Teaching People About Their Bodies in Plain Language

This is session number 86 of the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast. You ever been thrown in a dumpster? Welcome to the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast, where you can learn about sports injury theory, rehab, diagnosis, and how to understand the doctor lingo you didn't understand at your appointment. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone, I'm Sebastian, your host at the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast, and I want to thank you for listening in. This was going to be a long one today. It's going to be about an hour and 15 or so, but we have a great guest. So, the reason why I went long is because we just started getting into other information at the very end, which it was great. So, this is Dr. Ryan DeBell, who's going to be with us today. He's a chiropractor, but also he is a podcaster. He is a content creator.

He does e-products, and he does seminars, as well as treating people. So, he's a very busy dude, and as you're going to see through the podcast interview, that it's kind of about how he became what he is. Because it's a very different subset of treating and educating the public than most healthcare providers take. And as I learned in the very beginning, actually, that within the first couple months of practice, he put out, he went through and did some seminars, and he made $4,000 in one day. $4,000. It's amazing to think that you could do that, and he is just a good communicator so that he could relay the information and knowledge he has to the public so all of a sudden it turned into value for them. So, before I go into that, by the way, his podcast is the Movement Fix Podcast, and you can also find his contacts in the show notes, Movement Fix. We're going to go into a ton of stuff today. We're going to go into content creation, promotion of content, why drawing, what about your creativity, and how to get going in business as a healthcare provider.

First, let me tell you that I did get thrown in dumpsters when I was younger, but it's not by the people that you'd think. Actually, my dad put me and my friend in dumpsters, and so we went to the beach, and we went and collected cans. So, when I was younger, I mean, we weren't poor by any means. It was just a thing that we did. We went and collected cans. So, we were fairly frugal, so we didn't grow up with lavish stuff, but we had the things that we wanted and needed. So, he'd take us to the beach, and I think we were about five at the time. We were pretty small. So, he'd pick us up, put us in the dumpster, and we would throw out all these cans. So, we'd put them in the trash bags, take them to the recycle center, and we'd walk away with, what did we get back then? I want to say like a good haul was like 50 bucks, and it was, there's actually these big dumpsters at the beach down in Huntington that were, they were kind of towards PCH more. They weren't the ones that were towards the sand, and they were huge. They were like the size of like five dumpsters put together, so we called them super dumpsters. That was where the good stuff was, but yeah. So, in case you've never been thrown in there, I wouldn't go in now. You don't know what kind of needles and junk is in there, but we survived, so I guess you can survive too. Before we go into the interview, don't forget to go onto my website, p2sportscare.com. We have a bunch of free stuff on there, free content, free podcasts. There's also things you can buy as well, education materials for your patients to improve your communication with them in the shop section. And don't forget, if you buy a poster, then I'm going to give you access to the ongoing Google Doc that I have that I send out to my patients who have questions on random stuff, shoulders, hips, knees, elbows, so on, to better educate them about like the reasons why we're doing what we're doing. And I try to break it down to really easy communication for them. So, without any further ado, let's have on Ryan DeBell.

All right, everyone. Welcome on Ryan DeBell of the Movement Fix podcast. Ryan, say hey. Hey, thanks for having me on. Hey, so I thought I would have you on today because I think everyone would be, I think you're an interesting dude, not that I know you personally, but you are, you've started a podcast, you have a bunch of YouTube videos, you have all these seminars, you don't practice like a typical chiropractor would, right? Yeah, I would say that's true. So, I'd love for people to really understand that, I don't know if this would be useful for patients really, but I think clinicians, young doctors, young PTs, and chiropractors, I think they probably want to know how you did all this stuff.

Yeah, I kind of wonder the same thing. You know, most of it happened really by accident. But to go back a step, like when I was younger, I've always liked, I've always disliked doing what's normal. So, like the most, the thing that I can't stand the most is like doing what everybody else does. And I've always been that way. Like all growing up, I just, I always wanted to do things my own way. Like if there was a way that other people did things that was established, I would always try to figure out like, I want to figure out my own way of doing it. Which is really what, which is like. Were you in style back then, then?

Did you wear the same clothes as everybody else? You know what? I can't remember now. No, I'll find some old pictures of me when I was a kid and we can put them on there. It's ridiculous. But, so like one question I get asked a lot is why did I choose chiropractic and not physical therapy school? Like I probably get an email about that like once a week from someone who's like, hey, you know, I want to, I'm going into one of those fields. I'm trying to figure out which one to do. And I think really why I went to the chiropractic route is just because it was like the least, like the less normal of the two.

You know what I mean? Like PT is much more mainstream, chiro is not. And that's probably what ultimately led me in that direction. But, um, when I graduated, I was going to work with somebody else who, um, I had been talking to for years while I was in school about working at her clinic and I wanted to be an independent contractor because I wanted a piece of what I produced. And, uh, I think that she ultimately wanted an associate, although she was misleading about that because she told me she wasn't going to hire anybody because she wasn't ready for it, but then hired an associate for like a very low monthly, uh, wage.

So then, so then I graduated, I was like, well, I'm graduating in three months. It would have been nice if you could have given me some heads up because I had been expecting to do that. And so I was freaking out, you know, three months from graduating. Oh, what, what the hell am I going to do now? And I had gone to, um, I'd gone to business school as my undergraduate degree. So I decided I'll just start my own business and go for it from the beginning. So I started my own clinic and while the space was getting built out, which is like, it really takes a lot longer to start a clinic than I had thought, at least when I didn't know what I was doing at the time.

Cause I had to figure it out. You're talking about like the build out or like actually getting people in the door? No, the build out, like getting the lease, getting the build out, getting my licensing, getting all that stuff ready to go. Um, it took many, many months, many months longer than I expected that it would have to get permits. Then it has to get built. And then that takes a long time. The contractors don't get it done on time, blah, blah, blah. So in the meantime, I was thinking, how am I going to get people to come see me? So I, uh, I thought about, well, what do I know best? And I had started doing CrossFit, um, in 2007.

So I had like a pretty long history of, of, um, that kind of style of training. So I reached out to every CrossFit gym within 20 miles of where I was going to open my clinic and told them I would do a free two hour talk for their members, that they wanted some, um, like useful information for their, their members, like on a Saturday. Sorry, I'm going to cough a lot because I'm getting over the flu. No worry. I think everyone, oh, this will air in May. So no one will, no one will be sick by them, but everyone's sick right now, huh? Oh my gosh. The flu, I never, I had, I really disrespected the severity of the flu, right?

I really did. I was like, oh, the flu, it's kind of like having a cold. Like it destroyed me for two weeks. Yeah. I know people that have had it for like a month right now. Yeah. I've never been this. I was never as sick in my life as I was this last week. And it was like right after I got done traveling a ton and I was ready to like recover and I got the flu and it was, uh, so, um, so I started doing all these talks at gyms and by the way, I got like 10% success rate, meaning like nine out of 10 gyms didn't even respond to my email. So I proceeded with the 10% who were like, Hey, yeah, that sounds interesting.

Cause I was probably the more open-minded individuals to work with anyways. And the first one I did, the owner of the gym was like, Hey man, you should, this is good. You should make this into like a thing that people pay for. And cause I was just doing it for free, right? To get my name out. And I was like, really? I never thought about that. And then, and then I did another one the next, the next week. Cause I had like five weeks in a row where I did them on the weekends. And the next place I went to, the owner said the same thing. She said, you should do this and charge people, like make it into a thing that you do.

And she said, in fact, maybe you should do, um, maybe you should do a full day where you teach coaches what you think CrossFit coaches should know to work with people more safely. I said, I don't know. I mean, do you think anybody would go? She's like, I don't know. We could just set it up at my gym and find out like, okay. So, so we set it up and then we sold like 20 spots to it for a full day workshop. How much would, how much did that cost for him? Uh, it was $200 a person. Huh? So yeah, I mean, if you do the math, it was $4,000 in one day. And that was, and that was before I opened my clinic doors.

So my clinic wasn't even done yet. So I made, I made that much money, which to me at that time, I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. I was like, I didn't realize that there was this opportunity out there. So, um, so then I was like, well, maybe I should do some more of these, you know? And, uh, and so I did some local ones and sometimes I made $400 in the day. Like, cause I did, I did shorter ones for just athletes. That was like $50. So I had like, sometimes I had eight people there for 50 bucks. And I, at the time, like that was awesome. You know, $400 to go talk to people. It's great.

Um, and, and then I started blogging at the, um, the, uh, suggestion of Erson religioso. If you're familiar with Erson, Dr. E, he, uh, he's been a mentor of mine throughout the years. And he was like, you need to start blogging regularly if you want to grow this into any sort of like actual business. So I started blogging and then I wrote this article about squatting in the hip joint architecture, like maybe four years ago. And that's really what, that was really like a big moment because like that article got so much traffic and attention. I had like 30 requests to do workshops all around the country.

So I went from doing them locally to suddenly having like a full year schedule from one article that I wrote. Wow. How long was that article by the way? Like 400 words. Really? Yeah, it was just pictures. It was just pictures of the different, uh, femoral anatomy and acetabular anatomy and, um, showing how there are variations in the bony structure. And I was just pointing out there, there were differences, but it would, it really garnered a lot of attention. So, um, so that's really what started the workshop thing. And then I started to decide like, well, how else can I grow the business? What other services and things can I provide people with?

Um, so then I started making some, um, programs that were, uh, to address common areas of complaint like shoulders and hips and stuff. And then I started to think about like, what things do I want to exist? And, um, one of the things that I wanted to exist was training programs that were designed for, with safety and longevity of the human body in mind, but that explored different areas of physicality. So for example, um, we made a program on, that was like based on basic gymnastics, like handstands and levers and planches and things, but it still included like some hypertrophy work and some metabolic conditioning.

And then, um, and then another program that we're going to come out with is weightlifting. So like Olympic lifting based, but it also includes like conditioning and includes hypertrophy work. So I wanted these like well-rounded programs, but that focused on a particular aspect, but didn't neglect everything else because I just wanted those for me because I just want to go to the gym and look at my program and, and, and know what I'm going to do and not have to like think of it. So, so then I started to build out like, what would all the cool products and services be that I could offer? And like, while I was doing this, I was in my clinic treating patients like, uh, four days a week.

So it was, it was kind of a rough couple of years doing that and traveling almost every weekend. Um, it was quite exhausting actually. Yeah. How do you have time for all that? Cause I know there's probably a lot of clinicians out there early. I mean, I know they got a lot of time in the beginning, but after that, do they get bogged down with patients? I mean, yeah, so I had to make a choice like, like eight months ago, um, a choice of, am I still going to try to run a clinic and do all this? Or am I going to focus on just running a really good clinic? Or am I going to focus on just running a really good, um, education and like product-based business?

Because doing both, I was, I was mediocre at both, to be honest. Like I was, I wasn't able to even be in my office on Mondays and Fridays. Cause I was always traveling. And like, if I saw patients, I was too exhausted to do a good job. So I was narrowing my days down and then I was like really doing a disservice to my patients who needed better care or like more frequent care than that. Cause I couldn't provide it for them. So I started renting out my office to other providers, other chiropractors, sports chiros. And they were there on the days that I wasn't there. And then, um, I decided like, I, I have the opportunity to help a lot of people because of what I've sort of accidentally put myself into.

Um, and so I made the decision about eight months ago to focus more on the education side of my business and making great products for people than on, um, seeing patients clinically. Yeah. I think that's cool. I don't teach clinical, I don't teach clinical courses. Like, like I had to come over that mentally. Like, how can I go teach people stuff when I'm not seeing patients? Well, I'm teaching people how to move and take care of their body. I'm not teaching clinicians how to treat shoulder, you know, like labral tears. You know what I mean? So, um, so I had to make that transition and the mental transition of how do I, you know, I had an identity shift.

I was this person who would treat patients and I was this clinician and then I had to move into like business owner and, um, educator and creator like programs and products and services. Yeah. I'm sure, I'm sure you have the ability to, you, you're helping more people by doing this educational platform than you would just a one-on-one. Yeah. So, um, I'm helping more people at like a lesser depth because like if you work with someone one-on-one, you can help someone at a much greater depth. Like you can be there emotionally for them. You can really dive into their history. I can help people, more people, but at a shallower depth.

So as long as you're okay with that, which I am, then it's fine to do, but it does, it's a mentality shift. For sure. So how, how do you then control it? Cause I know that we actually, I have this conversation with some colleagues before that's, it's, uh, they say like, well, a program is, they can't do a template program for everybody because it's not specific to the person. I'm like, well, if they understood the basics of at least a majority of things you're going to be talking about and showing, I feel like you'd help more people, but you're right at surface depth. So go ahead. Oh, no, sorry.

I interrupted you. No, I think I was done. Oh, okay. Got it. So I read your transition correctly. So you did. So here's what I think about. We all think we're doing such unique things for people, but I think if you took a bird's eye view, you'd realize that like, we pretty much do the same thing for most people. Like for most people who have shoulder problems, there's like basic things that you're going to do. And the variance is probably not that much. And from first of all, there's a large number of people who have problems who won't go see somebody. And what they'll do first is they'll look on the internet for a solution.

And then if that doesn't work, they'll go years and years and years without seeking care. Like it's something, the statistic on like people who've had low back pain before they seek care, something like 10, 10 years or something like that. It's ridiculous. But you know, those people are searching for an answer online because, you know, I have to make an appointment. I have to go through my insurance. Like, so I was thinking like, can I help that person 10 years in advance if I make something available online that can help them? Because like the principles of the low backer, you know, like improve their hip mobility, like make sure that they're not, you know, in these positions repetitively that could cause some sort of injury, you know, make sure that people actually understand how to move their body and control it and try to build up some muscle mass around their spine and things like that.

So if that's a first line of defense, that's going to help a lot of people. Now, if that doesn't help, then more individualistic care is needed. Like, does everyone need a one-on, like a personalized dietary program to know how to eat healthy? Like, of course not. Look how many nutrition books are out there that can help people have a better diet. I think the same thing is true with movement, understanding your body. Like, if you just follow basic principles. So my programs that I made, like address those basic principles, like around the shoulder, it looks at all the motions the shoulder can do.

What are the different ranges of motion you want to improve? What are the different strengths, like directions of strength that you need to acquire, like vertical pulling, vertical pressing, like open chain, closed chain, things like that. And I think actually it allowed me to make a better shoulder program than I probably did with people in my clinic because I could focus solely on making a really good shoulder program. Yeah. So ironically, it actually helped me do that. So you said you made a shoulder, so there's a shoulder hip program you have coming out. Is that, did you categorize like that because of the ball and socket orientation or you just So I have, I have a shoulder program and I have a hip slash low back program.

And the reason I did it that way is because I really could have called it upper half and lower half. Um, but the main, yeah, the reason I did show it's pretty much because those are the two biggest areas of complaint that people have like around their shoulder and then around their hip and their low back. Um, probably because like, it's not really like shoulder and neck, probably because like the scapula slides on the rib cage. So it's not attached to the spine in the same way, like your hip is in your pelvis and that's attached to your spine. So I think like hip and low back problems go together like a lot more in people's minds than like a shoulder problem is usually like maybe they have some shoulder neck tightness, but usually it's like, no, it's my shoulder.

It's not my neck. But when it's the hip, it's like, it's kind of my hip. It's kind of my back. So, um, I can agree with that. That's why it's a good mental mindset that you put into the book. Actually, very patient, centric. Yeah. You know, what are people thinking? Like, and I think there's a lot to be, yeah, as I've gone through like digital marketing and understanding, like all that stuff, which is basically what my business is now. Like I've really come to realize that first of all, as clinicians, we overcomplicate things way too much on our websites to describe our services and how we can help people.

Um, for example, like no one, like, no, I shouldn't say no one, but a very small percentage of people go to a site to look for, like, I want someone who does, who's grasped in level two. Like they don't even know what that is. They want to know, look, I have my shoulder hurts. Can this person help me or not? Right. And like the better job you can do on your website or in your advertising materials to show people that you can help their problem, not how cool you are and what you offer. Like that's how you're going to get people to see you or buy your program or whatever. Like my shoulder hurts when I lift my arm up overhead.

Like they're looking for visual cues and like words that show that there's a connection that you do and you help people who have what they have. Okay. So, so say it again with like, so I want to make sure, cause there's probably a lot of clinicians and young docs in here cause they get right out of school and they're like just a steady dose of technical terms and so on. So you're, what I'm hearing is that there's different ways to write these articles and structure their articles if they're doing them right. Yeah, exactly. So like a little story on that. I mean, when is the last time that you learned a new skill that you knew nothing about?

So I recently took a draw, a drawing class. Okay. And like, believe me, that's a whole nother story. We should ask why. Believe me, I am not an artist. Okay. But I wanted to take a drawing class cause I wanted to learn a new skill and I thought it'd be interesting. Um, and because I wanted to do something creative because I felt like if I could learn a new creative skill like drawing, cause I don't have any creative outlets really. Like I don't do, I don't play music. Like I don't sing. Um, I don't draw, I don't paint. So I was like, if I do something like that, perhaps it'll make me more creative in my business because I'll be like stimulating creative areas of my brain.

So that's, and I didn't know the fundamental skills of drawing. So I couldn't, I couldn't like easily express that and work on it. So I was like, I'll take a drawing class. I took this drawing class and the first part of the course was how to hold the pencil. How do you draw a straight line? How do you draw a curved line? And it made me realize something. A lot of times when we talk to patients, we're talking to them like they're Picasso, like that they already know how to do all these complicated things and like how these tiny little details will help them. And they don't even know how to hold a freaking pencil.

So we're talking to people like as if they are us, people who've been highly educated in this field, but they don't even know how to hold the pencil yet. So why don't we talk to them about, Hey, does your shoulder hurt? Like we help people who have shoulder pain all the time, get back to being able to lift weights and do all the things they like to do. But instead we focus like we use number two B pencils and we use these sharpeners and we have this kind of colored pencil. And I'm like, dude, I don't even know what that is. I don't even know how to hold a pencil. Can you help me hold the pencil and learn how to draw or not?

I don't care what kind of colored pencils you use. You know what I mean? And, but we, but we do that all the time because we come out of school and, um, we're so focused on like what we know and like all the things that we've done. And we forget that the people who want our services, they don't care. They care. Can you help me with my problem? I don't even know the techniques that you do. Just do whatever you do to make me feel better so I can go do what I want to do in my life. I completely agree. And I mean, it really, and it's going to sound selfish coming from like when you think of it from the patient point of view, but they care about themselves.

They don't care what we are offering, what our skillset is really. I mean, do they even ask you what you are, what your degree is anymore? People, people check, they would check into my clinic and say they're getting physical therapy. Like they didn't even, they had no idea. Like, I don't even know what you are. Are you a chiro? I don't call you a chiropractor. I just call you the guy that helps me get my problems fixed. Like that's what people would say. But think about this. Like when you go to the dentist, do you care what kind of drill bit they use if they're drilling a cavity? Yeah, I just care if it's comfortable really.

Yeah, exactly. Like put yourself, like next time you go get a service, if you get a, probably not a massage, like something different, like, like dentistry is good because we're probably less familiar with dentistry and more familiar with the massage. And think about like, what if the dentist was like, oh yeah, you know, if you come here to get your cavity is like, we use drill bit 77B and we use this kind of like, you're like, dude, can you clean my teeth and get rid of this pain or not? Like, I don't care how you do it. Just that your job is to know what drill you use. My job is to sit there and let you do it.

So is there, is, do you have any training tools that you've used besides drawing that have helped you come to terms that you need to explain better to patients or use their terminology or when, cause did you, I mean, well, how do you, how do you do it? How did you finally learn that? Cause I know you went to business school, so there's gotta be some type of correlation here maybe. Yeah. In business school, I, uh, specifically took a course, um, that was required, but it was called business communications. And, uh, the big, the whole basic concept of that course was explaining people what's in it for them when they deal with you.

So if you're dealing with someone in a business setting, it's like, don't talk about how good you are. Talk about what's in it for the other party. Like, why would you want to work with me? And then I'm going to tell you that. And like, I basically just gave you the benefit of that course in five seconds by saying that that was really the point. And then I had to fill it with other crap, make it last three months, but, um, what's in it for the other person. And then I think just having done this for, you know, a while at this point, I've learned what connects with people and, and what doesn't.

So I had this realization, um, more starkly around black Friday of this previous year. Cause that's like a big day for my business. Okay. And because I sell online products. And so like, if I discount them on black Friday, I sell large quantities, you know? And would you be cyber then? Would you, you'd be cyber Monday, wouldn't you? Actually, you know, it's funny the day after cyber Monday, cause I messed up when the coupon codes ended on my site because like I was in a different country and the time zones are off. And so for some reason that messed things up. And so I emailed my, my email list and I told them like, Hey, you know, the time zones were messed up.

We're going to extend the sale one day. So this was the Tuesday after cyber Monday. And that ended up being bigger sales than black Friday. Oh really? And I was like, well, good thing I messed up. But what do you think the rationale on that is, by the way? People like things last minute, like, Oh, I didn't get it. And I, but now I can cause they messed up. Like probably that. Um, so anyways, I was, I was thinking about like, and I was looking at everyone advertising on, on that weekend, like both people that do similar things to me, other companies. And what I noticed was that there's a big disparity between people who are talking about like, for example, here would be one example that I saw that I, that I was like, I just don't think that's the best way to do it.

It would say this weekend, get 25% off all my programs. I was like, do you know how many layers of like thinking that requires for someone to be like, Oh, I can get 20% off your programs. That means I value you. Now let me go look at what your programs are and figure out how, how can I be so lucky to get 25% off your programs versus something like the way I tried to do it was like, I realized that like maybe my advertising should be somewhat more like creative and interesting than just like talking about what's on sale. So what I did was I made a quote, um, image on my Instagram page. Cause it's like a, you know, it's a really viable platform for this type of thing.

And instead I said like, tomorrow is the day when everyone like tomorrow is the mystical day when everything actually gets done. Okay. Like everyone said, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. And then it was like, and then it said, took me a second actually. Yeah. Tomorrow is the day when everything actually gets done. And then it said, start today on change, like changing your body or something like that. And then it had, you could scroll over and see the different programs and see like the percentage off based on the name of the program. Like get started on working on your shoulders, get started on improving your body composition and get started on like getting your low back feeling better.

Yeah. So doing it like that, because people connect with that message of like, you know what people do wait until tomorrow. Like maybe I should act today. Yeah. So, and then, so that's something that like people could relate to much more than like get 25% off my programs. So it's not a compelling message. It's so, it's so centric on the person doing it. That'd be like, come see me in my clinic because I'm awesome. People are like, okay. But like my shoulder hurts. I don't really care. Yeah. Uh, it just observationally of you, it seems like you observe your surroundings a bit. Um, you know, like you're at the advertisement and so on.

Cause those are things that can like, I mean, I, I know that I did a really poor job of communicating with patients as well as things like, I mean, I'm crap at like Instagram. Um, I'm really bad at reading the other side. What do they want to see? It's more of like what I think would, what do I think would be useful to them, which is not really what's helpful to them. So, I mean, no, I don't, I don't necessarily think that too. I think you have to consider that too. Like as the person putting something out, you, you should, because you are the expert. So you have to know what's useful for them, but you have to package it in a way that like connects to what they want.

The, because like the verbiage of their goal. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like, like people don't know that they necessarily need to like do these particular types of things for their hip or their low back. So it's my job to like put that together in and then communicate it in a way that connects with how they think. So when you write the titling for these programs or at least the introduction for like, say the shoulder program, what's a, like, what's a line you would use that would be patient goal oriented? Well, I think about like, what does the person actually want? And I thought a lot about this too.

Like, okay, like one of the things I'm going to be doing in the future is everyone who's purchased the program, I'm going to give them a questionnaire. And I want to find out why they bought it. Okay. So like, if you think about what motivates someone to purchase something very, okay, as a percentage, I would, and this is my guess, I would guess the two highest reasons that people actually buy something is because they want to get rid of pain or they want to look better. I can agree with that. And then, but then, but then we, we talk about like, you know, like improve your performance. Like, do people really spend money on slightly improving their performance?

Like there's probably some people that do, but I bet the, the more motivated buyers or customers or patients or clients are the ones who want to get rid of some pain that's limiting them or they want to look better. And like, those are the two main drivers. And now I'm going to, I'm going to do a questionnaire to people who bought my shoulder and hip program and ask them like, why did you buy this? Like, what problem were you trying to solve? Okay. Open-ended. You're not going to do multiple choice on this. No, no, I want, I want, I want to hear their words because then I'm going to use their words and put that on the sales page for the shoulder program.

Because if one person buys it because they're trying to like, oh, it's because I couldn't do these lifts overhead without pain. I think there's probably a million people who have that same problem. And if they go look at my shoulder sales page for that program, they're probably going to look to see, will this help me lift overhead without problems? Yeah. And if I don't have that written on there, then they're going to scratch their head and go like, I don't know if this really is going to help me. Versus if I said, one of the things that it can do is help you lift overhead without having problems.

As an example, you know, I don't know what the actual verbiage would be. Yeah. Well, then they'll go, oh, that's me. You're using their verbiage to help sell to the other people. Yeah, exactly. Because like the program will do that. And also like if I just think, you know, I don't know why people are actually buying it. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Maybe they're trying to get stronger. Maybe they're trying to get more mobile. Maybe they're trying to not have pain. Maybe something else that I don't even know about. So the more of those things I can say like this program helps with this and this and this and this and this.

And those are the main seven things that people reasons that people buy the program. Then when I advertise, people go to the page. They'll look and find those things and then they'll be like, oh, this is this is going to help address my problem. I'll buy it. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever tried this before. Like you go into YouTube and like you do, there's the autofill or they do it on Google too. So you put up, you put up, let's say squatting form four and it auto populates. It says for elderly, for men, for women, for athletes. And yeah, keyword, right? Keyword research. We probably done the same thing.

We should talk off air about all this stuff. Actually, we should let them see it. But yeah, it's like the same squatting form. Yeah, exactly. So like you could definitely do like Google keyword research to see the volume of search on certain things. But like this is the kind of stuff that matters. In my opinion, once you've reached a certain level of education and an ability on treating patients or providing people with the service that they need, that's helpful, like this is how you grow your business better. Like you don't grow it by taking only taking more like clinical education courses. Like those are important, but if you want to grow a business, you have to start thinking about this kind of stuff.

Like what's going to drive people in? So then you can grow your business, you can, you'll have more revenue, you could take more stuff, become even smarter and hire other people to do things, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But if you're not understanding why people are seeing you, what's really driving them at the deepest level of motivation, you're probably going to miss out on some ability to get more people into your business. Yeah, I think that's, that's perfect. I think that's what actually a lot of young clinicians need to hear. I didn't realize that till actually a couple of years ago.

I like personally, I was getting a little frustrated with like we would, we were slow one year and I'm like, I feel like I'm so much better clinically. How come people aren't coming? And it wasn't my clinical skills, I don't believe. It was what I relate to them on the outside about how I can help them or what their, if their goals can be addressed here, you know? Yeah. And then I think also just like understanding how advertising works. And like, like you can't do, there's a, there's a thing called, um, hope marketing and like where you're marketing, you're just hoping people will show up. Like, like don't rely on hope marketing.

Yeah. Like you need, you need to actually like have marketing plan in place. So that could be building a network of, um, professionals like massage therapists, other physical therapists, chiropractors, medical doctors, dentists, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You could do digital marketing where you run Facebook ads to, um, some sort of educational content that will educate people on their problem and then lead them to signing up for your services. Um, there's like content marketing where you make good content that's useful. And then you would advertise that locally via Facebook ads or something like that.

Um, yeah, add, add words on Google that leads people to some educational component. And the reason I keep saying educational component is because just because someone goes on your website doesn't mean they're going to convert to becoming a customer or patient. You have to, you have to do something to convince them that you are the one that they should see. And so I don't think that ads should necessarily run directly to a make an appointment button. Cause that's like a big bird. That's like a big barrier. Like I'm looking for someone and then you take me to a page that says make an appointment.

I'd be like, Oh, Hey man, I don't know yet. Like you're kind of moving fast for me here. Like warm me up a little bit. You don't want to do the first date thing. Yeah. So what if someone's like typing in like chiropractor city name, back pain, I would run an ad that would go to a page that was educational on back pain. And then have a, a button that said request more info or like talk to someone about my details or something like that. Cause they're going to go, Oh, okay. This, this actually is helpful. I want to talk more or maybe they do want to make an appointment at that time. But that's definitely different than just like the, about the doctor page or the make an appointment page.

But like thinking about like, what's the route someone's going, like, what are they looking for? How can you educate them on why you're good? And then how do you, how do you then turn them into some patient or client? So have you tried yet? I haven't seen this on any or, uh, things yet, but have you, have you made like a, I think it'd be really useful for having students or at least new grads to have an outline of how to even do stuff like this. Cause honestly, I would assume majority of people listening have no idea. Um, I have another business called health fit business that I, um, started with my good friend and colleague, uh, Anthony Gustin.

We went to school together. He owns several supplement companies now and is doing extremely well for himself. And we started this, uh, thing called health fit business, which started as just a podcast, like 15 to 20 minute, uh, podcasts on business lessons. And then we launched a productivity journal called the daily domination journal, which, um, we just sold out of all of them. So we ordered the, we just made version two, which is called the daily growth journal. And then we have a, um, we have a course on that site on basically how to scale your business systematically. Oh, nice. You're like a combination of chiropractor and Tony Robbins.

I'm not big enough to be Tony Robbins. Like he's like physically extremely large. Well, he's, uh, he, he's been living the lavish life. So yeah, I mean, he, he, he's definitely gone through his fair share of struggles in his early, early time. Like, like he, have you ever read his backstory? No, I have not. Wait, his backstory or his backpack story? Like before he was Tony Robbins, quote unquote Tony Robbins. Not the lumbar story. Oh, no, no, no. I haven't heard. No, I don't know anything about that. Is that why he jumps on that little trampoline? No, I think it's probably because he likes Richard Simmons.

Oh, uh, yeah, I don't know anything about that. But like when he was, when he was younger, he literally had no money. Like he like couldn't even buy food. Yeah. And then, so like he lives a lavish lifestyle now, but like he's been through some, some struggles to get there. Yeah. I think a lot of people though, they, they get to those places and I mean, I'm sure you, you probably work harder than most people that you know, right? I feel like I don't, but maybe I do. I don't know. I have like a weird, like if I, if I had like two hours in the day where I wasn't working, I'd be like, well, I could have worked those two hours.

That's what you, you think that you could have worked more hours. Yeah. Like I'll be like, well, you know, I was kind of lazy cause I could have worked those hours. Like I feel like I'm lazy if I'm not working from like the minute I wake up to the minute I go to sleep, which I know is bad. And like, I have my own like deeply rooted psychological issues that, um, uh, yeah, I don't think it's a terrible thing. Like we just, we just all operated our own frequency. You know what I mean? Like, like Anthony, for example, my business partner with health at business, like I feel lazy when I'm around him.

Like he operates at a higher like level than I do. And like, when I'm around him, I'm just like, I just, like, I can't keep up. Like, that's how I feel. Like it's, it's like, it's motivating, but at the same time, I'm like, I kind of feel bad about myself. It's probably good. Your business partner is in. He's not your roommate, huh? Yeah. Like, yeah. Anyway, so, um, that's, that's a resource that people could look at health fit business. Um, I think we have like 60 episodes on there. I'll link that in the, well, I'll, I'll have to reach back to you to get, uh, links to the free stuff and the podcast.

Yeah. I'll, I'll send you, um, some of that stuff so we can get that linked up for people. But, uh, yeah. So the daily growth journal, we just had, um, we just released that. And basically what we looked at for that was, um, we thought about, okay, like we, we had the first journal and which did well, like we sold, we sold all of them, which is awesome. Very exciting. Um, and then we thought like, okay, how can we make it better? And we thought that, you know, one of the biggest, one of the hardest things for people is, is making change. Like most people fall into doing the same thing every day, more or less.

And they don't think that they can control and change their life as much as they can. So we thought, how can we add in a little P and the other part problem with the journal is most people start it. And then like two weeks later, they just stop because like, it's hard to make that change, right? Cause every day is the same in the journal, right? Like write down these things, write down these things. So we're like, how can we do a couple of things? Number one, how can we show people that they can change things more than they think? And then how do we keep people coming back to the journal every day?

So what we did was we made a unique component to each day that we call the daily challenge. And the daily challenge is something that ideally gets people to do something differently that day than they would normally do. So we broke those up into what are all the categories in that, like affect someone's happiness and their mentality. So for example, there's eating, there's movement, there is being out like in nature, for example, things like that. And then what we did was we started with easy challenges and then we progressed those to more difficult challenges and, um, went through all the different categories.

So for example, one of the daily challenges would be go to the store and buy a vegetable that you've never eaten and eat it. Like, like something that gets people out of their rut. Yeah, I think that's great. That's really good. So, so each day has that. And then, and then, um, the other component of each day is what are the two most important things that you get done today? Not 10. What are the two? Like if you went to bed and today was successful, what two things would those be? And those two things should not be things that you would normally do. They should be things that help you grow. Like there's a difference between maintaining and performing your business and doing things to grow and change your business.

And you should constantly be doing things to grow and change and improve your business. So that's what those two things would be. And then there's a list for all the tasks that you, that you need to do. And then there's a, an agenda on the right side. So you can time block the different aspects, like the different parts of your day so that you can then put the two things in those time blocks. So you actually schedule time to work on them because if you don't schedule it, you're not going to do it probably. And then there's an area for reflection on, did you get those things done? And if not, why?

And what can you do tomorrow to make sure that you're able to progress? Like what was your roadblock? Like why were you not able to do it? So you can actually reflect and get feedback to something you can change for the next day. So that's like what the template of the journal looks like. That's cool. So when you wanted to find a reason for them to come back, it's almost like when you added those things, it's kind of like you're having a relationship with your journal. It's on a single sided like. Yeah, exactly. Oh, it's cool. Um, just question on that is, is I don't know if you've gotten feedback from people who have used it or not.

What's the, what's the most common answer for the roadblocks? Oh, we haven't, we haven't formally launched the new journal yet. Like it's in the warehouse, but we're waiting on some photo renders to get those on the sales page. And then we're going to launch it out. So like we haven't had people go through that part yet. Oh, cool. I'd be interested to see. I can guess some, but I don't know if it'll be right. That's a really good question. Actually. I haven't, I hadn't thought about that, but, um, yeah, based on that feedback, then we could probably figure out some helpful material to get people to be able to push those roadblocks.

So that's a really good idea. Right. Yeah. I, I bet like I bet day after day, especially during the week, like Monday through Friday, people are going to have the same, the same exact roadblock. And it's almost like if, if that's a consistent thing that's happening, it's like that, it's almost like stop, don't continue, don't pass, go, don't collect $200, address this or else this thing's going to be useless, you know? Yeah, exactly. And that's why, that's why we like made sure to include that in the journal. So like, if you didn't do those things, like take this time to figure out why, so you can problem solve your own issues so then you can push forward.

Yeah. But like, yeah, if we got that info from people about what they identified as the roadblocks and maybe in the forward or in some other thing, we could like save people weeks of frustration by like implementing some sort of method earlier on. That'd be great. That's a great idea, actually. Oh, good. I can't wait to see when it comes out. That's going to be cool. I do have a journal by my bed, but it's blank. I'll send, I'll send you one after the, after the show. Um, I'll get your address. We'll send you a book. Awesome. So it'll ship, it'll ship today, actually. Will it really? Yeah. So you'll actually have it before this airs.

Heck yeah, I will. I'm going to have to have, uh, I'll probably have about two months worth of entries. Yeah. I'll get your feedback on what your roadblocks are. Yeah. I'm going to try to not make it time. No time. What do you mean? Uh, I figured, oh, oh yeah. People say like, oh, there was no time. I was too busy. Um, yeah. Which is like that. That's like a hint that like your prioritization and time management skills are terrible. So, so then correlating this back to injuries and I'm sure you have like, so you probably went down this route a little bit too, because people that have injuries, they have the same, I mean, it, I know it's not the same, uh, it's not the growth journal as much probably, but is there a correlation over to injury, uh, recovery and this mental process?

Well, I'm actually going to make a thing called the 30 day health journal. Um, at some point that's going to like, this is kind of related to what you're talking about, but, um, if people just measured like, how do I feel in the morning when I wake up? What time did I go to bed? What time did I wake up? How much water did I drink? What did I eat today? And like, you put all of that into a journal, like as a clinician, that would actually be really useful for me to know. Like if I could get people to, to track those things for a couple of weeks and then I could look at that, I could be like, dude, you probably aren't recovering because you're eating like crap and you're not sleeping very well.

Like maybe that has more to do with your recovery than like your shoulder exercises. Like that stuff's really important. Um, but I don't know if that addresses your question. No, it does. It does. Cause I know that like, like all, I'll find that there's a lot of people have these, these unsaid barriers of the reasons why they didn't do the rehab exercise or the, why they didn't address their pain triggers. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, yeah. Getting into the deeper psychological reason of why compliance of exercises is so low. Like maybe people don't see the, like, well, I do these extra, you know, the number one reason why I get asked for refunds on my shoulder program is because they didn't do it.

It didn't, it didn't work for me. Okay. Well, did you do it? Well, I did like the first week, dude. I tell them, I'm like, I'll give you a refund, but you have to do the whole program. Yeah. Like I'm not going to give you a refund unless you do the whole program. Do you, because do you have threads on that actually? Cause I was reading one of your, uh, I was watching one of your YouTube videos today and some guy said there was a, there was actually, it was a great video with, uh, running specific exercises. And then don't tell me about the comments, man. I don't want to know about my YouTube comments.

I don't look at the comments. Oh no, you responded to this one. It was just funny and very direct. The guy said this exercise is worthless. No, he said this exercise is worthless. And your response was, no, it's not. So you just didn't let it slide. You're just like, no, this is correct. Sorry. Did I say that? That's actually really funny. Yeah. I'll screenshot it. Okay. Yeah. Just first of all, number one, don't read YouTube comments. I turned the notifications off. So I, cause like when I go into YouTube to like upload a video, I would see like the little red notifications. I'd be like, crap, now I have to look at these.

And then I would look and I'd start to feel bad about myself. So I just turned them off. Like, so there's no, I don't even know what comments go in anymore. Like, I don't want to know. I thought you were talking about the one it was on this running video I did. It's like, it's funny. Like I, I run a little bit, but I'm by no means like a running expert, but I made this running warmup video. I saw that one. The five minute dynamic warmup for running or something. Like I looked the other day and it had 500,000 views on YouTube. And I was like, I'm not like a running expert. I just made like a running is just really popular, I guess.

And one of the comments was, take your pants off, please. And I said, and I wrote, maybe next time. Yeah. And, and like, I thought that's what you're going to refer to. It's like, people are, people are really weird. I know. I don't know the age of these people who are, go ahead. People who comment on YouTube, like, don't listen to their opinions. Like, yeah, as a general rule, don't people's Facebook, like, you can read Facebook comments and they're meaningful because it's attached to someone's actual like profile and like who they really are. But if you can be anonymous, like on YouTube or Twitter, like if you can be anonymous and leave a comment, you shouldn't listen to anonymous comments because people would not leave, leave those same comments if they, people actually knew who they were.

Right. So moral of this story. Um, but yeah, like, look, I used to be really hesitant about making content. And, um, I, this is something that, um, I get quite a few people comment, like, um, they'll ask me about like their hesitancy to putting out good content online. Is there afraid of the criticisms they'll get? Right. So like, that's a common thing. So if you're listening to this and that's something that you feel like, guess what? You're in good company. A lot of people feel that way. And I used to hate posting videos cause I was like, Oh crap, what are people going to say? I checked the comments.

How many thumbs down did I get? And I would like attach my self value to that. But over time I realized, you know what? If you put out good stuff, people are going to hate it no matter what. Right. There's going to be haters and trolls everywhere. So. Yeah. So that's why the guy does exercise isn't useful. So I said, yeah, it is. I can almost hear your voice. Like when, when it was coming through on there actually, cause I just heard about like about three podcasts in a row. Yeah. Yes, it is. Yeah, it is. It's good. And like the fact that you don't understand that, like go figure it out. Go figure out why it's good, man.

You know, but you know, actually don't go, go ahead. I'll tangent in a second here. Go ahead. I was going to say like, if you're, if you can make content that's going to help people, like you have to realize number one, there will always be people who don't like it. And number two, you have the right to give your opinion. And just because someone doesn't like your opinion, like if you make content with the goal of having everyone like it, no matter what, like you will never reach that goal. Instead, you should think I'm going to make stuff that's going to help people. And I understand people, some people won't like it.

Yeah. If you go in with that mentality, then you won't be so afraid. But if you go like, well, is someone, someone's going to think I'm dumb. Of course, somebody's going to think you're dumb. Like there's so many people in the world and there's a lot of people who think they know everything. But what's ironic is like when I see other people make content, content, I don't ever watch it and go like, oh, this person's dumb. I go, dude, I'm glad these people are putting themselves out there. Yeah. It's tough. It's really tough. The people who are going to criticize you are the ones who are too afraid to do it themselves.

And so should you really let that stop you? Like those people are too afraid to make their own stuff or to put their own opinions out there in a public forum. So what they do instead is they sit back and criticize because they don't have the cojones, let's say, to do it themselves. So they have to tear other people down. And like that's their psychological mechanism. So if you want to make content, go make content, put it out there and be proud of it. I totally agree. I think that like I know that I know the thing that I thought before is like, so I got frustrated in the past that people would come in and have very little knowledge about like, like I had this one lady one time, she didn't know what a joint was.

And I'm like, holy crap, I don't even like, I don't even know where to start with this lady. But putting stuff out, like I feel like if we want to be a good change in the world for injuries or injury prevention, whatever the heck we're trying to do, put your shit out there, you know, like you can't, you can't complain about it if you haven't done something to correct it and you're going to get criticism, like you said. Well, and I think too, you have to remember like, who are you trying to educate? Like people, a lot of times they'll be hesitant to put out content because they think other clinicians will think they're dumb.

Well, are you making content for other clinicians or are you making content for people who don't know as much as you about your area of expertise? Getting back to my drawing class brought this full circle. Getting back to my drawing class. Are you, did you draw anything yet, by the way, that wasn't, that wasn't copied? Um, not yet. I'm not at that point. Oh, cause, cause I'm curious about the creativity because you can't copy something, right? You got to actually. No, I know. That's why it's really hard. Okay. Um, so I need, like, I feel like in order to do that, I want to develop my skills so I can actually like better express myself.

Um, the way I express my creativity now is like making the workshop that I teach, making the book, making these programs. Cause I have to literally make them out of my own head, but the actual drawing, I just don't feel like I have the fundamental skills yet. Yeah. So getting back to the drawing, um, the guy was saying like, Hey, you know what? Like I'm going to have you do all these, these exercises and drills and, and they're, they're going to be easy. And you know why they're going to be easy? Cause they're supposed to be easy. Like they're not complicated. They're easy because you need to practice.

And if you don't practice, you're not going to get good at it. And I think about the same thing too. Like one of the criticisms that people would have with my videos, like, Oh, these, these, these concepts are so basic. It's like, yeah. You know why? Because people who don't know this stuff need basic concepts and I'm not making it for someone who already has a PhD in physiology or PhD in kinesiology. I'm making for the, this, for the person who has back pain or shoulder pain and they don't really know what to do about it and they don't know why I'm trying to educate those people. I'm not trying to, like the PhD, you already know what you need to know.

Like, yeah, no, I totally agree. Like there's, I mean, it's going to be a whole different, like you probably can't, you can't serve both audiences in that. You got to target. No, absolutely not. Yeah. Although you can't actually, I think indirectly you can serve the PhD audience because, um, or the, the clinical audience because, uh, one of the pieces of feedback I get from, cause I'll get a, I'll get a fair amount of chiros and PTs and, um, um, kinesiologists and things who take one of my courses in person. And they're like, it was a lot of good review, which was great. But the thing I took away the most was how you explain it simply.

So they actually take away the communication skills of how to dumb it down, so to speak, which is, which is helpful because maybe, maybe, you know, you get in your own head and you make things so complicated, you forget how to explain it to someone who doesn't know anything. Yeah. I think if we can't communicate what we're, what we're trying to do, we're not going to help anybody, you know? So. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I, um, what's your, what's your turnout on, on your, uh, on your seminars or workshops right now? Um, patients or athletes or, or clinicians? What's the spread? Uh, yeah, it's probably like 50% trainers.

So you, so you still, go ahead, go ahead. Sorry. 50, probably like probably around 50% personal trainers slash coaches slash, um, like people that work with people in that context. And then, um, 25% professional like chiropractor, PT, MD, and then probably 25% like fitness enthusiast. So when you have that spread in there, what, what audience or what common denominator, what terminology do you speak to? Um, what I'll do is I'll use, I'll frequently use technical terms followed up immediately by the, um, non-technical term. So I'd be like, you know, if you're going to go up into shoulder flexion or raising your arm up overhead.

To use a couple of references. Yeah. Or I'll like, I'll, I'll say like, and if you have sheer forces through your spine and then I'll like position my hands in a way that does sheer and then move them in that way. So then like, like if you think about how people learn a language. So one of the other things I'm trying to do right now is learn to speak Spanish fluently. So I'm taking some, like, like I lived in South America for a while. Like I have a lot of Spanish background, but I'm trying to become more fluent and like think about how do people learn languages? Like you don't learn it by memorizing words.

Like if I said sheer force, the way that you would learn it would be like seeing what that looks like and then associating the word with that thing. So I'll try to like use those for like, if I know that people don't know what sheer force is, then I try to explain it in a way that helps them to like see it or follow up that word with something else that allows them to like associate it. Oh, nice. That's good. Or like when I express, explain, explain like what a stress strain curve is, which most people, even clinicians don't really understand what a stress strain curve is. I'll explain it in a way that speaks to every, like at the most basic level.

So like knowing what, like that's hard part is like knowing what do people know? What do people not know? Because you can't teach something to someone if you don't know what they, if you don't have an idea of what that person already knows and then what they don't know. Because like if you, if you're trying to explain like an advanced concept, but people don't understand the simple concept, like they're not going to understand the advanced concept. So it's challenging, like communicating in a way that helps people really understand it. It's hard. Yeah, I agree. And especially in the different population sets.

Yeah. I mean, that is the biggest challenge. Like I have someone who's like highly advanced technically and then someone who isn't and then trying to teach both people. Like people will get what they get from it, but I'll try to do the best I can to speak at both levels. Yeah. I always try to observe, um, advertisements of like say Tide or Chevy, or you look at the news and like the way they have stuff formatted in the terminology they use, um, because they're selling to general, general population. Like that is the common denominator now, you know? So, um, I take observations from that. Yeah.

And we're all selling to the general population. Like, yeah. I mean the majority of us. Can, can you tell everyone what you're going to do in the future? Cause I know you got some things planned. Yeah. I wish I, I wish I knew the future better. That's actually like, is that your next thing you're going to learn? No. Um, so I'm, I'm trying to complete, like I have this, I have this vision in my head of what I want all of the programs I want to offer on the movement fix to be. So I need to, I want to finish building out that product lineup. Um, so one of the things I'm working on right now is a, um, I'm finishing a pro, a program that I wrote, co-wrote with, um, John Russon, who is a physical therapist and strength coach, like hypertrophy specialist.

And, um, that program, I wanted a program that was like aimed at building muscle, like bodybuilding style, but also included functional fitness type stuff. So that's what that program is. Um, and then after that, and probably by the time this podcast goes out, um, I'm going to launch a subscription service called, um, well, I don't, I'll, I'll release the name when I release the name, but basically it'll be like, it'll basically be like you log in and then there's a 15 minute movement routine that you, that you do that day. Oh, kind of like a, like a flow, but not a yoga flow. Yeah, exactly. Cool.

Are you going to be demonstrating it or somebody else? I'm going to do it for the beginning. Are you going to take your shirt off like John does? Just John Russon take his shirt off? Yeah. He's got a bunch of pictures of his shirt off. Instagram. Maybe if I get as buff as John, I'll do it. I'm working on it. Yeah. Um, actually, you know what? I used to be in much better shape and then I hurt my back really bad, like a couple of years ago. Um, which I did a podcast on movement fix podcast about my own back pain and like, dude, that's something to mess you up. Like really threw me through a, through a wrench in the old system.

But, um, are you still getting over that now? By the way? Um, I did hear that podcast of yours. Oh no, I'm a hundred percent now. Like I can, I can do anything now. Um, at the time though, I thought I was going to have to live with it the rest of my life. I think it's episode number 50 or 51. Um, for someone, you know, for some reason I'll say 40, 42, but I might be wrong. Man, I think it was 42 and a half. Um, no, that was, yeah, that was a really like bad phase of my life. Honestly, like depression, like changing body composition for the negative, like no motivation. Like it really messes you up to have chronic low back pain.

Like I can say that firsthand. Um, but I was able to completely get rid of, like, I don't have, I never have back pain now, like ever. Um, and I can deadlift as heavy as I want. Like I never thought that that would actually be able to do that again. Um, but so I'm going to, so I decided like, well, I took a poll of what people wanted and one of the most commonly requested things was like a daily thing to do would be great. Like sort of, you know, people have the app Headspace or other meditation apps where there's like a 10 or 15 minute meditation to do each day. And I think, you know, if we could get people to do 10 to 15 minutes of movement each day, that would be really helpful for like thousands of people.

So, um, I didn't feel like there was a solution out there that existed that I, that I would want to do myself. So I'm going to make it. Um, and so what I'm going to do is, so coming up in March is the, um, CrossFit open and it's really hard for me. And this is part of understanding your own business too. So previously I used to schedule workshops during March and they would always do really bad and I'd feel bad about myself. I'm a failure. I suck. No one wants to come. Um, but I was like, it's cause it's doing the CrossFit open. Everyone, everyone that would like normally take my courses busy doing that.

Right. So I decided like, I'm not going to schedule courses during that time in the U S so instead what I'm doing is I'm going to South America. I'm going to go there for six weeks. Um, I'm going to teach one course in Buenos Aires, one course in Chile. And then the rest of the time I'm going to write out like three or four months worth of movement routines for my subscription. I'm going to, I'm going to do them and see what I think and then modify and adjust them. Then I'm going to come back to the U S I'm going to record all the videos. And then simultaneous, like I have to figure out what the delivery mechanism would be in the beta.

Um, and then I'm going to make those. I'll figure out how to deliver them maybe via email and maybe via some like login portal and all, um, like I'm going to use some of the funds that I get from launching the course with or the program that John and I make the one I was just describing. I'm going to use those funds to pay for like a redesign of the branding of everything as well as the building out of the portal. And then I'll do that and then I'll launch that. I'll figure out how to get more subscribers and then probably I'll hire someone to be the demo person in the videos and I'll do the writing and the programming and the coordination of it.

But that's like sort of my thought process currently of how I want to implement that. Are you, are you going to try to do a, so your beta test of it, you're going to have part of your email list do it or just get feedback? Yeah. What I'm going to do is, um, I'm going to launch it to my email list and they can sign up to be grandfathered in at a slightly lower price than what the actual normal price will be. I'll have them go through that first like 60 to 90 days, get their feedback and then use that feedback to make it better. Um, and then what I'll, and then at that point I'll start running like Facebook ads and things like that to get more subscribers.

Oh, so you're going to pop up all over my Facebook feed. You probably won't, here's the thing though, you probably won't realize at the time that I'm going to, that I'm selling you my subscription. That's, that's perfect. That's what you want, right? Yeah. Like, like interestingly, I made this video last year called move every joint every day and it was a basic routine on just how to like move all your joints. Okay. And, um, it was pretty popular video. I got a lot of, you know, good feedback on it. And so what I did was I, I made all, I made it into like a downloadable PDF that showed like all the movements cause it was like 13 movements is a lot.

Um, so I sent that to my designer and had her design a good document and then I made it a download that you could enter your email address in to get it. And then I ran Facebook ads that it, the Facebook ad was the video, but on Facebook there's a thing where like people can enter their email address on Facebook and like, yeah, I forget what it's, I forget the type of ad that it's called, but like, so the video would be playing, it'd be a sponsored post. And then it said, get the free guide by entering your email address below. So then people would enter that in. And then I had to set up this service called Zapier, Zapier, whatever it's called.

Um, so that Facebook would connect to my email service. And then, so people would enter their email address. It would zap over to my email software and then that would set off an automation that would then send them the PDF via email. Um, and I was getting like email addresses for like 10 cents. Yeah. That, and that, that takes out the, uh, they don't have to go to your site either. No, they don't have to go to the site, but I get their email address. So then like eventually what I'll do is I'll probably run that ad, collect their email address. Cause I know they're interested in moving every joint every day and then I'll give them a coupon code for a free seven day trial to the subscription or something like that.

Like that's what the ad will probably look like, but I'll test it and see if it converts. And if it doesn't convert, then I'll figure out a different way to run the ad. Yeah. Well, that's, uh, just observationally that the things that you seem to be working well for you, at least we talked about today. Uh, I know that the, the, the running warmup one, like that was just follow along. It was almost like, it reminds me of like Tony, Tony Horton type of stuff where you just follow along. Yeah. People don't want to think like, yeah, that's why Pandora is popular. Like that's why Pandora was such a popular, that's why cable TV has always been popular.

Like just flip the channels and find something versus like, if you're on Netflix, it's like, it's good. But at the same time, it's like, I have to like find what I want. And like people, people are lazy. That's funny because I'd actually hand the controller away from me cause I don't want to look at Netflix in search. Yeah, exactly. Because like, and that's why people like cable. It's like, just let someone else decide what I should watch. Yeah, that's cool. Cause I was, go ahead, go ahead. I was going to say like, that's why I was deciding on like different models of how to do this subscription service.

Like I could do it where it's like, there's a deadlift part. There's like a overhead lifting part. There's, and I was like, you know what? People just want to be told what they should do. Yeah. There, there was, and so I'm going to do, I'm going to put in the energy and the effort to figure it out for everybody else that wants to like just move, but they don't know exactly what to do so that they don't have to think about it. And part of what they're paying for is so that they don't have to think about it. Cause so that I can use my expertise of things that I've studied. To decide what I think would be good.

And then people are like, I just want to pay for you to tell me what to do and show me how to do it. Genius. That's why people pay trainers. They don't want to think, right? Yeah. And you know what? I don't expect people to like the general population who would benefit. And like, I'm not saying that other people wouldn't benefit from this product for sure. Like trainers will, PT's will, Kyra's will, MD's will. Because like, that's the area that I focus on most is like, what are the things that you can do daily to stay healthy? And like, I don't expect everyone else to have the time or the energy to like figure that out for themselves.

Cause they're doing their own stuff. Yeah. Just like, I don't have time to make a computer, which is why I pay Apple for a computer. Like I let them figure it out and then I pay for it. Like, could I, could I figure out how to make a computer? Probably I'd have to spend a lot of time figuring out how to do it, but I could, or I could just pay a company that focuses on doing it. Like, but you can work on your creativity by trying to put the circuits together. Choose your battles, you know? How does everyone get on your email list by the way? Cause it sounds like something that people would want.

There's a couple of ways to get on the email list. The easiest way is to either go to the, on the start here page on the movementfix.com or there's also a, if you go to the movementfix.com, you'll see on the menu, there's a thing that says resources and then under resources, there's eBooks. And so there's different programs that you can submit your email address to, and then you'll get put on the email list that way. And you'll also get a free like resource. Nice. I got to go on your email list actually too, cause I'm, I'm interested of the flow of it. Well, there's a difference between like being on the email list and getting like updates to the blog and, um, get put, going on the email list for a specific thing.

So what I mean by that is, and this is something I'm building out and I'll have, and I'll have it done by the time this launches. So I'll share it. I have like 200 videos I've made on YouTube. That's a lot. In fact, it was like, I stopped making videos because I felt like I made everything that I knew. Um, but the problem isn't making more videos. It's getting more people to see the videos. Yes. Getting, getting the content out to more people. So, um, what I'm going to do is curate and highly organize the content. So then what'll happen is someone would go to the site and somehow, so they'd either go there because they saw something or there's an ad or something like that.

And they could opt into a free email course. So let's say, let's say you're having shoulder problems. You see a thing on Facebook. Hey, are you having issues with your shoulder? Learn more about your shoulder with our free course. Click here or enter your email address. Then what I'll do is I'll set up like seven or 10 emails to send out in an automation. So you would enter your email address. And then what I did on the backend was I took all of the videos and content I've made about shoulders, put it into a mini email course. So like, Hey, you know, one of the, this would be like the email, like one of the big muscles that attaches to your shoulder that can cause problems is the lats.

Here's a video that we made on our blog about the basic anatomy of the lats, how they attach from your low back to your shoulder. And then here's a video on how to stretch your lats and like a routine you can do to stretch your lats and work on them. Then the next day would be like, Hey, sometimes like what can be really helpful for people strengthening their upper back and their shoulder muscles. Here's a, here's a banded shoulder exercise routine that, that you can use. Then another day would be another thing. So then what you're doing, and then eventually I try to sell them my shoulder program, of course.

So then it'd be like, Hey, do you want a structured program? We offer a 12 week structured program. We also have a, um, a video course about the shoulder. Yeah. Okay. So then what I would do is I'd run ads, see how much it costs to get an email address, see, and the program sells for a hundred dollars. How much does it cost me in ads to get one person to buy the program? So if it costs me less than a hundred dollars, then I'm running a profitable Facebook funnel. Okay. Um, but in the meantime, if someone doesn't buy it, guess what? I'm educating them like in a really good way. So even if they don't buy it, like I'm still educating a lot of people on their shoulders and their health and movement and stuff.

But I have to make that funnel profitable so I can spend money on the Facebook ads and like continue doing what I'm doing and not starve. So, um, but I already have all those, all that content. So what I'm focusing on now is how do I organize? So like you could go on my email address through my shoulder mini course and you'll get that funnel. And then once that funnel's done, then you'd go into my regular email list and get my weekly updates. So it depends on where you go in on what you'll get. Nice. I like it. That's actually, that's, that's an important skill that I think all, uh, healthcare providers should, if they blog or if they do videos, they should probably know this kind of stuff anyways.

Also, no, I think, I think too, like, even if you just see patients, because what if instead of running ads to a page that said request an appointment, you put together a little mini email sequence on back pain and you educated people who were potential patients on their back pain. And then in those emails, you had a call to action to make an appointment, right? Like that's what I would do. If I was, if I was trying to grow a physical clinic, that's what I would do. Yeah, for sure. One, I mean, I would do a lot of other things too, but like one thing that I would do would be put together basic educational content, run ads locally about back pain, like the three most common conditions, have people enter their email address to get more information, send them emails sequentially about those conditions and then have calls to action.

And the thing about that is once you set it up, it's done. Like that, that is like a free employee. I'm going to, I'm going to have to re-listen to this part of the podcast because I got about 350 YouTube videos. Yeah. And we got the same problem, I think. The videos are out there, but it just is not, they don't always, they don't always hit. I always, I always think it's like a one in 30. You get one that just catches traction, but the other ones are great, but they just don't go anywhere. I think like as the content creator, it is your job to organize the content in a way that's useful for people.

It's not just making a video that people can watch on YouTube. It's like, what do you do with that video? This is why I'm not a big fan of like making a lot of content on Instagram. Like, okay, you can grow a big following on Instagram. That's great. But like if you spend all your time making videos specifically for Instagram, number one, you're limited by the arbitrary one minute length. Right. Okay. And guess what? Not everything can be explained in one minute. So that's why I make all my stuff on YouTube and then I'll, I'll drive people from Instagram to YouTube or to my site. Like that was intentional.

Um, but then I can use those YouTube videos to further educate people in the future. Like, that's what I think people forget is like, they don't just live on YouTube, like find creative ways to use things that you've created to educate people because the more that you can educate someone, the more likely there'll be a client or customer of yours. Right. So as, as we start to clean up here, cause I know that we, we can probably go forever on, these are, these are awesome topics for people to know. Um, how would you like to recap this? Is there any couple of things you'd like to, uh, for the clinicians to know who are listening, uh, things you think they should be aware of as they continue throughout their day?

I think that you can, you can, yeah, no, I think that like an important sentiment is like you can change things more than you think, but you have to change what you do to do that. Like if you're not happy with your circumstance, either you're not generating as much revenues you want or, or whatever, you have to do something different than what you're currently doing. Like, and I know that sounds simple, but like that actually looks like doing something different than you normally do. It's like, if your day today is the same as it was yesterday and tomorrow's the same, like you need to introduce different things and it's hard to envision the future being different until you're there.

So it's like, Oh, is this really going to work? It's like, yeah, this stuff works. I think the daily growth journal is going to be, yeah, do Facebook, do Facebook ads really work? Yeah. You have to test them. Not every Facebook ad works, but like people think that Facebook ads don't work. Yeah. Like, Oh, I did, I did Facebook ads. They didn't work. Okay. How much did you spend? I spent $10 a day, dude. It's not enough. Like how much, what's the lifetime value of the customer if you acquire them via Facebook? Uh, I don't know. Well then how much do you know? How do you know how much to spend on an ad?

What if the lifetime value of a customer is $400, but you only spend $10 a day on Facebook? It's going to take you 40 days to even spend as much as you would have earned from one conversion. Like, like that's, it's almost a month and a half. Right. Don't, I read this quote once. It was like, it said, don't let a high schooler outspend you on Facebook. Like there's like, there's like 18 year olds that are like spending like $1,000 a day on Facebook ads. And we're like, we have doctorates and we run businesses and we, we spend $10 a day. Yeah. That's funny. True. True too. Like this kid's taking his lunch money and outspending you on Facebook ads.

Right. Like they work, but you have to test them and you have to look at the analytics. We have to hire someone that does this kind of stuff for you. Do you do it on your own actually? Or do you hire someone? I do it. I do it on my own right now because I want to learn everything about it. Okay. And that's part of my business background in school. I'm like, I had a business degree, but there's different types of business degrees. Mine was the management of information systems in business. So maybe that explains some of this stuff, but like, so like I had to take programming classes. I had to take database classes and learn like SQL and how to write macros and like how to program in certain languages, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So the whole premise of my degree was learn enough about a topic so that you can hire someone to do it, but you understand how it works. And like, I don't feel like I've mastered this enough yet to hire someone because I would, I want to know it better first. Once I understand it better, then I'll hire someone to do it. But I want to learn it because I think it's a valuable skill to have. It's like not understanding the basis of accounting, but hiring an accountant. Like I'm not my own accountant. I have an accountant who does all my bookkeeping, but I want to know enough about accounting. So when he sends me stuff, I understand it.

Like I want to know enough about the ads so that when I hire an ad company to do it, I can look at it and I understand it because then I can be like, Hey, why aren't you guys doing this? Or why is this number off? Like, but I actually know what it means. But if you don't take the time to learn those things yourself, then you're just trusting that that person's being honest with you. Like people would tell me like back in the day, like people would, I'd have like a web developer and be like, Oh, it's going to cost $300 to fix this thing. Like little did I know all they were doing was going in and like unclicking one box in settings.

Like that's literally what they were doing, but I didn't know enough about websites at that point to know that. And then I figured it out myself. I was like, you son of a bitch. Like it took you two seconds to do that, but I didn't know enough. So like program I took in business school, it was like, you need to know enough about everything so that if a developer tells you it's going to take 10 hours, you could be like, no dude, I know enough. It's going to take you one hour. Like you're not getting 10 hours to do this. You and I both know that's BS. I want you to upload five pictures. Well, that's going to be 10 hours, man.

Yeah. Right. That's kind of what, that's basically what it's like for this one. Well, it's going to take us a lot of time to get in there. No, it's not. You log in, you push the freaking button. Yeah. But I didn't know, you know, I didn't know that because I was blind to it. So I don't like being blind to areas of my business. I want to know how it all fits together, how it all works. And then you can delegate that work or automate it accordingly. Good. Well, I like, I like it. You got a lot of good shit to share, I got to say. So you remind me of like some of the things I think off the side. Obviously we think clinically and patient-based, but there's ways to get people to that relevant information.

So important shit. Yeah, it is really important stuff. How can everyone reach you? Yeah. So the easiest way to follow me would be on Instagram at TheMovementFix or TheMovementFix.com and getting on the email list. And the easiest way to get on the email list is just go to the about page. Or if you want to go through one of my educational funnels, by the time this podcast launches, those should be available under the resources tab on my site. So if you want to like go through that and see what it looks like. And then if I don't make it by then, you'll know that I didn't do it. There's a lot of priorities that compete in my own time management skills.

This podcast is now a deadline, really. May 19th, I think. Well, part of what I... I think it's actually really helpful sometimes. Like I said, I'm going to South America and I have objectives. Like I am not leaving until I get these things done. And one of those things is my education funnels. So I'm either still in South America or I'm like dead or I did it or I don't know. So the next podcast after this is going to be What Happened to Ryan DeBell? He just dropped off the face of the earth. Yeah, man. It's been a crazy year. Well, cool. This was amazing. I'm glad we finally got on. I know we've been back and forth a little bit, but I think it's really...

Sorry, I was like very elusive. Oh, so it's okay. You got back to me originally on the... Actually, I interviewed McGill right after that and... Oh, that's right. That's why we originally started emailing, I think. Yeah, that's actually how I found you because I was searching around. I was like, well, what else has... Before I interview someone, typically I go and listen. I bulk listen to everything, watch everything and yours popped up. And it was just very seamless. And that's why I wanted to hear or talk to you. But yeah, interviewing people is not easy. You're very talented at it. So you've obviously put work into it.

Oh, thanks. Well, you're great. You dig super deep. You get into those secondary and third level questions, which I don't know if you have a flow for your podcast. I have no flow. Yeah. I just ask people what I want to know. Yeah. I think if you look at some of the best podcasts, I think that the Joe Rogan podcast is really good. And I think he does a really good job because he just asks things he wants to know. And then if something doesn't make sense, he's like, well, tell me about that. But if you follow a specific flow and you're not open to how the conversation naturally unfolds, it's really hard to listen to because it's not natural.

And that's what I think. You do that. Well, who knows? You start recording a podcast, you don't know where it's going to go. No. I mean, I have an idea of what... My idea, let's just say when we started this one, it's like, I think Ryan can share a ton of information about how to build a podcast and Instagram, sell online courses and so on. And... Yeah. It's not like defined questions because then if the conversation goes in one way, then you ask like this predefined question that's like irrelevant and it's like, whoa. Yeah. Right. It's got to flow. It can't be like an awkward first date. Yeah.

Those aren't good. Well, cool. Thank you so much for being on. Yeah. Thanks for having me. This is really fun. And I hope a lot of, you know, I hope people got, you know, something out of this and hopefully it either motivated you to change what you're doing or think about like what you're doing in a different way. And I think we're going to put a coupon code in the show notes for, well, what I can do is I'll give you a code to put in the show notes for a discount on the daily growth journal as well as on the programs if people want to check those out for whatever reason. Maybe they want them for themselves or they want to model it for some of their patients or whatever.

Yeah. That'd be great. I can't wait till mine comes in because I hope it's that, because I'm looking at your Skype picture right now and it's got this cream jacket and you're staring so lovingly back into, is that going to be in the front of it? I have a Skype picture. You do have a Skype picture. I have one too. I'm probably here. Hold on. I get a backpack on. Yeah, you do. Like if you're exploring the world, you explore. No, is, is, am I like in a suit jacket? You're in a suit jacket with a blue under shirt. Ooh, you went two buttons down. You didn't just do single button, right? It's getting crazy.

Right. I bet you were at a wedding, someone's wedding. No, it was actually a photo shoot. That's a whole different story that we just don't have time to get into. Right. Wow. That was good stuff, huh? I could have actually talked about that for a very long time because content creation is, is my thing as well. I love it. But it is like he, like you heard him say, like he posts it and sometimes they don't get traction. So it's our job as providers to really improve the visibility of what we believe is good information. So it's, it's hard. It's, it's, I don't want to say it's hard stuff. It's just foreign to us.

You know, Facebook ads, Google ads, click funnels, things like that. Like those are all things that we should learn. And if you guys are new students or new students, new graduates, new doctors, like these are the things you have to, you have to know. And it might seem like, Hey, I'm starving. I got student loans. I got to get people on the door. Yeah. But you know, these are like, if you have content to share, if you have information, information to share, this is why we got into this profession is to share things, share information with the public so we can better educate them. And we are their guide.

Basically it's, we're not doing them a good service if we don't guide them to the right solutions. And sometimes getting there takes a little bit of education on their part, as well as lowering the communication. I don't want to say lowering, it sounds bad, but putting communication at their level. So if you're looking for the show notes on this, click on, you go to performance place or p2sportscare.com slash 86. You'll have a transcription there as well as any of the links that we spoke about as well. Don't forget to visit Dr. Ryan at his website. Go through his, go through his, uh, his email list.

Um, even if you're a doc, I'd suggest going on there because just observe, this is what I do with people. I just go on and observe and see the way they're communicating. Cause that is what half the bell is. Like I said, if you're looking for all the posters, the paraphernalia, um, as well as the education materials that I have for you that I designed, designed for ideally myself first. Um, and then I thought you guys would want it too. Those are all on the website, p2sportscare.com slash shop. And don't forget, be good to each other. Leave everyone better than how you found them. Talk to you next week.