Lessons from three months into a new chiropractic practice

I got way better. In the beginning, I was the same thing. I had my worries, had my doubts. But if you do due diligence and you take your time in the exam, don't rush it. They actually force you to rush it in school clinic, which is super annoying. So now I have all the time in the world. I take my time. I do all of the necessary steps to make sure that the person's safe to go through with treatment. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales.

Hey, everyone. It's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales, your host for the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for joining the Movement Movement. If this is your first time to show, welcome. Thanks so much for joining me. And today we're going to have a guest for the next hour or so. And just to clarify what this podcast is all about, if this is your first time, is originally this podcast was kind of patient-based only. But then I just started to realize that communication between patient and doctor is needed on both sides. And so think of this podcast as me and you, the clinician, or you, the patient, are having a beer, right? And we're all just kind of chatting. And then something that someone doesn't understand comes up. And so we start to explain it.

And so this will help doctors and so DCs, PTs, clinicians of all types communicate with their patients. And it'll help patients understand what we're talking about as well. Because I think you can only break down technical stuff so much before you start to muddy the water a little bit. So that is the attempt of this podcast. Also, too, if you have not heard this podcast before, I tend to share a little bit about myself, the host, via personal story. So I will go through that before we go into the content. The guest today is, I'm so honored to have him on. He is an intern that I have for about six months here at Performance Place, Jeremy Dinkins, which who now finally got his license. And he got his license. He graduated, I think, in so December of 2018. And so now he's practicing in New Jersey. And so I wanted to stall for a while to have him on because I wanted to see how it was going when he was starting up. And so he started with an internship. He eventually went and started his own practice, which I don't think he anticipated at first in the beginning. He'll tell that story a little bit. But I thought it'd be useful for everyone to kind of see what it's like to start.

And I do think seasoned clinicians are still going to get information from this podcast in particular, although they've already started, because we do cover other things towards the tail end, such as communication, outreach, networking, as well as just queuing loaded movement. And so there's a lot of fun conversation here because we know each other pretty well. So we text on a regular basis. And yeah, so I'm glad to have him on. So let's get into that personal story first. And then we'll get into the content. Okay, so as you guys probably know, if you follow me on Instagram, that is at performancehb, you're going to know that I love to cook tomahawk steaks. I love a good tomahawk steak. Gosh, they're so exciting. So I like to cook them, honestly. And I've been asked this before, dude, like, dude, you eat too much meat, you eat too much steak. I'm worried about your health, all that kind of jazz. And I'm like, look, honestly, I don't, I only take a couple slices of this thing.

And I haven't been able to eat off the bone in a while because I keep giving the bone away. So Jeremy, the one I'm interviewing today, he came back for his last time prior to actually going to graduation. And so he kind of knows this too. And so he gave me the best gifts that anyone's given me in a long time. He walked in and he came from Whole Foods and he gave me a tomahawk steak that was just ready to cook. So thanks so much for that. And he knows me very well. And I cooked that thing up. It was so money. Oh, gosh. So let's get into that content there. And if you haven't cooked a tomahawk steak yet, by the way, I've gotten some text messages or emails from it. And they're not that expensive.

25 bucks, split them with four or five people. What is that? A four or five dollar meal right there? Dang, you're going to lose your mind. It's a bone in ribeye. Lose your shit. Reverse sear. Do about an hour and a half or so on the grill. Flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. Get it to the point where it feels like kind of a meaty part of your thenar eminence right below your thumb. And then pull it off and throw it in a cast iron skillet and sear. Make sure to salt, pepper the pan as well as garlic with butter. Sear real hard all the contact points. Wait a minute or so. Do the other side. Do the corners. Do the corners. Cut the fat off after that and throw it in the pan. Let the fat sear. We call them fat pustules. Oh, God, they're so good. Let them be on there for like a minute, like 10 minutes. Slow cook them. So try that out. I'll see. Let's get into the content. What's up? Am I in? You're in. Do you hear me? Yeah. You're in. Cool. I thought I would just start recording. Usually the pre the pre podcasting conversations better than actually podcasting. I will. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So what's going on, bro? Yeah, nothing much. I got a cut. So have you had one of these yet? The Yeti mug? I actually just bought one from my mom for Mother's Day. Dude, they're great until like you sculled your lips. Like you can wait like an hour and a half and it's still too hot to drink. So you got to like you have to prep it even more. You have to swirl it.

Can you see the steam coming off too? Yeah, that's impressive actually. Yeah, it's pretty intense. So going strong with the coffees. This coffee's good. I dig it. Have you had did I ever give you the the coffee that I get? No, I was kind of upset about that. Oh, yeah, I'm sure you cried. Yeah, no, it's good. Like we get it for like Ben gets it now for me too. We just get it. Yeah, we get it for like, I think it's like $8 a pound, but it's like source debt. It would sell for like 20. We just buy like so many so many pounds at a time, like 80 pounds at a time where it just knocks the price way down. Yeah, that's awesome. So I thought I guess we should tell everyone who you are. Who are you? Who's this guy? My name is Dr. Jeremy. It's pretty weird to say that. But I used to intern at your office and went to school out in Southern California.

Got my doctorate in chiropractic and came back east to start my own practice. Yeah. So Jeremy Dinkin. Yep. What do you ever do you ever talk to anyone about like, should I be called Dr. Dinkin? Dr. Jeremy? Dr. J? It's still weird for me to introduce myself to patients as doctor. Like I still just say Jeremy. Yeah, I still do the same like 10 years out. It's yeah, still weird. Yeah, there was a I know people though that they like for teenagers, they they tell they want the teenager to call them doctor so and so. Yeah, that's I think it's more of like, listen to me kind of thing. Exactly. That's doctor to you, son. Mm hmm. So so I thought I have you on today that I know you've heard the podcast before.

Um, so everyone listening, there is there's PTs, DCs, um, trainers, um, there's also some patients here and there too. So the, uh, the goal of the podcast today, I think is to, uh, help everybody understand what it's like currently to be a new doc that you're literally like three months into practice in and out of school, right? Right. Okay. What's, uh, what's something that maybe unexpected that you didn't, uh, that you just didn't see coming there? Um, well, setting up the LLC was tough. Really? Yeah, for me, it was just a lot more paperwork and stuff that I thought and a little more expensive than I thought. But, um, it went smoothly after, you know, like after I got things together and a little more organized because I was trying to just like rushing to get it in and, um, I got my license super fast. Like I think faster than anybody. I got it within like three weeks. Why is that with just New Jersey's just quick or? No, I, I drove there and gave them my paperwork myself. Oh really?

Wait, so the New Jersey board? Yeah. I just, I just, I didn't want to mail. That's funny. So yeah, I got it done fast. And so I was like, okay, let's, let's do this right now. And so the LLC process went underway and then, um, that took a couple of weeks and then I, uh, it's funny how I actually got into the place I'm in now. I was going to work as an associate up in North Jersey with Dr. Rabinowitz and, um, long story short, we ended up thinking that it was too far of a commute longterm. So I was like, okay, now what? So I went on a couple of interviews. Um, sports medicine. Cairo was my Google search, zero sports medicine that I saw. So, um, whatever that even means, but it was all just pretty much high volume, quick visits. Um, you know, the prototype model.

Uh, and so I, I didn't want to work there cause I knew that I would eventually hate being there and I didn't want to put myself in that position. And especially working with you for the past year, um, shadowing with Dr. Murray and working at his clinic and just know, I kind of knew what I wanted. And so all of the places that I interviewed at, I was trying to like, Oh man, this is not, this is not for me. So I randomly reached out to one of my old trainers from high school and into college. He's a performance guy. And he's like, Hey, come check out my gym. And so I just went on a Friday just to say hello, pretty much catch up on old times, check out his new spot. Cause he moved places from when I was there. And, um, he was like, Hey, I have this extra room in here. If you want to rent it out, I was like, absolutely. I didn't even blink. I was like, yeah, let's do it. So, um, he's been amazing to me, like very accommodating, uh, very helpful with the marketing. It's pretty much free marketing because he does. He has like a ton of younger athletes coming through every day.

Um, he's very well known in the area and he's been powerlifting for 30 years. So picking his brain is amazing and beneficial as well. So it's been just, I got really lucky. Nice. Didn't, so when you text, did you text the guy and say, say, Hey, bro. Hey, bro. How did you, how'd you do it in Jersey? I thought you told me the intro. I said, how you don't. How you spell that? Don't you do that? D-O-N-I-I hyphen? I just do the D-O-N with the hyphen after. D-O-N? Yeah. With the hyphen after or the apostrophe after. There's no I in it? No. I don't. I don't. Well, cool. Yeah. Uh, yeah. I know that your, your, your adventure going back and forth was kind of interesting. Uh, yeah. You, uh, well, you finished up your internship over, over there and what you drove like an hour and a half or two hours to get to your internship.

Yeah. Each way. It was in, um, Connecticut because for those of you listening, whoever want to do preceptorship in New Jersey, you can't. So you have to find the neighboring state, which was Connecticut, New York, PA, they all don't do it. So I had to commute two hours each way to be in Jersey for my 10th term, but it was worth it. I, I glad, I'm glad I did it because I got to meet Dr. Rabinowitz and work in his office and, um, he's been a great mentor as well. So. Yeah. So what kind of, what kind of stuff has he taught you? Cause, uh, I know that, uh, he's got a good, he's got a good skillset, uh, of things. So what, what, what have you learned the most over there?

Um, well, the most, um, well, first of all, I love the way he practices. Um, he's very movement oriented as well. Um, he's really smart too. Very smart with his like movement assessments and all that. Um, he taught me a lot clinically, but I think the most important thing I took away was like personal communication with patients. Um, the interview, like when they come in, cause he does discovery visit as well. Um, yeah, I was wondering how you came up with that idea. That process is like, he's got it down. He's got it down. It's his, it's his coaching. He, um, he's got it down. And so I think learning the, the backend side of the business and like realizing how much more goes into just opening up a practice, like students probably think, and I, even I thought like, Oh yeah, just open up and things will happen. Like people will come in and communication is going to be great. It's not a big deal, but actually so much effort and work goes into that communication. It's beyond explaining. So it's a lot of practice and I'm still not good at it.

Yeah. I think when, when my, one of my, um, post preceptorship, like he, he kind of gave me the guidance of just like, just do good work. People will come. Yeah, exactly. And it's in, it's not, it's not the case. Yeah, exactly. You're happy, go lucky. You're right out of school. You're like, let's go save the world. Everyone's going to come to me because that's just how it works, but that's actually the opposite. And so I've had already some really lonely days in the office by myself, but I'm always like, I'm keeping myself busy somehow, either working on that communication aspect or learning stuff clinically, even though against his advice, he said to put down the clinical books and start reading more about business. Probably. There's probably a spurt in there where you should just like fully dive into business stuff. Yeah. If I, if I had to guess, I'd say 10th term, all of 10th term should be that. Agreed. Agreed. And you, and you started me on that too. Like you had assignments for me and stuff that put me in uncomfortable situations that helped me become better as a clinician though. Like it had nothing to do with diagnosing or treating or anything like that. It was all back end stuff that all matters. Yeah, that was fun. We did the, we did, we did the ring ring game. That was, I think it was a fun day. Yeah. Yeah. I almost punched some guy in the head for that. Yeah. Um, so some of the, uh, some listeners might be wondering what are these communication things you're talking about? Um, you know, specifically that would, they'd be helpful to kind of learn now. Well, it's just like diving deeper into why they're truly there. Like you can ask the basic questions and the LOPP QRST stuff, but like really getting to know their goals and why they truly are coming to you. Like maybe someone says, I've got a little back pain and I just want to start like golfing again. Right. And you're like, okay. Uh, you, can you go like, what's, why do you need to golf? Oh, well, all my buddies go every Saturday. And recently I haven't been able to golf. Right. And so, Oh, it goes deeper than just having the back pain. Like he's missing out on time with his buddies that he usually gets to go to. So there's like an emotional part of it and just diving into questions like that and keep, keep digging at important questions of why they truly reached out to you because most people reach out to us, right? Like we're not, we put content out there and marketing stuff, but like they're interested. So they reach out to us and we got to figure out why they're coming specifically to us. Yeah. I think there was, um, just something recently that, that we had a conversation the other day with, uh, I got a new editor that I'm going to use.

And so, um, you've read my writing. It's just, it's, it's kind of, it's personal, but there's grammar issues all over the place and a lot lapsed ideas all over the place. And so I, when she asked me like what I want out of it and she's like, are you writing this as, are you the author? And I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm the author. And she's like, no, but are you actually like, do you want it to be from you? The author? Because there's, um, a difference between when someone reaches out to like, say, Livestrong, because Livestrong is written by kind of like nobody. And we all kind of know it's nobody on the other end. Right. But if it's coming from like you, like, uh, Dr. Jeremy, then you got to demonstrate who you are. Uh, and also too, there's a higher level of expertise required there. So they might resonate with something that you wrote or put out. It's more personal. Right. It's way more personal. Yeah. Um, what's the, uh, what's, what's one of the most surprising, maybe like actual reasons why someone's coming to see you?

Surprising? Yeah. Where you ask, you're like, Oh, really? Oh, you're coming to see me for like whether, whether it be like their actual reason or like something you're like, Oh, you saw me deadlifting and you thought my face look, my hair was always tight, tight, tight. I've actually just lifting in, um, some niche gyms, uh, like subculture gyms that are just like power lifters. That's generated a couple of patients just cause they're like, Oh, who's this tiny guy lifting heavier weights and I'm expecting or like, um, people, another random one is people coming out random, but I have an internal medicine guy who I was communicating with just for like referral stuff. And he wanted me to train him personally.

And I was like, all right, it's not random, but it's like, I figured he would come in for like the rehab stuff, but he actually wanted like, he wants to build muscle and lose fat. And that's one of my favorite things to teach people. So I was like, this is perfect. My first patient or my first client with like an actual one-on-one training. Um, I go to his house and show him what to do for an hour. And then we do a little bit of nutrition as well. Yeah. That's good. Long-term care right there. Yeah. But yeah, um, actually I know that we talked to you the day about this. Uh, how did you get that guy to come in to see you?

The one I was just talking about the internal med, right? I reached out to him cause, uh, I wanted to get to know a couple docs around my area, which I think is huge. And, um, I got advice from a couple of people just going, you know, to docs that are well-known and have a good reputation. I went into a couple offices, introduced myself, told them who I was, that I'm brand new in the area, but I'm from here. Um, and I'm starting my practice and, uh, we could work both ways. I could send you people, you could send me people. And, um, that's, that's how I met him. And he's, of course he, he's commented on like my physique and it was like, Did you walk in with your shirt on or tank top or?

Yeah, no, I walked in with like a collar, regular board clothes. Did you have tight pants on? You turn around the way out? Yeah, I was twerking on the way out. Peacock him. So he asked me if I could personally train him because he's, he's iffy about chiropractic. And I was like, Oh, we can, you know, always give it a shot. It's not, it's not your average chiropractic visit, but I understand. And so he, he was like, Oh, maybe one day, but I want to, I want the training. Yeah. Hey, I don't know if you've ever asked him, um, do you, can you ask him what it means? Like when you're iffy about chiropractic, what is it? What exactly are you iffy about?

Oh yeah. I asked him. So he, he, uh, he says he doesn't want to get addicted to the endorphin release. I didn't want to just, I just left it at that. Did you take the, you take, you stopped having lift then? No, no. Cause he wants to be addicted to that, I guess. Right. And you choose your addiction. I know I, I found that like a, quite a few people that are like, yeah, I don't know a chiropractor. And I'm like, what, what is it? What's the thing you're iffy about? They're like, yeah, I don't think that they think that chiropractic means the adjustment. And, uh, I think it's an important communication thing there.

Yeah. Um, just quick story with, uh, with, with Jeremy is that, so when he was interned in my place, I usually pick things now that I know the person doesn't want to do, but they're, and I know they need to get better at. Yeah. Oh God. And so talk about what the, the go around and talk to you. Oh, Oh, I can talk about that too. So, you know, so the first thing was that, um, like I, I, I, I think that each person that comes in, like they, I think they secretly want to have their own business. They're just scared. And so I'll coach them into that a little bit. So you, I sent you out to, uh, I said, here's some letters and go find some, uh, MDs in the area. And I want you to go talk to the MD and, uh, you did that one and you came back so pissed that day.

That was the guy I was talking about. Yeah. And then what I think what I, what I tell you when you got back, you're like, Oh, I'm not going back there again. I said, yeah, you're already going next week. Exactly. And then I had to face that fear. Yeah. He wasn't there the second time though. It was, it was just, yeah, he was really ruthless. Like he was just, I forgot what happened, but I remember being furious, like total disrespect. Didn't want anything to do with, I should, I didn't even say chiropractic, I don't think. I think he saw my shirt. Yeah. It's like, Nope, I don't want it. Yeah. Well, yeah, that, that other one then I guess we still have that video somewhere.

And so, uh, we were trying to do, cause I think what your, your point, your thing at that time, which you could have improved on was just public speaking and just getting your point across. Yeah. Uh, so we did videos and what'd we do a video on how to, how to make your back feel better in the car. And so we have all these outtakes. So, so bad. Oh, it was great. We should post, we should post that one. There's a, Yeah, why not? Okay. So we'll put a link in the show notes for that one. That's a good one. There's a couple of censored words in that one. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. There was, to be fair though, like there was a guy that I used to rent a room to and he was a nutritionist. And so he, he, uh, he was a great speaker. Like he'd go out to bars and like start conversation with random people. It was not a big deal.

And so, but when you put a camera in front of him, like he couldn't, he literally couldn't get his name out for like, it was like 10 minutes and finally like, dude, I'm, I'm going to walk away. I'm going to go to the camera roll and you just let me know when you're done. Cause this is taking way too much time. Yeah. Well, that's how I felt. I was like, this is, I took public speaking like three times in college. I think going to school for that first two and a half years where you're just in a ditch and like a science ditch and you have zero communication with anyone except for your roommate and your classmates. I think I seriously lost like communication skill. All I did was study and go back to my house, study more, go back to school, study. There was barely any communication.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I was just good. I was only good at bothering the people who were sitting just directly in front of me. I'd breathe on their shoulder on purpose. Oh God. Um, how's, uh, probably another thing too, in the first year that students seem to be care about is the confidence of missing red flags. Oh, how do you feel about that right now? Um, I got way better in the beginning. I, I was same thing. Like I had, I had my worries, had my doubts. Um, but if you do due diligence and you take it, you take your time and the exam, don't rush it. Like they actually force you to rush it in school clinic, which is super annoying.

Um, so now I have all the time in the world. Um, I take my time. I do, you know, all of the necessary steps to make sure that the person's safe to get, go through with treatment. Also the intake form is huge. Um, I didn't realize how big that was. And I have to address a lot of things on there. Confident with that sheet. I finally went with my final copy cause it took me like a month. Um, went with my final copy. And then once people fill that out and I, I check all the boxes, we're good to go, but it's still nerve wracking, you know, like cervical adjustments. You just, they still give you that like deep, deep, like, I don't know about this one. They're like, you know, yeah, I still don't really adjust cervicals personally. I know. I know. I was taught, I was actually talking to, um, the chiropractor, the muscle doc. Right. And he said, I haven't adjusted a neck in years. Yeah. I think it's good. Yeah. And then you said that people start calling you a PT when you don't. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I don't think there was, I mean, I remember the last person that, that I just had a neck on, it was kind of like, it was like the whole experience, like upset me. And I had time cause it was through lunch, but it was like, they came in telling me that they needed an adjustment. And I'm like, first off my, my first intuition, when someone tells you they need something, I'm like, well, let's, let's just see what you need. Give me a second here. Right. And so went through the exam and everything. I'm like, well, I don't think you need that. You need something else. Let's try this.

There's good success, blah, blah, blah. Right. And so I explained the whole thing and he just, the whole time, just tooth and nail, wanted, wanted the adjustment. And I said, dude, you don't need it. This was 30 minutes going on, arguing back and forth. And finally I said, I'm like, I told you on the phone when you, when you came in, like I, what I might not adjust you. I want you to let you know that. And so I finally, finally did. And so it went well, but then I decided, I'm like, I can't have this guy back. Like, this is not, this is not what this practice is about, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's another reason. Good point is why I started my own practice is that I saw the variety of like people in the clinics that I was interviewing at or shadowing, whatever. And I was like, I really want that specific community who I speak with and I can relate to and want to get better. You know, like they're invested in it. They are paying you pretty high price to get better. And we're going to take all the necessary steps to get there. But like, it matters what kind of person you attract. Yeah. So I know that when we, when you were over here, you were working on identification of your, of your target demographic or your target, your ideal patient. Um, when, what is that now? And did it change and what was it prior? Yeah, it did actually. And, and recently I had to revisit that because you initially made me do that. And I was like, damn, I really can't narrow this down. Um, anybody. Yeah. It was so hard. Remember I was like, yeah, ages like two to 75. Um, as long as you're an athlete now, as long as I can, if they have to pay to go on a plane, I want them. But, uh, I narrowed it down to two, which was the best I could do. And one of them is like a 29 year old elite athlete male, um, wants to push the envelope and wants to get every little detail, like on point, um, wants to improve their strength training and wants to improve their sport, whatever it is. Um, one just wants to take it to the next level and every detail matters. So like, like those sessions are longer and that's kind of how I want it to be in the future is like, I like longer sessions where I take my time. I work on everything they need movement based, soft tissue wise, neurologically, all that stuff. And I want to see results. So, and see it translate to their sport or weightlifting, whatever it is. The second one is like the 44 year old female, uh, mother of a couple or one, whatever, um, who has still had aches and pains since having kids. I just can't really figure it out. That's a good one. Yeah.

And that's, that's, that's been a money, like a money one because not, not literally, but that's been like, uh, I think I speak to them better than the first one I mentioned because, um, one of my mom's friends, actually, I mentioned this on the other podcast. She was my first patient. She just, my mom knew that I was home again, mentioned to her that her son was a chiropractor. This lady was in like 10 out of 10 pain for years and didn't even have an office yet. So I just, I had a, I had a table in my, in my living room and I told her to come on by. And so she came down, um, pure instability case and radiculopathy, uh, chronic was in tears by the end of the visit because we were, I had her hip hinging and moving by the end of the, end of the visit. Oh, nice. What, what, what did that, what did that all entail? I'm just curious what she ended up being. Um, what do you mean?

What'd you do? What'd you do with her? Oh, so, well, she's a mother of three. Um, wanted to get, wanted to get back into lifting again cause she was lifting, but she was like pushing through a lot of pain and it was for years. So I think she said like two, three years, um, sitting in the car was brutal lifting up her kids. All that's, it was classic flexion, uh, intolerance. Oh yeah. Fix your own back course, huh? Yeah. That was the money. Uh, so, oh, by the way, I'm really happy you made me go to that. Yeah. That was a good one. You forced me to sign up the night before, but anyway, um, we did some hip hinging bracing stuff. Um, her hip hinge in the beginning was not optimal, hate that word, but it wasn't ideal and got her to engage her glutes, um, engage the external rotators race. Even I think the first thing we did was simple breathing and she was like, wow, I didn't even realize this existed. Like, and I can use this in my training. And I was like, I use it every day. Every time I train, I, I start with breathing and I breathe in between sets now and I do it all the time. Um, so she, that was like a whole new thing for her. Second visit, she came back, loaded her and cause I have a kettlebell in my house, um, gave her some loading stuff, pain free. She was like in shock. And so that, that became my best testimonial because she's more than happy to deliver awesome reviews now. Um, and so that, that was when I, when I treated her, I was like, okay, this, this group might be the group by target, but I still love the elite athlete, you know, the guy who's pushing for it all. Yeah. Well, I guess, um, I know that they're, I think they, they say it's a no, no, and I have two targets, but I, I think, uh, I think of it kind of like your, your, um, moneymaker, like your main job in your side hustle. Cause you have a real good passion for the side hustle and that's, that's your athlete one. Yeah. I, I, I, uh, just recently I'm attempting to revamp a little bit of, um, my niching cause I was, I, I know, I know generally what I like, but I didn't realize it until the other day when, um, or a couple months ago when I, when someone was emailing, I'm like, dude, why can't this just be like my IT band, my quote unquote IT band is, won't just go away. I'm like, dude, that is the biggest money, like easy, like met like 35, 40 year old, like lady, mother to runner wants to lose weight and has this crown like IT band thing that just keeps going and going and going. Cause they all got friends and said, Oh my God, so easy. And so I never yesterday actually. So easy. Um, and so the, I, I changed it down. And so my main page now says, uh, like IT band hip flexor and pure former syndrome expert or basically cause cause I just, I just want, yeah, I want to, I want them to be versions of, of disc cause they're just so simple. Um, I'm down with this. So with, with, with listeners, uh, just, I know that people have considered the niching down before, but they're like, I don't want to miss out on people. Have you found that to be a problem where you're missing people as, as possible patients if you're saying, well, I work on these people? Well, yeah, of course, but especially since I don't take insurance, but that's the point. That's my goal. Like I don't want a huge variety anymore. I thought I did.

And they tell you in school, like get as many people as you want, take as many forms of payment as you want. They encourage it. But actually I think in the long run, like I always knew I wanted to do cash and, um, I think to stay cash based, you got to start now, um, which narrows the crew a ton already. Um, and then getting that specific group of people, I think is actually what I strive for. I don't, I don't think like I'm part-time in a clinic right now, a couple of days a week and I see that whole variety and it's fun. It's good practice, but for my name on the product and like what I want to do, like I, I know my crew is a little different, a little bit more narrowed down. Yeah. You, you know, you bring up something there on the side is that, so you still have a side job. Yes. Yep. Okay. Um, and I know that, uh, students when they get out, it's, it's kind of like, well, I'm a doc. I do doc things and like now I got to practice, but I don't have the money for it. This is freaky. I think we'll be an associate. Um, I don't know if you know, I, I waited tables for the first six months out of school for on a Saturday. I think you told me that. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I think we, I think I would walk with like 120, $130 in tips. I wouldn't even barely even pick up my paycheck. It wasn't worth the time, you know? And, and, um, when I first started getting people, I got one person consistently on a Saturday and I think at the time I was charging like, maybe I got two people cause it was, I think I was charging 60, $85 or something like that. And so it ended up matching for two hours of two hours or less than two hours of work. So it was about probably about an hour and a half work there, there and back versus like six hours of the restaurant. I decided once that was a consistent thing, then I quit. Right. But your, your hard work is highly underestimated. So that doesn't surprise me at all to have extra jobs. Yeah. Like I was just telling someone the other day, I was like, I was looking through your YouTube page and it's like astronomical how many videos you have. I know. Like it's a tough, it's like tough for me to make like three. And I'm like, Holy hell, this guy's, and I got the, I got the blessing to work with you three. So. Well, glad to work with you. I think you was, you'll get quicker though. Cause now you're, you're now you can practice. You'll do single runs. They're not going to be hard anymore.

Yeah, that's true. And I think that even if I thought I knew what I was talking about before, now it's like, now I feel more comfortable. Yeah. They're going to, they're going to change too, by the way, like the one that I have for, for a hip that's the most, the highest viewed one. I don't even like what I'm saying on it anymore. Like I wish I could change it and interchange it with a different video, but you can't. Yeah. Cause then you lose the views, right? Right. And yeah. So it's not worth, but I'll just leave it. And when people come in, they're like, Hey, I thought you'd want to do this with me. I'll say, no. Well, yeah. Well, come on in and then we'll do, we'll do something similar. Exactly. But you can just make whatever just as long as you're not going to, you know, hurt the person. Agreed. But yeah, no. So back to the side hustle, it was either, what's the, reading this book, they say it's either burn the bridges or burn the, burn the boats and you go all in on your business and you pretty much pressure yourself into making it happen or you do the side hustle like half and half.

Which for me was safer just cause I don't know. I, I didn't have much money to start with. So I was like, I just need this cause I'm paying two rents. So I needed to be safe with the rents and everything else that I made in, I was like, you know, I'll just sacrifice a couple of days a week, work in a clinic, get good experience there because I get to see the out of network, how that works. And um, I work with PTs, which is awesome. They're really cool, hilarious people. Um, and we have good relationship with them and so it's worth it for me just in the beginning. Yeah. I don't, I don't think it's really bad for, I think most people should do it. I understand the burn, burn the boats thing, but you gotta, you gotta feel like, I think you gotta get a couple of your ducks in a row to make sure you're not going to fail. Yeah. Well, yeah, you definitely have to be from the area, which I was, but still like if you're, if you're burning the boats, like that's a lot of extra pressure on top of whatever life, you know, like if you're married and you have kids or whatever it is, like that's a lot of pressure. Is Brooke looking at you right now? I'm getting pressure from that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's tough. I'm actually, I'm, I'm, I'm glad you did your own, but I, I'm surprised that you did it that quick cause, cause you were with Justin. Yeah. But well, yeah, I mean the original plan was to be with him and, and learn more and keep going with him, but it just was too far. And, uh, he, I think he wanted a two year, three year commitment. So I knew that I wanted to start my own like since day one, but being, being in North Jersey and doing that commute for that long, I don't think it would have worked out. So I mean, but now he's pretty much like my business coach. So yeah, um, we're still, we still talk all the time. He's been a huge help. Um, I know he posted this the other day, like stop giving so much credit to other people.

I do owe credit to a lot of people for why I started like you and him and, and Ben, I bothered Ben all the time. Um, you guys have been huge mentors and like, it really makes a difference because that little confidence, like to know, like, okay, I know what I'm doing. Like it goes a long way. Yeah. Well, I'm glad I'm, I told you the other day, it's my responsibility. I feel like to only get you to succeed through one year after that year on your own. One year contract. Yeah. One, one year contract. Free, free, free one year contract. If it's not after one year, then I should just retire anyway. Probably. By the way, why does your Facebook have an iceberg on it? Oh, I don't know. Okay. Just, just wondering the background. Yeah. Oh, that was from, uh, that was when I was really into house music. And I think one of the, one of the songs that came out, that was like the picture for the song. And so I just, I don't know. It was a cool picture. Yeah. Okay. And one of the things I've been meaning to ask you is tell me about Queens pass. Oh man. The legendary Queens pass. The notorious street in Colts neck history. Well, I grew up in Newport beach right down the street from you. And when I moved to New Jersey, well, we used to move all the time, like every year when I was in a new house and Newport beach was technically the first house we lived in. That was like more than one year. Cause, um, it was like Huntington, San Diego, San Pedro, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And in Newport, we stayed there for like three years, three or four years. And so that was like our home base finally. And then I moved to Jersey and my mom ended up coming out and getting the house in Queens pass my sophomore year of high school. And she's never been an East coast girl. So like, that was, that was like amazing. Have her here. Um, everyone was here now. And since that sophomore year of high school, which was like the peak of life, right? Like starting, starting. When you're number, when you're number 17. Yeah, no, I was number four, but, um, that's because, is that because you're a quarterback or because nothing fit in larger numbers?

So it was number four, extra, extra small. Uh, so, um, she came sophomore year of high school and then we had it till just recently. And the amount of like, the amount of memories in that house is like, it was, we had it for, I was, um, 16. So 12 years, 12 years. That, that, that's just like way overseas over like any type of house we ever had. That's like the longest by far. So we had so many good times in there, high school football, just alone. Um, all my friends staying up. It was like the main house for all of our buddies. So we've had tons of hangouts there. That's like a meeting point. Cause it was on the border of like each major town. Um, it was just an awesome place.

Did you call the, the get together kickbacks? Oh, we had, we had a, no, we had a FIFA tournaments in the basement. I think I mentioned this in the post. Yeah. And for relationships and friendships were broken in that basement from that game. Cause you just dominate people on FIFA. Yeah. And it was personal. Yeah. I'm, yeah, I'm sure the, uh, yeah, actually, uh, when I was, when I was reading this, uh, uh, it kind of reminded me of like, so I went to a wedding recently where the, I don't know why it seems like bridesmaids or, uh, best women. What are they? Uh, first woman. Yeah. What are they? Uh, wait, hold on. Uh, I just, I just went blank. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. It's not made of honor, made of honor. There we go. Yeah. The made of honors typically have these, uh, not all of them, but some of them have these stories where they like this one in particular was like, so yeah, when we went to Mexico and like, we're on the steps of like the Capitol building, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Okay. Now we're going to, so they're like, they're like all these inside jokes where it's like, dude, no one, no one gets this at all. And so, so I was reading this and I'm like, pull, pull, start blenders at 2am losing friends. Okay. All right. There's, there's internal things in here. I think I just need to hear one of them in detail.

Oh, you want to hear the pull start blender? Let's hear the pull start blender. Oh, this is a good one. So did you meet my dad? Uh, yeah, yeah. I met him. Yeah. Yeah. He was a graduation, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He's like a, he needs a movie, a book, a show, whatever it is. He needs it, but he's a character and, uh, junior year we, our football team was really good. So he came, he came to a party. Like we had a party after, um, after another win and, um, he brought a gas powered blender where you like pull start it from Mexico and at 2am he pulls, he pulls this thing out. He's pulling it. It's 2am. The neighbors are furious cause they told us the next day. Um, yeah, well good. I'm glad I know one now. Um, it has, it has its own hashtag Colts neck too. Exactly. So, uh, and it, since I've been interviewing people and I want to give people the, also the opportunity that would you like to take the microphone for a couple minutes here? Sure. What do you want to talk about? Um, let's talk about how you showed me how to, um, how to bridge the gap between exercise and therapy. Ooh, wait, what the plan was? Well, just, I mean, I didn't know, like I didn't, I remember I kept asking you like, how did you just go from like, how did you just take that patient who showed up with a full on cervical radiculopathy through exercise? I had no idea that that was a thing.

Hmm. You know, I've, I've actually struggled with actually, uh, having you, having you in like, uh, kind of not knowing exactly how to explain what the hell I'm doing to somebody else. Cause I'm explaining it in patient code and then like you want to know what I'm looking for and I, and I, and I don't know how to get it across really. And so I'm actually just actually yesterday I started writing like a rough flow chart. And so I'll, I'll share that with everybody if they want it. But, um, I've kind of been challenged to do it cause I'm right. I'm doing that workshop coming up here soon. Right. And I guess, I guess through that it's, uh, I always tended to take, I don't know if you noticed that in the flow with, with, with people, I'll, I'll tend to see if there's an intersection point somewhere in the exam where it looks like they can respond to some stability training of some type. And so maybe not with the radiculopathy cause I want to address nerve first, but let's just say with like a shoulder case and rather than jumping straight through like your, your T-spine mobs and like your, like your tissue work on the pec minor and blah, blah, blah.

Uh, I'll, I'll test their shoulder a little bit and have them raised, let's just say I'll have them raise their arm and they're like, yeah, that hurts. And so I'll take sometimes the other hand and I'll say, push, push me across the room and they're, they're seated. And so they'll, they'll push me and then with the other arm and then they'll raise up with the one arm with no pain. And they're like, why does that work? And I said, well, all you did was stiffen your belly and my hand was a tool for you to stiffen the belly. And so I'll, with whatever the person has, I'll see if there's some type of inception point there where I can challenge what their belief is. And if I think that this, there's a possibility this is productive for them, I'll, I'll try it out in the weight room a little bit with a simple or a loaded resistance training exercise, whatever I decide to use. Um, and, and I have them test again after the fact. And if it sticks, then I know that that's something that they'll use for homework. Um, and I, and I would tend to come back on tissue work in passive care in a couple of visits if they need it. But, but so I guess teaching you how to do it, I don't know. I don't know. I think at some point, didn't you just kind of just like, you shadowed enough where you just realized, I didn't, I asked you after I said, you know, before you, or as we're going on, I didn't, I say, okay, uh, formulate a thought of what's going to happen. And, and then we'll talk about it at the end, right? Exactly. Like you started making me program for the people I was comfortable with that knew me and saw that I was shadowing. And then eventually people would overlap and you're like, here, take this guy. Oh yeah. That was good. That was amazing. But I was like, Oh, here we go. So I was, that's literally how I learned the cue was by you throwing me to the wolves and like kind of picking up on yours and then figuring out what worked for me. And, um, and then I started like really falling in love with it. And then I started looking up stuff on my own and diving deeper into it. And I was like, Oh, this is it. This is, I finally found what I wanted to do. Good. Yeah. The, um, I think, I don't know if I explained it to you this way, but if I, if I see that they're in the testing, that their, their frontal plane is suspicious or their rotational intolerant or flexion intolerant, then I'll build the program based upon that. Right. And that's how you do it. I'm guessing now. Yeah. Well, I do kind of similar to what you do now. Like I just do a little bit more soft tissue just cause I like it, but, um, I'll do a little bit of passive in the beginning. Um, just to, you know, you, just like you told me, you touch the area just so they're happy. Yeah. They gotta be happy. Yeah. But I'll do a lot of muscle work and then we'll go out, which is being in the gym is so awesome cause I get access to all that equipment. I can do whatever I want. And, um, so we walk out to the gym. Um, I'll do, I'll do like a mini circuit, like how I used to do like three, four exercises. Exactly. Maybe some, some more body weight stuff, um, depending on the case. And then I'll give them homework. Um, and then I'll write up a Google doc and I'll have, well, hopefully after today cause I'm going to film in a little bit. Um, I'll have videos with myself on it now, not like a random YouTube link. Um, and, and, and just to, just, I think to, to clean stuff up a little bit is that, so I know the reason why I program in like, like bursts of three or four, and it's really dependent upon unilateral bilateral movement for the person or not is that, so I'll say like, we're going to goblet squat and do a SLDL or say frozen skater, what we've been using, using there and a pushup link. And then, so we'll do about like, you know, five to 10 reps of that, or maybe a minute's worth. And I'll say, okay, stop doing that. Come over, let's do this one. And so, and they're like, well, but maybe I need to improve on. I'm like, don't worry about it. We'll, we'll come back to it. And so I try to give them a brain break. And so three, four rounds of that, they'll just start learning the movement via just doing, um, which is awesome. Yeah. Rather than just hammering them for like one exercise. Um, unless there's one we really, really need. Right. Well, there was, there was, uh, Justin, when he let me take care of some of his patients, um, up North, he was like, dude, you're giving way too many exercises. So he's like, you know, one or two, maybe three, but like calm down pretty much.

And I was like, Oh yeah, you're right. I was like, I was over cuing. I was giving too many exercises because I was still, you know, like I just left California. So I was still like learning in the learning phase in the, in the, uh, what's it called? The, um, honeymoon phase rehab. Yeah. I, I, I think it's so, I think it's okay to do, but I do think that, I mean, have you been a patient in a while where people are, or a student of anything where they're giving you too much on one day and you're like, I don't want to do this. Like you just shut down. Oh yeah. Dr. Carlos. He would do that. I love Dr. Carlos. He's the best. Embryology for four hours. Day one. I was like, Oh yeah, this is too much, my friend. But I was just thinking also too, do you ever get like a patient who's in the medical field who like wants to speak doctor? Yeah. Yeah. Do you, you, you got one or you got that one guy? That is top five. Like I have to woosaw in the corner. Woosaw? He's like, well, is this my middle scalene that is like super tight? I'm like, Oh no. Yeah. Yeah. I do. I do have one guy that he hasn't been back in a while, but he, uh, I had to have an intervention with him actually. I, I, like, I know what's going on with him. And when he comes though, we have good conversation. He wants to learn generally. He wants to learn biomechanics and we just don't do anything. Like at half hour passing, we're talking and, and so I show him like maybe one thing and, and he, he's like, Oh good, good. And he'll come back like three weeks, right? Kind of thing. And then he comes back. He's like, I just can't get a hold of it. And I read this article on this and this and that. And what do you think? And I'm like, okay. And finally we did this three, three times. So I said, dude, I'll be, I'm going to be honest with you. Let's not talk about it. Let's just do it. Okay. We're not doing anything.

What'd he say? And so finally he came, like he came that last time and, uh, we did do stuff. Um, but I think because he's, he's medical, he's, he's assuming he knows more about it. Like he's out, he's out of this field. Uh, he's assuming he knows more about it than he does. And so I think he's given him a lot, himself a lot of credit to do it on his own. That's exactly, that's, you hit the nail on the head with that. That's, I'm not going to say the field that she was in, but she was like, she just really wanted to like talk medical. And I was like, I, I'm still a rookie. So I'm like, just kind of ignoring it. And I would like, kind of like play along, but I was like, let's just not talk like this for like 10 minutes. Like I promise you I'm working on it. So yeah. Yeah. I know. I I've started, I think, learn with people that they're, I just like, I'm trying to read through what they're saying. It's like, why, why are you asking this? And, uh, I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. So you're concerned that this exercise is going to affect your penile gland. Okay. Uh, I hear what you're saying and I'm taking that into consideration when we're doing this. Okay. And so they're like, at least they calm down because it's not like, they won't stop unless you, unless you, they feel heard or something. Exactly. But we can't do anything. I tell them I'm collecting data. I'm like, dude, I literally know nothing about your condition until you let me test what I need to test. And these tests happen to be exercises. Yeah, exactly. That's so funny. One of the PTs I work with too, he always talks about the biopsychosocial model. He's like, he's like 45. So he's been practicing for like 20 years. He's like 95 to a hundred percent of these cases are all up here. Right. That's why they're asking for help. Yeah. He's so funny. He, he makes me laugh all day long, but he was, when he said that I was cracking up because we had a patient who was just, she wouldn't let it, she wouldn't leave him alone and she didn't want to leave. She kept talking. She was one of those. And, um, we were cracking up because he was like, this is just, this is just one of those cases.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't like, I know that there's, there's that camp. And I mean, I personally, right. I recognize that there's a lot of, there's, there is mental aspects of things, but I don't, I mean, I think, I think people are just, I think the mental part of a lot of them is just that they just want to feel better and they just don't know what to do, you know? Yeah. So they want to talk about it. They're nervous. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, and I think that's a huge part of treatment. You got to talk. Yeah. Got to talk. Have you come up with a couple of default stories that you tell when you're doing tissue work? Oh, kind of. Yeah. Actually, that's hilarious. I, uh, well, let me think of one. Um, I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but yeah, there are a couple of repeat stories. Yeah.

I'll usually use some of the ones where they're the intros for these podcasts that the personal stories, I'll, I'll just pull those out of the bag. Those are good. Yeah. I gotta, I gotta start, uh, introducing some more personal stories like that. Yeah. I try to relate whatever they're like injury is. I try to relate somehow, some way. Like I try to say, oh yeah, back in high school, I hurt my shoulder too. And I know how, like, you know, something like that. Yeah. I said, that's probably a good point too. Cause actually, so I did have someone shadow through, shadow me through here and I left him with a patient for about five minutes or so. And when I came back, uh, the patient had, uh, they, they were kind of, oh, I asked the patient, I'm like, how did, how did they do with you on that thing? And they said they were great, but I think they failed to realize that I'm here for me or something of that nature.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so they were, they were just nervous and they were talking about themselves. And I know I realized I talk, I talk about myself with patients, but just as you said, in an effort to convey a message. Yeah. To relate. Yeah. Not like, Hey, uh, this is all about me, me, me, me, me, me. Like, no, you say like, oh, I can empathize because I've been through this as well. Yeah. You live by a train. Yeah. Well, as we start to clean up on stuff here, uh, what do you want to talk about? What do you want to address? Is there anything that we think we, we missed that people would like to know about that they need to know within the first six months of practice?

Um, well, I, I said this on the other podcast as well. Um, and Ben, Ben like almost got mad at me. Like that's how serious he was when he told me about this. He's like, you need to network like more than you think you need to network. Like the second you have free time, go out, meet people, make new friends, um, meet new doctors. It's so big because, and I took his advice and same with Justin. He said the same thing. Um, he's like, he like forces me to network and I have to write down like my leads now. Um, so that is huge. And, and I had last Wednesday was my first day that I was like fully booked because I finally started taking it serious, not just like showing up to the gym and like, Oh yeah, I'm a new chiropractor. Like I was going places left and right every minute I had, I was driving all around Monmouth County. Um, and that makes a huge difference. Like in a week I was booked, you know, and some people didn't show up, but still I had like 10, 11 people on the books. Yeah. And in a day that's huge. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big, I know that like I, I, you probably see that I, when, when you were here, I didn't do as much networking as I did. Not like, not like actively like you are. Right. But I think up until about five, six years in, like on my free day, I would do, I do a swim in the morning with people. I'd bike with people. I would, I would go to a CrossFit gym and then I would go run with a running group.

And at some point I'm like, dude, I hate, I hate this. Like, like I just want to go home and not do any of this. I know, I know. And especially the CrossFit community, like, you know how much I don't want to do those workouts, but like just showing face brought in like a couple of people, you know? Right. And I hate those type of workouts. Like it's just not my style. Um, and I was forced into it when I was like, you know what, I'm just going to show up and see what happens. I ended up meeting the owner, you know, inviting him for a free session and good things happen out of that. So I think networking is seriously underrated because you can talk about it all you want, but until you do it, it's like, you actually have, you have to like do it. And people can say, oh yeah, just go network. But like when you're face to face with someone and you're talking and you're making a new relationship and you shake that person's hand and you look them in the eye and you know, you make that connection, nothing better. No email can do that. No text can do that. It's just, it's invaluable.

I agree. Um, you know, one thing actually I do need to ask you on before you go is tell me about your website experience. Oh, it was good. Um, I hired a guy from Cali who's an East coast guy, but he's out there. Um, he did one of my, um, one of my buddies who practices in North Jersey. He recommended him and, um, he had to get first an idea of what I wanted to convey to the public and he had never heard of what I, he'd never heard of what like movement chiropractic was or anything like that. So he was like mind blown. And so we talked for hours, hours, and I would send him stuff and pictures and stuff like that and rehab videos and all that.

And, um, he, we worked together. I wrote up a lot of stuff that I got from your site and Ben's site. Um, I just really liked the way you guys did it. So I was like, I'm going to take pieces here and there. And, um, Stealer kind of put, yeah, borrower. It's Bastion et al 2018. I think you have to actually do a cannon ale to make it so you don't get penalized by the way. Really? Yeah. Cause the duplicate content, if you take text. Oh no, I changed it up. But like I got, I took like the majority, like, uh, kind of how you guys like posted it up and, um, yeah, I didn't like copy paste, but, uh, I did have a friend that did that. Really? Yeah. I said, I'm flattered, but, uh, make sure we don't have duplicate content. Duplicate content. Yeah. Well, I actually was looking up various, um, websites and some of them were almost identical. And I was like, Hmm, I wonder if there's like a website person doing this or are they just sending it to each other? That's, I think that's your, that's your chiropractic industry websites. Like I think Kyra web or like thing, thing ones like that they have, they have duplicate, but I'm sure they, I'm sure they address that. I was like, Whoa, okay. That's, I'm not going to use that one. So, but it was an awesome experience because we got to work on it together. Um, and he was very accommodating. Anything that I wanted, he would be up and working on it that minute.

And then, um, he's helping me post the blogs, um, which I know blogs are kind of going out of style, but, um, I still had to do a couple and then we paid a little bit extra to do the revolving, uh, reviews, which I thought was so worth it. So you just click on the, um, it just, I think it actually moved by itself, but the, uh, testimonials instead of like scrolling down a whole long page, it was just like click next. Right. That was cool. So it was little things like that to make it look nice. Um, I wanted more pictures of myself instead of, um, random like gifts and images. So I've been trying to get him pro photos for that and my pictures in action with patients. But, um, yeah, he, no, he was awesome experience and we still talk a lot. So nice. The, the site looks good. I'm looking at it right now. Just one thing though, cause, uh, we did run into this the other day with yours was that, uh, so I, I referred probably three people over the last couple of months. And so I'm, I'm just, I was just kind of curious to see, I'm like, well, I'm like, I don't know how they should contact him. So I'll just, I'll put Jeremy Dinkin chiropractor and, um, I can't even find your site. Yeah. That's what I'm working on is the SEO stuff. Okay. So that's, that's, I had no idea until you told me about it. And then I started Googling my page and sports, like anything, sports rehab near me, anything. And I think that one, I actually pop up now, but the other ones, it was like fifth down the, down the page. Okay. So it was, um, working on that is I gotta get, yeah, you're right. I gotta work on that more. You're the Instagram pulls up really high and, and Yelp does too, but I'll tell you this too. Cause I absolutely do not like Yelp. Okay. Hate Yelp. I, but you don't have any comments on here. I had like eight and they took them all down. Oh, I don't even see, I don't even see a, I can't even find a spot to look for review on yours because there's nothing even. Yeah. I probably, I went off on them, so they probably took me down. Well, so I, I hit some more up and, and, and people who are listening, uh, Yelp is very challenging, um, to say the least. And so, but it is helpful. And so just make sure that, uh, I don't think, I don't think there's a problem according to the people that I've spoken to about this. There's no problem with that. Like you ask your patients to write a review. Um, and you can have them post it in Yelp and Facebook and Google, I think all the same is they just have to do it from their own. Um, but if they don't have any friends on Yelp or they have done not, not reviewed anyone else ever, they're actually not going to be, it's probably going to be filtered like Jeremy's are. Right. So yeah. Yelp's kind of to challenge, but it's a necessary evil for a little bit. I know. I trust me. I know they called me like 20 times. Yeah. They won't stop. They will not stop. And the same guy.

I was like, Hey, nothing personal against you, but just, I'm not doing it right now. Like stop. They're the only place that I've almost been, like, I feel like I need to be an asshole on the phone. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. Do not call. Do not email. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Dude, they're ridiculous. Like it's, it's like harassment. It's like, they'll call my, my office. Somehow they got my cell phone and then they'll email both the office and my personal email all in the same minute. And I'll, I'll call them back. Look, do not look. Stop. And I hear, I hear the guy on the other side too, telling them what to say. Oh yeah. It's like an echo. Yeah. I'm like, dude, you guys suck. Stop calling me. Dude. It, so one of my experiences with them is that, so to, to get on your business one, right? You need your, it's not just, it's not just a password. It's a password for your personal and your business. Right. And so I have both. But in the business one, I lost my password and I couldn't find it for like three months. And so I've been emailing them, what's, what's my password? And so they would never give me my password, but they would call and talk about like payment. And I said, dude, I'll tell you what, I'm not even going to consider paying you guys until you give me my freaking password. And he's like, Oh, I'll get right on that, sir. And like, you never get it ever. No. Terrible. They're the worst. Yeah. They're the worst. Yeah. I've never, I know you said necessary evil, but I don't even think I'm going to go with them. Google was way more accommodating. Oh yeah. Um, well, I think, I mean, but you have to consider what the consumers are doing. Like consumers are looking at, at Yelp. And I personally, yeah, I personally think Google currently actually is doing a, uh, so they call Google local guides. And so I was talking to someone about this and where I, I was, I should do this as the intro to this podcast actually. So for, for a while, like, like everywhere we go, I just take pictures. Right. And they're like, why are you taking pictures? I'm like, Oh, have you not heard? I'm a local guide. And so, and so you get to like your fifth, your fifth ranking or your 10th is the top, but you have to do like 5,000 reviews to do it. And so I was like, why? Like the theory was that local guides, if you're a local guide that you're helping Google and Google help you. And I thought Google was trying to overcome Yelp with a, with that type of thing. Right. And so I'm like, I'm down. I'll, I'll do this. I'll, I'll support this. And by the way, did you hear I'm a local guide?

So yeah, sponsor me. Yeah. All right. Anything else you want before you go? I know you got to run. Um, I think that's good. What was I going to say about Google? Oh yeah. So Google didn't take down all my reviews. Yelp did. So team Google all the way. Yeah. Google won't filter any, but if you get a bad one, I think it's hard to get rid of it. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Yeah. I'll take my chances. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for being on. Uh, how can everyone reach you? Um, rsmsportsmed.com is the website, www.rsmsportsmed.com. Okay. And then Instagram, rsmathletedoc. Okay. Uh, you're in New Jersey. How far is that from like the, the largest neighboring cities? Because I know those States are small over there. Yeah. I'm about an hour from New York city and then an hour from Philly. So like right in the middle. Okay. So just in case anyone needs to refer someone, especially for a back thing, then I think, uh, like I, anything East coast, I just say, Hey, Jeremy's over there. Cause I don't know where the States are. And I just let him find it by the way. Yeah. Guy from Boston actually wanted to do a console. So that's how, how far is Boston? I think he said he was five and a half hours away. So he wanted, my mom has an Airbnb, so he was going to come stay, but I was like, you know, let's just do it on the, on the Skype first. See what happens. Oh, right on.

Yeah. Cool. So thank you for that. Yeah. No problem. East coast guy. Hell yeah. All right. Well, I will talk to you later. Uh, thanks for being on. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you for having me. And, uh, I'll talk to you soon. This might release next week, by the way. Awesome. All right. I'll talk to you later. All right. Later, man. Bye. All right. So that was Dr. Jeremy Dinkins. Thanks so much, Jeremy, for being on. Uh, it was a pleasure having you as an intern and I did learn a lot in the process. Now, as you guys kind of found there, um, Jeremy is fresh. He's fresh out of school. So if you're a student and you're looking for some suggestions of what to do, how to do it, what the bears could be, reach out to him. Um, I'll put all of his contact links in the show notes and, uh, he's, he's willing to help. He's, he's very, uh, he knows what it's like to be in your shoes. So he's, he's probably more well-versed in it right now than, than I would be. Now, this is probably going to release very quickly from the recording date. Uh, I am actually scheduled out months for this podcast in case you're wondering how I get so much of this work done. Uh, I bulk at it and I'm about two months out currently. However, we are doing an accelerated version here because our timeline on one of the projects that we've been working on is, um, it's moving.

Uh, I thought it was going to be done a month ago, but it keeps moving. And so the project in particular that I'm talking about that we're going to be covering over the next couple of weeks, uh, maybe not next week, but the following week, who knows this timeline could change again. We're waiting on one thing. We're waiting on California and Arizona to finish up with their application process. But me, Ben Ramos and Phillip Snell have come up with an online CE program specifically for chiropractors. But honestly, if you're not looking for CEs and you're a PT, ATC chiro, uh, ATC chiro, um, trainer, or even as we, uh, I talked to Jesse Prescott recently, a massage therapist, you'll, you'll learn a lot from taking this online program.

And so what we cover specifically in this is, uh, flexion intolerant backs for module one, module two, which will hopefully be out by the end of the year is going to be on cervical based conditions as well as, uh, upper quarter based conditions that are cervical based, such as the kind of quote unquote rotator cuff syndrome that doesn't really respond like rotator cuff syndrome and, um, medial epicondylitis, which is not really medial epicondylitis. And so this will be helpful for you guys to explore the things that you might be wondering, what can I get better at? And just a quick rundown of why this actually came to be, this has been a year in the making. And it's funny, uh, about last year around this time, uh, I was with Ben, uh, we were eating sushi and we were really frustrated about having to go online and take our online CEs again. And currently, if you're, if you're a doctor, you're going to know what I'm talking about with this. But if you're a student, you might not know yet, but when you get out, if in California, you got to do 24 hours of, uh, of continuing education, 12 can be online, 12 can be in person. But a lot of the courses that you go to, like I, like I haven't been to a McGill course, but let's just say McGill, he didn't sanction it as chiropractic CE base maybe. So it doesn't count, but you spent, you know, a grand to be there. Michael Shacklox might not be CE base.

I don't think it is. I think the ART ones are that I've taken. DNS, I think was, but it's not always, it isn't always based upon who's presenting, uh, or who's the host. So you, you're going to find that as you get out, you're going to find that a lot of these courses that you really want to take don't count. And so by the end of your birthday month, you're going to struggle to find these hours. And so what we've attempted to do is make the online hours so useful that you're going to want to take them first. And even if you don't need CEs, like students don't right now, you're going to want to take them because you're going to think they're the most valuable thing in the world.

And as you heard with Jeremy right there, I forced him to go to, to fix your own back when he was in clinic with me. And he came out thinking, dude, this is like game changing. This is good stuff. And so he became really good at disc, uh, and piriformis syndrome and IT band. And we talked about how these things are kind of easy. Cause a lot, these ones are, a lot of them are discogenic based. And so what we're attempting to do in that workshop on the online workshop is I want you guys to open that Pandora's box and get really good at those conditions. Cause, cause you can be a boss, you can be confident and you can definitively say that you can help strong majority of people with that type of condition. So that platform is called pro Cairo online CE and it's launching hopefully in the next couple of weeks here. If you're not in California or Arizona or Florida, they're probably in your state already in case you do need to see CEs or if you're a student, they're going to be live already.

We are breaking this into separate modules, by the way, if you want to take a little sampler chunks here and there, the original 12 hour program is, um, it's a, it's a large module, 12 hours. But as I've mentioned to some people, the Cody DMAC did a section in there on how to load people who are flexion intolerant safely and cuing them in an effective way, kind of like how me and Jeremy were talking about. And so that whole section right there would be killer, absolutely killer for a trainer, but they don't want to buy the whole 12 hour program. That's okay. And cause the other stuff is based upon examination, right? Philip Snell goes over examination. Uh, and so we're going to break these into little parts and they're going to have a smaller fee for it. But I strongly suggest that most of the interns that have come through to see me, they're wondering, how do I, how do we, how do we get people to resistance? How do we get them to load? How do we get them to daily activity and even sport? And that one with Cody DMAC is literally probably the, the best thing you can find online and cheapest thing currently that you can probably do for, um, uh, it's a video based program. It's one of the best things you can do. Okay. So I strongly encourage you guys to go look at that. And if you're wondering, how do I know all this other stuff? These are all the people that I've learned from. And we just happened to contact them to get them into this module because now we've established a relationship. So presenters on there, Philip Snell, if you're from the Northeast or Western States area, you probably know Philip. Okay. Philip is a wealth of knowledge, especially when it comes to a lumbar spine and discogenic symptoms. We have Greg Lehman. We have James Valkersel. We'll talk about nutrition. We have Cody DMAC who will talk about loading. He has a very awesome cueing. And he's actually the doc that I went to when I had a back thing. So it's a really good cueing. And, um, we also have me and Ben, uh, Ramos are doing the ethics portion on module two. So far, we have Guido van Rice again, which you have, if you haven't heard, he's on, uh, I think podcast one 21 talking about attractor States, excellent stuff. He's an ATC. We have Michael Shacklock who we've recorded part of the content for us so far. So we think these guys are going to be on, but, uh, we need to clarify some things with them. And if you're wondering about how nerves work within the body, we we've already gone straight to the source. Michael's the dude. Okay. So we already got him recording there and he's going to be doing a sampler platter for his, uh, enough to where you can make it a pliable, but, uh, but also enough to where you're going to want to go to his workshop as well.

Ben's going to go through a physical exam with that. I might go over history taking with that. And Dr. DMACC, Dr. Cody is going to go over loading for shoulder as well. So these are going to be invaluable to you. I promise you it's the best money you're ever going to ever going to spend. But over the next couple of weeks, we're going to be going over the presenters with that. And so I apologize for the delay. I know some of you have been asking me for this. Um, but we were currently, uh, credentialing or accreditation is harder than we ever thought. So hopefully the module two will be out by the end of the year. So I'll see you guys next week. Lead people better than how you found them. And always, if you're dating, date an Eagle Scout. They're usually honorable and badass. All right. I'll talk to you guys soon.