Using a five-step rehab framework for knee, groin and ankle pain

Just had him do a couple of reps on the bar and I was like, do, do what you normally do. So he did like a set of threes like, yeah, it's, it's killing my forearm right now. I was like, okay, so let's practice this grip. And he busted out like 10, 20 reps and he was like, oh, I'm, I'm good. It was like absolutely nothing right now. I was like, you're listening to the restoring human movement podcast where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone, I'm Sebastian Gonzales, your host for the restoring human movement podcast.

Thanks for joining the movement movement. This is your first time. Welcome to the show. I've been doing this for quite a while now. It's been probably close to 105 episodes, 205 episodes. And so the whole point of this podcast is to improve our patient outcome and to improve our patients really. And just to get better, get better as clinicians and to really step outside our comfort zone and just understand maybe things that we can get better at. Our patients are only going to reap the reward and hopefully this information is clean enough, simple enough to where patients can really get some good information from it too.

So that's the goal of the podcast. And as you hear today, I'm going to interview someone. And this is one of the students from the webinar series that I put on is the five steps of patient care webinar series. We went through hip, shoulder, lumbar, cervical and cervical and lumbar referrals. And so it was a six part series. And this is Tyler Kane. Tyler Kane was one of the people who went through a live. We eventually recorded it, but he had so many good stories of things that where he was able to apply the principles and just the outline of what to try and when and, you know, maybe what modality to use and what exercise to try.

Or maybe this person needs to just chill it down for a couple of days and just an organization. The whole point of the workshop was to create some organization. I shared what I like to do, but really it's just down to what are we trying to do? What's the goal of the person's problem that day? What do we need to do to reduce that person's problem? So Tyler was one of the, he was willing to come through and speak about some of the stories and his experience in there. I'm in for some interesting feedback as well. I'm not going to plan on doing it again, but I will patch things together to make it so it's a more comprehensive program.

It's already recorded and it's available on the P2 Sports Care website if you're looking for it. So without further ado, we'll get into the personal story, a little bit about myself. You know what? Actually, I think we'll skip that today. We're going to skip that because I'm sure I'm going to get a little nutty in there and just tell the stories anyway. So we'll get it. We'll get into the interview and usually I'll have a personal story, but I'm going to skip that today. Lucky you. So Tyler, let's see what Tyler has to say and let's see. So before we get into the show, I am going to skip the story.

So normally before we get into the show, we get into a personal story. I like to share a little bit about myself personally so that you guys can like me as a host and hopefully follow the progression of the podcast and can at least tolerate me. But I'm fresh out of ideas today, so I'm just going to bypass it. Lucky you. If you want to hear a little bit more personal stories about me, there's about 200 stories I've shared prior. So I'm just going to skip that, give myself and you some relief today. We'll get right into the interview with Tyler. What's up, man? Not much. How about yourself? Not much.

I've been binge recording podcasts today. Yeah, I got to interview a guy that hosts another one. It's the, you know, Kyle Hunt? I don't know. Absolute Strength Podcast. So we did something earlier. His setup and his mic were good. And yeah, just, it's just cool to talk to people, you know, and just chill. Yeah. Yeah, that's my day. You look like you just came from clinic. Yeah. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. So, um, I thought I would, I just, I already started the recording, but, um, at any point here, if you need to say, Hey, I don't want to say that, just, just, that's fine. We can cut it later.

Most people don't end up cutting things. They just kind of roll with it and roll. Yeah. Okay. You say less offensive things than you think. But, uh, but I wanted to have you on to, to, to see your experiences with using and giving me feedback about, uh, uh, teaching, teaching that, uh, the workshop that we did, the five steps of patient care. And, um, funny, like when we did that recap the other day, um, I was thinking about the one that you showed with the hand, the, the, what'd you call it? The screw one. Yeah. The screwing. Yeah. I was about to use that with someone, but instead I, I chose Mary Lou's, uh, halo.

And it's funny. We had this net guy and, uh, it was, it helped like the, the first day it helped, but he came back the next time and it was not better. And, um, so we did first date again, it was okay. And then we did halos and he's like, Holy shit. I feels like I haven't, like he's had it for like five years and he's like, I haven't, I don't, don't feel a thing. Right. I'll try that screw one next time. I love doing the halos too. Halos are ever since I saw those in DMACC, I've been using those a lot. Yeah. I had to rewatch that again. Actually. I realized that was a handle wrong after, after boards next week, that's going to be, I'm rewatching all of it, all the DMACC stuff.

Oh yeah. Good. You and me both. Um, so once you introduce yourself, let everyone know who you are. Um, what's your, uh, why'd you become a chiropractor too? Oh, okay. Um, so my name's Tyler Kay. I am a, uh, Logan university student, uh, trimester nine. I graduate in December. Um, so my undergrad, I went for a physical therapist assistant and, uh, uh, uh, uh, and epidemiology public health. And as I was doing my rotations for PTA, I was in a clinic rotation in Ohio, um, um, with a chiro and a PT in the same building. And so NPT school, we learned, we learned the downs of chiropractic and how not trustworthy and then pretty much like the slopes of it.

So, so I, I went in there and I was like, nope, no chiropractic. That's not, not good. And the chiropractor was like, yeah, well, I figured that's, that's how it was. So he invited me over to his side of the office and I was like, oh, this is, this is what I want to do. This is, so that's how I got into chiropractic. That's, that's funny that you, um, I don't remember hearing in our school, like the, like the bad things of other professions. You just, it was like just talking about how to co-manage with them, you know, we were always taught that we were the best for PT. So yeah, that's funny. Um, I'm just curious, what did the chiropractor do differently than the PT that made you want to do that then?

So it was like, it was a mixed thing. So like chiropractic, he, he kind of reminded me of like how you kind of talk about yourselves. Like you started out with him as ART soft tissue guy and you kind of like moved over into a more active and that's kind of what he was doing. He was doing a lot of ART, a lot of hands-on stuff. And he was just so knowledgeable about just everything. And I was like, oh, that, I mean, that he's so smart. Like I want to be like that. And he pretty much just inspired me. And it's funny because he told me, he was like, don't go to chiro school, go to PT school. Like you'll have a better job outcomes, like do this.

And he was like, you, you went against my advice, man. That's funny. Yeah. So like PT, I asked him, I mean, PTA is fun. I love being PTA. That's how you, you get to work with all the patients and do all the fun. Um, but I wanted to be more, more than a PTA. I wanted to be my own boss pretty much and go to grad school. Yeah. Being your own boss is, uh, it's good and bad. And I think you're going to find that out pretty soon here. Yeah. Like the, the stats of like small business success is just horrific. Yeah. And especially after the whole, uh, the COVID incident, it's like, it's like the year of the small business owner just getting destroyed like one way after another, you know?

Um, so it's a, it's a whole different experience. So, but, but it's fun. You get to, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Yeah. I don't know. I don't plan on owning my own office at least right away. I do plan on doing like an associate or IC somewhere. Why, why is that you think? I don't have the balls pretty much what it comes down to. At least you can admit it. Yeah. It's usually like people get a partner because they're like, ah, yeah, just don't want to spend all that money. Yeah. That too. So I, like, I rather buy in to an office and do like a part owner and run it with someone instead of just starting from scratch on my own.

Yeah. I think I would be prepared to that with, um, I know that we, we run into this at my office is that I, I put down a lot of, uh, um, I put down a lot of, a lot of seeds of advertising over the years, you know, not just not paid advertising necessarily, but you know, YouTube videos and like just articles, random things. And eventually they grow into like, Hey, somebody came from that, you know, but the, the evil part is that like the established doctor has probably done that. And then when you get a phone call and it's like, Hey, can I see Dr. Jones? And like, damn it's like, why can't, why can't I have this person?

You know, like, right. Right. But that I'm sure that might come, but I don't think all the patients care that much. They just want to make sure that you're competent, you know? Yeah. Get me out of pain. Yeah. So tell me some stories. Cause I think you have good, uh, you had a little list of things there, I think, but also you have, you have stories of how I like your, I like your mental process of how you're using the five steps that we went through. Um, and, and I even mentioned to say, I told, I told Allie, I'm like, I think Tyler's going to probably know more than I will pretty soon here. So, um, I think, I think you're going to take, take it to a next level.

That's a, that's a lot to, I hope so. I'm sure you, I'm sure you will pressure on me. Yeah. Well, you're going, how old are you? 20. I'm turning 27 this year. Yeah. You got a lot of time to, to, to make more progress. Uh, I guess I should establish first case everyone hadn't heard the other podcast. Um, uh, we went, we went through a workshop. Uh, uh, Tyler was part of that flagship group that went through. So, um, you guys made it possible to actually, like, since you, since you paid to be part of it, I was like, Oh, I better create it then. And so, um, the five steps was number one is, um, history taking, uh, collect basic collection of data points and, uh, uh, uh, uh, chicken shit bingo, basically just gathering all your information, get your working diagnosis.

You know, step two, first aid, step three is corrective exercise or basic support systems, patterning, things of that nature. Step four was loading your Dan John ism step five was, uh, basically returned to playfulness movement variability. And so we're just packaging in like how to organize what treatments you might want to use and where you would put them so you can progress the person out of your care, um, and into real life again. So, uh, yeah, you had a, you had a good, it seemed like you had a good understanding of how to use those, use those steps. So, um, do you have any cases, do you have any cases that we didn't talk about yet?

That we didn't talk about? No, um, not, not really. No, not any like ones that are worth, worth sharing. Okay. Well, so then how about this? And I know you have a list of things that we were, you had a list of things we were going to discuss that you want to discuss anyways, right? I, yeah, that, and I also, I, my, uh, runner girl came in today. Oh, really? This is that knee one you said, right? Yep. So now she's up to over three miles without pain. Nice. So can you, can you refresh everyone on that one? That, cause we talked about it in the, there was a podcast. We talked, there was a recap one that came before this one.

Um, but can you refresh the history on this one? Yeah. So I would say, um, mid thirties, um, female. She is, she had two kids. She got out of regular fitness training and she wanted to get back into running. Uh, she doesn't like to run outdoors. She likes to do more treadmill treadmill work. And she wasn't able to run more than like five minutes without having really bad, uh, knee pain. That was pretty much like around the whole joint, lateral, medial, whatever, no swelling, nothing like that. Um, after I did like my little mini exam with it, just doing some squat patterns and stuff like that, just noticed that she was shifting over to the right side.

So her left knee is the bad knee, um, shifting over to the right side a little bit more. So what I did is just correct that. I did like a single leg deadlift, opening the hips towards that knee and retested squat and she had no pain. So it was just super easy like that. So I was like, cool, let's just bust out some squats then see how long it takes for you to get some pain again. And we got up to like 10, 15, 20. And she was like, Nope. I mean, a little bit of tenderness, but it's like a one out of 10, she said. So I was like, all right, so do that single leg loading before running. And she got up to a mile before she got pain.

And then I just kept telling her to keep doing that warmup, keep doing the exercise. Uh, practicing her squats. And, um, then she eventually got up to one and a half miles, two miles, two and a half. Now she's up to three miles without pain. Nice. And this was over the course of how many, how many weeks did you have her or, uh, since I started treating her for this knee, I think it was less than four weeks, I would say three weeks, three and a half weeks. I saw her about four times, four or five times. And so I, I think the, uh, the, the question that I have, I might've asked it. And the other one was someone comes in with a knee problem and you, what, what mental process do you go through to make it okay to load the knee?

If they're shifting a weight away from the knee, why would you not just deem that? Like, Hey, she heard her knee. We're going to allow her to shift weight off it. And we're just going to do local stabilization now. You know, I actually like notice this about myself when I'm like treating with people and like using a five-step process. It's like, for some reason, I like to start with Dan John, his stuff, like Dan John, and then like work back. So like I see her squat, I do a bunch of squats. I was like, okay, this issue is pretty consistent. So let's try and fix this one issue. And then I'll just go back up to a Dan John and then do some squats or do a deadlift or whatever.

And then I, I mean, throughout the whole thing, I was like, is this, if anything's bothering you too much, we can scale it back. But she just, she had no issues with this. So I just kept rolling with it. Nice. So, so you started at, uh, you still, did you load her in, in the assessment or you just have her just body weight? Uh, just a body weight squat. Okay. So you figured, took her through basic movement patterns and then, uh, you scaled down. See, you kept trying to see if you can reduce it with some type of means like a corrective or a, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. And then you work back up and load it.

Yep. And, uh, and then you're working diagnosis is based upon what you, what the, uh, based upon what worked. Does that sound right? Yeah, pretty much. Okay. So what's her diagnosis in that one? I know that we, um, so pretty much it's just, I think it's, um, after watching her working with her hips and like squatting and stuff like that, she just had no hip mobility really what it came down to. So just did a bunch of those single leg deadlifts and then just getting that hip to move more. So I think that's really what her main issue was. It might've been something else, but yeah, I wasn't, I really don't get too fixated on like a diagnosis.

Yeah. The, it's funny. I was, I was talking to Dawne Costantino about this the other day. I don't, I, you can stop me if I've already said this, like, cause it was fresh in my mind the last week or so is that, um, we had a couple of cases that they would, uh, you know, they're like, Hey, you have a, you know, meniscal tear, you know, but that's basically what they have. But then they, they go fish around and they go ask for another opinion because we word it so softly kind of like, Oh, you're just, your hip was not moving. And so now we're just like, you have a meal meniscus tear and just shut up and then just, but don't worry, we'll handle that for you.

Like, Hey, look, we're going to get through a lot of it today. Um, just do what we say for 12 weeks and I think you'll be fine. Yeah. Um, but I totally get the don't like, I don't know. Like I, cause I don't really bother with diagnosis either. I mean, I diagnosed them, but I just don't really care. Cause you just like packaging them in some type of code, you know? Yeah. She, that's funny. Cause like when I'm in my preceptor, people are like, well, what, what's wrong with me? Why, why does it do that? She's like, I don't know, but we got you out of pain. We fixed it and you're having no issue.

So who, who really cares? I know. Well, people, you know, people go to things like, uh, like you don't, you don't get a real diagnosis from massage therapists. You don't get a real diet. I mean, like, but you know, they say, Oh, your hip flexor is tight. It's not, it's not a diagnosis. It's an observation. Yeah. But they're okay with that, you know? Right. Yeah. Because they have some type of an answer. Yeah. They, they have a, a, a, a structure to blame. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I like it. So you took her through a hip dominant approach to load into the hip and then you repattern the squat and then loaded the squat and then you just told her to go run.

Just let it happen. Yep. Okay. I did about 20 squats. She had no pain or issues like that. Um, did you have to cue the squat at all or just let it happen? I didn't really cue that much. No, I just kind of let it happen. And then after I did the single leg, uh, deadlift, she, her knee stopped caving in. She stopped shifting. And that's really all I wanted to do was to fix that part. Nice. I had a girl this morning. Um, she was a, she was a tele one. And so, uh, she had, she'd done really well over the week. She was a hip one groin pain and she'd had it for a long time. And she, uh, over the course of the week, things went well.

I, I progressed her to a, a goblet squat with high tension last time. And then, so she did something a couple of days ago, which kind of pinged it and it was there again. And so I was going to progress her through a deep, the deep range of a goblet squat movement, not the exercise today. And then go into a deadlift and single leg stance, uh, or sorry, uh, SLDL and things like that. And, uh, it just kept pinging, like it just kept pinging her through the movements. So I kept having to scale it back and scale it back. Um, and she kept just recruiting. She's like, it feels like it's my hamstrings, you know, like groin and hamstrings.

And so it was kind of troublesome to get them into shifting the load into the hip. So I had to scale her all the way back into a, a, a, a bridge. She didn't have a band or anything. I just threw a weight on, had her throw a weight on her belly. And I just, so she was on telehealth again. Um, so I just said, just keep going. Where do you feel it? And she said glutes. And so I just swiped screens and I started doing other things, you know, just, just listening to her. But it started, when she started grunting, finally, I was like, okay, I swiped back. I'm like, okay, good, good, good, good, good.

Just keep going, you know, but it, but it took like two minutes, but we went into the goblet squat movement again after that. And so she was like, oh, it's way better, you know, but it's sometimes it's hard to find. Um, I always feel like I'm kind of swimming upstream sometimes when I'm trying to find one that works and, and, uh, you find like something like that can be like, uh, pretensioning type thing. Like creating, uh, yeah. So creating some, like creating some glute tone before doing the movement. Right. Yeah, I believe so. I think it's, I think we're just shifting load around a little bit.

Um, I remember I'm talking to Cody about this. Are we really, are we doing that? Are we really tricking the nervous system, uh, input and just changing the perception of pain? That's a whole different story. So, um, I mean, I, I think it's easy to think it in mechanical terms. So I'd say, yeah. Um, and it works, I'm sure it works for multiple reasons, but it worked for her, you know? Yeah. So are you going to scale her back to a goblet? I think, oh, I, I, I figured out what pinged her and on a couple of days ago. So I, I took the trigger away a little bit, or I was going to modify it. And then, um, I didn't want to progress down the plan that I, I, I wanted to today.

Um, I just went with where she was at and I got her back into that deep goblet position because I feel like, like a posterior tilt in that deep goblet position, um, not even moving anywhere, just breathing, just breathe into the thighs, get some IEP, you know, usually makes them feel better. And so I wanted her to be able to find that position rather than do like a passive frog pose or something like that. So I wanted to be in that a little bit more because if I, I found that people with groin stuff, when you're in that, I guess, quote, anterior tilt, they, it's hard, like get them into, to get them into a hip hinge, a bilateral hip hinge.

Sometimes they just, they hollow out, you know, in the belly, they anterior tilt some more and it just, it just, I feel like the squat is easier. It's easier to address them again. And then I just start moving towards a hinge. Okay. That's probably all I'll do with her, but, but who knows what she looks like next week, you know? Right. Um, what do you, what questions did you have? What do you, what do you want to go through today? I think that's a good discussion points. Uh, so I already asked you a few of them from our, uh, review. Um, some other ones I had was, so say with like, if an athlete comes in to you and you put them all through everything and they're at a step five process, I want to know for like their return to sport, do you use like a certain, certain type of, um, certain set of sources that you use to train them for a sport specific, or do you just send them back to the team?

Trainer. I'll, I'll, I'll send them. I'll usually, I think it depends on the trainer. If the trainer is really good with, you know, suggestions of, you know, working with the, uh, strength conditioning coach and the coach and yeah, just, uh, you know, let them have, let them go that way. Cause we're not, or I'm not like, I'm not in that world. I'm like the extra, you know? And so, but I have had some people that they've gone to like, say they keep re-triggering their issue in sport, like say soccer, you know? And so like, I'll see them in office and I'll get it under control. But then once they go to a certain point in soccer, then it's an, it's an issue, you know?

And, um, what I kind of teach in here is like, I say, look, I'm going to get you through like the, like the meat and potatoes, but I'm not going to go over, you know, multi-directional, you know, like lateral hops, plyos, power develop. I'm not going to do any of that. And so, um, I used to just tell them this at some point you're going to, you're going to exhaust my knowledge and, um, you can keep doing what I have you do, but it's better if you go to someone who specializes in what you're talking about. And I think the strength conditioning coach is a better call at that point. Um, I, I'm just not that creative, honestly, you know, so I I'm familiar with it, but I'm not, I'm not extremely good at it.

So I'll easily offload them that way. How do you give them any, uh, preventative injury exercises? Yeah, I'll kind of, I'll kind of give them like the things that you like that you did with this girl. It's like, okay, this, this warmup works for you, you know, and you might not have to do it forever, but currently this is working for you. You know, we just need a little bit of a bandaid. Um, but I like it's, I think it's, it's hard to like, I'm not going to say like the suggestion of like the Dan John is, is what works for everybody or what everybody needs, you know, but based upon what worked for them to make them feel better, something's, something's working, you know?

And I, so I just tell them, look, if you want to continue down that same process and, uh, say, I don't know the person that you're working with and you don't know them, but you question them and you ask them, what are we going to do? You should probably have a push pull carry squat hinge in there, you know, and then other stuff, you know, like you're going to have some plyo boxes you're going to have, you know, but if you go in and they say, we're going to do bicep curls, then I think we've got a problem, you know? So I just, I just educate them about ways to communicate, you know, what the expectations should be, how to select somebody who's going to be good for you.

So that's, that's probably, I think that's the best I can do. I don't think I can go much further than that. So, well, yeah. What would you do? What do you, what do you, what do you think, uh, what do they teach you in school to, to re for the return to play and co-management like that? I don't think they do. Yeah. They don't do, do they do the concussion one or they used to do that? There's no, no. So I got, I actually took a concussion course through, um, Dr. Cameron Marshall, who was on here, on your show. Um, so I, I did the full course through him. Nice. Yeah. It was interesting when, uh, he basically said cardio is more advised.

Yeah. So there's so met, there's so many like myths that I didn't know about that. Yeah. It was, it was incredible. Like that course was amazing. So do you plan on managing concussions? I would like to, so I don't want that to be just like my soul. But I do want to work with athletes and an active, uh, uh, gen pop. So, I mean, even in like, uh, car accident cases, I mean, you're going to have whiplash and concussion protocols with them. So yeah, I mean, that's, I, I know that I'm competent in that, uh, but a lot of times I'm on a treadmill. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's in a student clinic out at Logan.

They were, every time someone came in, it was way too frequent for some reason. Like someone came in with a concussion and all like my classmates would be like, Hey, help. I was like, all right. So we had like their primary who was treating and the secondary who was like person sitting on a computer, taking your notes for you. So that would be secondary for all these people with whiplash and head injuries. So I got a lot of practice before coming out. Oh, good. Yeah. I don't think we saw, I don't remember seeing any in clinic and either now I just, actually the last person I had come in, it was like that.

I said, you know, there's these complete concussion clinics around. I think you should go. There's one in Long Beach, go that way. You know, they're incredible. Yeah. It's a hard, I don't know. I have a hard time with them just because it's not my, not my come from. And, you know, like I, I guess I like what I do. I try to fit people in that little box. Right. You know, but, but it's, it's, but it's enjoyable. I don't want to, I told you before, I don't want, I want to sleep well at night. I don't want to think about it. So, um, so do you feel then, how do you feel about ankles? Cause we didn't cover ankles in those courses, which are.

What's your, what's your thought on, how would you, how would you five-step that? Like a true ankle? A true ankle, not a pseudo ankle. I feel like, like a true ankle injury, like a sprain strain or something like that. Like the rehab doesn't really change much in my opinion. I mean, from what I've seen, I mean, I'm obviously not even a chiro yet. I haven't graduated, but like from the patients I've seen, I've taught in short foot and loading through the short foot with single leg and everything like that for stability. I've learned, um, so I mean, I guess my five-step process, my, I guess with like a first aid, I'm guessing people are going to like a brace for stability.

For an ankle turn. Right. I think so. That there's that horseshoe one too. That's a, that keeps that swelling out of the medial malleoli. Oh yeah. Yeah. That one's a nice one. I think just stuff like that will be like a first aid. And then as you get to like the correctives, you would be doing like a short foot. Um, I like to do what I learned from Brett Winchester, um, hands on the wall. And they're leaning into that foot as you're doing a mobe through the subtalar joint. Um, so I, I think that's, I've had great success with that with, uh, I actually just had an ankle patient the other day. That's what I did with that.

I would imagine that would be a, that'd be, that'd be a good first aid or wouldn't it? For like most non, non, non acute, I'm guessing like the, the triplanar subtalar mobe. His was like day before he came in. Oh really? And you mobbed that one up? Yep. Oh really? Yeah. I don't see, I don't see enough ankles. So I think it was more than, I think he did it on a Saturday and he came in on Monday. So he was like, I, I iced it and I had a cast on it for, for Sunday and I was like, cool, let's load this bad boy. And that's, I went right to it. And my previous, you're sitting in the doorway, just watching me like, what are you doing?

And after I did those mobes, he got up, he's like, he walked around, he had no wimp. And he was like, this is the best I've walked in the past two days. Yeah. Did, did you, did you give him a home mobe? Did you give him the wall one? Um, yeah, I, yeah. The, where he leaned into it. What do you do? Like you ever do like a, a milligan, a mulligan mobe with that too? Like a strap, you know, people use a strap down there, but that gets, that gets the mortise doesn't it? Or the, uh, the, I haven't used it for ankles. So, huh. The, uh, we had to play with one this week. It was a, uh, it was a planner fashion, a planner fashion case.

I'm not sold. I'm not really sold. It was one, but, um, either way. Like it was more of like, uh, like I have a little time with her. I know her pretty well. She's very coachable. I'm going to try a couple of things. And one of them just happened to be an ankle mobe just because I got time. It ain't going to hurt. If it's referred, it ain't going to hurt you. Let's just do it. So, um, but we did one where, um, you ever just drive in from the anterior aspect. And so they're kneeling and they're just kind of hitting three planes. That's what I learned. That's the one. That's yeah. That's what I'm talking about with, uh, a Winchester that I did.

Okay. Yeah. Well, you just do a flat on the ground, no slant board or anything. Yeah. Just flat. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's, uh, I, I, I feel like I would take, where'd you take them after that for the, uh, where'd you take them for, uh, do you like the, the scrunchie foot? You like the, the short arch one? Yep. Yeah. Um, you ever use the, the valet forward lean? The what? The, the valet, you heard of the valet forward lean? Uh, I don't think so. It's like a, it's like you're planking and then you lean forward like a stick of wood. And then you start to, the, the, the foot puckers. So you start doming a little bit.

Um, just, uh, they call the, the anterior fold envelope, I think is what, how far they can drift from forward. Oh, okay. Um, no, I never use that. You know, that's one, but I really, I really like doing a, a single leg deadlift, no weight. Just have them cross midline a lot at puckers it up pretty good. So like my little, the progression that I use, um, I teach. It sitting. And then, so like, that's where you get like the towel cue and whatever scrunch the towel. And then I go into a standing. So double leg standing and then single leg balance on it. And then I go to skaters. So like you single leg stance on your short foot and you kick your leg out to the side as you're doing like a lunge.

So you're bending. Are you, are you, are you weight bearing on the back foot at all? Or is it just like a, it's just a driver for movement? Driver. Yeah. So like, as you bring your foot out to the side, the non-weight bearing one, you're bending down on that short foot and then you launch yourself up. So it's like a plastic movement. I, I actually purchased, uh, uh, Thomas showed's, uh, uh, toe pro. You see that yet? Yeah. And so I, I purchased, I purchased one. We haven't used it a bunch. You'd probably use a little bit more, but, um, yeah, he's a, he's such a smart dude. I'm like, okay, he knows something.

I got to get a toe pro. So, so we got actually my, my, my girlfriend Allie uses it more with her dancers than I use it. Cause I don't get a bunch of foot ankle people, but, um, I don't, I don't know if I'd use it with an acute, like an acute, super cute case yet, you know? Um, but I actually have that dynamometer too. The, uh, the toe strength dynamometer. Okay. Yeah. The slide card. Yeah. So it was, it was interesting that people tested that. I'm pretty sure I was the highest one. I haven't had any foot and ankle problems either. Yeah. So, um, what would then, I'm going to, just going to test you in this then.

What would your, what's your five step on a headache? Oh, we didn't cover any headaches. Yeah. So as far as my step one, I mean, you're ruling out. I mean, obviously like your red flag questions, um, under clap. We'll have those thunderclaps and, you know, um, and then as far as like your data collection, your, um, exams, whatever I it's learned it in Cameron Marshall's, the VOMS exam, the vestibular ocular motor screening. So that just tests like a bunch of eye movements and then you move your head into different directions and then retest your six cardinal or the cardinal gaze. And then you're just pretty much deciding like which, which position is best for them.

And then which one is worse brings on their symptoms. Um, so that's pretty much what I'm doing with that. So, so that would be, so you get your, your six cardinal cardinal fields. Should you, you do straightforward, uh, look up, look up, uh, and then you'll test the, and then one will actually simulate a headache. So yeah, some of them will, yeah. The ones I've had a couple of times where it actually did. So like closing up like that and then looking to the right will cause like a headache. Huh? So then, so then would their ADLs that they have headaches associated with, would they coincide? Like say they're looking down texting, but then their computer screen or cat is over there, you know?

Exactly. Yeah. So like a lot of times, like in a student clinic, that's usually like what it was, was like looking down at them looking up. Would, uh, if they're sleeping and their heads in a certain position and they're having rapid eye movement at nighttime, would that also coincide? I don't know about that. Do the eyes have to be open or can it just be that movement? Every time I dream about dinosaurs, I have a headache. No, I'm, I wonder if there's like a trigger like that. I don't know. I mean like, cause headaches are supposed to go away with bed rest, right? There are a lot of them. Um, yeah, I don't know.

There was, there was one, uh, incident. I had a true migraine one time. Like I saw the streaks of light, like I was driving and I had like tunnel vision, couldn't see license plates in front of me anymore. I've never had anything like it before. Um, I had red wine the prior night and I still have not had red wine. Freaked me out enough, but I just came from the optomaster. So anyways, and so I just been checked out, um, not dilated though. And, uh, I called her and I was like, what's up? I think I'm freaking out. I think I'm in a migraine right now. What do I do? What'd you do to me? Um, and, uh, I said, what do you, what do you think I should do?

You know? And she said, uh, do you have a brown bag in your car? I said, yeah, I just drank a 40. I got this brown bag. And so she said, breathe into it. And, uh, she, she, uh, she just explained that there's a carbon dioxide feedback loop that if you're, so if you starve yourself out of oxygen, then it creates fires of dilation, I think it, and it somehow, and so miraculously after doing it for about a minute, all the streaks went away, tunnel vision went away. Like I was about to pull off the side of the freeway and everything. It hasn't happened since. So every time you drink red wine, you have to have a paper bag.

I drink it in a paper bag. No, I just don't. I don't like red wine that much to even try it again. Cause I'm pretty, I was freaking me out. Um, but it is a perfect fear avoidance of red wine, but she said you have, she's like, you got a narrow window. She's like, you know, you got to do it right now. You got to, well, you wait another minute. You're smoked. So it's going to get you. But there, there's my only first aid for a real migraine. I don't know if it works truly for everybody. I don't, I don't know. As far as first aids go, I, uh, I mean, you have your what sleep and dark rooms and yeah, a lot of dietary like logging.

And if I, if I have sodium, I get migraines. That's my trigger. You don't, you don't look, you can't lick those. Those, uh, saltine crackers. Every time, every, every time you, uh, you, you do chicken noodle soup, you go down. Yeah, really. Yeah. That's the, that's the trigger. Um, so, I mean, I just, that's for me personally. So, I mean, that's what I always ask people. Cause usually, I mean, obviously a lot of people coming in don't really think about stuff like that. Yeah. Well, I think it's a, I think when you, when you question them enough, you'll, you'll get to the bottom of some of those.

And they, I, I, I've, I've recently just told people, I'm going to ask you a question. They just seem very stupid, unrelated. Cause you end up like digging down deep of those. It's like, Hey, what kind of crackers do you like? It's like, dude, I'm here for headaches. Like why? You know, cause they might be in my relationship. You know, they give you that little trail. Why don't you just follow it? So, um, I, well, yapping could be a first aid. Yapping could be a first aid. Retention headaches. Yeah. That could be one. Um, I like the frogs pose, the down or the timeout, the, the timeout pose or frogs one frog breathing.

What was that? Yeah. I hate my job pose. Oh, this one. Yeah. I hate my job. Did you make that one up? Hey, yeah. Oh, you did. Did I say I hate my job pose? That was, that was in your, uh, webinar. Yeah. I forgot about that one. Yeah. Um, there was, there was one, the intern made up here that it was, it was kind of in a hate my job pose, but then he would do like a, like a, uh, thoracic extension, uh, exercise on the desk. Yeah. So, cause I was, I was kind of challenging him. I said, don't get my Brugers. Don't get my Brugers. Like, and he's like, Oh, okay. Thoracic spine mode on the desk. Okay.

That works. Do you not, not do Brugers? Uh, no, I. We do like, I'm sure Donald here, this podcast. It's like, we, we, we, so we've been doing a series of, of YouTube videos. And so, uh, we're calling ourselves the locally world famous chiropractors and you'll, and, uh, we're like, we're, we're like your local pastrami shop. It always says local world famous or world famous, but no one's heard of them. So it means it's locally world famous. And so if anyone bitches and complains and says, Hey, uh, you're not famous, I'll say, or world famous to say, you will, you know me now, don't you? And, uh, so anyways, we challenge each other with like, okay, so I have neck pain while sitting here, you know, like I sit at my desk, what do I do?

And we go through like three things or whatever. And so I'm like, okay, it's my turn. Oh, it's your turn. My turn. And she keeps doing Brugers. And I'm like, I don't want to show off fricking Brugers. You know, I do show them at times, but like very rare. I'm guilty of showing them too. Yeah. Rarely. And so I told her, like, I had to show them one day and I'm like, I can make this better. I'm like, put your shoulder blade tips into your back pocket. Make yourself say, I was like, did try to do tension with it? And she's like, you still, you still show to Brugers. I'm like, yeah, show to Brugers.

Or how you spin it. Yeah. Um, you know, the almost famous. Have you heard of, um, Permani brothers? No, locally world famous. It's well, they started in Pittsburgh and now they're kind of like broadening out of just like a little bit, but they call their sandwiches almost famous or almost world famous. So yeah, it's Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh style sandwiches. Almost famous. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. There's, I mean, who regulates world famous anyways? Yeah. It's just bullshit. There, there's a place down here that's, uh, um, they are, they said, it's called Bricks and it says world famous pastrami.

And every, every time I see that I do get something, I'm like, I'm going to get that pastrami. And I'm like, Oh, it's, it deems okay. Like I'll, you know, what you tell anyone else about it, they don't know. But so that's going to be our tagline. Locally world famous. Donnie made a jingle locally world famous. That's catchy. I like it. That's what we're trying to do. Just, just make it catch fires off. So have like a piano jingle in the back. Um, well, yeah. So she, she challenged me to do a beatbox at one time or she was a beatbox and I was trying to wrap it, but I kind of need an over, like I need the, the, I need the, the, the melody.

I can't make up my own melody. And I, apparently a beatboxing is not a melody for me to make stuff up. You can use your, uh, your boat with a subwoofer. Oh God. Like what's the stepbrothers movie when they make a rap video? Oh yeah. Yeah. We could just be like, uh, yeah. Do you ever see the lonely Island? I'm on a boat. Yeah. Or jizz in my pants. Yeah. I'm on a boat with my flippy floppies. So you're the next lonely Island. Yeah. That's, uh, their, their production value is pretty good. I'm pretty sure that I'll never beat that. They have, they have cameos like Justin Timberlake. So I'll never get there, but those ones are actually that people have liked those so far.

There's a lot of what, there's a lot of thumbs up. There's a lot of likes on those videos, except for, uh, I have a habit, like we'll do it on Wednesdays. And so I don't work Wednesdays. And so, um, I'll just come in and flip flops, kick them off. And then like I'm barefoot and I'm right. So I have a habit of like, almost like, you know, fake toe threading. Like I'll just kind of like, just kind of pop them and stuff. And, uh, people have already commented, stop playing with your feet. Gross. It's like, fine. Come in and see Dawne Costantino. Then I don't really care. You know, I'm toe threading. Go, go screw yourself.

So I'm in pain. I don't care. I just want to, I just want the self adjustment. So, um, what else do you want to cover today? I think, uh, yeah. So another one I wanted to ask. So when you were just bringing in or just using like the five step process, um, what kind of, I don't want to say issues or anything like that, but what kind of things did you notice? Like you had to make change to it, like your process. So, so the first, the first, like, I guess it's four step at the time, um, was when we were, when I was trying to, I was trying to train the interns about here's, here's the flow we would kind of want.

And, and, uh, that way, if I stepped out of the room, they kind of knew where the flow was and everything was, is, is basically, um, yeah, uh, it was, it was, uh, McKenzie's, I would say it was a flow back. We do McKenzie's or prone prop, make sure that's screened out. So let's just say it's flexion tolerant. We'll go that way. And so extension worked. Then we're going to McGill them. And then we're going to Dan John them deadlift, um, you know, carry single arm pole, you know, things like that. But where I found was that there was, so step three in, in, in our five step, which was the correctives was that the McGill stuff, it was good, but I really, there was enough people that were like, they were becoming like, there was just too much extent.

They were too robotic. They're too rigid, you know? And so the McGill big three did, did its job, you know, it stabilized, like it, like the disc settled, it was good. And, um, but I really feel that a need that add a little bit more flowy, a little dancey, a little, little DNSy, you know? And so for, for a while I was thinking about, you know, three A, three B, because at least in that, in that, in that fashion, because it was, I wanted to coach them out of rigidity too much. I didn't want them to think that was the way they're supposed to move forever. And so, um, I, I never really fully went that route, but.

Um, the, I, it just kind of, I just throw it in now a little bit, but I didn't establish it as that. I still have a problem with step three. As you can see, I broke it into correctives and buttressing and breaking. I don't know what we're like, I think, I think I, I think I know which one we're doing. Like we're, we're patterning it, you know, we're patterning, but we're also buttressing. And I, I don't know, like it was, so it was more of just like, could we, could we create some format for, cause a lot of the interns that came out, they didn't, they didn't know how to, they're like, why would we choose this exercise?

I'm like, well, what are we trying to do? You know, so it was more of just a thought provoking step versus a formal step. Um, and then based upon what, you know, then you can, you know, like, well, if you kind of, like I said with the hip, it's like, usually a hip hinge works on these people, but you know, you, you, you might easily just go to a split squat or, uh, you know, or a goblet or a goblet squat movement. So, uh, I'm still tinkering with it now. So, and I don't know how to actually coach people into the fifth step, which is where they should be, you know, but that's all based upon if they want to go back to the activity or not.

But I, sometimes they feel better and they just, it's just, they end up releasing, you know, so they don't get to that point. Yeah. Is there, yes. Like with that step three, I'm like pretty much like the same thing. Like, I don't, I don't know if it's a, what I'm doing, if it's a buttress or a corrective or a break, but it's, it's working. So I know it belongs in step three. Yeah. As long, I think as long as we know it's there and it's like, you kind of have a theory of what you're working off of and it's not like it won't, they won't work with that one won't work with everybody. It's just, it's a high potential guess.

It's a high percentage guess. And then you try to cue what you want to out of it. And if that doesn't work, you just scrap it. Like I do with that girl. It's like, I, like I love a single leg deadlift reach far reach across, you know, with, with most groins, but it just wasn't working for us. So you just start, start scrapping it, regress, regress, regress, regress. And then, then work them back up like you did. It's like, okay, now, now we're on track up, up, up, up, up. Oh, now we're going to load you up on that. Yeah. So I started to make, cause I'm not too like quick thinking of what, what exercises I'm going to pick for what.

So I actually made a chart of just like exercises of first aid corrective and Dan Johns. And that way I just have a quick reference of what I want to do with everyone. And then until I get more experience and know what works best and what I, what I cue best with, use that. Yeah. Well, I think it's fun to even like, you just make a new one up or like you'll like, I searched through Instagram a little bit. I'm like, Oh, that one looks cool. You know, that, that, uh, yeah, let's try that one today and just, you know, if it doesn't work and you scrap it real quick, but that's how you build a little bit of a library.

Um, I, I found out that the, the, the bridge is when they really bothered, like the people just lumbar extended too much or groin pain or whatever was going on. Uh, I just thought that I put that weight on their belly. Cause I'm like, I don't want to keep cue in their belly. I just put the weight. I'm like, Oh, that works. And it kept continually working. And so you just, you just make stuff up based upon the theory that you're working off of that's so like whenever I cue, like a, a dead bug, I don't even cue like stomach anymore. I get a BOSU ball and have them hold it with their arms and legs.

So when they reach with opposite arm and leg, they have to press into that ball to hold it. So they're already engaging the core. And then, so when I take it away and I was like, remember, don't forget that feeling. And they usually just pick up right on it. Yeah. Nice. Cause I, I get really annoyed poking someone's stomach. Yeah, I do too. I'll, I'll put, I hate when people do it to me. I'll put my foot below them and I'll start kicking their flank just between like the ground. I said, don't, don't let me in. Don't, cause I don't want to get down. Um, no, that's a good one. I don't know if you tried to like, like with, I'll screen out people's backs.

And if they, if they're, if they're, if they're a hot disc, I wouldn't do this to them. But like a dead bug, like I'll just, I'll just make them crunch. Like, like I'll take their upper half and crunch them. I'll teach them to breathe and then I'll, then I'll have them move an extremity. Cause it's, at least they'll create tension that way, you know? Right. Yeah. I, uh, I don't, who was, uh, was it Liebenson? Uh, that was, uh, the, the, um, they're been underneath the heel and said, don't let go or else my dog dies. Oh, the puppy dies. I thought, I thought Dan, how about Dan John did that? It was dandron.

I thought it, I could, you know, yeah, I thought it, yeah. I thought it was a puppy dies when I, yeah, it was, I used, I used that the other day and the lady was like, Oh God. All right. Too much. Yeah. She got the idea. Yeah, there was, I had a girl yesterday that she was, uh, just before the office opened, me and Mike, the intern, we're talking about making cues real, making them real to people. And, um, so someone was in and we were doing a, uh, like a bow pull, like a, like a sideline bow pull, but more like getting thoracic rotation sideline. And so, um, they, they were just kind of talking, you know, and like, so I wanted, I wanted a little bit more here, a little bit further, right.

Um, further with their hand. And so there was no target. And so I was like, Mike, make him go further. You know, I'm trying to, I try to like stand behind the page. So that way it's just like, I just point and do more. Right. And so, uh, he's like, Oh yeah, just go for a little further. And he's still kind of talking, just like, there's no, no effort for the reach. And so I said, Michael's put a block down there. And so we put a block down there. Hey, touch the block. He's still, still two inches short of the block. He can totally touch the block. If you don't touch the block, I'm literally going to go in your wallet and take 20 bucks out of it.

Touch the block. He started touching the block. Right. And so we had one with a halo too. It's like, she kept moving her head. I said, I swear, if you touch my hand, I'm going to take 20 bucks out of your wallet. She, she was so solid at that point. Right. Yeah. You know, you got to make it real. No one likes killing puppies. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I use a lot of like that, uh, shoulder hand and stuff like that with the rolling over and touching blocks. Yeah. I use that one a lot. Yeah. Did Winchester go over that a bit too? I'm guessing that's something he taught over there. Uh, I think so. I'm sure.

I mean, it might just be escaping my mind right now, but I'm sure he did. Um, yeah, I, uh, I actually use it a lot with, uh, golfers. Hmm. Cause as you're, as you're coming up, this posterior part, you need to get that post of your glide. Do you see an immediate change of symptoms in range of motion? Uh, usually they don't really have many symptoms, but their swing looks a lot better and they're not compensating so much with thoracic rotation. Nice. Do you ever, do you ever go far enough away from like, let's just say if you're, I'm just, I'm just thinking about for, for a golf swing. Like say, if you don't have the shoulder motion, then you'll try to get more out of say a back or a hip.

And then do you ever go far enough down where you're like your hip is because your shoulder doesn't cross flex. You ever go and like, and then you try it and they're like, holy shit, that worked. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think I told you about the other day, the pitcher he had, they want to do Tommy John on him and we stabilize his not stabilize. That's a bad word for pitchers, but pretty much worked on his, um, I did like the screw in and then I did like the, um, some serratus work, some of the prayers and he had no elbow pain throwing. Yeah. It was just, yeah. Yeah. So what do you think the diagnosis is?

What's that? So what's the diagnosis? Uh, I don't know. He's not, he doesn't have any pain. Yeah. That's a crazy thing is like the, like some, some, uh, a guy just called the phone actually here a little bit ago. And he's like, yeah, so I've, I've had, you know, um, uh, I'll make up a joint to make sure he's not listening or something. It's like, oh yeah, my, my knee hurts, you know? And, uh, you know, I've had injections done. I've done this done. They've done, you know, they've in MRI at once. They want to do a second time. Nothing's wrong with it. I'm like, dude, you just logically, you just said there's nothing like there's no physical.

Literally just said that. Yeah. It's like, why you keep looking like, and so for like a Tommy John, wouldn't they image and see the, like, yeah, I don't get it. What's the, what is like, like, how can just, we be illogical about, oh, you know, we don't see it. Screw it. We're going to fix it. Yeah. He was like first year college too. So he was young. They wanted to do that. And I was like, and worked on his shoulder and then worked on his grip. You know, I love the grip. And, uh, yeah, I was like, go, go home and pitch however many you usually do and just pay attention. And he's like, I haven't had any pain.

So. Yeah. The, the grip one. I'm still intrigued. I get a, you get a tech Cody, but the grip one, do you ever use it for? Neck problems too? Like I knew you said ridiculous. Like just neck, just neck. Say like a, say like a periscapular from the neck. Like, do you ever use it for that kind of thing? Um, yeah. Cause I'll do rows with it. So I'll, a lot of rows and I'll do like a, just cute chin tuck with it and stuff like that. Cause like, I noticed like when they do the grip and then with a row, that shoulder is locked in because they're so scared to let that go. So like they, that shoulder is locked in and they're, they're scared to move.

So, so because they're being so careful that the cue is so real that the balls are going to let go. So you don't have to cue in scapular protraction or depression, none of that stuff just happens. Pretty much. That's, I mean, that's from, from what I've seen in my experience. Yeah. Well, like I, like I said, I haven't used that one much. I probably should. I'm Cody made it up. I'm sure it's good. Um, but yeah. Cueing from the hand, cueing from the hand and the foot is like the real deal. You know, like I, I, I, I'll, I'll explain to people like what they should, where they'll probably feel it.

Um, that way they can tell me that if they don't feel it there and that way I can cue them again. But I do think that, that baseball one is, I'm sure it's good because you can, you can, it's so, it's so distal. It's so distal. A lot of concentration on that. Yeah. I've had a lot of luck. There was, I had a guy, he was training for SWAT and he, he had issues with the bench press, which you have to pass a bench test to be on SWAT and he couldn't do it because of his forearm. And just changing the grip to where he had like better grip on the bar and he wasn't just putting all that weight onto his shoulder and he was able to put up more.

How did you cue that grip? So I did. So I, I used the ball at first just to get, I always use the ball first so people can like understand the, the hand crunch that he explains. Just prime it up. Right. And then I moved to a bar. We have a bar in there. So, um, just had him do a couple reps on the bar and I was like, do, do what you normally do. So he did like set of threes. Like, yeah, it's, it's killing my forearm right now. I was like, okay, so let's practice this grip. And he busted out like 10, 20 reps and he was like, oh, I'm, I'm good. It was like absolutely nothing right now. And I was like, you gotta, you gotta retain him longer businessman.

You're like, I always do, do what you do and then I'll fix it. Yeah. There is, uh, when I went to one of Guido's workshops and he went over bench and there was a, he had a cue where you basically take, you take the bench, it was a little wider grip than normal, but it's to create shoulder tension when, no matter where you're at. Um, it was ripped the band or ripped the bar in half like a noodle. And so, yeah, straight across. Um, but you have to go from a little bit wider than you think, do that shit is hard, really hard. I mean, the amount of tension you get through that without even putting like empty bar is like, okay, I don't want to do it anymore.

I did too. I haven't, I honestly haven't looked into any of his, I got his paper, the proprioceptive paper and I haven't done any research on like his, uh, seminars and whatnot. Yeah. I don't know if he has any at the moment. I wonder, I'm going to look at his website right now. Uh, say, is it safe recovery Guido? Um, yeah, I don't, I don't know if he's doing anything at the moment, but, uh, he had, I think he had some lined up, but then obviously with COVID kind of stuff is, uh, things like things have kind of fallen apart for people. But, um, yeah, I know, uh, he, I'm, I, he had the book too.

I know that kinetic integrations is what it, or, oh, what the hell is website's not up. But, um, but yeah, I, I would, I would just reach out to him, uh, Guido has a wealth of knowledge. He has a lot of good information. It's just, where is he going to be at type of thing? You know, um, I went to the one in San Diego, uh, a couple of years back and it was, I mean, he doesn't come down very much. So it was just nice to find, he, he, he, uh, presents more in China. I think it was, I know, I don't, I just got to print present more here. Strange choice. I know. Well, the Chinese are gonna, they're gonna beat us on a lot of things very soon.

So, um, any, uh, as we, before we finish up here, is there anything that you would like to still cover? Pressing questions or case studies or? Pressing questions, case studies. Um, I don't think so right now. Oh, I guess. Oh no, I already asked that. Nevermind. I already asked those questions from the last review. Okay. Um, well, cool. Then we'll, we'll just finish up then. Uh, uh, yeah. So any, any case studies that you end up having, just feel, you feel free to email them to me. I'm always interested. I'll give you suggestions on it. Um, and I think we, I don't know if we'll, I canceled my group zoom, so I don't know if we'll do another one of the recap, but if there's, I'm sure there's going to be another way we can do a, I'm sure this has got to be like a free zoom or just multiple people.

It's probably gonna be 30, under 30 minutes or something like that. 40 minutes. Oh, that's okay. We can do, we can do another one then. It was like 40 bucks a month or something. We were doing it for webinars and so, uh, we can, I mean, whoever's interested can throw in, uh, some money for doing another review. Oh, you're right. We can, you could just do it, uh, do it real quick. Like, what's that? You said it was $40 for the, yeah. For the, for the, for the zoom for the month. Like, so during, during COVID times, I'm going to start calling it like COVID era, you know, like resident renaissance era during COVID era.

Um, we were doing, um, actually the whole, the whole reason why we started the, uh, the six part series was because we were, I don't know if you remember way back when, but, uh, me and Dawne Costantino were putting on an SI joint webinar for, for general populations. They could, so they could, uh, basically trying to get our practice going again, you know? And when I showed up to the webinar, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of chiropractors in there. Like, it's just a bunch of chiros. Like, I'm like, what are you guys bored? Okay, fine. I'll, we'll make, I'll make this. I'll make this original content for you.

And so we did it like a couple of days later. Um, and that was the introduction one and then people were interested. And so we ended up doing it. But, so that was the start of having the $40 a month. So we've had it since like, I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't need to do this anymore now because we've recorded everything. So yeah, it's all done. So, well, cool. Yeah. So if any, if anyone is interested though, if you want to, um, you can email me, uh, sub at P2 sports care.com. You can always reach out. And, uh, if you want to do a big group chat, we can, um, the, the webinar ones are cool. Cause they would allow a hundred people.

Oh yeah. Like so easy. And you can just turn everybody's microphone off or turn it on. Yeah. So that's what you use. Yeah. It was, it was good. It worked really good. So, um, I would, I would strongly encourage anybody who's doing a webinar series to, to use zoom at least, but record it all in one month. Yeah. It was smooth. Yeah. Thanks. There was, there was a couple of snafus with audios, but yeah. One R I think that majority of the time I was like on our end. I don't, I don't. So during that, during early COVID era, there was, um, we started, so I talked to my friend who did, he, he works in like internet and people's houses and still on it.

And I was like, dude, what's like all of a sudden, once, once people stop working, our internet stopped working. And like, it was slow, like it was glitchy and stuff. And so, um, he was like, yeah, he's like, it's based upon a lot of things. You know, it's your, obviously your modem, your service, what you pay for, how many people are in your same IP address area who are on it. And so he's like, yeah, that makes, makes sense. He's like, you might as well just do everything he can't. And so I think the first few was, was our, was my fault. Cause I didn't know that our internet would just, it crashed at the office and it crashed at the house too.

So, but, but it got better that after like a third one, I, I paid for upgrades on everything and it got much better. Of course you had to spend money for it. Yeah. Well, it's, at least it's better now that if you're, if you're going to work from home, shit, you got to have good internet. That's one thing I learned. Um, but cool. Uh, yeah. So thanks for being on then. We'll, we'll leave it at that, but we'll talk soon. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks, man. Alrighty. I really have much to do. Okay. Let's pause one sec then. Uh, so we're back on. Tyler said, Hey, I want to come back on and I forgot to ask, uh, yeah, you're, you're, how would you improve the, uh, those workshops since I need the feedback, uh, I can patch it together by the way.

So that that's, I can always patch some things together if need be. Okay. Um, as far as like improving, I don't know, I don't know what more I would have changed from it. I guess, I guess, I know like one of the things that I wanted to definitely see was some more, some Dan Johns, which you went over really well with a lot of them and, um, differentiating like the, uh, correctives and buttressings, which, I mean, you even said that you don't even know sometimes that, so I guess, I mean, it was well taught and thought out. So like my, my struggle and clinic was, okay, cool. We did our McKenzie's.

Is it okay to ever go back to them or should we just move on and be done with it? Uh, when should I do McKenzie's? When should I stop doing them or with any exercise NDS? Should I stop doing sliders at this point? Should I, what should I do with them? So it really helped me understand why we're doing these things that I learned in the seminars and the purpose of them. the, like the true purpose of them. So it's not just to pretty much just humor us. I'm like, yeah, I know what this is. And so I understand like why, what, what, what it's used and stuff like that. And I think you did a really good job with, with teaching that.

Thanks. So, so I need to improve on the Dan, the, the, the Dan John category level four strength suggestion. So like, like I said, like watching, um, DMACC before was like a really good, like prequel because he went over all the Dan John stuff in depth. He totally did. Yeah. So like when, when I got to this, when you went over Dan John's, I already knew all of it from DMACC. So I don't know like what more, I like how at the, I think it was like by, I think it was shoulder maybe is when you were kind of like messing around with cueing of like, this is why you don't over cue. And then you had Allie do an exercise and you're, you're trying so hard to over cue and you're like, I don't even know what to say right now.

Yeah. I just took the exercise away from her. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah. She was, uh, I was like, this isn't working. We're going to stop. We're going to see, we're going to see other people. Um, but yeah, uh, uh, I, I, I agree. I think the, when, when we get into step four, like, so there's, I'm trying to think of like the, what the workshop is being a more, uh, categorizing, you know, categorizing dabbling in. And, and when I, when I first put it on, I was thinking, do I even need to show anything? Like I was, I forget I was talking to you about it. It might've been Allie or Donna. And, uh, and I was like, cause I'm really, I can, I don't, they don't need to do it my way.

You can do it your own way, you know, whatever tools you have. And with, with Cody's step four, he, you're right. He teaches step four better than I do. And it's more precise. Obviously you can see different queuing styles. Um, I do, I do, I do pretty well. Um, but he's more precise and I think they compliment each other pretty well. And, um, with, yeah, I could have, I, the, I could have gone a little bit deeper into that for sure, but I caught myself doing a little bit more. Like, I think in the first one, it was like, holy shit, we spent an hour on step one, you know? Right. Yeah. And I think the first one was like three hours long.

When you started to do, um, sending us the exams beforehand to like save time on like playing the video, whatever for the exam. I liked that a lot better. And in your podcast, I don't know if it was Mikey asked part one or two, but he was saying to like, send like, um, it's not like a file of like the pre stuff to read before webinars. And I thought that was a good idea. Just send like what you did, the exam and whatever that we're going over, like an outline. So we can kind of like, just pretty much expect what to do. And so we can like come up with questions. Like, I don't even know what this exercise is.

So I want to make sure I see that from him. Yeah. So then I think, let me, let me rewind a little bit. So we're, what do I need to improve on? What do I need to patch in here? What do I need to do to make it killer? Sorry. Um, improve on, I would say, uh, expand on the part four a little bit more on the, um, maybe even do like a, uh, a section of just that. Just so you have like more time. So that way in every video, you don't have to go over it. You know what I mean? That's a good idea. Like part one could be, here are the exercises go over them. And then from that point out do, so we all know those exercises to be like, what exercises would you do?

So we already know them. Okay. That's, that's a good idea. I think, uh, I can easily fill a lot of time with that. The, the, I think the, the thing that I, the, the thing that is, it's a little troubling to, to make these because they're theoretical, they're theoretical models until you really have someone in front of you. Um, and you saw well with Allie, it's like, this is the exercise I think is right for her, but it is definitely not right for her. And so you have to quick think and, and okay, so what do we want out of this? I'm going to, I'm going to cue it this way and maybe this way and, uh, maybe make you more real.

And okay. Let's just try the other side. Let's try that first. Maybe it's just a better feel over there. Come back to it again. Okay. This is not working. Scrap it. Um, and so I kind of think that the, uh, part four, same, same thing too. It's, it's, uh, sometimes you have to dial the dimmer switch down, you know, with, with, with floor tension. Sometimes like this morning I went from a, from a, um, a wiggle your feet in the sand, spread the floor to us to, or to turn the, turn the floor to spread the floor on the goblet squat. Um, but it really comes down to, I think who's, who's in front of you.

So I kind of wonder if a case study, just case studies is the easiest, but then you need, uh, but each case study, it's, it's like, I guess you'll got to have like a camera on your chest and it's like, how do you know? Like, cause you can take, we can take them through step four and session one, probably sessions one and two are going to be the most productive for everyone to, to learn from. Um, but shit, number one, you might just be, you know, I hate my desk job position, you know, and that's all you get to. And it's like wasted footage, but, um, I don't know, maybe I'll, maybe I'll get a couple of patients that are okay with me sharing, like, and I'll just ask one of the interns a video.

And so we'll, I'll, I'll cue them through a workout. Yeah. And that was like another thing I was going to, uh, suggest is getting like a sign off for like an okay with a patient. Yeah. I can, I think I could do that with a couple of people. There's a, there's a guy that comes in, uh, he just, he just likes to, he's basically just drink, train, lifting out, bro down, you know, he comes in and, uh, I decided to put in, uh, uh, step downs in it the other day. And so he, uh, he'd never complained to knee pain before and he started having some knee pain, both sides with it. And, um, he was, he was really adamant about not stepping back, but keep like loading, like loading the knee and a little bit more of a small knee bend.

And, uh, so I, I, I started to try to cue him from, he had a couple of blocks up. And so first I just had to cue him back, wait into the heel. Then I put a weight out in front to counterbalance him. That was work. And I scrapped, I scrapped a weight or I, sorry, I scrapped a block and then I scrapped another block and he was still having pain. He was one that actually had to make you realize that I, dude, I will literally take 20 bucks out of your wallet if you do not step on the ground there and pause. And so he did, he's like, Oh, that's better. You know? So, but that would have been a good one.

Cause we were, there was nothing really wrong with him, but he was having pain through the, through the exercise. So. Yeah. And I, that's definitely something that I'm going to have to like work on is truly exhaust the exercise before I ditch it. Yeah. Or the patient lose hope. It loses faith in you. Okay. Yeah. Well, so I'll, uh, probably I'll, I'll see if I can come up with a couple ideas of things to double down on that. Um, and I'll probably run by you before I even make anything to see if you think that's would solve the problem. Um, but do you steps, do you think steps one, two, three are good enough or does that need to be improved on steps one, two, three?

Yeah. Ever since you started doing, sending us the exam first, I like that a lot better than having to like cue a video or you doing it live just for, just cause like, um, but like on, cause it's like, I mean, it step one is like, uh, can be like into like an hour long, uh, process. So you won't be able to get into like the correctives and, uh, yeah. Dan was much. Yeah. Did the exam flows help you? Have you used the exam flows? Yep. Every single one. Okay, good. All right. You have to figure out a knee and ankle. I think the exam flow is what I valued the most from that. Cause like, I mean, I had a somewhat of a rehab.

Um, so I wasn't like too concerned on, I mean, I learned a ton of it and definitely expanded my rehab. Um, but it wasn't like my weak area. It was definitely like my exam. Yeah. Especially hip hip. I didn't know anything about hip. Like patient came in with hip and I was like, I don't know. I love it. I love a good hip. Yeah. Uh, the, yeah, that was the, the, I think that the, it'd be ideal if everyone had the same starting point, you know? And, uh, but I know we all have our different strengths and weaknesses and yeah, but cool. Well, thanks for the feedback. I'll, I'll, I'll see if I can make that happen.

That might take a little bit of time though. Yeah. And I already, I reviewed, uh, things on your website. Oh yeah. Thanks. Those will be helpful. People read those. People read that shit. I know, no matter what I'm getting, I read the reviews. Yeah. That'll be, I'm going to, I'm going to hound a couple of people for that too. Cause that's, uh, I'm going to make sure that they are able to implement it in their practice and they have a good, they have a good thing. And I say, look, I want, I want you to verbally say it to me. I will transcribe it and you just have to post it. Okay. We, we spent like 15 hours together on a, on a workshop, damn it.

And so I taught you about hip FAI and Cetus syndrome. So we're going to, we're going to do this review. Okay. So, so we'll, we'll, we'll actually end it now. Um, all right. So thank you for being on. Hey, no problem. Right on Tyler. Thanks for being on. It was a pleasure. Um, and thank you so much for being supportive of creation of the series, uh, the webinar series. Uh, to be honest with you, it was funny when we first started, um, it was during the beginning of COVID and then I was putting on a webinar. Uh, for just patient, patient acquisition and, uh, or just getting patients to come in physically or, or, uh, do telehealth.

And there were so many students that wanted to come on that, uh, we decided, I decided just to put out a free webinar and then, uh, it presented the system and, uh, I was only going to proceed forward with it if somebody was going to fund it a little bit or I had a couple attendees. And so, uh, we didn't have a lot of attendees and you were one of them. So I thank you for supporting it because this would not have come to creation unless, uh, you were supportive in the beginning. So thank you so much for trusting in the, in the process. And, uh, I hope it, um, fares well for you over the, over the years.

Everybody, if you're looking to, um, look at and check out the series, there's a start with number one. It is a six part series. So start with hip. Uh, it's going to be one of six. I strongly encourage you to go through all of them and actually probably the best ones are five and six. But if you start there, you're not going to understand some of the things that we've covered since we cover a lot of different principles. And since it's a progressive series, we don't redo them. It's not like you jump in and number three, and then all of a sudden I'm going to redo everything that we did before actually bypass a lot of slides because no point talking about it again.

So, uh, go one through six. It's going to be the best money you've ever spent. I'm confident in that. And it's the exact way that I'm training all the interns that come through, uh, the office now. It's a very organized way of, of thinking about, um, how to progress the body and how to progress treatment plan. So if you're looking for that, that's on p2sportscare.com slash products and scroll down, you'll see, uh, one of six. Uh, thanks for being part of the movement. I will see you guys next week.