First-Year Practice Lessons for New Chiropractors and Clinicians

And so at that point I realized, I said, look, okay, whatever you have, anything, okay, you think your farts are contributing to your low back pain or to your foot pain, you talk to me first, all right? You think that your loss of vision has anything to do with like your hand getting numb, you talk to me first. And so I will tell you if I think I can help you or not, and I will tell you where I think you should go, and I would like to be your quarterback. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone, it's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the Movement Movement. This is your first time in the podcast. Welcome. This is about in a 45-minute to hour-long format of, I'd love to say it's only clinician-based or if it's only patient-based, but realistically, it kind of blends the line between both, I think. When we go over clinical topics, such as what is a hip flexor or what is the reason for hip pain, we kind of talk about it in general terms as well as clinical ones and try to clean them up.

I like to think of it kind of like we're all at a bar having a beer. There's three of us. Two of us are clinicians. One of them's, I'm going to say, a lighting technician. And so we just kind of speak a different language. And so the idea is just to get us all kind of on the same page here. Some of these podcasts are more intended for actually for more clinicians to improve their business and their clinical skills. So if you are a general population listener, I commend you, first off, for learning more about your body and how things work because not everyone's really interested. But for the most part, this one's going to be a little bit more targeted at trying to help some of our clinicians who are really good clinicians to see more people.

It's a really common thing in our profession. I'm sure chiropractic, massage, personal training, God, I'm forgetting all the professions this morning, physical therapists and so on. It's really common for the really good people to be really bad at business or bad at getting people to come see them. They're really bad at conveying their message. And so as it kind of goes, I know that when I was first gotten to practice, I spent the first five years or so learning how to get people in the door. And then I spent the next five years learning how to improve my skills. And it's kind of shitty that it's that way, but it really, they suck time away from another unless you're just a complete hustler and you could do both.

And so today's podcast is going to be my story of my first year of practice and, or at least let's even consider first couple months and what things were like back then. I'm hoping that, I'm hoping it helps you, the young clinician to understand where, like what you got to do and where other people have been. I'm not going to say that my, that my road has been the best road, but hopefully my stories are helpful to you. Now, if this is your first time in the podcast, remember, um, there are other, uh, there are other way, a lot of other episodes way back in the archives. And I think this is around 160 something right now.

And, uh, I know that the first, you should go back and listen to the first episode. They're terrible. I think, I think it really started to get much better around like around 30 or 40. So, um, listen to some of those back there. And even, I think my favorite ones are around the, uh, seventies to seventies and up. Not that the ones below are bad. It's just, I think my interview skills got better. And I think I curated the topics a little bit better, but I've interviewed some really great people. Um, some quote unquote industry professionals, and I've learned a lot from them and I've become a better clinician throughout the duration of, of doing this podcast.

And I think my communication skills are getting better too, hopefully. So, um, allow me to take you first through the, um, uh, usually in each podcast, I share a little bit about myself via personal story, um, just so you guys can get to know your host and hopefully like your host. And then, um, uh, and then I'll go right into the content. So here we go with that story. So I don't know if you know, actually, uh, I owned a coffee roasting company for a couple of years. And so I become quite a bit of a coffee snob. And so I'll just share a real quick story about, um, some of the coffee I still source.

Um, I don't sell it. I just, um, give it at cost to people. And so I just pick up 80 pounds at a time or so. And so one of my friends, uh, had his, his buddies come in from the East coast. And so he was serving him some of the coffee and so on. And so this guy picks up this coffee. And so he's like, dude, this stuff, where did you get this stuff? This is the best coffee I've ever had. And so, uh, this is the interaction they had. And so we met, um, for dinner that night. And so, uh, my friend's like, Hey, uh, this is the guy that made that, uh, had that coffee. He's like, dude, where did you get that coffee?

Like, I've never had coffee so good in my entire life. Like I've had coffee. I've been drinking coffee for years, but I've never had anything like that. Where did you get that? It was, it was kind of funny. So, um, I'm actually surprised how many people that I've met who have never really had a true coffee experience. And so part of our thing with, uh, it was compliment coffee, uh, was to, um, get people to experience good coffee as well as bad. And so bad coffee is typically what everybody drinks. Um, actually I don't want to say bad coffee. It's just sooty. All right. It's burnt. It's actually 25% charcoal, uh, actually by definition.

Um, because when there's oil on the outside of the bean, if you go in and look at the coffee shop, you look at the hopper, which is where all the beans are at. Uh, if they have oil in there and they're shimmering, it's actually not, it's, it is a dark roast, but actually it's 25% charcoal, literally. Okay. And so when I go into coffee shops, I look around and I said, look, um, okay, let's look at the hopper. And so is it greasy? Are the beans, do the beans have a shimmer on it? No, they don't. Cool. I'll try it. Okay. And so, um, that is probably the first, uh, the first thing I tell people when they ask about, wow, that coffee is really better.

It's like, well, don't get your dark roast. Okay. Get something that is naturally processed. If you have not had this before, get an Ethiopian naturally processed coffee, light roast. Okay. Natural is where they dry the coffee fruit, cherry around the bean in the sun prior to shucking it. The mechanical stuff, or I think they call it semi-washed is they, they take the coffee, um, they take the coffee cherry off of the bean prior to drying the bean. And so the naturally processed ones, they taste so good. They taste like, and unlike any coffee you've ever had. And there's notes of different, actually these floral fruits in there.

It's not a verbarian, like you're drinking like, you know, a cup of, um, you know, uh, cough syrup or anything. It's just different and it's clean. You don't have coffee breath, coffee breath after, and it's, you don't add anything to it. It's amazing. So if you haven't had that experience yet, I strongly suggest try it. Naturally processed Ethiopian coffee, mainly because in Ethiopia, they typically do a lot of them more natural. Other places they have different, uh, harvesting and, um, processing styles. And it's a little bit harder to find those ones. So naturally processed, each Ethiopian coffee, light roast, give it a go.

So my first year of practice, actually, um, when I first started, I actually, I was, I actually first worked at a, uh, chiropractor's office before I even started school. Uh, and it was probably, this is the story that a lot of you will have is they, they kind of get interested by doing things like that. And then they, um, go into school and then they come out and that doc's kind of like one of their mentors. And so when, um, when I was in school, I, I continued to work at this place one day a week, uh, just for a couple hours. And then when I finally got out of school or when I was exiting school, I also did my, my internship there, my PPR and, uh, my post scepter there.

And so through the post scepter, it's, it's funny. I think a lot of us think that we're going to get busy all, all of a sudden. And I didn't, uh, certainly not. And, uh, I think I graduated in December of 2008 and I didn't get my license until I want to say around February or so. And so it was, there's this limbo period that I think that everybody, if they're not in there already or they never experienced it, there's this limbo period where technically you're done with school and, um, you could work on people if you're under someone else's license, but you can't really call yourself a quote unquote doctor.

And so, um, when you're going out to meet people, it's like, oh, cool. So you must be, uh, like, are you a doctor? Are you a chiropractor? Are you a whatever? I'm sure PTs have this too. Are you a PT? You're like, well, I'm a, I forget what they call them. It's a, it's like a post scepter, a clinical blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And so you got to do this long thing. It's almost not even worth making a business card just because you're only going to have it for two months. And so, um, when I first did that, it was, I really wanted to get going. Like the first two months where I didn't have a license, I just want, really want to go out and just meet people, uh, and get them interested in coming in.

I don't actually recall if I had the mindset of just, uh, building trust with people or not, uh, you know, as a, as a first go versus just trying to sell them and get them in the door, um, and starting to work on them. But I knew I had a two month window of really not doing a lot. During that time, I, um, I was not able to actually join any groups, uh, because, or say like BNI, Business Network International, uh, which I did have my eye on. I really wanted to join because I'd heard things, uh, good things about it. But, uh, the local group around there, obviously they need to verify that you're a licensed professional and I wasn't.

And so I think within the first week of being licensed, I actually got into one of them. So it was, uh, it was, it didn't take me too long to actually do that. Um, but during that first month of time, I continued to work on my website, which I'd already started doing when I was in term seven and actually a lot of the videos that I produced back then, which were videos that I showed or exercises that I showed for, for, um, people who were sent home with homework from the other clinic. And so it was kind of like a natural progression into like, I'm probably going to show these exercises too, because I've been showing them for years and, uh, and they, I trust the other doc's judgment.

I'm just going to teach them on video. And so I did, I had a bachelor's at the time. I had a CSCS at the time. Um, but I didn't have a DC or a, or a professional license to diagnose. And so I didn't see anything wrong with making these exercise videos. And so I started making them. Um, and at the bottom, you can still see that they're probably still buried in my YouTube somewhere. Um, it says, uh, BS CSCS. And so I actually, I put my name on there, but I really, once you put these YouTube videos up, you really can't go back and swap them out. At least not to my knowledge, uh, by the way, if anyone's figured that out, please tell me.

So you can't really swap them out. So they're kind of stuck there. So you can kind of see that like the progression of like, I was just trying to get my system down. I was trying to get, um, or reproduce myself as I would say now, because I feel like the way I would cue those exercises, obviously different now, but the way I showed them back then is how I would want to show them with people. And so I wanted to echo the same type of experience they would have in office with me or with the other doctor. So those videos now, I don't use them quite as much anymore, but, um, some of the ones are actually still productive, um, or not, they're not as productive actually now.

Uh, the ones that I actually produced in 2013 became really productive and they still are today. Um, in, uh, in the first few videos I did pathology wise, it was more of a educational thing where I think one was on tendonitis. And so it was really terrible. I was, I was at my apartment and you could see the background, uh, where I was at. It was actually my dining room area. And it was like this crummy cream, poor lit, like shadowy type of video. Um, and it was just me kind of talking like a talking head thing. So it was about a five, six minute video and I remember recording it and it was horribly painful.

It took so long. And even afterwards, when I look at it now, since it's still there, if you type up Sebastian tendonitis, uh, Sebastian Gonzales tendonitis, you'll probably find it on YouTube. Um, it's horrible and you can see that I was looking all different directions. I wasn't looking right at the camera. The presentation was really bad and I realized at that point that it was really, it was challenging. It was really challenging. Uh, however, the information actually in that video, um, was intended to help. It wasn't intended to draw people in necessarily. It was intended to get people to realize, um, the things they might be dealing with.

So they would then ask the person who conveyed that message, which was me. And so, um, I know that when people are, when students are exiting school or they're into their, um, into their clinical years, they tend to, uh, they, at least my interns have tended to realize that they're just kind of, they feel like they're kind of paused, you know, and they're to stand still. And so I told a couple of them, like, look, just go out there and just, just educate for the pure aspect of educating. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with a chiropractic student going to a golf club and talking about, um, this, these are the things that we learned about the spine or the hip or whatever.

Right. And so you're not pretending to actually say that you're a doctor. You're not pretending to actually work with them. You're just conveying information. And if they say, well, maybe I can go get some, can I get some help by you and say, well, you currently know you can't, but all right. Yeah. You can come see me in the student clinic, you know? So it's a solicitation of people. We're just building trust. And most of the time, um, at the first touch point, most people aren't going to want to come see you anyways. And that's how it kind of was with me. Um, so the first two months or so, I thought I was going to, you know, like get people in and see people under my PPR doctor or my postceptor.

And I didn't like, there was nobody, um, literally nobody. And I think it's, it's really, it's mind blowing and it's, uh, it's disheartening. And it's, it, it, it really, it made me realize how hard it was to get people to trust you to come in or at least to convey the right message. So I think when my first experience, when I finally went into BNI, it was, it was enlightening to see that they really corralled you into, they called it the elevator speech, where they would go around these tables and they would, um, they'd say, Hey, you got about 15 seconds or 30 seconds, say your elevator speech, which is basically, uh, say what you're, say what you're, um, uh, say what your profession is or, or say, say something which makes us want to refer to you.

Cause it basically was a group where everyone kind of referred to each other as like the only other person in the group that did that thing. And so, um, it was, it was enlightening. I'll be honest. I didn't really like it. I didn't like to stand up and talk. I didn't like any of that stuff. And actually too, I think the people, I mean, the people were nice. Um, but I think the group for me overall was kind of, um, it was unproductive for the money spent at the time. It was like $300 a year plus I think monthly dues of like, you know, 20 bucks or 30, or no, it was more than that. I think it was like 80 bucks.

I think cause every time you go, there's like a breakfast, a continental breakfast or like, you know, things and pancakes and French toast and stuff where, um, I didn't necessarily want to eat it, you know, but you still got to pay for it. Now, I, I did learn things in there. I'm not going to lie, but at the same time, um, that wasn't my target demographics at the time. And even then, like I was not very good at, at identifying who my ideal person was, but I know I didn't like working with people who, um, you know, were just generally unhealthy. And so, um, some of the people in the group were just generally unhealthy or just, um, not, not, as I say, like not grossly unhealthy or like not morbidly obese or anything.

It's just, they just weren't had, they didn't have a healthy lifestyle, you know? And so I tend to mesh very well with people who, um, you know, they expect a little bit more out of their, out of their body. They want to feel good. They like activity. They like to exercise. They like to run, they like to whatever. Right. And so, um, in my opinion, working with people like this, they're a little bit more driven to actually, um, make a change because there's another driver behind them. It's not just like, oh, someone told me I should be in better shape. So I did this and, you know, I failed at that because my back hurt, you know?

So I didn't, I didn't necessarily like working with those people as much. And mainly it was a motivational thing, nothing against the people. It's just motivationally, I didn't want to be a motivation coach either. I just wanted to make my job a little easier. And so during the same time, I think it was around, it was probably around March or so, because I think we did some stuff in the summer. Is I was actually, I was with a BNI, I was with that BNI for probably a year and a half or so before I actually decided to exit, by the way. And also too, if you are considering doing a BNI or some type of business networking group, um, they're, they have categories.

Okay. And this is an important point. And so the, just consider number one, if you're going in and someone's been in there before you, who is a chiropractor, they all know and love that chiropractor. They've been there for like five years or two years or whatever, right? It's a trust thing. And so even though you're going in, I wouldn't expect to really see anybody, um, because all those people are still sending to the other people. Like if they didn't, like I would actually be very surprised because, you know, like if, if I trusted that my friend needed to go to a doctor and I knew the other doctor better than I know you, I would send them there.

And so it's going to take a long time to overcome that trust or at least find a different, uh, um, target demographic or pathology that they're, that they're willing to send to you. Like homeboys, good with backs, you're good with feet. So, um, when I finally quit, actually it was, I was, I was irritated about it is, um, I feel like the group, because the group, the group makes more, they make more referrals for each other, the more people are in there. Obviously there's only two people, then, you know, there would only be a couple people to refer. And so they kind of, um, the kind of the rule of the game was like, if you were an insurance salesman, you couldn't say that you sold car insurance as well as life, as well as a house or whatever.

And you kind of pigeonholed into a certain area. And so for, so I was the only chiropractor, um, but they pulled in a multidisciplinary clinic and they said, oh, well, they're just doing PT. And I'm like, uh, this is kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of messed up guys. And so I just left. Um, so I would be aware of that and just make sure that, cause they do ask you beforehand, but if you try to be the nice guy, like I did, like they will run you over. And so, um, the value that I got from the group was much less because now I had to share the referrals or, um, but also to the, the people who were referring were a little bit more confused about who to refer to for what.

Cause they're like, what's the difference between you? They just don't tend to know the difference, which helped me clarify my message a little bit, but either way, um, what I did at the same time, what I was saying earlier was that I actually went to a, uh, a track group. It was a running group. And so we met over, um, one of the local, uh, uh, junior colleges and we just ran the track and there was probably, uh, let me, let me actually scale this a little bit. So in the BNI group, there was probably about 25 people, maybe 30 people. Um, in the running group, there was like under 10, like there's probably seven, eight people.

And so we ran the track. We met there, uh, two days a week. Um, I sometimes only went one and I think I ran with that group for probably about six months or so, you know, like, um, at the time, like I, I didn't, I don't think running was my first choice. Like I, like I do enjoy getting out and moving and I like sprinting, which is why I looked first at the track group, but we went a little bit further in distance and I didn't really necessarily enjoy that, but I enjoyed the people. Um, and so from this one group at the end of the year, I did a rough tally of, of what I made per group. And so, um, the first year I think I made, uh, you know, 3000, $4,000 for BNI and I made the same amount for running, the running group.

And I think the difference though, if we consider the, the impact on me, one is way closer to my house. Okay. Which was a running group. The running group also too, I enjoyed going and the people I saw at the group, actually, there's still, some of them are still friends today. Uh, and they continue to refer people even now. Um, I was getting in better shape. I was health conscious. I was outside. I was overall, like I'd say generally a healthier, like BNI, I would drive 30 minutes to go there and it was in an area that, um, it was kind of like in the hotel, like banquet hall kind of thing. Um, you were kind of like forced a little bit more into what you're like to refer people, which was a lot of pressure.

Um, especially if you're brand new and you don't trust these people, they really want you to refer to these people and you just don't know them yet. It's kind of like they don't know you. Um, we were eating unhealthy food and we were kind of around people that just were just not as, uh, health minded. And so, um, I kind of think there's a, you know, you're, you're kind of a reflection or a, uh, you're, you're a mishmash of the people you hang out with the most. And so if you hang out with a bunch of people who have bad habits, you're probably going to have them too. I thought that there was a Ted talk years ago where they talked about the, uh, you know, the, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, contagiousness of obesity and how people five to six people removed from your actual immediate group of friends actually have an impact on, uh, if you become obese or not, because they have friends who have bad habits who implement their bad habits, which eventually trace onto you.

And so I think at the end of the day, um, I would have easily done the running group over and over again. And as I mentioned with, uh, we talked, I talked to Kyle Hemsley, one of my interns on the podcast a few weeks ago. Um, and he mentioned meetup groups and I thought that would be a good idea. I'm thinking about doing it again, you know, and, uh, I think I, I, looking back, I think I shouldn't have been as, um, irritated about another profession coming in. I felt betrayed by the group, um, which was one thing, but at the same time, I think there's enough problems and referrals for people to go around.

And so locally anymore, like I'm not, I'm not afraid of local competition. Uh, even some of the interns I've, I've mentioned, if they'd like to stay here and run a room for me, they can. Uh, and I'm not, and I don't think we're going to run each other out, even if we're under like the same type of, uh, demographic. So I think if I had to do all this over again, this whole BNI and this running thing, I would, I would easily do meetup. Okay. Or something similar. Um, so during that time as well, uh, I, a couple of the struggles that I was having was that, um, uh, actually why I, you know, I should probably start off with who was my first patient?

Because I think, um, uh, I've had some interns ask me, you know, how'd you get your first patient and so on. And actually the first person I ever had was, um, it was, it was one of my coworkers. And so, um, at the time the, the guy who was working with me in, in that office, uh, he didn't work for me, but he worked for the other guy. And so the other guy, uh, he, he didn't necessarily, like he wanted to treat him, but at the same time, it's, it's, it's kind of a, like an issue to, I think to treat, it's, it's like a different, um, what do they call it? It's not a vested interest. It's like a, a dual interest kind of thing.

It's like he, his, his person didn't get injured on the job, but he, he didn't really feel comfortable a hundred percent treating him all the time. And so, um, he said, well, why don't you treat him? And I said, that sounds great. So we were buddies anyways. And so it was really easy cause we went to, we went to work on the same days. And so he just said, look, why don't you just, can you work on me and like on our break? And I said, great, cool. And so I had a back room over there, which I was running or at least trading for, for hours. That's, I'll talk about that in a second. Um, but he actually, uh, he had, he was young enough to where he had a health insurance.

And so his health insurance was pretty good and I can see him actually a little bit. And so I didn't actually know how to bill any insurances at that point. And, uh, if you've been following the podcast already or, or know me personally, I don't really, we don't do a lot of insurance billing anyways, and I still don't know that much about it. However, at the time, um, because I knew, um, some of his family had come in and they had the same policy or people who worked at that same, um, his, where his family worked, uh, I knew it was going to pay and, um, or at least beyond a reasonable doubt it was going to pay.

Cause you never really know if the insurance is going to pay. Um, but back to, back then it was, it was gamble I was willing to take. And so I saw him as much as he wanted to. And, um, later on, three months later, you have this kind of window of like a year to actually put your billions. And when I finally figured out how to bill an insurance company, uh, I did it. And then I just got a larger check. And that was a, a big surprise, um, because I hadn't been making any money really much at all. Now let's pause for a very quick break from our sponsor Pro Chiro Online CE. If you have not been to it already, that is prochironlinece.com.

It's the website created by myself, Philip Snow and Ben Ramos, all the people you know and trust, hopefully to really attack a problem that we personally had. Uh, we would go online during our birthday year or a birthday month because we needed online education hours because a lot of the workshops we've been to throughout the year didn't give CEs. They were just good workshops, good information, and they didn't need to go through the accreditation process. So we struggle every year to go through and find online hours because we've burnt all of our workshop money and we can't leave the clinic anymore.

And that's kind of all there is to it. But when you go through the online ones, if you've done it already, they're really not that great. You don't learn a lot. You don't really learn a thing. It's outdated information and it sucks. Okay. I mean that nice way. It just sucks. It's, it's a, it's a, you're, I feel like I'm literally burning my money. And so what we've attempted to know what we believe what we've done is so we've curated together some amazing presenters, Greg Lehman, James Valkersel, Cody D-Mac, which you've already heard on the podcast here, Phillips, now myself and Ben Ramos. There's other people to come on other modules and we're attacking the topics that you guys care about.

And so what we're attempting is we're trying to make the online educational platform useful. Again, we want you to learn something. So we believe that we've done that. So go through 10 minutes of every single module is free. If you don't like it, that's fine. If you do love it, buy it and get some hours. Perfect. So now let's get back to the show. And so that was my very first patient. And so that was also my first experience with, he just, he just trusted me because he knew me very well. And we worked in the same office and we kind of like, I'd already been kind of doing the things that the other doctor had been doing because I'd been through school where I was doing a post-ceptor there.

So that was, that was my very first patient. And he still refers a couple people here in and out today. And so it's that building trust thing. Now, what I mentioned earlier about the room rental was that I know it's a lot of people when they exit school, they're wondering where they should work. And I think it's really easy just to ask your person that you're doing an internship with just if they have an extra room that you can rent. And so at the time I paid a little bit more than I probably should have. It was about $1,000 and so relatively probably nowadays it's probably close to $14,000 I'm guessing when you take an account, you know, that was 10 plus years ago.

I would, I would just ask one of your, one of your doctors because most people have an extra room. And actually too, the extra rooms that I have, like I would, I would love to, to help out one of my interns just starting to practice because I know it's hard and I know there's a lot of things that they won't ask until they get there. And there's just even making this podcast, I don't really know all of the questions to ask or that you guys will ask. So I'm attempting to make them up, but, um, I would, I would suggest at that point, it's like, look, I'm, I've worked for you and under you for six months now, and I know your system in and out.

And so, um, do you think it'd be okay if I took that room for, and say like, I put my table in there, my standup table in there. I do all my own, uh, EHRs, uh, which is electronic medical, electronic medical records. I have my own computer. I do, I furnished the room myself. And so, uh, you won't have to do anything with it, but maybe I can do that in trade for doing some more, uh, work for you that I've already been doing. And so just agree on a set amount of hours a week and then agree what it equals to when it comes to rent, because at some point your time might become more useful than, than, um, actually working for that guy or that girl.

And so that's a really easy win, because I think most of the docs, if they have like a system, you know, it's, it's really hard to teach a system. It's hard to teach, um, in my office, it's really hard to teach the clinicians or the young clinicians what I expect, uh, you know, from a patient interaction and for desk work and answering phones and so on. And so at that point you become valuable, you know, um, I'd love to say that just having interns and doctors come in and shadow is useful for me, especially in the beginning, but honestly it's not, uh, it's kind of like a, like, I mean this in a nice way.

It's kind of a waste of my time, uh, just to have someone shadow one time. It's nice to meet people. I love meeting people, but from a business point of view, it's a waste of time until later when they mature and they become, um, someone who can do all the tasks that you do and you don't have to do them, which is where the value would be. And so if you go through and ask your, your, your doctors, uh, that you've been interned under, if that's possible, I bet a lot of them say yes. And so when, um, when the problem comes up, which I hope it will for all you guys is that when you are too busy to where you, it can't house both your offices, that is a good time for you to move on and actually rent your own space.

Until then, don't have your overhead high, uh, having high overhead is going to be the death of most businesses. And so I wouldn't, I wouldn't bother with that for now. In regards to scheduling, uh, I learned a lot of things the first year scheduling wise. And so, um, it was, it was like, Hey, are you free? Yes, I am. Cool. I'll be there right now, you know, in the beginning. Um, and I remember, remember this one guy, um, he called, um, at the time my, my cell phone was the office number. And by the way, uh, if this is going to be you, I'd suggest don't do it. Um, it's not, it's, it's really archaic to have landlines now, but I would buy a second cell phone line, which you can just, you can forward it right to your phone.

Um, but if it's coming to your cell phone forever, it's going to be really hard to get it off. And as you guys know, with those robo calls, like they still find my line. And so even there's even a couple of Google listings that I had to take off recently that still had my cell phone number on it. So don't do that immediately. And I would strongly suggest say if you're on Verizon, I think it's 10 bucks a month for an extra phone. Don't buy one that's a smartphone because then you're going to be required to buy data. All right. It's a mandatory data package. And so just buy like an old brick, which costs 10 bucks a month and that's it.

And you'll be set. So, um, when I, sorry, when I was first going in to the office and seeing people, I remember this one guy called myself when it was like Saturday morning, it was like, I want to say like 7am, 8am, something like that. And so the guy was like, he was in his car. I remember this. He was in his car. He was driving up to it from San Diego. He was like, Hey man, like I, like I heard getting things about you. I want to come see you. And so I'm already on my way up there. Can I just come by your office and you see me today? And I said, yeah, sure. By the way, so remember my office was about 30 minutes, 40 minutes from my house.

And so I said, yeah, sure. I'm like, how far are you from this location? And he said, oh, I'm about like an hour from there. And I said, great, cool. So I'll see there at nine or whatever it was. And so I got ready real quick and went out there, guy no showed, no called. I called him like three times, never picked up. And at that point, I realized that having same day people is really challenging. All right. I personally don't like to take them anymore. So my experience with same day people is a little bit challenging. And so I don't tend to take them much anymore because I've realized that they're typically they're, they're, they're frantic, you know, they have a problem.

They've waited to the last minute and in the, they're a little bit more emotional. And so I won't necessarily divulge all the details of these things because they're, I don't want to make sure that everything's protected. However, I remember one guy, we didn't move a lot of people for him one day. He called it like 9am. This was years and years ago. He called it 9am or so. We moved a lot of people around and we only asked him to do a couple things prior to coming in so we can accelerate the process because we were very busy and we did move people for him. And so I think he came around one o'clock or so.

And so he did not do any of those things. And we, and my front office said, oh, it's, it's, we don't, um, here's what's going to happen. And he didn't like that. And he, he got pissed and walked out. And so, um, there was somebody else who, um, they, they came in and there was a certain time block and we said, look, you got to fill out this paperwork prior to we had at that point we had PDF, uh, emailed, uh, paperwork and it came automatic and stuff. So unless they hit the spam folder, like they got it every time. And so we said, look, there's a narrow window of time right there, fill out that information and we'll see ya.

They didn't fill out the information. It took them 30 minutes to fill out the information when they got there. And then their appointment was only like 30 minutes and they got irritated too. Um, there was another time where somebody, um, or actually this has been actually a lot of times the same day. People tend to not fill out the information with, with due diligence. And so it's like, why did you come pain? What would make you feel better? You. It's like very short answers. And so it makes my history taken a little bit longer and they're just very urgent to, to get out of pain, which I understand.

But at the same time, if they had this paperwork a day ago, they could have taken some time and really filled it out and help give me the information that I needed to actually get better. And so same day people are challenging. Um, but, um, as it comes to scheduling people days in the week now, I don't, I don't see people every day. I only work three days a week. And I remember back then when I finally started to realize, um, that I was seeing, you know, say 10 people a week or something, whatever it was, I would see two people per day for five days. And it was like, they were all spread out like one at nine and one at two.

And so when I first started to really, I took the gamble and I said, uh, Hey, look, I'm only, I'm not open Wednesdays or Fridays. And they said, Oh, cool. So, uh, Thursday then I was like, wow, that was easy. You know, Hey, do you work Saturdays? No, I don't, but I'll stay open late. Oh, cool. How about six o'clock on Thursday? Oh, good. So when else is at five, perfect. Let's do that. You know? So when, when you're willing to make a little bit of a bend on staying late, which is what I do now, I'll come in early, but I'll, and I'll stay late. But by the way, if you're the early person and you're late, you'll never get that spot ever again.

Okay. Uh, cause I could have easily slept in or wrote a book or read a book or whatever. Um, and so I'll usually tell them that if they miss the, miss the appointment or there's someone who is a, uh, not a new person, but they've been around for a little while. And I say, I told you, you know, my, you might think about mornings. All right. So they all look, they all kind of know this. You know, my thing about mornings, right? It's not like I don't do anything in the morning, but I'll come in at nine o'clock because I'm doing other things. All right. Small business, you got to do a lot of things.

Um, and so I would suggest that everybody kind of scale down their work week until they, until they really need to expand it. And it'll really free up time to do more marketing, go to more running groups, go to whatever you're going to do. Okay. Now, um, as you can tell through podcasting, if you listen to a handful of my episodes now, or watch me do a video, I'm much better at public speaking now. Everybody is afraid of it at the beginning. I don't know one person who was not neurotic about it. And, um, recently I sent one of my interns over to a medical office or a couple of medical offices.

I said, look, I just want you to go in there, introduce yourself, leave this paperwork and see if you can, um, uh, develop a relationship and get them to send people in here. And, uh, and they said they're about to vomit and punch me in the face because they were so nervous about doing it. Nobody likes doing it. Okay. When she came back, she was really pumped. She was excited. And so, um, it's easier to just to rip off the mandate and just do it for public speaking. Um, it comes better through time. And so work on doing Instagram stories or Facebook stories and, you know, podcasting and YouTube videos and so on.

Do all this stuff. Uh, all this stuff will help you with kind of filling in the voids of space when you don't have anything to say throughout doing this podcast. I don't know what I'm always going to talk about. Uh, for this one in particular, I have a little bit of a rough outline just because I, I want to make sure to hit some touch point for you guys, but they're just bullet points. And, um, I, I don't have segues planned in. I don't have any of that stuff. So, um, you'll start to, uh, decrease the amount of your ums and, and thes and not those, I guess ums and uhs and so on. Um, as you see, I just did one right there, uh, and another one right there, but you'll start to see that it's easier just to pause.

And when you start to listen to yourself more in audio, then you're going to start to realize where you can improve. Now, I think as we go through the remainder of this podcast, I think I'd like to share a couple of realizations that I had to, um, I guess the other things were realizations in the beginning, but I guess these are things where, uh, as I started to, as I'm practicing now, I start to see that I, um, I don't want to say just I'm practicing now. I'll just hit the points. Okay. I think there's, I think I could have created a better format for this podcast here because it could have been like 10 realizations or whatever, but I wrote down six at the very end.

So let's just go with that. And so the, the first thing realization is actually when I graduated, actually I graduated some party as many of you probably will. So your friends and family will come over, your relatives and so on. And I remember at the very end, I, I sit up and I said, Oh, if you guys are having any problems, come see me like I'm right around the corner and I'll help you out with stuff. And I actually didn't even ask for any money. I just said, come in and see me, you know, and it was a wishy washy one just because, um, I was bad at public speaking, you know, but nobody came to see me at all, you know?

And so friends did not come to see me. Relatives did not come to see me. Relatives will still have knee replacements and back surgeries and weight problems, you know, and all these other things that they'll, they will gladly go to some other person who's a quote unquote expert rather over you. And they did do that to see me and they'll, um, they did do that when it came to see me, like they wouldn't necessarily see me or would not be the trusted person they would reach for, even then they, even though they knew me. Okay. They would gladly pay these other experts for their opinion and for their work rather than me.

All right. And so I know that the easiest sell in the book to get someone to come in even for free. And when I say sell, I'm not talking about sell and make money. I'm talking about just getting them to allow you to touch them and help you, uh, let allow them to, for you to help them, um, should be your relatives and friends. Like your best friend should be able to, you're like, Hey man, like you're having a foot problem. Let me look at that. Sorry. My alarm just went off. Apparently it's wake up time. It's eight 20 here. Um, I've been setting my alarm later cause I just want to not wake up to my alarm, but I typically wake up around six, uh, six, six 30.

Anyways, um, your friend should be willing to allow, uh, you to, to, to mess with their foot, at least give it a try. But you know, like, you know, I'm going to go to the podiatrist. Like my, you know, my, my father said I should go there and blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, that's bullshit. Okay. Or maybe they trust their father more than they trust you, which is fine. Right. But to go to an unknown person rather than somebody who they know and trust and love for their healthcare, I think is ridiculous and bullshit. All right. I have, I've been more voice to us over the last year or so, especially with my baseball team.

And, uh, I remember I was out there, um, the end of this last season. And so they're like, oh, where did, uh, you know, I was like, Hey, where'd Joe go? And they're like, oh yeah. So he's been having some, a pinched nerve in his neck and, and so on. And I'm like, okay, so what's the problem? You know, like, and like, oh yeah, the doctor says really bad. And I said, okay. So I'm like you over there, you've had a back problem. You over there, you've had a shoulder one. You over there had a neck problem. Okay. Do you guys understand what I do for a living? You know, I started cussing more, but do you guys understand what I do for a living?

Okay. I want you all to know right now that if you come to my office, I will just say whatever's in your pocket, leave it on the table and I will do the best to help you. Shit. If we're on the sideline right now in the dugout, just ask me, ask me anything, but I do not want to hear you bitching about your problems anymore in a nice way. You know, I'm like, I'm here to help you. But at the same time, it's very frustrating to me to see you guys suffer like that. And so I want to win. I want you guys playing. Okay. Come see me. You know, and they don't always do it. A couple of them have, you know, and I think it's an important to just have a conversation like that in a nice way with your friends and family because like I've had patients who have come in for, I mean, they trust and love me.

You know, like I'm on a text message basis with a lot of them. I try to have them schedule that way, but I try to have them, you know, like communicate that way. And so one guy, I helped him with his back, right? And so he, through the grapevine, I heard he was having an ankle surgery and I said, I texted him. I was like, what are you doing? What's wrong with your ankles? He's like, oh yeah, well, this thing's been going on and blah, blah, blah. I said, look, I said, look, come in. Don't pay me. Just come in, right? He came in and within a week and a half, he was walking with no pain whatsoever in his ankle.

His ankle surgery was canceled. And so at that point, I realized, I said, look, okay, whatever you have, anything, okay, you think your farts are contributing to your low back pain or to your foot pain, you talk to me first, all right? You think that your loss of vision has anything to do with like your hand getting numb, you talk to me first. And so I will tell you if I think I can help you or not and I will tell you where I think you should go and I would like to be your quarterback, all right? And so I can't tell you how many people, I mean, this is the beauty of social media. You can see who's suffering through their junk, right?

Or who is no longer posting pictures of certain activities or you see that they're having a problem with their knee when they're on social media and they're a runner, they have tape on their knee. It's like, dude, why do you have that tape on your knee? Oh, I've been dealing with this runner's knee for a long time. And I went to this guy and he said that I should put this tape on it. And, you know, I should have been scaling down my miles. Man, I'm really frustrated right now. Like, I can't really run as much as I want to. Dude, what did I, dude, come in and see me. I will tell you if I can't help you, right?

And so this is the realization that I've really had, especially more recently. My girlfriend had a disc herniation and she's, so she's been hobbling a little bit. And so you, my friends now, like they know, like I'm more virtuous now. You know what I do. And so people will come up and friends will come up. They're like, oh man, like you, like you're back. Did you go to a doctor yet? And I'm standing right there. And so she looks at me and she's like, yeah, I went to Seb. And then some people are like, oh, did you get an MRI yet? And I'm standing there and they're like, well, Seb's managing me.

And it's like, and like not sounding in a mean way, but like for all you clinicians, young docs out there, I'm guessing at some point there's a tipping point for these people. It's like, oh, you know, Seb can help out with like little aches and pains here. But if you really hurt, you got to go to the expert. No, talk to me first, okay? I will tell you if I cannot help you and I will do it in a very direct way, okay? I'm not going to wishy-washy you. Shit, I might not even charge you, right? You need to trust me. And if I think that this is ongoing care that you're going to need with me, I think there's only a certain, there's a certain point in time where it's like, okay, you need, you need to start paying me because I don't want you to feel uncomfortable coming to see me.

And I don't want you to go somewhere else to pay somebody else who is, again, this is, this is confident, not cocky, not as good as me, okay? And I know that it sounds cocky to say that, but at the same time, it's all, I'm also confident with certain things I'm really damn good at. And so please don't go to someone else who's less educated and subpar than myself because you're embarrassed about paying me or you don't want to have that awkward conversation. So just talk to me about it. If you feel uncomfortable, talk to me and come see me. And again, anything at all, right? If you think your fingernail is falling off and it has a relate, it has a relationship to like your neck pain, talk to me, okay?

And so when these, when you're, since you're a young doc, since, since some of you are exiting school, you're going to have this experience. You're going to notice if you look around, you're going to see some of your friends and family paying for what you might deem as subpar care for a problem you can easily help them with. And it's going to be very hard to convince these people to come in and see you. You almost have to handcuff them and drag them in the office because they are not seeing that you can be helpful. So that realization is the first one. Second one is that if you are running your own business, and this goes probably for any business whatsoever.

If you run a restaurant, you know, like a chain of, you know, kind of laundromats, whatever, including chiropractic or PT, is that when your friends don't have a business of their own, they don't understand how to help you, okay? Think about that, okay? Again, your friends don't always, they might not, I don't expect them to know everything about my job. I know I sound like a direct asshole earlier when I was talking about that stuff, but I don't, I understand where they're coming from, all right? They don't understand everything about what's going on. And they, some conditions I think are more fearful, and they think there's seriousness to them, like degeneration, ooh, right?

So I think the realization that, number one, they don't understand everything that you do, so it's your job to help explain to them or at least get them to understand that you're the trustworthy quarterback. That's number one. Number two, though, is that even from a business standpoint, is if they don't understand how you can help somebody or that you're like their guy, they won't refer anybody to you. And so it's like, they'll talk about like their experience at work as they go to work and they, you know, they have their post-it notes and their emails and like they have their teams and stuff and they go home and collect a paycheck and, you know, like they have other problems at work, but for the most part, they don't necessarily take work home and they don't have to solicit their own business, all right?

Having a, like if you had 10 close friends who had the lookout and awareness to actually look around like, so I know some of my friends listen to this podcast, I'm not bashing on you guys, by the way. But let's just say if you guys were at work today and you see somebody who's been hobbling around the office or like they're always grabbing their neck and stuff and if you take an interest, most of the time people do because they did with my girlfriend, it's like, oh, you're hurting? Maybe you should go X, Y, and Z, you know? And so if you look around the office and you see Joe over there has been holding his neck, he's sitting in his computer, Joe, what's going on?

Like your neck bothers you? Yeah, man, you know, like I've been dealing with this for like six months. It's really frustrating. I can't even sleep, right? I get a headache all the time and I can't concentrate at work and it's really frustrating. Oh, that's good. What'd you try? Man, I've tried everything. Good. I got the right person for you. You know how I know I got the right person for you? Because my guy is trustworthy and he was an Eagle Scout, okay? What's that have to do with my neck? Dude, just trust me. Just go, okay? My guy's like my guy's my boy. Like he's not going to screw you. Just tell him you know me.

Go there. He can help you. If he can't help you, he'll tell you to go somewhere else. This, from a friend's point of view, I know that it's not easy to solicit business for somebody, but think of it like this. When you're the friends of someone owning a business, you're actually, if you believe, if you like that person or if you like that person's service, if they've helped you in any way, if they've helped your wife, if they've helped your kid, you already have a sample of what they can do for you. And remember how, if that did happen, how easy it was for that person to feel better and they didn't have to go through the suffering point that this person, the coworker did, okay?

And so you can easily help the coworker, but also help your buddy at the same time, your local chiropractor, your local PT. Because we're not able to always go do this and it's easier to have a fan or a hype man than it is to be your own hype man. And so your 10 friends, your 10 best friends should be your hype people, okay? I got a friend who owns a restaurant and we drag, or sorry, a bar, we drag people over there all the time. When he's got events, we drag people over there. Hey, you want to go get a drink? Yeah, let's go over here, right? We want to support local business. We want to support people we like and we want to support a community and someone that you trust.

We want to support good people. And so the realization I have is that I need to do a better job of telling my friends how to do this. And this is something I did learn through BNI is that you need to tell your team how to actually refer to you. And so I'm going to actually do this and expect to call some of my close friends, expect to call because I'm going to get you guys to hustle. You're going to be my fat man scoops, like the person who yells at the beginning of rap songs. You're going to be my fat man scoop, okay? So that's number two. Number three is when you're starting your own business, you need to hustle, okay?

You can't expect all your friends and family to hustle for you, although they trust and love you and make sure that they might understand exactly what you do, but they know that you're trustworthy as hell, okay? They know that you're trustworthy and you know your skill set and they know what you're good at. By the way, I know that I'm good at necks, shoulders, hips, low backs, sciatica, and 50% of knees, ankles, wrists, and elbows. And if I don't have a good success for them in the first couple of times, I'll suggest elsewhere, okay? So remember that, friends, if you're listening to that, go ahead and refer in, by the way.

So I know what I'm good at. And so actually the last hip that I worked with, it was a non-responsive one. Actually, the MRI was actually something I didn't ever expect, all right? I'm that confident in some of the things that I'm working with. And so when you're confident in what you work, you can hustle, okay? And as a business owner, you have to hustle, all right? Don't look at it like a bad thing. You have to hustle to make sure that people are aware that you're good at your things. So be willing to be very uncomfortable working hard and getting out there, meeting people, doing more work than you ever thought possible.

Because running your own business, it ain't a game, all right? It can be fun. It can be challenging. And it can be very rewarding. But it's not easy. I'm pretty sure. If you haven't read the e-book, the e-myth, I forget the author's name, the e-myth, they point a good picture of it, is that you're basically hanging out with your boss all the time who's a massive slave driver. Like, they will not stop. And so I'm hanging out with myself. I know what I should be doing. So I tell myself to do it and I do it, right? It's 24-7. It really is. And so it's not the easiest job in the world. So remember, start to like it, but also don't want to turn it off, okay?

You should be able to turn it off and be 100% invested and hang out with your friends and family, all right? If you're at home and you're talking with your wife, don't start talking about business. Don't start talking about what you got to do at work. Don't start talking about work at all and don't be playing on your computer or your phone or your Instagram or whatever. Just talk to them. 100% invested in doing what you're doing at the time. I think deep work is the concept, but just hustle and do what you're supposed to be doing at the time. Number four is, or maybe number five, either way, the next one, it's hard to take money.

I'd strongly suggest start high, okay? If you start too low, it's very hard to up the price in these people, but it's very easy to be gracious and say, you know what? It's usually $300. You know what? I'll just give it to you today. But you know what? Can you do a video testimonial for me? Or I just want something to help improve the visibility of my business. And so why don't we just do the video today and you just sign this little waiver to make sure that you're okay with sharing your health information and then we'd call it a wash. Is that okay? Yeah, cool. Good. By the way, I don't know the specifics on saying that's a paid testimonial or not because I typically don't ask people for testimonials unless they've actually already paid to come and see me.

I don't give it away. But I don't try anything for the testimonial because I'm pretty sure you have to divulge that or tell people that. However, I will ask for, can I videotape your entire session? And so it's a case study video. And so there's really not, whether it goes good or bad, it's still, I want the videotape. And so that's the trade there. The next thing is, think of Martin Luther King on this. And so this is conveying a message versus a methodology. And so with Martin Luther King, if you consider like with human rights, like he went out there and he's like, he talks about his dream and so on.

And he didn't really say, here's the steps we're going to take, A, B, and C. Here's what we're going to do, A, B, and C, right? I need to go back and listen to the MLK speech. But for the most part, it was a passionful thing. Let's just say if I'm talking with a patient about what we should be doing with their problem, they might ask, sorry, I can gas you this morning, I'm burping. Sorry, if I was going to talk to a new patient, a possible new patient, so what are you going to do, doc? Well, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to e-value with orthopedic tests and I'm going to look at your neurological and I'm going to test to see, you know, what your body is, you know, what creates your problem and body mechanics and so on.

How boring is that? Okay, really boring. And so I would rather go the route of, so what are we going to do? You know, well, you know, it depends on what's your problem. Okay, well, I got this neck thing. Oh, you know, is there anything else that stops you from doing? Yeah, yeah, I can't play tennis. Okay, good, cool. All right, so I'll let you know that first off, I can certainly look at your neck, all right? And I'll let you know that when I'm successful in my cases, I want you to know, and this is not to say you're going to be 100% within this time frame, but within a week and a half, what I'm looking for is an over 50% improvement.

If I don't hit that, I'm probably picked the wrong thing. At that point, I might tell you, hey, man, I need to refer you on somewhere else. Or I might say, hey, I need to switch gears a little bit because I missed the application of the right treatment there. But when you pick the correct solution to your problem, or we implement the right solution to your problem, you will get better. Okay, you understand that? Yes, I understand that. Cool. Now, all I need to do is look at you and do some examination, and then we'll try to select the right solution. It's going to be stuff that you're going to be able to do at home, all right?

You're going to be in your own control of this, and really your success is going to be based upon, number one, if I pick correctly, or number two, if you do it, okay? You won't be able to 100% play tennis at that point, but you're certainly going to be able to, I think you'll be able to sleep. I think you'll be able to go out through a normal day without having a problem, and you'll be able to start swinging a racket, but you might not play an entire duration of a game. So the difference in there is the confidence with it, okay? The confidence with it. And the message, not necessarily the application.

The next thing is I think I probably would have stayed in contact more with like-minded doctors that think like myself or at least wanted to keep up to date and grow. And this has been a challenge for me over the years because I know in the first five years of practice or so, again, you've got to hustle, right? And so you've got to hang out with non-doctor people or non-rehab people. But I think I should have done a better job of actually keeping up to date with these people and hanging out because I think I would have learned a lot not only with business but also clinical stuff too. And I know that some of my colleagues now that I graduated with, I feel like I have a lot of things I can share with them that are not even like, they don't even have to pay for a workshop.

You just hang out and have a beer, you know? And this was the opportunity I had when I hung out with Cody D-Mac when he was here. Like we just bullshit have beers, have pizza and just talk about shop. And so I have the same kind of thing with one of my other friends who runs a t-shirt company. He talks about business. And so we don't necessarily have to go to a workshop on this stuff. We just kind of like dabble in things. And so it just keeps all your ideas fresh. And so I would suggest that you guys really keep in contact with the people that are, I guess, let's just say that the people you look up to in your class or in your cohort and then you hang out with them on, I'd say, at least a monthly basis.

Now, I think those are the things I want to cover there. But on that same note of keeping in contact with people, Jesse Macedo's podcast came out, I think, last week. I might be wrong with the actual dates here because I think this is released and after, but I'm not sure. And we talked about having just a general meetup, just people like-minded of the profession, orthopedic, strength coaches, PTs, DCs, students, even athletic trainers and people at local colleges, like people who haven't gotten their bachelors yet, like people who are still in their exercise science or they want to get into this industry.

I was thinking about just having that meetup, actually, and I'm just going to pull the trigger here. You won't hear this on all the follow-up podcasts because those have been prerecorded before this one. But I decided on a date, and I spoke with the local school, some of the people at the local school, Southern California University of Health Sciences, and I checked to see what their availability was because I want to make sure that after having an interaction with them at Cal Chiro Symposium, I think that was great. Like, I enjoyed it. I enjoy sharing these bits with people who are interested in the information, and I think they got a lot from it, too.

And so they had better questions than the ones I can make up on the fly right here. And so we hung out there for about 45 minutes, and I thought, you know what, that'd be really cool to actually make this thing happen. So here's the call to action today is that January 18th, Saturday, 5 to 7, Sandy's right by the pier in Huntington Beach. This is where actually we had our graduation party from chiropractic school. This is a big, big area. They got beers. They got food. It's kid-friendly. And so I was thinking we just go there and just I will personally be there. Even if no one else is there, I will be there from 5 to 7, eating food, having a beer or so.

And if anybody decides to show up, they will have a one-on-one time with me asking whatever question they want, okay? Jesse should be there as well, as well as some of the other students from SCU. And I will do my very best to gather people that I know, maybe people that have been on the show as well. I'll probably ask Brennan Gassamia if he wants to come. He's been interviewed a couple times. Maybe we get someone from the school. I would love if Michael Fanny came from SCU. And let's just see if we can get people who are like-minded and wanting to push the profession forward. And so, again, if you're a listener to this podcast, I consider you the movement or the movement movement.

And I think gathering together like this in a non-paid, no one has to pay anything. You just go and buy your own stuff and hang out and bro down. That's it. And I think this is how things start, you know? Like the Dead Poets Society, they just got together and hung out, didn't they? Like no one paid to be in that. And so, this is all free information and, you know, full access. Think of it like a VIP thing. And whoever you want to come, just invite them, okay? I think the more people we get to be interested in improving as a healthcare professional, the better we're going to be. And I would really love to meet some orthopedic and neurologist.

I don't get a chance to always interact with them. And in my experience, it's really hard to get past their front desk. I don't know why, you know? But I would feel more comfortable referring to somebody if I knew them personally. Kind of like I have a, I refer more to strength coaches if I know them personally too. And so, I would love to have a mishmash of professions in there. Local or not local, it doesn't matter. Like we're going to, as I know that I get a lot of people who contact me from different states. Shit, I've sent, I don't know how many people to Jeremy Dinkin out in New Jersey. Like if you're from New York or Connecticut, I don't know how many times, like, I don't know how many times I've cut and pasted his URL on Instagram for someone to go see Jeremy Dinkin.

He was an intern here and I trusted judgment completely. I've also referred a lot of people to Bo Beard. A lot. I don't know if they go there, but shit, if you live in Missouri or Kentucky or whatever, I don't know those states very well. Hey, how close are you to Alabama? Go there, right? Anyone close to Dallas or in Texas somewhere, I say drive to Dallas and go to Parker and ask to see if you can be seen by Cody D-Max cohort. Okay, so I think when, even if you're not close, if you're hanging out, if you want to come hang out, I know I'm saying five to seven, but just hang out as long as you want to, okay?

I'll be there to the very last person's there and I'll personally answer any question that you ask. No matter how awkward it is, I'll do my very best to answer it in a very nice way. So, and I'll be honest with you about stuff. So, as always, lead people better in how you found them and thank you. Oh, I almost went back into the old one, huh? Thank you for being part of the movement movement and refer this to another DC or PT or movement-based professional who you think would gain value from this and who is in their first year of practice or at least about to exit school. The only way this podcast grows is if you guys share it and I'm thankful for everybody's reviews on iTunes and for their sharing on Instagram and as always, you can always reach out to me on Instagram, ask me any question that you have.

I don't mind if you're a clinician or a layperson or a patient, you can ask me. I might not answer all of them directly because I might be bound by healthcare law, but if you have any questions, do not be afraid to ask. I will guide you to the best information that I have on it. All right, thanks for being part of the movement movement. See you guys later.