, and even still, it's very different depending what country you're in as well. Even what state or province you're in is different.

What's available to you. I'm still fighting with my landlord. Oh yeah. Not give me any rent relief. Um, and I'm still working on that. Yeah. There's, um, I know a lot of places around here did get rent relief. I, we had a program here in Canada where the government would pay, um, 75% of the mortgage on a commercial property. And so, you know, a lot of people are taking advantage of that program, but it did depend on the landlord applying for it. But I'm just going to talk about this because they're not doing it. But my landlord is the, is my city is the district of North Vancouver that owns my space.

And they're saying that because of like the BC community charter, they're not allowed to provide assistance to businesses. And because they're government, they don't have a mortgage. So I'm taking loans from the, from the federal government, like their business loans to keep you running and I'm paying it to my local government in rent. That's what's happening right now. I'm like, this is what small business is everybody. This story is what small business looks like. It's just, it's so fascinating. This is our heart at Jane is like for the small business, you know, these people running, running their businesses around.

And you were talking about this before students at school. And when you're, you're learning, you're really into the clinical side. So excited about treating patients. So excited about learning how to be a great therapist. And then the business side is sort of like, oh, I'll figure that out later. And then what you learn later is you have to do it around your clinical practice, which means you're doing it evenings and weekends and in between. And I'm not, I don't have a clinical practice, but I have a day job at Jane and then I'm running all of the extras around that. So it's a similar thing. Yeah.

It's, it's challenging a balance. And I know that, yeah, I know there's, there are all the issues with small business. And I'm sure, I'm sure at the same time when they had you do all that stuff that they probably still came in to check your fire extinguisher and ask for the alarm fee. And, you know, there's all these other fees that are associated with small business. You know, you know what I noticed, and this would be a tangent topic. I noticed that I, so I have a lot of friends that are not small business owners. They have no idea how much the small business, like how appreciative a small business is to actually get a review or like I went to a local barber.

Because I, like I went from a big barber to a little barber because I told them, I was like, dude, I just want to support someone small. Like I want you to survive. Yeah, I know, you know, my, this is sort of off topic, but my mother is retired and she was a physio and she owned a practice and my father also a physio. So I come from the therapy world that actually we never finished my story, but Jane started at my clinic, which I jump around a lot. So in 2011, when I was opening my practice, there was no online booking or electronic charting that worked for, especially across my diverse range of practitioners, there was just too many different types.

And most software is really built with a single discipline in mind. And I think that's interesting also because I've never met two practitioners of the same discipline who treat the same way. Like if you put chiros next to each other, you're all going to treat differently because it's, it's an art and science and it's very personal and what works and it's all based on your own learning. I read somewhere on your site that you talked about graduating from school and then most of your learning has actually kind of happened since then. You know, you've continued on this learning journey and you've continued that based on your own interests and what excited you and what you felt worked.

Again, you've combined that with your experience treating patients and what you've seen as being successful. So there's anecdotal learning in there. There's pattern recognition. There's just general enthusiasm that you as a person have towards certain injuries or certain things. Like maybe you love TMJ and maybe you love low back pain and maybe you love sports injuries. Like, you know, every person is so unique that their treatment style is going to evolve into something very, very unique. And so the way that you document that is going to be very different because you're using very different skills and very different techniques.

And anyway, so I think it's interesting that there's not really flexibility in many software for how you do that. Yeah. So that was sort of the basis of where Jane started. Well, I know that when I first started on Jane, I created my own form, my own intake form, my own soap notes and so on. And then I had a couple of friends that went on Jane who they were more diligent about making better forms. And so I just got them to share it. Perfect. Great. And then I was like, I didn't like everything they did, but I like the basic framework. And so I edited it, which only took a little bit of time. And then you guys, I realized that there was something called dot phrase, which was a, it's a Google Chrome extension, which I just, I think I just emailed your team about like a month or so ago when there was the new beta version.

And so it wasn't working well on Jane, but then there was the, what do you call it when you put the slash phrases? And so if everyone doesn't know what phrases or dot phrase is, is, uh, basically if I wanted to write a whole like book about, you know, like like a 15 page pair, uh, paragraphs or whatever about like this one patient type, you put slash L O B or whatever you want to call it. And then it just pops up. Yeah. The whole thing. It can be all your physical exam. It can be all your low back tests. It can be all your comments, your PI reports. Everything could be at literally like two seconds worth of typing.

They're shortcuts. They're kind of like the auto expanders or there's lots of different ways that people talk about them. The thing is, it's like an, a way to bring narrative note taking as well in without all the typing, which is helpful, especially if you're doing insurance cases and you are providing your notes to people and you want to, and they can't understand your shorthand. I think it's interesting. Like how did people do that when they were doing paper notes? I don't know. I, I have no idea. Narrative charting. Like narrative charting must be a thing that's new with EHR because in paper notes, people just did major abbreviations, right?

You can never understand anyone's notes. I feel like, I feel like the notes that I experienced when I was going through like internship and so on, it was just a lot of, it wasn't really a lot of writing. It was more circling and things like that. Yeah. And so now it's kind of shifted into this narrative form. And I think actually generally depleased the insurance industries. And I mean, I could talk for hours and hours about insurance. I think it's fascinating and it shapes your practice and business far more than you even notice, you know, you have to conform into this world. It, it makes or breaks whether an industry is successful in the, what did you call the movement providers space?

If you're covered by insurance, you can be much more successful in private practice. Even if you're a cash-based practitioner, there's just something about, it gives authority to your discipline. It's just so interesting, the whole world. And then the differences between insurance going around the world, especially Canada and U.S., we're very different. Yeah. I can imagine. I don't get, it's a, it's, it's a, do people, are people just, is it like they're, it's, it's, everyone has the same insurance? Is that what it is? Or Canada? Yeah. So we all, like we have three basic healthcare. So our hospital, we don't have to pay, like I had three babies and I paid $0, which is, I think when I learned that that's, you have to save up, that many people don't, they have to pay to have a baby.

It was just the oddest concept to me. But so our basic healthcare is all covered. So, you know, my kids break their legs or whatever. We just go to the hospital. I have a trampoline and I have bunk beds and I, my children are in competitive sports. I've been to the hospital many times. But things like allied health is actually under our employee or extended healthcare. So physio, chiro, massage, naturopath, acupuncture, counseling, well, even psychology, counseling isn't regulated. It depends on the regulation of the profession. Anyway, those are under the same as you, secondary insurers, but they behave differently.

So that's all based on like, we can charge a hundred bucks. You submit a hundred bucks, you get a hundred bucks paid. And it's, there's not the fighting. It's just very different on the private system, the cash system than it is on the insurance system. The insurance here is it's, it's a, I remember that like we, we weren't doing insurance for probably about six, seven years. I mean, not a lot like, and I did in the beginning because I wanted to make sure that I took the opportunity to try, try with it, but I remember that to, to figure out, there's always this uncertainty with like, I know we had a patient, it was in around December time where their insurance quoted 80% coverage or reasonable customer.

Right. And I'm like, okay, like I just hired a new doctor and I said, let's just take a gamble. Let's just see. Like, I don't know what this will pay, but let's just see. You gotta learn. Yeah. They ended up paying like $30 and it was like, but we build 200, you know? So, and so they knocked that all down, but someone else's 80% could, could easily, you know, 150 bucks. So it's just, you just never know what to tell the patient or at least we don't, you know? Yeah, it takes a lot of education for you and for your practice. And then you have to educate your patients and it's just, it's a lot of work.

So you don't realize becoming a provider and opening a clinic is going to be, you're going to have to, I mean, you already know you're an educator about their bodies, but you have to become an educator about their insurance coverage as well. If you're going to be doing insurance work and it's an area that they don't even understand what they're covered for. So the patient can't really help you decipher it. Um, and then the insurance companies are also fascinating the way they position themselves because anyway, we probably shouldn't talk too much about nobody thinks it's interesting but me and I get, I go to like insurance billing courses and I get super excited about it and people think that's weird, but it's a fascinating space.

And I think, um, we're working on trying to make it easier, um, with Jane. So we're actually just about to release the second phase of our, we say U S insurance, but then we don't say that to you because it sounds weird for you to say U S insurance, but the second phase of that is about to be released. And then we've got one more phase coming. So nice. Well, so, so then, um, tell me, cause, cause a lot of the students are, sorry, the students are probably listening or the new grads are listening. What are some things they need to be aware of when they're picking an EHR? Um, I've already told, I've already told them to do that, but they're going to want to shop.

And so I think, um, it really, I guess it does depend on your practice. We, we do demos and, um, I actually tell my team, if you don't think that the customer is going to be, if they're not going to be a good fit for Jane, you should tell them that. So we, I think we have about a 70%, it's called like a conversion rate. So we do seven out of 10 demos sign up and the other three don't. And, um, often we're telling people not to. So if they are doing a demo and it's not a good fit, we will actually tell them because our priority is that we say delighted customers. And if you're not a good fit for Jane, you're not going to be delighted.

And that's actually going to be hurtful to our brand. Uh, it's kind of like you, if you see a patient, you don't think that they're a good patient for your skillset, you should refer them away because trying to treat them, you're not going to end up with a delighted patient. Who's then going to go tell other friends how great you are. You're going to end up with a dissatisfied patient. And so our pay, like your patients are, are Jane users. So my goal is always that people are using the best software for their practice, whether that's Jane or not. So we'll sometimes say you do way too many classes on our memberships and packages isn't ideal right now.

That's going to frustrate you. You should find something better when we get memberships and packages, join our mailing list. You should come back to Jane right now. We're not a perfect fit for you. And so it's really making sure that you're getting a true, deep understanding of each software and then also understanding what's important to your business. What are you going to be doing 99% of your time? And does this software make that easy for you? So that's one. The other is, um, data liberation, I think is something that people don't think enough about what are they going to do with your data if you decide you want to leave that software?

Or do they charge you a whole bunch to get it out? Do they let you take it with you? How easy is that? Um, there's it, especially with a lot of us software because of the, um, you were being paid to move online. There was that whole push to move into EHR. People sort of created, um, EHR components to their practice management software quite quickly. And there wasn't a ton of, um, consideration necessary on how to get that data out. So how do you export your data? I would definitely ask questions about that. Um, where your data is stored is important if you're international, although U S companies should pretty much always store it in the U S, but if you're international, you want it stored in country for the most part.

Um, and then, uh, support and pricing, I always say if you're, if you're doing demos, just make sure you really get to play with the software before you sign up. Um, and then contracts too. How long are you being roped in to stay with this company? You mentioned something actually, uh, I, before I went to Jane, I had to export and. Oh, did you? Yeah. Holy shit. It was like, I won't mention what service it was, but it was, um, it was a pain in the butt. It was really challenging. Um, they, there was a fee to export it. Um, and you needed a certain, like, you know, a different type of drop box or like you needed all this other stuff to happen.

And it was really challenging. Um, the data integration or the, the old note integration to Jane was really easy. Yeah, I had to, but I had to ask because if I'd try to figure it out myself, it would be challenging, but, um, yeah, I mean, we're very support centric. Uh, we have, we've actually always, we started growing more on the, we had more on the support side than even on the dev side for the longest time. And we've only just bumped up our dev team. Actually, I think we still have more support people. I don't know, but our support team does everything. They do the sales. So the person that you talk to for a demo is the same person that is supporting after signup.

And then that's not very, that's not normal in the software world. I also didn't know this until starting Jane, they split it up usually into sales. They're all acronyms and you have to like. Um, it's like business development reps and account executives and, um, customer success and customer support are different and say like they split their teams up and across many different areas. So depending on what you need, you'll talk to a different department, I guess. But Jane, it's just one team that does everything. So they're not motivated to, and they're also not compensated based on sales. No one in our company is compensated based on sales.

So if you're doing a demo, they're not getting paid if you sign up. So they're, but they do have to support you if you sign up. So if you're not a good expert, they're not going to try to get you to sign up because they don't want to support you after because it would be awful. So I think that's been part of our, our story too, is just, um, we want delighted, we want delighted customers. So, you know, looking into the company, I think does make sense too. You want to make sure that they're, um, that you align with where they're going and what they want to do with the product and, um, also how they're going to support you.

You're going to need a lot of support in technical with a technical product. Yeah. Well, I know that with definitely with, um, going into new softwares and, uh, like even buying a new computer, um, I would get frustrated with things that I can't find. Like even when I, like, so I do put on my own website work and, uh, if I can't resize a picture, I about want to stab my eyeballs out, you know, and, uh, it's just nice to have someone on the other side and, uh, I can vouch for every, anytime I've emailed Jane, I get back within about a day. And there's been many times where I was a dumb ass and I didn't search the help function, but they made their own personal video, my own personal video to explain to me, even use my name and showed me how to do it on a, on like a screenshot.

Um, but every single, literally almost every single thing you search on the help function, there's already a detailed step-by-step video or outline of how to do it. So there's, there's not like, there's a ton of handholding, um, but they're always nice about it. Yeah. It's, that's funny too. Sometimes when we hire people that have done supported a different company, we have to tell them to slow down or like send less emails, but be nicer. This is just a human. I always say it's a human to human. We're not a robot. So like, let's not be robotic. And then sometimes, so actually our support team go through, it was three months of training before they could even send an email and we just cut it back to two because we were so busy.

We're with, um, the whole COVID response. We were, we were grounding. Like it was taking, it was two hour waits on the phone. Um, because we had so many people switching over for telehealth or switching over because they were closed. It's like a, as a business, when you're closed, you have all this pent up admin stuff you need to do like softwares. So they were taking the time to move over. Um, so we reduced our training to two months, but even then we're doing ongoing, we're like, we're doing ongoing training for the support team even beyond that two months. It's like you, it's a never ending journey.

It's a career. Yeah. It's fun. I feel like every time I call, I get this, uh, South African or Australian guy. I can't tell, but he's always so, he's always so good. Oh, he did one of the allied webinars. You should watch it. Okay. I'll find, I'll send it to you after. Okay. Yeah. I remember I, one time I had this, I was learning about billing Medicare thing and we were asking about like, uh, like a, um, 1500 form box. And I'm like, how do I populate this box? He's like, I don't know. And then, so he's like, I'm going to figure it out and give it. And so we did figure it out. Um, but he was honest about not knowing it yet.

And then he figured it out and then we figured it out together. Um, but I learned how to bill Medicare through Josh. So, yes, we always say, I don't know what's better than the wrong answer. So get back to them with the right answer. And you know, it's a better, it's a better end result. You know, we, I've been talking a lot about community, um, at Jane and I drew a very horrific diagram. I basically, uh, I, it's fine. I grew up in Medicare and like the medical world. So my artistic, you know, it's like the stick man of the, it's a horrible diagram, but it just talks about, um, what the Jane community really looks like.

Cause we call our customers a community. And I'd love to do more there to connect the community of customers we have. Cause they're just wonderful. We have the coolest. We are actually like, we have the coolest customers for real. We do. They're all the, they're the best clinics out there. But Jane is like a central hub. We have our team and then we have our customers. And then beyond that, we do have our patients. And we know that like your, your goal is to delight your patients. Our goal is to delight you. Um, and in doing so delight your patients as well. And Jane's having, we do have a relationship with your patients cause they're using online booking and reminders.

And so that's a responsibility that we hold. Um, but just talking about how to strengthen every single, I call it like the fascia of Jane, which is the connection between all of these points, the connection between Jane and our team, our team and our customers, our customers and their patients, and then also to each other. So like the chart library that you were talking about and allied, and we're trying to do more to connect. We just had launched them a community forum where people can just chat about their practices because it's lonely being a business owner. Like it is actually really lonely being a small business owner.

No one quite understands the struggles of running a small business. No one like no one really quite understands even your team working at their practice with you. They just don't quite see the work that happens behind the scenes. It's quite invisible actually. Uh, and then there's also this, um, this perception that business owners, um, are raking in the cash. And I also think that's kind of funny, um, because we know that the margins on clinics is actually quite thin. Um, and usually you as a practitioner have to work in order to make that work. Like there's no, I'm just going to go on vacation and keep pulling in, you know, the same paycheck.

Um, it's very interesting. So it's kind of lonely and not only then, but also in the celebration moments, like in the winds, there's, you can sell it. There's not, there's not always people who can celebrate with you in the same way. So this community I'm hoping can be a place where people can connect like that and also just ask questions and get feedback. They're asking a lot of Jane questions, but they're also talking about just general practice questions. Where do you find that? I'm on Jane right now. On Facebook. It's an, it's on Facebook because we were, I know some people are not loving being on the Facebook platform, but it needed to be a place that people already were spending time.

It's really hard to, no one in practice ever logs onto an outside platform. Like no one would ever go there. So it's called returning to practice. Yeah. It's called returning to practice right now, but we're going to, we'll update it to a more generic name because people just started talking in there about everything. Oh, nice. Yeah. I'm checking in right now. Quite nice. It's, they are, it's a really helpful group of people. And, and like, remember we were talking before about how every clinic is so unique and does things very differently. So someone will ask a question and then everyone will just talk about how they are doing it using Jane in their practice.

So it's really super helpful. So I'm hoping to do more to strengthen those. It's like every single one of those bonds creates this community that we're a part of. It's Jane, it's our team, it's our, it's our practices and it's the patients that are connected to them. I'm excited. I'm excited to keep building that out. I think it's going to be fun. Nice. I just logged in. So I'll, I'll check it out. Once I get approved, you can post the podcast. You can post there this, by the way, this will probably air. I should probably tell you, it'll air later. Uh, I get just, although I do have a lot of emails in my inbox, uh, I, I get way ahead on content.

So I think it's supposed to air in September. Oh, nice. So it'll be a ways away. Um, the, I'll let you know the exact date when I, when I see it there right now, that means, what do you think is going to be relevant in September? Every day right now is exactly the same and completely different. Yeah. I think it's a good question. Yeah. Go ahead. I keep interrupting you. I think my microphone's stronger too. So it'll always interrupt you. This is how I have conversations all the time. You have to interrupt me or you'll never get to talk. Yeah. I bet, I bet in October, there's some professional sport that will take people's attention away from everything else.

And they'll be able, we'll be able to like get engaged into a sport again because that people are passionate about sports and watching them. Did you hear that EA, the video game company, they're licensing their stadium sounds or they're giving their stadium sounds to the people that are going to be broadcasting live sports events? Oh, really? Because there can't be a crowd. So the video game noises are going to be played while the match is on so that when you're watching it, you feel the excitement. Man, I, I don't know how, how, how are they going to make any money in the sport? Like, cause it's the, I thought the stadium is a stadium owned by the owner of the team.

No, I think stadiums are independently owned, man. They're going to be hurting. Yeah, because my, Trevor, my co-founder, his brother was doing light mazes, like those, like Christmas experiences. And he was renting out the baseball stadiums on the off season and doing them in there. But now he can't cause that's in person. So now he's looking at a new solution, which is also, it's very cool. I think when people are, when you're constrained, you come up with very creative solutions. And so it's sort of like moving to telehealth and the EA sounds, we're entering this hybrid world, which is mixing tech solutions with things that typically would never would have had no need for in the past.

So even a chiropractor using telehealth, you probably never, ever would have done that before. Yeah, I bet we're going to find more, um, we're probably going to find more chiropractors with low back pain because if we're doing telehealth, so it's just going to be a real big, a lot of disc injuries. It's just, Oh, interesting. I've, I've never really had, I mean, I've had issues with my, with backs and shoulders. You were sitting there moving your shoulders around. Yeah. Are you feeling back pain in there? Oh no, I'm actually, I'm actually looking at the lighting because this room, my light went out.

And so I put up these makeshift lights and I'm like, Hmm, where can I get into a better light where I'm not, don't seem cryptic. So, um, but yeah, I bet like, so my girlfriend's been doing a virtual for, she was, she's a trainer, but she'd been doing virtual. Usually she feels pretty good. And all of a sudden she's had 40 hours of like virtual, like luckily her clients are very receptive of it. And, um, but she's like this, like I need to get, I need to move, you know, and usually we're on the floor with people. So. Yeah, it's true. It's and zoom fatigue, like the, they call it zoom fatigue. It's like, it's a real thing when you have just sitting in front of the computer meetings all day and we're computer people and we're feeling it like our normal life in front of computers all day.

I said that my kids are home obviously and I'm working, um, and they're just, I said to them the other day, do you think it's strange that my job is literally just sitting in front of a computer time? That's what I do. I just sit here in front of a computer talking to people for hours. If we just take the screen away and make it black, it would make it really awkward. You know, it's kind of like, like when you, when you're out of the lake, if you have a fishing pole in your hand, it's okay. But if, if not, you're just this weirdo looking out at the ocean forever, we're trying to figure out even like, um, walk in walking meetings.

Like you can take zoom or take your meeting and go and walk around the neighborhood. And, um, we're adding actually yoga to our week. We're adding yoga to our staff's week schedule so that they get up and do some movement. We did a pushup challenge. So three times a day I get a little notification that tells me to do 10 pushups. So then as a company, we're going to meet a pushup goal. It gets very competitive. There was people that were doing like 80 pushups every three times a day. So you bring up a good question now that you got me thinking. So since telehealth, you have to be, you have to see, you have to have a video with them to bill it as a code, I think.

So then being able to walk around, uh, like being a, I don't even know if it is, is telehealth on Jane allowed on the phone or is it on the phone right now or is it only on a computer? No, you can use it on the phone. If you're going to use it on an app, um, on an Apple device, Jane needs a tool from the app store based. So there's a, there's an app on the app store. You have to download on your phone, but you don't actually have to use it. Jane will just like kind of launch it in the background. But if you download it on your phone, you can use the telehealth on the, on the iPhone and then on Android, it's fine.

Oh, nice. Yeah. I like that. It'll cut down sitting time a little bit then. Yeah. You could put it on your phone and then you can, you can walk around. Video is obviously harder on your data use than just audio, but you could still walk around with it. Yeah. It'd be part of your business costs. Yeah. Well, we'll just keep, keep in wifi, just paste around the office or just stay in your wifi zone. Yeah. How far can you get your wifi from your office? You'd have to test it and then have your route planned out. Yeah. I think we just need a standalone clinic where you can circle the circle, the building, maybe make sure you're not attached to anything else.

You can piggyback up. No, I guess you can't piggyback off of it. You need to make sure your wifi is secure. Um, uh, side question too. Recording, some people want to record their video sessions like on zoom. Uh, is that, what do you know about that? And I see that Jane doesn't have it, but right now, yeah, we just, we launched, um, the most basic version very quickly. So it's just one-to-one and, uh, there's no recording, um, but it is encrypted and it's all in our secure servers and that whole side of things. And it's browser to browser, which is, it's an interesting newer technology. I actually think it's all fascinating.

What's the, I mean, it's fascinating. It does the same thing in a different way. And it's just so interesting that no one would ever know the difference. It's what most, many telehealth companies are using it actually. And get, has it, has there been any, how's the security with it? Any, any breaches? And no, no, we think a lot about that already. Again, it's the same, like GDPR. There's all these rules in the same with the California, like, um, privacy laws, all these things that come into effect. And it's kind of like I was saying before with you, um, with the sanitization and all of those, you're already pretty close, right?

Because we're already healthcare. And so same for us with all the privacy and security laws that come out. We're already, we're already pretty close because we're already thinking about this all the time. Yeah. Data security and breaches and privacy is already something we talk about constantly. Like nothing would be worse for us, right? So if anyone, like if anyone wants it to be secure, it's definitely us even more than anyone else. Um, well, I guess that's true for every company. Um, but the recording of it, yeah, we're, we're going to develop a secondary version and that one will be paid because this one already does have additional costs for us for, um, server usage and, um, but we're still, we decided to offer it for free.

Um, a lot of it to do with, we, we do have a hope for, we're still wanting to grow. We're an ambitious, we have an ambitious goal of being, you know, of helping clinics around the world run their practices. We kind of want Jane, Jane to be the only choice, you know, like what do you use? Well, obviously it's Jane. That would be my, that's our goal. We're both, and we're both not a sales organization and super competitive. I don't know how we're both things, but we, we sort of are. So it's part of that. So I always say, um, and because we grow on referral basis, anyway, we're not charging, but we will charge for the next version.

And the next version will have, um, group capabilities recording and high definition video. Nice. And that will have, um, a lot that will have higher costs, but it'll also be for a fee. Okay. I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of all the, maybe the questions the listeners would have, whether I, so, um, another thing this is, so this will be a little, a little bit of, uh, put you under the gun on these. Uh, I, I know that some people, for some reason by these really expensive front end in office softwares that are not web-based. Yeah. Is that, why do they choose that? Why did, like, do you have any idea why that's like so appealing that they make this big old, we call them legacy, um, and they're, they're just very, uh, well-established, right?

So you, you know of them and they're also the, they're the story of software. That's where software came from. Uh, and on-prem, like if you talk to someone who has an on-prem solution, they'll say they're more secure and they'll say you have your date, like they'll be able, they'll have a way that they talk and there, it's true on-prem and cloud are, are different animals. I had, I used to have on-prem software for my clinics, obviously before cloud software became a thing we all did. Uh, and then invariably I'd be leaving on, I remember so vividly like driving up to Whistler on a family vacation and getting a phone call.

My computer crashed from the clinic and I'm like, uh, just heading out of town, you know, you have to do, you have to, and luck, like I've always had like offsite backups, which are what those are cloud-based solutions. So I've, you have to take your on-prem and back it up on a cloud anyway. So we just take away that step. We're just doing it on the cloud to begin with. So if your computer crashes, you open your laptop, you open your phone and you have access to it. But yes, I had to go and tell them like, okay, run to the local computer store, buy whatever computer you can find, take it home.

And then I had to come walk them through restoring their cloud backup so that they could get back up. It was days. They were done for days and I was heading out of town. Yeah. I remember my, my dad has, my dad has a dental office. And so, um, for, for years he, um, I, I, so I used to work in the same office as him. And so I'd go in there and I would just look at his computer and the computer's on and then the mouse is moving by itself and like the little cursor is moving. And I'm like, what the hell's going on? And I figured out that it's, it's his offsite, um, person logging in to his computer.

Yeah. And I feel like that's what kind of, it seemed really clunky to me, you know, um, versus Jane, I just go on my phone. Like this morning I was eating breakfast and someone asked a question about, you know, their case. And so I didn't want to have my computer in front of me. So I just got on the app, checked out his file real quick, and then I could answer that email really quickly on my phone. Um, it just seems super clunky the way I saw his office anyways. Yeah. I'm kind of a bad person to ask that question because I wouldn't use, I would use, um, a web-based solution because I like the accessibility of it.

Also Jane's always, you're always on the newest version. There's not annual updates that have, there's not, you know, some people won't update their version or they'll be charged to update to a new version. Um, and we don't have that. You're, you're getting updates. We actually update the code probably a couple of times a day and you don't even, you don't even know most of the time. And we're just fixing things or keeping, you know, making sure things are running smoothly. And then if we do a big update, that's a new feature, we'll tell you about it. But generally we're updating multiple times a day.

Um, and then, yeah, I don't know. I'm a big fan of, of web-based. We use many, many web-based systems to run Jane and I would never use, and I can't even imagine downloading a piece of software onto it. I don't even know how that would work. Actually, we just couldn't do it. Oh, good. We're, we're on the, we're on the same page. I would totally do. I've, I've done web-based since I started. Um, I did a paper at one time converting paper over into the. I'm a secret paper fan. Do you know when I first started Jane? And for actually many years after I had a paper planner, like I had a, you know, like a planner, a moleskin planner, which I loved so much.

And I, my meeting notes would be on one side and my, my day. And eventually, um, my co-founder Trevor told me I couldn't have paper anymore. I was going to leave. And then now I have so many meetings that are coordinated that I have to be on, on an electronic calendar. I gave in. I think that's needed for, at least for that, but still brainstorming on paper, right? But yeah. And I, I think online booking and electronic charity, I mean, you have to be using, I think in the U S too, people, most people are moving from software to software. So there's also change changes, hard changes, really hard for people and scary.

I think the unknown is scary. So moving from a legacy software, there's going to be, there's, it's going to be challenging. Like there's going to be new things that you have to learn. And if you're not, if you're not comfortable with technology, I think that can also create a hurdle. Yeah. Well, I know that if I was starting out again, probably the scariest thing in the world would be thinking, I got to pay five to 10 grand for entry level software. Yeah. That's, we don't do that. I know that was shocking to me about that too. And people charge for support, which I find shocking. Yeah. Well, my, you mentioned the updates, my dad has to pay every year for updates.

And so he finally, like, they would tell him, here's where I get update. And so he's really low tech. Like he can't like during growing up, we'd have to put the DVD in the DVD player for him because he couldn't figure it out. And so he's like, I've stopped, stopped paying for updates. And he's like, cause every time I pay the thing doesn't work. Yeah. Or you have to learn something new. Yeah. So, so I, so tell us about the Jane plans. Um, what's available. The plans for the future. Uh, yeah, that, and well, that, and what can, this is the sales time. I want everyone to know what they can possibly get from Jane.

You're not part of the sales team. Um, I, you know, it started with just two of us. I was the entire sales team. I just don't know that I'm a really good salesperson because, um, I don't know. We're just, we just really want it to be a good fit for you. So we're like, come and check it out and learn about us. And if you think we're going to be a good fit and you want to join the community and be part of Jane's story, we'd love to have you. But there's so much, so, so much, um, that we're doing that we're going to be adding to Jane and we're super excited about it. Um, ratings and reviews is about to come out.

So that's going to be, we're going to do a new, um, a new section to Jane that we really started on the practitioner experience. We wanted it to be easy for you to use Jane. We wanted you to be able to, you know, actually enjoy using Jane and not, um, dread using software, which, uh, is a challenge. Um, so we started on the practitioner experience and wanted it to be easy for you to get your data in. We wanted it to be easy for your patients to book online. It was basically, if you can book an appointment, take a payment, um, create a chart note, and you do that many times a day. And that can be simple and easy.

And now we get to play with some more, some other features around that. So ratings and reviews is our first foray into this kind of reputation management. So you, people will be able to leave a review for you and give you feedback on how they felt your treatment went. I took my son to the physio the other day for his arm. He had a baseball injury, um, from pitching and it was so interesting because I had this great experience, but I didn't have any easy avenue to provide feedback about that. And I could have never come back and he would have never known how I felt about that treatment. And so the ratings and reviews has two sections.

One is it gives you all feedback. They rate you on one to five and give written feedback. And that goes into this really lovely report that I'm obsessed with because I'm very visual and it, it shows you how many five stars, four stars, three stars, two stars, and it gives you the feedback from the person. It's beautiful. And then the second part is they leave a five-star review there. It prompts them. If you want, um, you can prompt them to leave a review on Google or wherever. So it's going to be helpful in that capacity. That's, I think one of my favorite new features that's about to come out.

Um, but we're launching and then phrases just came out. We're launching about six or seven new features in the next six months. And there's going to be a demo day in August. So that'll have already happened, but we'll have a recording of it by the time this, um, this podcast is published. And so we're going to do a demo day when we were supposed to be having our, our in-person conference and we're going to demo all the new features. Okay. So I, um, I'll see if I can send me, um, or I'm sure I'll get an alert through the emails. I'll, I'll see if I can share that with, uh, there's not an easy way to share it with the listenership, I guess, unless they hear it and they go to the show notes, but I can, uh, I can post it on our Instagram or something.

I think it'll be great. Um, you can learn, and we just launched an integration with a website company too, that they, um, they're creating something called Jane blocks. So, you know, keeping your website and Jane up to date can be a challenge with your staffing, your bios, your pricing, location information, like you update it in one place and then you have to update it in the second place, talking about changing the photo size on your website and how that makes you want to die. Um, so the plan here was, we're always trying to be helpful. And I was like, this is something that would be helpful.

And so if you update information in Jane, it will sync to your marketing website. If you use this company's website builder tool. So I think your addition to the reviews is actually, I was, it's something I was, I was, it's been on the back of my mind just because we're, we're obsessed with, with asking for reviews and, uh, we know how challenging it is to get reviews. But, um, I remember I had this old software. It was an old, it was an old with our old EHR and, um, it didn't have online booking capability. And so we had to patch in another software, which was just an online scheduler, but it automatically asked for reviews.

And so by the time I had been on there, like, like four or five years, I had like 155 star reviews and I couldn't take them with me. But it was nice that when people went through and they're like, they're like, I don't know who this guy is. I'm going to go through and maybe book an appointment. Oh, there's 155 star reviews. It's, I see it as a sales page, um, you know, creating some, uh, validation that they make in the right choice. Um, because actually that site had more five-star reviews than Google, Facebook, Yelp. I know Yelp, uh, tends to put it right on the booking page. They did. Yeah.

Cause at that point I kind of see it as like the patient is like, they made a choice. They're going to go forward. They're probably going to book, but Ooh, now they got to put their credit card in or, you know, but so there's a little more validation. Um, so that's, that's something that was, I haven't actually took, I don't know if you've seen them. If you go onto my booking page, you'll see I've actually physically pasted in a five-star review because I want, I want to make sure everyone knows that, you know, the ratings are good or I want to invite them to see our reviews. So there's, it's funny.

It depends again, this is, it depends on the discipline and the geography. Some people are not allowed to solicit reviews or publish reviews, um, based on our college, um, bylaws. So yeah, it's just so fascinating. You wouldn't, you would never, there's so many things that are, um, consistent across practices in some way, things that are different. It's, it's great. I love it. So we have to create, um, a way for everyone to experience exactly the way they want. We, our goal is always that you feel like Jane has built it exactly for you, but it does require that. Now you're making me move. And no, I saw you moving.

I'm not stretching too. I'm going to do it. I, I, I do have a like chronic shoulder blade issue that, um, is always too tight. I've been trying to work out in the mornings though, before I start my day now. Because, because of the shoulder blade. No, just fitting in because every day is, it's so busy. It's hard. It's hard to fit light in sometimes. I'm going to email you, uh, an exercise for that shoulder blade, by the way, just to. I'm supposed to do doorway stretches. I got some, I got something different. I got something. Yeah. Okay. I got a, I got a possible magic bullet that if it works, it'll blow your mind.

If not, you're going to think that was a waste of time. That's fine too. And, uh, but it works on half the people that do it. Okay. I'm going to do it and then I'm going to leave you a five-star review. You'll be the first one. It's going to be great. And then I'm going to refer 10 people. I like it. That's, that's it. I don't know how you, uh, I don't know how that would be patched into Jane. I know. So I was thinking about this too, because I joke that we, we don't have salespeople. Like we just, we don't, we don't do ill-bound sales. Um, we're not growing that way. I always say we grow the same way our, our, our practitioners do is we provide a great service.

Uh, and then we, people talk about it to their friends. So I'm like, that's our growth strategy. Which is very difficult to affect that. I can't make people talk more about us really, you know? Um, and so when people sign up, I'm like, oh, we had, you know, 50 clinics signed up today. That's, we hired 50 salespeople today. That's what we did by having 50 clinics sign up. But then I'm like, but how do I ask people nicely? Okay. Now tell people about us in a way that doesn't feel weird. It's a real challenge. So we're starting like, so I do, would you want Jane swag? Like, would you want to wear a Jane hat or t-shirt?

Do you care about something? I don't know. I don't know if it would. I probably wouldn't. I wear the same shirt here like five days a week because. I'll tell you where you're a shirt. Yeah. It's, I mean, I don't think I, I don't think I would personally. And there's not really a financial incentive. This is totally off topic for everyone listening. They probably don't want to talk about growing Jane as a business, but I think it's such an interesting, although it's kind of like growing your practice. I think you'd have to, I remember that. So every, every time I've gone to like, say a, it's usually like a fitness workshop or something, which I don't know about the chiropractic one's a little bit different because people tend to wear their own stuff.

It seems like, but I remember looking around and seeing that people wear like a perform better shirt or a, like they kind of, it's like they drag this thing out of their closet and say, I'm going to wear this to this workshop and I'm going to sweat a little bit. And that shirt is perfect for it. But so I guess my, my thought is that if I wore Jane's swag, I'd have to be at a place where other chiropractors are. And most, like you said earlier, most chiropractors or PTs, they just kind of hang out in their office. They don't really go. And then they're scared. They're scared of the competition.

We're not a very social bunch. Well, it's more just like having a cool hoodie that you just could wear, you know, less about advertising Jane, more about saying thank you. Cause it's really, I just want to say thank you. When people refer, I just, it's more about saying thank you than incentivizing them to do it. You know? Well, I know that you guys did something that was like unique that I thought like only or one other company did this, did this for, for us in, uh, during, uh, the challenging COVID times was that you guys created like a, what was it like? It was like a, a discounted for a couple months or you gave money back or something like that.

Um, a bursary program. So if people were struggling, they could apply for the bursary. Yeah. And for, to me, that said that you guys cared. And so there was, I had my work as comp insurance also, they offered, I think it was like $5 billion to all, like they created a fund where they said $5 billion. It was a lot. Yeah. Our bursary was not $5 billion. No, no, no. It wasn't that much. Um, even, even, uh, my malpractice care, NCMIC, they, they, they emailed you and said, Hey, you're, you're, if you had decreased work hours, apply for some relief. Um, I called my, my, um, uh, I tried to call my, uh, yeah, website service here or the, uh, like your internet, they wouldn't even pick up the phone, you know, and you know, they got billions of dollars.

And so I was like, I actually called a different company, tried to switch because I was so irritated that they just wouldn't even, wouldn't even care, you know, and that you mentioned the same thing about your landlord, you know, it's just the irritation of this is that we're all in this kind of problem together. Well, and that's, I, yeah, I think it's, it is interesting. I'm like, I said, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, the first customer of Jane. Like I am the customer. I'm my, our experiences are similar. So it's not, those things don't seem hard to do, you know, when it's just like, well, we're, everyone's struggling.

Like we, yeah, we, you don't expect a pandemic. No one really plans for the entire world to shut down. So everyone's just doing what they can. And I said to a lot of people, like, no, one's going to be made whole through this. Like everyone's going to come out with some losses. So our countries have deficits. We're going to come out with some debt. My clinic's coming out with some debt that I'm going to have to figure out how to pay off over the next few years. That's what this is. So that's okay. That's okay. We're all in it though. We're all in it. I mean, just levels, but yeah. At the end of the day, we just all got better at telehealth really.

We all, exactly. And there's many advancements and we got EA sports sound for TV. That's going to be, it's like the laugh track, the new laugh track of online sporting events. Oh, I've heard. Yeah. It's like, we're going to have John Madden doing his thing all over again, just like in NFL Madden 95. Oh, wait. I think I know that game. Yeah. The right sweep always worked. You just do a beeline to the touchdown. No, I play sports video games. I'm really good at Donkey Kong and Super Mario though. I can beat all the bosses. Oh yeah. Does someone have to get you to the bosses though? No. What? That's insulting.

Take that back. That's one of my biggest moments of pride as a parent was when my kids called me to beat the boss on their video game. I'm like, oh, I got this. I'm here. Your mother will help you. Then congrats. That is a big deal. And that skillset never really goes away. You always kind of remember how you got to beat that boss. Exactly. It's a strategy. You know, it's brilliant. Actually, it's very, it is good learning technology through games. I'm really interested in the idea of gamifying something in Jane. I just want it to be fun to use. You know, what could we do to make it really fun?

Were you badges or, you know, you were an Eagle Scout, weren't you? It was. Yeah. Look at it. I did my research. Yeah, you have. I see. Yeah, you've done a lot of research. You're good at this. Yeah. I maxed out my badges on Boy Scouts. Oh, you were that kind of Eagle Scout. Did you, did you get, so I was in Brownies. I don't know how this works in Scouts. Do you get actual badges that you sell on something? You got, yeah, you got a sash. Oh, a sash. It's a sash. I have a picture of my office. It's in the front. I firmly believe I should have named the practice Eagle Scout Chiropractic because everyone trusts an Eagle Scout.

Sure, that's true. Do you have a thing like a, what's your, do you have, that's not a mantra, but you have a saying that you have to say as a, always be prepared. Is that Eagle, so that's Boy Scouts. Yeah, it was, yeah, be prepared. Well, and there was a, there was another thing, which you had a coin that you put in your other pocket after you, on it, it says, do a good turn daily and you move the coin to the other pocket. Oh, I want a motivational speaker to talk about that, but he did not say it was an Eagle Scout thing. Yeah. Maybe Eagle Scouts took it from something else. Or it was a Boy Scouts might take it from something else.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't from this guy. I don't think he made it. So what do you think from being from Eagle Scouts is that, that's transferred into your adult life, obviously. Well, I think that I started to appreciate it more later, you know, as like, it's, it's kind of like when you, when you go through the grind, it's like, you're like, this kind of sucks. You know, they're, they want you to wear your, your thing to school. And it's like, it's not popular. No, the, the, the shirt, you know, really? Yeah. They, they encouraged it, you know, but then they had someone to drop out where they're like, cause like, can you imagine a high schooler wearing their Boy Scout thing to school and so, uh, yeah, it's just, it's not the most popular thing to do.

And so during it is, I mean, it's having, you have fun during which, and you have, you know, fun learning all these little things to do, but there's definitely ones where it was like, um, it was citizen in community, citizen in world. There was these badges that they were mandatory. They just sucked, you know? You didn't enjoy them. Yeah. I didn't enjoy them. You had to get them though. But, um, yeah, I think it's, I think everybody needs a little bit of, uh, adversity and hard work to become developed. And so I think it was a helpful thing. And you were motivated by getting the badges. You worked hard to get them.

Um, yeah, well, I was, I was kind of at the point where I was like, I've come this far. I just need to finish. Um, but it was, it was all through my upbringing, like as, as, as young as I can recall, like we were in, we were the blue boy, uh, Cub Scout ones. And so we were probably eight, you know, so I was in there for 10 years. Um, in Brownies, you had a book. And there's all the different badges you could get. And you had a sash and you had to like check off tasks. And if you did the whole thing, you would get the little badge and then you'd sew it onto your sash. So I was very motivated by badges.

Same with like swimming lessons. I just wanted to get the badge. I wanted to pass to get that. For whatever reason, it's like a big part of what motivated me in life. Gold stars. The gold star motivation is a real thing. I know. And I am really works on me. What does that say about my psychology? I don't know. I'm rewards driven. I don't know. That's yeah. I don't know. Well, so now that everybody gets, uh, rewards for participation, does that water down? I do not really agree with participation awards though. I do think that you should have to, you know, do something to earn it. Otherwise it just do values.

I think there's a, there's a place for participation awards, but in general, I like the ones you have to work for. Although my throat, I always tell this, like we, we came second place. Jane entered this competition five years ago. Um, because there was a cash prize and I was like, great, let's do it. If we can get cash to help grow Jane, that's going to be amazing. And we came second in the competition. And so there's all these rounds. It's actually, it's hard to, to come second, but to this day, I like, I look up the company that came first and I'm determined to beat them. It's like, I'm obsessed about this company that we're going to be better than them because the judges have no idea what they're talking about.

And clearly we should have come first. And I can't even enjoy that we became second, but I also appreciate coming second because it makes you work harder. You're like, you just work so hard if you come second. So I like, I like coming second. There's a lot of motivation in not being first and just trailing. You can so much motivation and not being first. And I feel like that too, actually, like at Jane, we're always looking at everyone else and we're like, Oh, we need to improve. We need to improve here. And we need to improve here. And so all I ever see is the places we need to improve. So it's hard.

I don't celebrate, I don't celebrate success enough. And my poor team, I'm always like, great. What's next? Great. Moving on. Great. Let's make something new. Let's, let's get better. So I have like low anxiety all the time that we're not good enough. Well, as we, as we kind of, I don't remember if it was on or off air, but we talked about the, uh, um, just complicated versus simple. But, um, I think I know that I'm only one practice, but the, you have a, yeah, a lot of stuff on here, which is useful. And, uh, I don't know if you have to make any more, but I'll, I'll, I'll probably give you this, just that review suggestion again is the hardest thing.

I'm sure you remember when you first started, the hardest thing is getting somebody to trust you enough to come in. And so the sales part is if you kind of take that fear or make, make the software help to sell the provider even more. Yeah. I, I bet that's a, such a big value because there's so many things in the back end here. I'm looking at that. It's just, it's insane. Like I probably won't use all these features. I don't even know what they are. You should use them though. It's like the unscheduled patient report you just found that tells people who aren't booked in. The thing about all these features is they're amazingly helpful for your practice.

And so what I want to make sure people are doing, I want it to continue to feel simple, but I want you to be educated on what's available to you because things like some people don't even know we have text reminders. Yeah, I see that. Please use the text reminders. They're very helpful to your practice. They're reduced, going to reduce no shows. Like just use them. They're great. They're amazing. Everyone should be using them. And the unscheduled patient report, you can see who didn't book in this week that was supposed to book in. Let me just send them a reminder right here by pushing this button that it's time to, you know, oh, and you can leave a custom note.

Even you can say, Hey, Jim, like you're, you know, I know you didn't have time to book your appointment on your way out and you're going to look at your schedule. I noticed you haven't had time to book in yet, but you know, for whatever your care plan, it would be really amazing. If you want to come in next week, here's a link to the online booking. Come on. I know I got to spend, I need a little bit. Good thing California shut down at this time. So if I could, if they just shut down my office, I can, I'm going to spend a whole day on Jane and figure out all these features. It'll be the most useful thing ever.

And then you can go on that Jane app forum and just ask people how they're doing it. And then you can just learn from them too. And on our help. I know this is, it's so challenging. We want to be powerful and we want to be simple at the same time. So it's a real balance of finding both. So this is the other thing. Then I think if we're building more features, we should make them all additional add ons. You pay more, but you're going to want to use them. So you agree with the strategy? Cause I also don't want to look like we're trying to be greedy, which we're, it's really just like, I want, I want these to be things that people use cause they want to use them.

They see value in them. I don't want it to complicate the product. Yeah. I think it's a good idea. Cause with, I mean, some people might not use, uh, some people are cash patients, you know, they are cash and they don't want, they don't want to use insurance or. So we do have that already. You have a, there's an insurance version and a non-insurance version. That's the, probably the easiest example, but, um, you know, telehealth, another one. Um, see, we just added it. I always want to add everything for free, but then it gets too complicated. Well, I think this, this would sound, I don't know if this is, this is just me spitballing.

Let's just say if there's a very raw, basic online scheduler, no EHR, right? That's 20 bucks a month. Let's just say, let's make an example, I think you'll capture enough people with how easy it is to do the EHR, but they're like, you know what? Screw it. I like doing paper notes, you know? And I know that like, kind of like patching it together of just kind of like picking what you want might not be a bad idea. Cause I think you'll get more people in the beginning, um, especially as they're entering into practice. And I think of it kind of like, remember when there was Showtime, HBO, like on your cable TV and you're like, but you would always just choose a few things.

It's like, imagine if you said to your patients, okay, we'll do spinal manip is this much. And then if you want to add exercises, we'll do this. And if you want to add modalities, it's going to be an extra this. They're just going to be like, you know what? I'll just do this spinal manip, even though it would be better for them to do all of it. You can't, but if you give them a choice, they're just going to be like, oh, I'll just, I'll save the money. It's not better for them though. I think that, I think if I went through the Jane demo though, I would see that that's not that, that you're, that you're right.

I need the other stuff, but only, only one, like we have three times the signups to the demos that we do. But most people sign up without ever doing a demo. We don't even get the chance to talk to them. I think we need to make the onboarding. Anyway, there's a billion things I want to do better, but people are very happy with Jane. Like in general, every, people refer it to other people and it's a, it's a fantastic complete product. It's just, I'm, I personally, it's like, I always want it to be better. I feel like I'm making it sound awful on this one. Like it's really actually great. If it, if it's going well, don't change anything.

I know that I've already introduced the podcast with, um, I've spent 12 years in practice. This is the best EHR I've ever used. It's, it's, it's seamless. Yeah. So I, I should just let you talk about Jane. Don't let me talk about Jane. I'm just not going to tell it very well. Okay. Everybody, you should get Jane. Like I mentioned that this isn't, it's not a paid podcast. I asked you to be on. And, uh, cause I, cause, uh, the, you know, like I, like I have a, I've, I've had more interns over the years come through and like, they've gotten a chance to play with Jane. They've gotten a chance to, you know, play with stuff at their other, uh, internships office.

And, and like, they'll ask me about like, Hey, how do you think I should go rent a room? Hey, what do you think I should do about malpractice insurance and the EHRs and so on? And I'm like, I might as well just the podcast you about it. But yeah, I, if I had to do it again, I would pick Jane. Like you don't want to switch it. You don't want to switch later. And all the rest of this whole thing, you can just, just put that. But I do know a couple people who are, especially when they're, they, they graduated during this COVID time and they're scared about pricing. And so there are certain aspects that like, let's say, uh, you talk to one of them and say, Hey, bare bones, what do you need?

Cause I know you're going to keep your, Jane's going to keep them later as a client. It's just, it's like right now they're, they're using a paper notebook and then they're doing Google sheets as like notes, you know, I mean, as far as pricing is concerned, we're actually already one of the most affordable options. And there's a, they say in software that your product will outpace your pricing. So if you keep adding to it and I never want to increase Jane's base price. So I think I'm getting more comfortable with the idea of having these, these like build your own, like with modules. So the ratings and reviews is going to be like a growth module.

Not everyone's going to want it. Um, actually some people actively do not want it cause they're not allowed to solicit reviews. So we'll have, we'll have those as a separate add ons. So yeah, it's, it's interesting. It's, this is the most fun job I've ever had. Like it's so fun. You're just figuring it's like just constant problem solving and adding and team build, like building a team and building a company and building a product. It's just so eternally interesting. So. Yeah. I'm glad you're doing it. Not me. I don't think I would enjoy it. I'd poke mine out. I think you would cause you're a learner.

Yeah, I know. But the, the computer tech aspect, I like hands-on. I really like hands-on. Yeah. You would. Yes. And I think it most practitioners, it's very few practitioners that could handle having a job away from people. That's for sure. And you like probably seeing those instant and just helping people, you know, I love hearing people's practitioner stories, why they got into it, what they love about it, but we don't have time. I'm sure to talk about it. I should have you, I should start a podcast and I'll have you on my podcast. Oh, you know, you should do the Jane community podcast. This, all the Jane people stories.

I, I have, I just, yeah, I think that'd be so fun and interesting. It'd be interesting for me to hear other people's stories. I don't know if other people would want to listen to that. Yeah, I bet they would. I think human interest is a, I know there's a podcast I listen to called a beautiful anonymous. It's literally, they're talking about not much at all and they don't know who each other are. Sorry. They don't know who the guest is. Um, and cause it's anonymous. And so they just share and talk for an hour and after the hour, uh, it hangs up on them. No, never to be heard from again. And it's just interesting to like the, you know, ends and outs of people's lives.

And when it's anonymous, they really share a lot of stuff. So beautiful anonymous, beautiful anonymous. I'm listening to that Harvard business review podcast right now and one called masters of scale, but I want a more human interest kind of one. I like this one. It's pretty comical, but it's, it's a, for a long car drive, it's definitely useful. I, it's for running. I get very, very bored running. Very bored. Um, I don't know how runners run. I don't know how ultra marathoners do it without losing their mind. Um, even though I live in Vancouver and I have like beautiful scenery, but I need podcasts.

Okay. I'm going to look it up. You'll like that one. Um, any, any, any, anything you want to add before we, um, close up? Um, I just would encourage people to talk to our team if they're interested in Jane, don't listen to me, talk to our team, go do a demo, check out our website. There's some really great, easy videos on there. And then, um, and congrats. I want to congratulate your listeners, all of them for doing it, doing the small business thing, doing the practitioner thing. It is, uh, it is a challenge and it is also really, really amazing at the same time, both things. It's like parenting.

You know, you're going to, you'll, it's amazing. It's, it's an interesting challenge. So thanks for, um, spending some time with me today. I appreciate it. Thank you for being on. Alison, thanks for being on the show. It was a pleasure talking to you and meeting you and talking about EA sports. Uh, everybody again, uh, I think Jane is a really easy solution to a lot of the headaches that you might be having in your practice. And so I'm, they're not, they're, they're not telling me to say this. This is just something I truly do believe. And I've had EHRs, I've tried to half acid, I've tried to keep under the radar in regards to keeping cost low and everything, but Jane is really comprehensive and it's super easy.

And especially if you're doing things like telehealth, um, it automatically generates, uh, the 1500 codes so that you change the location 24 B to, I think it's a number two. And so there's, we can still supply a lot of our patients with super bills and even bill insurance companies for a lot of those telehealth sessions too. So I think you guys should investigate it, keep all your stuff in one spot, keep your ledgers in one spot, uh, at least for telehealth, you can charge on there. You don't have to do all this funny stuff like go through Venmo and PayPal and Calendly and all these other things that I've, I definitely, I've done this stuff before too.

And so, uh, I really encourage you guys to keep it all in one place. And if you're willing to, to put out some money early on when you're in practice, when you get into practice, if you're not in practice yet, Jane's a good place to start. Their pricing is pretty darn good, especially when you think about those ones that cost thousands of dollars to get started. Keep your costs low. You know, um, I think you're gonna be happy with what you get. So reach out to them. There's some links in the show notes for if you guys are interested, but again, I don't want it to seem like a sales email. I truly do believe that Jane is a really a valuable asset to our profession.

Uh, and you're going to be missing out on some easy wins if you don't at least investigate it. So I'll talk to you guys in, uh, I think two weeks maybe, but go through the old show, uh, all the old shows and learn from the stuff that we did before. And don't worry, pretty soon we'll be back to once every week. Uh, just let me get ahead on a couple of things. See you guys soon.