Active care, home exercise and fear of deadlifting

What kind of, like, for example, if someone says, how can I get, because a problem with chiro school is that they prepare you to be a good chiropractor, but when it comes to the business side, it's kind of like weak. And I've seen a lot of people that they graduate and they're good doctors and they say, oh, because I'm good, patients will come through my door. But real life, that doesn't happen. So how do you actually get patients to your door? What was your, just that, joining local groups or? You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery.

And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey guys, it's Sebastian Gonzales, your host for the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thanks for doing the movement, movement. This is your first time. Welcome. That was part of the interview with Raul today, Aksmal, Aksmal. I mean, you typically get people's last names wrong. He'll correct me in there. However, he's a student with quarter four at one of the chiropractic colleges. So we're going to learn what he is experiencing in school and what he's learned so far. And so we do cover lots of topics in here, as well as communication and implementation of active care, as well as just starting business.

So it's going to be helpful for a lot of people. Now, this podcast is typically related at, or the goal is to actually get people to communicate better, all right? Doctors and patients need to communicate. Doctors tend to have their own language. Patients don't tend to have the understanding of that language. So we just tend to blend that line. So patients can have better understanding of what's supposed to happen with them, what their outcome should be. And so they can also be empowered as well. Now, if you have not gone back into the archives, I've done a ton of great interviews with a lot of great people, a lot of the experts in the field, as well as some solo ones, which are a little bit more.

We're going to do a lot more case studies over the next year or so. However, there are lots of great information back in the archives. If you have not seen them or heard them already, then you're missing out. So go back there and check it out. Now, before we get in the interview, again, a classic part of the show is that I'm going to share a little bit about myself via personal story, just so you guys can figure out who your host is. So hopefully you like your host. And if you meet me in a workshop, you're going to say, dude, I want to hang. Let's chat. You know, it's hard to get people to know you if you're interviewing people.

So this is just sharing a part of myself. So we'll get into that first, then we'll get right into the interview. So growing up, I did like a lot of movies with like David Spade in it. And David Spade, actually, he was in a, if you don't know who David Spade is, he's a long haired type of guy who does Joe Dirt and he's just kind of quirky in his actions. And he was a standup comedian and he was also on SNL. And so, um, I, every time I don't seek his stuff typically, but I tend to, when I see him, I'm like, dude, I love David Spade. He's so great, you know? And so, um, the other night I was watching Rules of Engagement, which is a show that he's on, which I'm actually going second time through because I haven't seen it a long time.

And so I watched him like, dude, I love David Spade. He's so cool. I wonder if David Spade does comedy anymore. Standup comedy. So I looked and I'm like, dude, David Spade's going to be in Brea. I want to go to that. It ain't that expensive. I'm going to text some friends. So I text some friends and I said, hey man, David Spade, you want to go? One friend's like, nah, David Spade's not like my type of humor. Thanks, man. Another guy's like, ah, you know, like money's a little hard and like, uh, I don't think I want to spend on that. And like, no, I don't think so. And another guy said, dude, I think some of those movies like skewed your judgment and your humor's off.

And finally one guy did say yes. However, each of those people I responded to, number one, you're anti-American if you don't love David Spade because David Spade is like America's poster boy. All right. Second is, is you've lost your humor over the years and I hate you now. So David Spade is the man. And if you have a chance to see him in standup, I have not seen him yet as the point of this podcast, but I really want to. It's an icon, man. Some of your icons. So David Spade, check him out. Cool. Are you ready? Hey, let's welcome on Raul. Raul, how do you say your last name again? Raul, Axe Mayer.

Axe Mayer. Yep. What is Axe Mayer? What is it? Yeah. Like what is the root origin? I have no idea. I know it's from Austria. Oh, really? That's all I know. I imagine it with an axe, like a, like a X, A, with an E instead of the T after the X. Oh, A-X-T. Yeah. Axe Mayer. I'm sure I'll mess it up on the intro when I record the intro. So tell everyone about yourself, where you're going to school and what's going on. Yeah. So yeah, my name is Raul, Axe Mayer. I'm a fourth quarter student at Palmer College of Chiropractic, the Port Orange, Florida campus. I have a bachelor's degree in kinesiology. I actually went to school for undergrad in Puerto Rico, and I moved down here last year to start chiropractic school.

Nice. I didn't realize you were too. So quarter four is, I thought you were a little bit higher than that. Quarter four is of 12, right? Yep. Okay. So what are you guys doing in quarter four? It's still a lecture. We have one practical class, lumbopelvic technique, but it's basically still basic sciences, GI, GU, all of that. Oh, how's that going? It's been great. I mean, it's boring to be eight, nine hours in a classroom, but it is what it is. You have to do it. Is everybody starting to like, I think it's like, you know, you're like when you're in a chiropractic or PT class, when people no longer sit and they start pacing the back of the room because they don't want to sit that long.

That's exactly what happened. But yeah, it's been fine. So how did you get into, how did you get into chiropractic school? Like, why did you decide to go to chiropractic versus other places? So actually, I was between chiropractic and physical therapy. I mean, I knew I was going to do something in the physical health related. I've always been an athlete. I was a college athlete, college baseball. But I decided chiropractic because I think it's easier to start your own business being a chiropractor rather than a physical therapist. And also in a lot of states and back home, physical therapists need a referral from an MD to be able to see patients.

And I don't want that. I want everyone to come to my door and without a referral so that it makes business a little bit easier. So it was kind of like more of that. So you kind of knew in the beginning that you want to do your own business and you didn't want to. Like you wanted to have just like direct access to people you didn't want to deal with having to someone gateway to you, right? Exactly. I didn't want to depend on a referral or something like that. And I already knew how I wanted to practice before coming to school. So I came to chiropractic school just because it was a little bit easier when it comes to business.

Have you owned a business before? I have not. I mean, I have an online personal training. I've been doing that for like three or four years, but not a physical business per se. Oh, got it. So you said you already kind of knew how you wanted to practice, so you have a good idea. How did you get that idea as so concrete right now? So I did a lot of shadowing before school. I shadowed chiropractors and also physical therapists. And I actually didn't like a lot the kind of treatment they gave because we all of us know that the majority of doctors just do like some passive mental therapy. They give STEM hot packets and they move on.

And I actually didn't like that. And I also saw that patients actually didn't get a lot better and they weren't happy with the care. So I was like, hey, this is not what I want to do. I want to do something better. And then I started reading more, educating myself outside from the classroom. And I knew and as soon as I saw that, I knew what I would what I wanted to do. Yeah. So you got you got an advantage then with I think a lot of people going to school and they have they don't really have an idea of what to expect. But yeah, a lot of students here don't still don't know what they want to do.

Yeah. It's I'm sure the curriculum kind of takes them through a little bit of exposure to everything. Right. Yep. That's right. Yeah. That's so just curious then, because I actually I didn't like I personally didn't go shadow a lot of people when I before I went in. But I did have an injury. So I had been to different places. And so I never got to see like the patients, all the patients like interactions and like how they fared and so on. But there's a lot of clinics out there like that. You know what I mean? And people go to them like, why are they? Oh, hello. His video just came up. Yeah, it's weird.

Why do you why do you think people are still going there? Like, because because you're observing they weren't really happy with the results and so on. Right. So I think it's because they accept their health care insurance. I didn't actually shadow anyone that's cash based. And I know that a lot of people, at least back home, they don't want to pay from their cash from their pocket. You know. So if someone if your health insurance plan pays for your treatment, even though you don't like it, even though it's not the best one, you're still going to go there because it's basically free for you. Yeah.

I mean, I almost wonder if like people like it's funny, like we have people call sometimes that are like they're like, I know my health insurance is crummy. I doubt it'll cover. And then they're very open to paying for their care. I mean, they might not like to pay the amount that we're charging, but they but they're they know they're going to have to pay a little bit more out of pocket versus those people who are like, well, I think my health insurance plan. My insurance will cover part of it. Then all of a sudden there's that blockade of let's they want to see what that'll do. And then it's like a it's like a stalemate point, you know.

I actually like your ring ring podcast. It was it was it was helpful. Have you played the game yet? I haven't played it. I mean, in my mind, but not with anyone. Yeah, it's it's tough. I like it's funny. Right after I did that, like I started I took a phone call and it was it was somebody who it was towards the end of the day. And they did they did the whole you take insurance. I said, nope. And they said, all right, cool. Goodbye. And I'm like, shit, I just like I should I feel like I need to commit towards the end of the day. Like when I'm just I don't want to deal with like that type of phone call that I just let it go straight to the to the answering service or something.

I got a question for you. How hard was to start your cash based practice? You know, it wasn't that challenging from the beginning. My obviously my rates were a little bit they were a bit lower before. And so I think it was it was easy to say that it was it was easier to collect money from people because I was comfortable with paying that to somebody else if I needed to. But also, too, like I was I was talking to an intern the other day about like like is it like should we should we go cash or like why charge a difference of like a large difference of cash amount versus like the guys down the street who charge like 50 bucks.

Right. And so I I've heard this before. I forget in what form, but let's just say if we have a house. So again, houses, they have comparables. So it's like two bedroom, two bath, you know, 500 square feet, whatever it might be. And so you search and you're like, here's all the comparable properties. And so you get an idea of what it's worth. Now, if you had two and a half, two and a half rooms plus a tree house plus a three car, sorry, 15 car garage and there's nothing comparable in the area, all of a sudden that it's not as comparable to anything. And so if my services in the beginning, they weren't they were more active release tissue base and I wasn't really the adjusting guy.

And so because of that there and there wasn't a lot of people around at the time that did that. And so there really wasn't a comparable. And even now, like the pricing that we do, it's it's it's more so than other people. But also, too, there's literally no one else around that I know of that will do anything close to the same. And so because of that, too, I don't I don't boast that like, hey, you're going to get an adjustment with this, because if I even start talking about that, then now I'm I'm venturing into the comparables. So, yeah, I guess your question of how hard was it? I don't think it was very hard.

There was there was more insurance that I use back in the day as kind of like a buffer as comfort. OK, but I really didn't seek people with insurance. It was just like, hey, this person has a problem. I know my price is fair to me or I know I would pay it. So I feel comfortable asking for it for that person. And I think the confidence of asking them for that money made the practice start. And it wasn't I guess I don't know what it was was really like to have a full insurance based practice because I never we never did it. And what I what made you change from being an ART based guy to more of a movement for active exercise?

So I think I shared part of this in the in the book that I wrote. And it was it was kind of the lines of like so me and me and Cody DMACC, we were like we were about like probably five minutes away from each other, like practice wise, about 15 or so. And but we just we didn't talk about a lot of clinical stuff. When we first met, we just went and had beer and beer and pizza. And it's nice to hang out with people who understand what you go through throughout the day. You know, so he's in the Cairo. And so as we started to kind of learn what each other were doing, I did a lot of tissue based and he did a lot of loading.

And I remember one day he was he'll he'll probably say I didn't say this, but I remember he said something to this effect. And so it was something like, man, I saw like 10 people today. I didn't touch one of them. And I'm like, how do you not touch one of them? You know, and so it's more of like just figuring out like, hmm, like there's other things that will help people which are not manual therapy based. And I know that when I first started practicing, I'd stop snowboarding. I was I was afraid of falling, breaking my wrist. So it's like I can't practice if I can't touch the person. So the the definitive movement cueing and offloading and more of like McGill style and like end range loading, it was it's helpful to diversify.

But people got better results from it in my observation. So that's kind of how we went that route. OK. Yeah. That's nice. What about what about you? What? So you're you're starting more of the like you're more of the exercise based correction, right? Yep. Active component. So do you do you anticipate using manual therapies a bit or not at all or partially? I'm I'm not anti manual therapy. I just think there's 100 better ways to do stuff and that will actually get the patients better. And I think that a bad part about manual therapy is that it makes the patient dependent on you or feel dependent on you.

So, yes, I think I'm going to use some manual therapy, even though it's not going to be my main treatment. But it's also good to create that patient report and relationships because we're humans, you know, and we crave touch sometimes and that creates some confidence and trust with the patient. So, yeah, I will use a manual therapy, but it just won't be the main number one treatment. Yeah. I'm finding I find that it's more productive with chronic people rather than like acute, like incidental acute cases. Yeah. Do you do you use manual therapy at all or I do? It's it's more more of a it's like the way I explain to people is that I want to do a movement based correction first and see if they can decrease their own symptoms with some type of home based dosage exercise.

And after that, it's like we're going to muddy the water some and it's like whatever remains, if there's a need for it, we will do it. But if there's not a need for it in the beginning, in the beginning, it's really hard to start blasting it with stuff like that because we have not unmuddied the water yet. We haven't addressed the easy wins and calmed the inflammatory effect on or whatever we might call it, you know. So but that's I we don't use it. I don't use it extremely often. Most of the time, I mean, I think yesterday we saw 10 people. I was probably only in the back office, like the exam room, doing manual therapy for like less than 10 percent of the time.

OK. So do you do you prescribe or program movements or exercises for their home? Right. Yeah. And how do you get the patients to actually do it? Because I see a lot of people that they have their homework, if you want to call it like that, and they actually don't do it. So how do you get them? Well, so I don't know if you've had this experience yet. And I know I'm going to I'm going to assume because you're quarter four that you might not you don't have as much patient interaction. Right. And so my observation with with people who have not had a big patient interaction yet is that they can't use symptoms as a guide or outcome measure.

And so most people will come in. So let's just say a guy a guy came in yesterday. And so he was he was past a flexion intolerant back discogenic types of complaints. We've been we've been doing some end range loading and some more McGill style stuff and hip loading for a couple of weeks. And he comes he comes he comes infrequently. He's not like an every week person. And so he comes back in this next time and he and he he bends over. He's like he's like, it's much better. It's up my leg. It's now it's into the buttocks area. And so we talked about centralization in the beginning. And so he bends forward.

And I said, what still bothers you? He's like putting on my shoes in the morning. I said, show that. And so it is a standing version of tries to go down and touch his feet kind of thing. And so on the surface, it looks like he can't bend forward. However, when you do a compression test on him, like a seated compression test inflection, it doesn't hurt. And so he does have positive slumps test. And so we did sliders on him. And then we did 10 sliders and he was able to touch his toes. No problem. So with that being said, the reason I bring it up is so his homework at that point was some sliders.

As well as a couple other things. And so he'll see a change in his movement, like extremely. He's like, oh my God, it doesn't hurt, you know? And I'm like, that's the power of doing this. So do it at home. So they get to see the before and after immediately in there. But if you don't have any one of the real symptom, it's hard to see the power of those exercises and see the light go on in patient's eyes, you know? Once they see their results, they have the motivation to do it, actually. Yeah, but there are other people I've seen that, and you probably see it with online coaching. They just don't have the accountability, you know?

Or the problem's not that important to them. So how do you usually deal then with people who are, like, let's say, do you have anyone in online coaching where they just don't do anything? Yeah, there's a couple of them. There's always one. How do you motivate them? I try to keep the communication going weekly. I mean, not every single day because it's just impossible because I don't have the time. But I – and whenever I see someone that's not motivated and I know they've done a great work, they have positive changes, I just make them reflect on how they were before they started and where they're at now.

And it works more like 80%, 90% of the time it actually works. But then there's those 10% of people that – it just doesn't work for them. And I haven't found a way to make 100% of the clients be, like, accountable or do their work. But I'm happy with the 90 other percent people that actually do the work and put in the work and have the results. Yeah. That's pretty good. 90% is good. Like, the – I personally think it's hard to have a – like, you're not going to have 100% success rate. I don't think anybody can. And it's – I don't think there's anything wrong with, like, say, taking those 10% and, like, say they just – so one person just blatantly just won't answer your emails or won't pick up your text or won't do the work.

It's like, I don't think there's anything wrong with just telling that person, look, we're not a good fit for each other. You know. Definitely. And that'll improve your success rate. Yeah. Not everyone will work for you, so. Yeah. And the coaching or the treatment is not for everyone, so. Yeah. Well, so when – as you're going through school right now, is there anything, like, coming up in the next couple of terms that you're actually excited to learn? I'm excited to be finished with quarter six because we take boards one and it's more clinical because basic scientists, yes, they're fine and we have to know the stuff.

But once you get to quarter seven, eight, nine, it's more of a clinical-based curriculum and that's what we're going to actually see at the clinic or at our work or whatever. So I'm looking forward to it. It's less than six months away. Do people in those clinics, like eight, nine, ten, do they tend to see other students or do you see, like, Gen Pop? I know the quarter 10, 11, 12, it's everyone that comes to the clinic. But before, I think it's just students. Huh. You start collecting your students right now of people who are – at SCU, anyways, I think there's been a – I think they started having students pay for the care.

It used to be free when I was there. If you just roll in, you're like, hey, Joe, come on in. Like, I want to get my credits and work with somebody. But now they got to pay. So I think – I was talking to one guy and he's like, I think I'm going to have a lot of people coming in the clinic because he spent enough time talking in these other groups where he's – now the students are like, oh, I want to go see this doc or this intern, you know? The clinic here is free for only adjustments but every soft tissue or anything that's not adjustment, they have to pay. Oh, really? What if – do you guys have like a sports medicine, like a weight room there, a rehab area that you use?

Yeah, they have a couple of squat racks and they just did like a whole active rehab area. There's actually a program that you could get into. Oh, cool. So if you were then to prescribe movement exercise, what would that cost somebody at that clinic there? I have no idea actually. Because if you spent like – is that time-based? Is it like they got 15 minutes and they're going to pay this amount? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So you couldn't – someone couldn't just roll in and say, hey, Raul, I want you to train me today therapeutically. I don't think so. No, that's impossible there. At least not in the clinic.

Yeah. That's cool. Are you going to stay in Florida after you're done? I think so for a couple of years. Mm-hmm. So what – how do you envision your practice going then since you kind of talked about you're going to start your own business? How do you envision that looking? I think that right when I get out of school, right when I graduate, I'm thinking about starting off from an office from a local CrossFit gym and just go from there. Because I think it's a good spot to make clients. Because if people pay for CrossFit, CrossFit is not cheap as we know. So if you're in that environment, you can get clients.

You could give free classes, workshops, and they can start to understand how you could help them. Because I want to do like 50-50, yes, I want to work with active people, athletes, and all of that. But I also want to treat older adults with chronic pain because the results, the outcomes we know are really poorly right now in the United States when it comes to chronic pain. And I think that if I can find a way to help them, that could be my niche if you want to call it like that. So then I'll play devil's advocate on a couple of these things then. So number one, I guess if you're in a CrossFit gym, do you think the chronic pain geriatrics are going to be okay with walking into a gym to have care?

Or is that going to be a… Not for the CrossFit gym. That's why I said that I wanted to start there just to get people to know me better. And right when I have my name out there, I could start right on my other clinic and other stuff. But I think it's a good starting point to see people. So I guess the other thing that it's just, you know, I was thinking when you started saying CrossFit is that I feel like everybody's goal out of school, or a lot of people, is to rent from a CrossFit gym. I think, like, I feel like CrossFit is, like, there's a lot of people targeting them. So do you think there'll be an issue with competition?

There might be it. And it's not to be sassy, but I know that I could do a better work than just a regular cardio or whatever. Yeah. In my experience with some of the gyms around here, it's, I mean, there's quite a few gyms everywhere. So I suggested teaching tension workshops. Because I went to one of their Olympic lifting workshops with, I forget who was teaching it, but, like, more than half the people in there, in my opinion, should not have been learning this Olympic lift. And their just, tension was poor, and it's like, like, they do have injuries coming out of those gyms. So I was like, look, let me just teach this workshop.

You know, like, you just do 20 bucks a head just to make sure they're serious about it. You keep the money. I don't care. You keep the money, but I want to teach this. I didn't get anybody, like, who's even interested. And I even got, I got a couple friends that go to the gym. I was like, look, man. I'm like, I'm like, I've met the owner. You know the owner. He comes over to your house for a barbecue. Tell him that this is good stuff. You know? And so the warm intros don't always tend to work. Because there's probably also, too, like, I think in that gym, there's two other chiropractors who actually work out there physically as members.

And so that's a direct competition on there, even though I know, sassy-wise, I can do a better job, too. You know? If I get the opportunity to open up my own stuff right after school, I'm definitely going to do it. But it's like you said, a buffer, because it's cheaper just to go and rent a room out of a gym rather than just open your clinic from zero. Yeah. You might be able to rent a room out of another clinician's office, though, too. That would also be good, too. Yeah. But I do like the ability to use the weight room. Yeah. That's also why, because if you have the gym right there, you don't have to pay a lot of, like, weights, barbells, or kettlebells, whatever you're going to use, because you already have that on the gym.

Mm-hmm. What do you think, then, what do you think you're going to find, typically, in your CrossFit population when you walk in there? What's that ideal patient going to look like? I mean, most of the injuries that I've seen in CrossFit are overload injuries, because I like the idea of CrossFit, and it works, but I think there's some poor programming there. There's people that, as you said, they don't know how to do the whole movement, like the basics, and they're just snatching or cleaning and jerking, which is, you know, it's not that good for them if they're not prepared. So I think the number one injury I'm going to see, it's overload.

They have a lot of shoulder stuff, because they're always over the head pressing, some hip problems, because I think everyone at CrossFit or at the gym has always had some hip problems. I think those are going to be the top injuries we'll see. Mm-hmm. But is everybody just going to come in for that vibrating gun? No. Well, that's another issue. Yeah, I guess. Now, a really quick break from our sponsor. Pro Chiro Online CE is a brand-new platform for online chiropractic education. A lot of times, through different states, many states, online hours are allowed. So if you've already been a chiropractor for a while, you probably realize, hey, I didn't get credit for that course and that course, but I need some hours.

My birthday's coming. All right? And so this is a really common problem. And if you're just like me, you've gone online and you've gone through these courses where you literally don't learn a single thing and it's boring, okay? So we've actually mitigated this problem. Myself, Philip Snell, Ben Ramos, all the people you already trust, curated content together with some of the best presenters on certain topics, and you get credit for it. All right? Consider, though, one of our participants did say that he would have taken the video courses. He would have watched them regardless of if he got CE credits or not.

So remember that. The videos in themselves are amazing. The content is amazing. The clinical pearls are amazing, but you get CEs as well. So go check it out. I promise you won't be disappointed. Now back to the content. I don't know why those things, like, I don't think I ever looked one up, really, but as I scroll through Instagram, I swear to God, like probably every 10 posts is someone using a vibrating gun. Yeah, and you see all of those CrossFit athletes on Instagram using those. But they pay them to actually do that. So they're not going to stop using them. Yeah. They pay them for advertisement, too.

Have you used them before? I've used them before, but it doesn't do miracles. It's just some short-term relief. And it just feels good, right? After hitting squats, it feels good to have, like, a vibration massager in your quads or anything. But it definitely doesn't take pain away or whatever. Yeah. There was, I forget what school it was, but there was one school where I heard that the clinic or the clinicians in the student clinic, they no longer allow those tools. On the clinic here, they don't allow those vibration massages. Yeah. So, because people were bringing them in, they're like, please stop doing this.

Yep. Yeah. That's funny. We actually, we had this tool back when I was a, it was a, it was called a G5. It was a, it was a very expensive vibrating tool. And, uh, people would come in though, and that was in the, in the, in the, in the PPR, um, people would come in and they're like, like, they finished off their care and everything. They're like, hey, can I get like, can I get like five minutes of that? And they're like, yeah, sure. You know, and so you just use it on them. Um, it made your skin itchy, I remember, but they walked out like so happy. So, um, I wouldn't be opposed to using something like that just for like, just goodwill.

Not really for treatment. Why do you think patients love that so much? I don't know. But I, I do remember going to the fair when I was a kid and there was a thing called a footsie-wootsie. And so it was a vibrating platform for your feet. And so when you walked off that thing, you felt like you were walking on clouds for about 10 minutes and then it all came back. Yeah, it feels good. Yeah. I think, I think people just like to be touched and pampered a little bit sometimes. And if they are really dealing with some ongoing pain, it's like, it's nice to do your correctives. But it's like, I remember I went home one time where I was having some back stiffness and I just, I just laid down and I was like, I don't want to do any corrective, like, I don't want to do, I just would rather just lay here, make it go away, or have someone rub it.

You know? Yeah. It, it, it feels good and it feels better. Yeah. And if you have a patient that's in pain and you give him a massage or use a hyperbole or anything, and if they walk through the door with that, with less pain, they're, they're going to feel better. They're just going to love it. Yeah. So why not use it? Well, there's a lot of clinics built that way. They, they must be doing something right. So, you know, I don't know. The, the, uh, are, are you working with, uh, other students yet for, uh, are you guys, are you an R2P club over there? We don't have an R2P club. Um, so the most similar club to R2P is functional rehab, but it doesn't even compare.

So you're going to start it? Uh, we want, I was talking with Grant, the rehab fix guy and we, we were in with Geronimo and we were trying to start it, but we, we haven't had the chance to talk with the superiors or the doctors. Do you have to actually get, you have to get the school, you have to get the school to clear it or? Yeah, we have to get the school to clear it. And then we have, we need like one or two doctors to be the, like the observance and actually to work with you. Because yes, you need two doctors and then you need your student staff, which was going to be Geronimo and I. But we haven't had the support from people, so, or from the doctors or from the school.

Oh, so you just basically just have to wait for Grant to get his license and, or can he be the observer? Yeah, I hope he, I hope that when, once he has the doctors, like the degree, I think it'll be much easier because we have a doctor helping us. Yeah. And he was the one that asked us if we wanted to start it, it came from him. Yeah. So he wants to actually start it. With the, I'm surprised that like headquarters then, like if you reach out to like, who is Marianne in charge right now, I think, or I forget who is right now, of R2P. But, um, if you reach out to them, if they can then reach out to the school type of thing, because I know that they want to establish clubs places.

That could maybe work also. Yeah. Or worst case, you just got guys who hang out in a garage and just start, you know. And just start our own stuff. Just do movement flows with each other. Just dance. Yeah. It's better than nothing. Yeah. We didn't have any that I recall. We did have movement palpation. Yeah. We have motion palpation here too. Yeah. I think, uh, I forget what else we had actually too, but it was, I remember I would show up anywhere where there was pizza or Greek food. Yeah. Whenever there's free food, there's students going to be there. Yeah. Uh, so far in school, is there anything that you've, you have been disappointed in?

Like what will be nice to the school, but anything you were like, Hmm, I thought this was going to be better or, um, I did not enjoy that topic. Um, so yeah, there's been days like that. Um, I, I kind of like knew how school was here with all of the philosophies, subplexations and innate intelligence and all of that, but that's chiropractic. Um, but I didn't know it was going to be as much of that stuff. I only thought it was going to be maybe one or two quarters of philosophy and that's it. Um, but I'm a year in and we're still taking stuff of subluxations and innate intelligence and how it works with the body.

Um, I think that the main thing that has me a little bit disappointed is that there's a lot of outdated, um, information that evidence says it's not right, but they keep teaching it. And I understand the part that maybe boards ask it, but if I could change something, I would definitely change that and bring more evidence-based and the new research education. That's actually been proven and just get rid of the outdated and BS stuff that we get taught here. And it's not here. I bet it's in every chiropractic college. Yeah. I know some of them were a little bit heavy with certain topics. And, um, I think we, if I can reflect back on, on, on, on SCU, we, I want to say we only had one or two philosophy classes.

It's crazy. At all. We, we called it story time. Um, but yeah, I think, um, like, I don't know if you guys go through adjusting early, like some of the schools like go through adjusting from day one or at least manual care. We don't even hit it till term six where we were and it was only 10 terms. Wow. You started late, a little bit late. Or maybe it was four, but it was after the first year we didn't, we didn't touch anyone. We've had practical classes since quarter one. We're not adjusting, but we know all of the setups and we had all of the pulp, motion, palpation, static palpation, and all of that.

So, and actually every single quarter we get like, we specialize in one part of the body. For example, quarter two was cervical thoracic adjustments. And you learn all of the setups with all of the, they teach us four techniques here and you get all of the setups from all of those techniques. And then this quarter is lumbosacral, so you learn all of the side palpures, all of the drops and all of that. So, we have the practical part, but we're actually not doing the adjustment. It's everything except the thrust. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, basically that's boards you set up and then you don't. Exactly.

They give you the listing and you do what you have to do. Yeah. I don't know if you guys have done this yet. Like, I think this took me a couple years to really figure out in practice that if, like, say someone's on your table and they're seated and you're doing range of motion cervical spine testing, let's just say. And so, they turn to the right. And so, yeah, like, yeah, that hurts. And so, you take like a couple segments below. I tend to pick like thoracic spine, like T1, T2, T3, just because I don't want to even be close to the area of symptom just to prove a point. And so, I'll take the SP and then push it into relative right rotation or of the body goes into right rotation.

And so, then they turn right again. So, I'm assisting them with lower segment movement and they're like, huh, that's better. Better. And so, it just kind of gives them the notion that there's a possibility that the other regions of the spine or the body tie into what their problem is. Are affecting their pain or range of motion. Yeah. Did they, I don't know if they do that. I didn't do motion palpation. Do they do that kind of stuff or is it just filling the segment of concern? Yep. They teach the motion palpation quarter one of cervical, thoracic, lumbar, everything. Nice. Good. It's fun. It's practical.

You're going to be more ahead than I was, I think. I hope so. Yeah. What, so I know that we talked on Instagram a little bit and I asked you about what you wanted to cover. Is there anything in particular that you think, when people listen to this interview that you took, they're like, dude, that guy had something to drop or a thought provoking thing. Like what is, what's maybe something that you wanted to get off your chest? Uh, let me think. Um, I don't have like a specific topic right now, but I did have a question for you and maybe I'll think about something. Okay. Yeah. Um, so if you were in school right now with the amount of knowledge that you have, whenever you get thought like some BS, for example, if someone says to you, if a professor says to you that he's moving the bones or he teaches some BS stuff that you know is not right.

So what would you do with, would you sit and take it all in, uh, would you talk with him in private or like what would be your, well, I, I think there's, I mean, I really attempt to not like, I wrote, I wasn't like this in school, but like, let's just say now, um, I, I really attempt to minimize the biases that I have when I'm listening to someone's information. And even if somebody like, say they, they, they email and complain about, you know, what something I read or something I wrote. And so it's like, great. Like, what do you have, like, what do you not like, you know, and, uh, how would you improve this or what did you expect to, to hear?

And so I think the criticism is important to, to, to get a good reflection of what people perceive your treatment as, uh, or what you wrote as in that case. So in the case of maybe the professor, like, uh, I would, I might not use the information, but I want to know about it. And so it's like, okay, so when you move the bone, I might, if, if I talk to him, um, if I didn't feel comfortable asking this in class, I'd maybe ask him in private. It's like, when you move the bone, do you feel it or something? You know, and he's like, yeah, I do feel it. Then, okay, what does that feel like to you? Well, you can feel it just kind of shift and like, well, so how do you, like, is there a way that someone like me, who has not experienced this yet?

How can I experience this feeling that you're talking about? And so I think everybody's got some gems to kind of drop on you. Um, and in this case, let's just say, if you didn't use that bone moving type of like practice or philosophy, um, and you say you only did corrective stuff, then, um, still, maybe you might get some communication out of them. Um, that's, that's useful, uh, analogies, um, or maybe there might be that certain case where you're like, this is actually very helpful, you know? So I would just, just take it in the light that it's, it's intended, um, in regards to experiencing what you're, what you're learning in school as a, as an experience, not just, not just, uh, not just clinical knowledge.

You know, there's, um, uh, I even go through like when I, I don't, I don't watch standup comedy that much, but there's periods of time where I'll, I'll, I'll watch some standup comedy. And so I don't really care about their jokes as much as I care about why does this joke work and what's the delivery. So there's pauses, there's ways people say things that are actually very important in human communication. So I, we know that communication is key and important. Um, I know that you're a movement based or corrective exercise based, uh, doctor. So do you actually educate patients on, because all of us know that right now on Instagram and social media, everyone's into pain science or pain education, but the reality is that patients actually don't care per se about the pain.

They just want to know if they're going to get better. So where do you find the balance on between only exercises and, but also communicating them that they're going to be okay or educating them on their pain. So, yeah, I, I tend to go with the, uh, so like the first interaction, like I don't, I don't blast them with like education unless they really ask for it. And sometimes they'll ask for too much because like there was a guy the other day that, uh, I forget the exact question he was asking, but it was something like, um, you know, what about, um, what do you think about that groin issue? Um, when are we going to address that?

And, uh, he wanted to know kind of all about it. And so I'm like, I'm like, look, by the time I'm like within the next three days or so, if you do what I told you to do, you won't even ask about that again. And so it's, it's, uh, if he persists with it, I will tell him about the reasons why and so on. Like I'm not opposed to patient, uh, a patient education. I actually prefer it, but also too, if it steals away from like getting the person to do what I want them to do to test the theory, to see if I can help them, then I, then I'm a little bit more opposed to it. Um, and so typically in the first interaction, my goal is to build trust.

Okay. Like I listened to them. I, I, you know, I echo back of the things that I read on their intake. I see that you want to, you know, you want to run Boston coming up here. Um, you're concerned that you're going to get old and that this is going to stay forever. I'll tell you right now, based upon the exam that I've done, I feel pretty confident that's not going to be a problem. Okay. And so if you have any questions for me along the way, just ask, but just know that I've, I've screened you out for hip impingement, uh, labral tears, um, tendonitis is hip flexor syndrome, muscle spasms, trigger points, discogenic low back pain, disc herniations, nerve root impingement, blah, blah, blah.

And so kind of on their general terms. So it's like, I'm going to say, look, like I'm screening you out for all these things. And I want you to know that I got your best interest in mind. And if you have, again, if you have questions, ask me, but if I did not talk about it, it's because I don't think it's important yet. Yeah. And so I'm trying to establish more of that. I'm guiding them. Um, and, and during which, like, say, like, say I'll go out into the, um, weight room and I'll show them, um, say in this case with, with the hip, I might show them. That we're doing, um, some type of glute primer or like a clamshell or whatever I decided to pick.

And, uh, they're like, my hips pains in front. Why are we doing the backside? I said, that's a great question. The hips actually, they, they function better when we have the glutes helping as well. And so I'm testing this theory to see if doing this helps out with your symptoms. So what hurt again? Oh, it's bending, uh, squatting down. Good. Squat down. Does that hurt? Yeah. Okay, cool. Let's do this one. Good. Go ahead and stand up again. How's that feel? Oh, that's way better. Good. So it's, again, it's a trust building thing. And so I guess your question with, you know, between the pain sciences and like over, I think, uh, educating them extremely versus none at all.

It's a, it's where they take the conversation. So when, if at all do you address, let's say someone got hurt or injured, uh, doing a deadlift, um, and you know, you cleared everything and you know, there's no tissue damage. When, if ever do you address the psychological part of it? Do you get them deadlifting again, um, if they don't want to go, how do you address that? Um, so actually probably recently I did a poor job with a patient on this is that they were, they were, they were, they were hurting while deadlifting. And so, um, they've had, they were crossfitter, but also too, they had a different goal of, um, passing a test.

And so I thought, well, okay, so she's lifting a lot, uh, frequently through CrossFit. I might as well teach her a deadlift. And so after doing that, like she did feel better. And I went through some of the, um, some of the other, uh, preventative work prior to, uh, we did end range loading cause she was discogenic in this case. And we also did bird dogs and glute primers and went into the deadlift from blocks and so on. And at the very end, she's like, I don't really even care about deadlifting. I just want to feel better and pass this test. I'm like, well, shit, I didn't even need to do that.

Depends on the patient's goals too. Yeah. So, um, but if they, if they, I did have another patient recently that she, she wants to back squat. She just wants it. And so I even, I even directed her to like the Mike Boyle, no more back squatting type of article just to see if she would bite. And, uh, I don't have a, I don't have a problem with back squatting, but, um, it, it's just a higher risk to reward ratio than I wanted for her at that point. And so she would persist like every time she's like, when am I going to put a bar on my back? I'm like, well, why do you want to do that? And she's like, it just makes me feel good.

I said, fine, let's do it. And so in that case, I'll take them through it. She was not fearful of the movement. So I didn't go have to go nutso with it. But other people are fearful with it. In that case, I tell them, you don't even have to lift a barbell over your shoulders ever again. Like you'll feel perfectly fine not doing that. Let's try a different way. So, um, so I don't know if that, that addressed your question. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Yeah. You have, you have, you had fearful people yet? Cause those are. Yeah. There I, for example, uh, my dad, he was scared of that lifting. Uh, he's 68 years old, uh, cause he, and he's even an MD, but they, they don't know a lot of MSK, uh, and they know nothing of weight training.

Um, and he told me that he wouldn't start in the gym. So we started, I made sure he had nothing wrong. So, and then we started, we were going to start deadlifting and he was like, Oh, like I can't do this because I can have these bulges and I can get better, blah, blah, blah. Um, and the only way I could get him doing it instead of starting from a regular deadlift, I just started with the rack pools. Um, and even though he didn't know it, it, it also addressed his psychological part because whenever he did the rack pools, he was like, okay, I can do this. Let's get a better range of motion of greater, better range of moment.

Um, let's do a block pool. And once, like whenever he got out of that fear, he started rack pools, block pools. And right now he's deadlifting like from the floor normal. Um, so yeah, I've had, I've had some of them. Um, but as you say, if the person doesn't want to deadlift, I don't know why I would put them on the deadlift, but if they want to deadlift, I say just find, find whatever works for them and start from there. You don't have to go from 0 to 100 and deadlift and have a perfect deadlift in just one session. Yeah. And I think that's the, the, the, the magic of having some tools in your tool belt and being able to regress people.

Um, I used to start people on hip barbell hip thrusters quite a bit. Um, and even if I don't feel comfortable with them taking a deadlift to, uh, towards failure for higher weight, like I'll smoke them on, on a hip thruster. A hip thruster. Um, but also too, like on that, and this is just my opinion is that I, I know there's a, there's a push to like, it's like, Hey, if you don't deadlift, like why live type of thing? You know, it's like, it's, I honestly don't think everybody needs to deadlift to feel good, but there's a push to see. It seems like, you know, I remember seeing an Instagram post where like, I think an orthopedic clinic said that deadlifting will hurt your back.

And everyone got up in arms about the damn thing. You know, it's like, um, I think the exercise has to be appropriate for the person and their goal in mind. And I don't think most, I don't think a lot of people need to deadlift really too much and they certainly don't need a barbell and they don't need to go from the floor either. Yeah. I think people, I mean, the, the, the deadlift is great. It's one of the best exercises, but I also think it's overrated. Like, as you say, you know, like I know a lot of people that are pain free and they've never had low back pain and they don't deadlift at all.

Right. Yeah. And you think about all the people who have lived to like a hundred or so, like they do a lot of things in moderation and they just probably just walk every day. Exactly. So walking is also underrated. Yeah, it is, it is underrated. But yeah, that's, um, yeah, I think when you go into like the loading camp, it's just funny, like the pendulum swings both ways and you know, like I think there's a time of need for your manual therapies and your, and your deadlifting and your heavy loading. But it's like, I think, I think we're going to see the pendulum again, swing back to, you know, why are we loading, why are we loading these people so much and how strong is too strong, you know, or how much, uh, where does the risk reward kind of fall apart, you know, on these people?

And just, I think, I don't know, my, my opinion is that people just, they've lost, a lot of people have lost their passion for just general movement variability exercises, like play sport, like throwing baseballs and like, like chasing a kid or dog or a cat or whatever. And then they start moving towards like, okay, my thing is lifting a weight or running. And if that's their passion, that's cool. But if it's not their passion, that's not the end goal. That's a step towards the angle of chasing kids, you know. And there's legit research that says that just general movement and general exercises works as good as specific, whatever that means, exercises.

So what I just say is that people should find what they enjoy doing and just do it more. Yeah. Chances are you're going to get better because if you don't like deadlifting and your doctor gets you deadlifting, you're not going to get better. Yeah. But if you, if he finds some movement that you enjoy, just walking your dog or whatever, you're going to get better. Well, I wonder how then with, um, I haven't done this quite yet, but I was going to start doing a little bit more aggressively is I was going to ask people if they had a free moment, if they had a free day, what would they do? You know, if they say, I would sit and read a book and say like, no, what is the activity?

If there was an activity, like remember back to your childhood. Yeah. What would you do? And I think a lot of people can't answer that. So Raul, what would you do if you had a free day and, and, uh, you had to be active? What would you do? I would definitely go to the baseball park and just play catch, hit some balls. Yeah. That's good. How about you? I'd, I'd play baseball, but it's really challenging to find 18 people at one time. And so I've even struggled to find other things. And so I bought a volleyball the other day and started hitting around on myself. That's nice. Did you used to play baseball earlier?

Yeah. So I still, I still play on, uh, so we, we did, uh, so there's a, there's a yearly league that I do. It's summertime league. So it's through the summer and into the fall, we just finished, um, there's a winter league coming though. And, but we did actually, right after the season ended, uh, I still want to play some. And so a couple of my teammates did too. And so we played over the line and that was fine. It's nice. Yeah. So, yeah, I think picking, I think kind of finding their, I think people's end goal or the reason why they want to feel better if it's, if it's like a, a lifting based thing that don't have a passion for, or an endurance based thing they don't have a passion for.

I'm going to, I'm going to start asking them kind of that question. Cause I really, I'm, I actually, one day when I was, uh, I did a free Sunday, I didn't have anything to do. It didn't have any podcasts. It didn't have an, it didn't have anything. And so I thought I can play baseball. I'm like, Hmm, I can't get 18 people. And so I'm like, well, maybe I want to lift. I'm like, well, that'd take about an hour and I don't really want to. I don't want to do that. If I can go run, it's hot. I really don't want to do that. And so I'm like, what am I going to do? You know? And so I suffer from the same kind of thing.

I think if you ask that question to your patients, it'll give you a better guide to what, to what do you want them to get moving or to get doing? And it'll give you a better idea of what they actually enjoy doing. Yeah. And you'll, you'll get a, and you'll probably get better patient compliance, I'm guessing if you can. Definitely. Yeah. So as we start to wrap up here, I see we're getting into about 50 minutes here. What would you like to, is there anything you'd like to cover again that we, that we talked about? Are there any questions you want to ask me or even side topics, business topics, anything you'd like?

So what would, what would be your top business advice to a student getting right out of school? Well, before you get out of school, I think you should learn some business aspects. I mean, probably in term, if you're a quarter system, probably in term 10, you should, you should start reading some business books. Not like accounting and stuff, but it's like, you know, how to, how to acquire new patients, how to just meet people. And so I think if, if I were to do it over again, then I would probably be a little bit more active with just side groups, running groups, track groups. At that time I was enjoying that.

But I'd probably just join a softball league or something and just get to know people that were not the people that you went to school with. So, yeah. So what kind of, like, for example, if someone says, how can I get, because a problem with chiro school is that they prepare you to be a good chiropractor, but when it comes to the business side, it's kind of like weak. And I've seen a lot of people that they graduate and they're good doctors and they say, oh, because I'm good, patients will come through my door. But real life, that doesn't happen. So how do you actually get patients to your door?

What, what was your, just that joining local groups or? Well, I think, I think you have to develop a relationship somehow. Like it doesn't matter where you like knitting or if you like playing softball or if you like reading books or whatever, right? There has to be a group of people that is kind of like, I guess, your beta test group in this case. And so if you're in school and you really do like going to read books, go to a book club, you know? And so like, those are people that are going to be like, they just trust you. Inherently as a human. And so at some point they're going to ask you, hey, I got this foot problem.

What's in the inner arch of my foot when I stand up at first thing in the morning? By the way, my back hurts too. Well, okay. What do you, what do you think it is, Raul? And, and you're like, well, you have an opportunity there. Yeah. So it's, and you can choose at this point to, to figure out what your communication style is going to be. It's like, you can be the over educator or you can say, oh, it's interesting. Like, you know, like I can, why don't we try this? You know, or, hey, once you come in my office, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll show you some things that you can do on your own. And, and so you'll, you'll figure out what is working dominantly with getting people to enter your office and what is not working.

And I tend to think if you get into a heated argument about what's right and what's wrong or how their past guy sucks or whatever, like, is probably not a good way. And so just kind of, you're just leading them and it's like, they trust you already. So just capitalize on that trust. So now that you say that, what made you start doing all of the pre-reformance video? Because right now you're doing a lot and you're doing great with the pre-reformance that that's kind of like your niche right now. So what made you choose that topic specifically with all of the topics that you could have chosen? That's a good question.

So no one should do this, just me. So it, uh, number one is, is if you, if you go into like some business related stuff, let's just say if you're looking on online at Google searches and, um, competition for certain keywords, when you start looking up low back pain or disc herniation, you're going to see that say that Amazon or sorry, in Google, your cost per click is going to be like $8 a click or something like that. And so, um, those cases are actually there. There'd be nice cases to have. Um, however, I'm not willing to pay that much. The competition's too high. So another, we can, we can go down the river a little bit.

And so we might then look at, um, we might look at pure form of syndrome. You might look at a hip impingement. You might look at, uh, T, uh, TFL tightness. You might look at IT band tightness based upon your population, you know, and let's just say if you have somebody who's like, say you're going to target lifters with, uh, with IT band syndrome, we kind of know lifters don't have the mileage, the merit IT band syndrome. You kind of know what it is. And it's kind of the same thing as low back pain or, or a lot of it. And so you can speak directly to that audience in a, in a very unique way that will resonate with their problems.

Hey, do you bend over it? Like with your, with your standard deadlifting from the floor, do you actually have thigh numbness that happens that you think is IT band? Cool. We can try this instead, you know? And so you can build a, build trust with that audience that way. I personally like working with like 35 to 40 year old female runners that tend to drive their symptoms with rotation and extension. And so most of the time, um, for those I can, I can follow down the, the segmental discogenic route, but most of the time you just get them into a goblet squat position or a door jam squat position or do a neurodynamic opener and their symptoms go away.

And I've had quite a few people where they're like, I've done so much tissue work and this keeps coming back. And then, so we just do an opener and we spend about, they spend about three, four days doing it at home and they're like, holy shit. They get better. Right. And so they're very easy to work with. And also too, for those running populations, most of them don't have education or experience with lifting. And so there's a good upsell on that for me because I need to get some load on them so they can do what they want to do. That's nice. But your CrossFitters, they already experienced load.

Yeah, that's right. And so that's why I don't target those markets. That's nice. That's a good niche you have right now. So what do you do whenever you feel out of content? Like whenever you feel out of gas on Instagram posts or podcasting, where do you find the new topics or motivation to take outside the box? For Instagram, those are more of like, I try to make things simpler. And although I can say, here's the one exercise for it to activate the glutes to get the piriformis to deload or whatever terminology I want to use that day. By the way, I can use different terminology to do the same similar video and you just scatter them out.

Piriformis tightness in one, say piriformis ache in another or leg numbness in the other. And so with the glute exercise, I might start with a simple clamshell or then I might go into a downside clamshell and then I might go into a glute band. Then I might do a hip thruster. Then I might do a single leg deadlift. Then I might do an isometric single leg deadlift. Then I might do an actual deadlift from a block. Maybe I happen to do some type of curtsy squat. And so there's so many different ways to push it. And now I can add different weights, different loads, different leverage, different pacing, different time under tension.

So there's lots of other variables that I think are very common for us to already know, but we can't assume our target market knows that. But those, I fully know that probably the conversation I have on Instagram, it's very bland. And I already got shit from like one of my friends. He's like, that's a very general way to explain nerve tension, bro. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, right. I'm not educating you, guy. You know, like I'm educating other people who are willing to come in. People who have no idea what's happening with them. Yeah. And it's best to meet them kind of where they're at. With the podcast, though, I don't know, I run out of content all the time.

That's why I'm interviewing you. It's difficult. It is hard. I know the feedback I've gotten is that more people want case studies. And so I'm going to do more case studies and just talk kind of about certain types of cases or people that I see that are interesting throughout the month. Yeah, that would be nice. And just explain why you're doing this and not that. I think that would get a lot of listeners, especially students and doctors. That's what I'll probably go towards because the interviews are nice. I learn a lot from them. But as I'm starting to find, as I explain, like I did a couple workshops, as I'm starting to explain how I would operate and how to formulate it down into like a really easy to follow, not step by step because nothing should be step by step, but a general concept.

I'm learning as I start to do those that it's challenging to organize my thoughts. So it's helping me out. Yeah. Makes sense. Good questions. What are you going to put on Instagram? I'm curious now. How are you going to market? Are you going to put things on Instagram? Are you going to do videos? Are you going to put down groups? I started a video page with a colleague of mine, the only because right now we have like maybe 800, 900 students at Palmer. And there's just two people that think like I do. Once you're on him, you know him and the others, Brandon Parker. So we I had clients on my own that I didn't have the time.

So we just joined. So we're doing the online coaching, but we're also doing like simple stuff that you could do for, for example, your midback tightness. You don't actually need an adjustment. You can get rid of it on your own by doing this and that. So we started that and it's been growing better than we expected, because I think that if you wait till you're out of school to market yourself, you're going to be way behind. But if people actually see your content and see that, you know, your stuff, you're going to be 10 steps ahead of everyone. So, yeah, we started doing that. Nice videos, two or three videos.

Nice. I know that I'm probably a sticking point for a lot of students might be that they like because technically not doctors, you can't suggest type of thing, you know, but it's it as I've come to learn, like no one cares what your name is. No one cares what you do. No one cares what your profession is. They just want to know that they're going to feel better. And so I might do an exercise, which is based upon shoulder pain with overhead lifting. And here's a modification we can do. I don't need to say my name. It might be in the notes later. Exactly. But I'm sure a lot of people might think, well, how's a person supposed to find me later?

It's like, well, if you do like 30 touch point, like Grant does, they're going to trust you, know your face, and they're going to investigate your name. So I don't think those are as important as we lay out. But if you had a credential to fall back on, like strength conditioning, I mean, like you're technically training. So non-diagnosing training, just kind of movement based stuff. I think it's a good route to go. Yeah. Cool. It's been good so far. Good. Good job. That's hard to do. Yeah. It is hard. It's time consuming, but it's worth it. Yeah. So how would you like to finish off? We're about done here.

How can everyone reach you? Do you have any questions? What? How can everyone reach you? I couldn't understand. How can everybody reach you? Oh, you can find me on Instagram, Raul X. Mayer, A-X-T-M-A-Y-E-R. Nice. No website yet? You can follow my exercise page, which is strength.rehab, and that's basically it. Strength.rehab? Yep. That's Instagram too, or is that? Instagram, yeah. Okay, cool. Both are Instagram pages. Right on. Oh, so I guess I should ask you, I forgot we got so stuck in conversation. So the reason I'm doing the student interviews is because I need to figure out what I need to do better on the show, like we talked about earlier.

What would you like to see more of on the podcast and then also less of? More of? You mentioned the study cases. That would be really helpful because we don't get enough of that in school, and we could definitely hear a doctor who's been in practice ten or more years addressing a case study and just, as I said earlier, saying why you chose to do this exercise or this movement rather than the other stuff. That would be really helpful, but right now your podcast has been really helpful for me as well as for other students because some people at my school, they know I listen to a lot of podcasts, and they're always asking me, like, hey, what do you recommend me?

I always recommend yours and maybe two more. So I think you're doing a great job with the content you're putting on. Maybe you don't like the interviews as much, but I think students like hearing students. I think that might be helpful when it comes to students, but we know that not only students hear your podcast, there's also doctors and other people. I think that would be it, but just keep on putting great content consistently, and you'll be more than fine. Cool. That's good feedback. Maybe then if students hear this, then they will help you start the R2P club at your school. I hope so. So yeah, everyone reach out to them on Instagram, and then you can start that R2P club.

It's a hard thing to start. Yeah. Well, cool. Thanks so much for being on. Thank you for your time. Raul, thanks so much for being on. That was great. It's good meeting you. Good interview, by the way. You're a good back-and-forth interviewer. I noticed that not a lot of people are really good with playing volley, and I think as we mentioned afterwards, I think people really tend to like a little bit more of the human aspect of a back-and-forth conversation versus one-way interview. And so thanks. You may actually be in my job a lot easier. So everybody, again, if you're looking to reach out to Raul, especially to start that R2P club over there, that'd be amazing.

Let me find his Instagram here. And so we have, it's R-A-U-L-A-X-T-M-A-Y-E-R. So that's on Instagram. So check him out. Nice guy, as you can tell, and he's willing to learn from other people. So lastly, before we do close up, again, you heard the sponsorship is Pro Chiro Online CE. That is a company that me, Ben Ramos, and Phillip Snell started to address a problem that's pretty prevalent within our profession. I don't know how PT profession is right now, but this is mainly for DCs currently, is online CEs. And if you have not been in practice that long, and you have not had to experience CEs yet, online CEs are generally like they're acceptable in many states as part of your curriculum.

So you don't have to leave your office. You get to learn online. However, there's not a lot of great updated information, and we've addressed that. So we have Greg Lehman on one. We have Phillip Snell on one. We have Cody DMACC as well. And even into Module 2, which the estimated date of delivery is going to be towards the end of 2019. That's upper extremity-based conditions. We have Ben Ramos on there, who is amazing. If you have not experienced him yet, he's a wealth of knowledge. Cody DMACC returns on to it as well for strength conditioning for upper extremity and cervical cases. And we actually have Guido Van Ryssegem again, as well as Michael Shacklock.

So we went straight to the sources on a lot of these types of problems or curriculum, so you guys can learn directly from those sources. As I mentioned earlier, we're going to change the listenership name. I'm no longer going to exit the podcast with Lead People About How You Found Them, and if you're dating a date of the English Scout, we're going to go with Be Part of the Movement. So you listeners are called The Movement. I'm proud to have you as The Movement, because we are The Movement Movement. So thank you for being part of The Movement. Share this with a friend, another DC or PT who needs to hear this information.

And I'll talk to you guys next week.