What Is Pilates and How Is It Different From Yoga?

This is session number 58 of the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast. In the words of Aristotle, there's only one way to avoid criticism. Do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing. Welcome to the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast, where you can learn about sports injury theory, rehab, diagnosis, and how to understand the doctor lingo you didn't understand at your appointment. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey, everybody. It's Dr. Sebastian Gonzales with the Performance Place Sports Care Podcast. Today, we're going to go into first that quote, because quotes are amazing. I think that, gosh, you know, starting this podcast, I really thought that no one would be benefiting from this thing.

And I thought there was a possibility I might get a little backlash. And I always, if you listen to the other podcast, you know, I try to watch what I say a little bit around certain types of topics. But, you know, I'm really liking right now that we have well over 500 people listening to each episode of the podcast. And I've thought before, like, the amount of people, if I was going to walk in every week and have 500 of you listening to a topic that I'm talking about, and I mean, I haven't had a bunch of negative backlash yet, which is great. I'm really, really honored to have that many people listening to it, even this far, like 500 is not a lot for a podcast. But when you step into an auditorium, that's a lot of people. So I'm really happy y'all listening. And I hope that my venturing out is going to be beneficial to everybody's learning process and really help out with patient education, as well as improvements of doctors and maturing doctors within this field.

Today, our topic is going to be on Pilates. And I'll be quite honest with you, I don't know much about Pilates. But by popular requests, we're going to have back Tim Fleischer from episode 37. He is a jack of all trades. He is in the University of Texas, Austin, an anatomy professor. He's also a stop Pilates instructor. He's owned a gyrotonic studio. He does musculoskeletal ultrasound. He works in a lab. He's a triathlon coach. I mean, gosh, he does a ton of stuff. And we were talking the other day because we were just BSing on the phone. And we're talking about Pilates. And I had a lot of questions about it. And we realized there was a lot of misunderstanding and disconnect. And he said, why don't we just do a podcast on this thing? So we don't have any workflow with this, just like the other podcasts. It seemed like the flow was okay. We know each other well enough to where I think it's going to be entertaining. And hopefully he says some good things like drowning the puppy exercise again, or puppies in the snow. So let's have on again, Tim Fleischer. We will put all of his contact information in the show notes as well for you guys to give him some constructive feedback or give him some love. So here's our interview with Tim Fleischer.

Hey, everybody. This is Tim Fleischer. We have on again, Tim. Say, hey. Hey. Hey. What's going on there in Austin right now? It's about 100 degrees down here, man. Yeah. What, uh, what do people do 100 degrees in Austin? Like, do they just, they use one of those blankets with water over it and just kind of put it on their head and walk around or what do they do? Uh, they, there's, let's see, next to my house, I have this pool called, it's like a natural pool called, um, deep Eddie. And it's, it, they fill it up every day with water from the lake, I guess. And so it's like this real, it feels really good to swim in there. So everybody just hangs out around there. And then, uh, you know, they stand up paddle boarding on the lake. That's like all the, the trendy thing to do now, you know, take a selfie on a paddle board or whatever.

They all have go, go pros at the end of their sticks. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, you go for a run and you almost hit these people. If you're not careful, like they're running with these selfie sticks and they extend for like three feet. And I don't know who is interested in looking at these videos. Um, but they're making them. No, people like to take pictures of themselves running and stuff. Oh yeah. They like that. That that's the thing they like, uh, they hashtag like grinding or the grind hammer hammer time. Yeah. I got that. I got a buddy. He's a, he's like a, um, he's a strength and conditioning and a basketball coach for a school in Virginia. And he's always posted on Instagram, like their workouts. And it's always with like a hashtag grind it. And I'm like, I'm like, Mike, we care. Who cares? You're practicing basketball. So you should do.

Well, you keep following them. You must like something about grinding. No, I just follow them and make fun of them later and be like, I take screenshots of, of these silly hashtags. I'm like, what are you doing here, man? What are we, what are we doing here? The hashtag is an art. They, they, they really, people really think long and hard about hashtags. Like I would bet they spend longer on their hashtags than they do on the actual picture or post. Cause most people's pictures are absolutely terrible. Well, at the same time, like I've got a friend who's like a professional, one of those professional crossfitters. And she, when she hashtag, she said, it's all about the hashtag, what she does. And she has so many followers and so many likes, like she puts up a picture and like, it's like a million people like it. And I'm like, where did you get all these friends? Yeah. Yeah. I think it is, it is about the hashtags, but I guess I'm sort of, I mean, I get, I don't know if they get paid.

I don't know what the deal is. I'm so, I'm sure they get, I'm sure they get paid to some degree. I don't know. My beef with like Instagram and stuff, like I understand like the whole spend time on your hashtags and like all that stuff, but really it is a picture based community. Take good pictures. Take, have good lighting, have good, uh, you heard about the golden rule or the rule of thirds. I mean, it just, it irks me inside. It irks you, huh? It does irk me. Don't get me started on pictures. Well, I like going through Instagram though. I do like looking at the pictures, but I mean, I know what people look like. So, you know, if they're going to throw out a ton of, you know, selfies or whatever, like, um, it's kind of weird. That's the problem. If you have more than three selfies in a row, I'll take it back. If you have more than one selfie per 10 pictures, I think there's a little bit of a problem. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, what else is a problem is, uh, sometimes you'll see that a person like, um, so, you know, I'm a Pilates instructor, right? And so, and I used to teach in Brazil and a lot of the students down there, they'll take like these, not saying this is a Brazilian thing. Cause I've seen it in other cultures as well, but they'll go to the beach and like, take a picture of them, like soaking wet, like in like, you know, a bikini or whatever, and then put some inspirational quote underneath it. But I'm like, that quote has nothing to do with what I'm looking at a scantily dressed person right now. It's like, there's this one. And I was looking at it. It was like this, this, um, this young lady was like, it, it was like a real, like provocative kind of picture. Right. And then underneath it, it was like, reach up to the stars and go for your goals and this, that, and the other. And I was like, this picture has nothing to do with that.

Maybe that's their theme of their, of their channel. Maybe. Well, I mean, I was looking at, I mean, it's like, well, you were looking at, I'm like, well, yeah, it was on my feet and, you know, and when I'm on a flight or, you know, board or whatever, of course I'm going to be scrolling through there. So I don't know. I don't know. So you're getting off topic. Tell me about Pilates. Damn it. Wait, wait, wait. Before we start, I told you I was going to do this. Okay. You do not look like Paul Rudd. No. Okay. So everyone, Tim realized later that, uh, after our interview, there was a spurt of Paul Rudd references in the beginning and you just bit, you just went straight into the Paul Rudd stuff during the episode. And I, I sent you pictures of, and I got two this week. Someone said Christian Bale and this was on YouTube. The next post, the next comment was Tom Cruise. And I think the next was Paul Rudd.

Yeah. You don't, you don't look like Tom Cruise. You don't look like Paul Rudd. Now Christian Bale, you, you, you got the jib of a Christian Bale. Like you kind of talk like Christian Bale. Like you, you have the same kind of, you know, the, the move, the mouth movements as Christian Bale. I can, I can, I can understand that. Okay. Okay. Paul Rudd, no way. But I, I, you know, I wanted to be fair to your audience. And so I'm giving you a few options of who you actually do look like. Okay. So, so we'll do a spurt of, uh, uh, of Christian Bale references to come. Cause apparently that's the only thing. So I guess from the nose down, you're Christian Bale, you know, I should probably, I should probably take a selfie on the Instagram feed and let people just say what I don't do and don't look like. That's an appropriate time to take a selfie, like half it and have a picture of Christian Bale and yourself.

So I'll be comparisons. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the first guy, have you ever seen a Christmas story? Wait, are you talking about Pilates yet? No, no, no, no. We're still on this. I'm not done. Okay. There's two people who I'm going to give you the option of looking at. One of them, his name is Zach Ward. Okay. Okay. He played the character Scott Farkas in a Christmas story. Okay. You look like him. Okay. Yeah. Christmas story. I'm looking it up right now. No, this kid's redheaded. He's got braces. Let me give you a note. There's one more for you. You look like a famous actor from the early nineties as well.

A guy by the name of Warwick Davis. Warwick Davis. Yeah. W-A-R-W-I-C-K. W-A-R-W-I-C-K Davis. Yeah, you look like... This guy looks like the guy from the Night of the Roxbury. Or a small Andre the Giant, really. Yeah. He played the leprechaun in the movie The Leprechaun. No, he was an Ewok. The Ewok Wicket in Star Wars, it says. Yeah. Well, I was thinking about him. They're like Warwick Davis. So there's your options there. Okay, I'll take Warwick. I like Warwick. Yeah, what you need to do is take over the selfie feature, right? Like we talked about in half the picture. And then go, you know, and then hashtag, like, do your business moves.

You know, hashtag it up. Okay, I'm going to, maybe I'll put Warwick and this other kid on there. I'll do a three-way shot and we'll do a selfie and just see. I'm guaranteeing zero, zero comparison. Okay, tell me about Pilates. We're 10 minutes in. We haven't spoken a word about Pilates yet. We'll come back to this. We'll come back to it. I'll let you ream on me later. Yeah. All right, so let's talk a little Pilates. What do you want to know? I want to know, okay, so I want to know about what's the difference between Pilates, yoga, core work, gyrotonic. I mean, people don't know. I don't think people know what Pilates is.

Like half the time when people come in and they're like, well, I've been doing yoga. Well, I did Pilates a little bit and like, but they seem to just kind of one or the other. Are they the same thing or are they mild differences? Tell me the deal. Yeah, so I think they all fit generally in the same family, right? So gyrotonic. Mind-body, you said? Yeah, mind-body, you know, which is going to be much less about, you know, if we want to package that, probably it's going to be much less about quantity of movement and volume and power creation and things like that. And it's going to be much more about quality of movement.

So how you initiate a move is going to be very important in all of these, you know, as opposed to how much load you can push with the movement. So mind-body really, you know, the load should be light enough so you should be able to really cognitively focus on what your, you know, what task you're trying to accomplish and, you know, even feel certain patterning of muscles. I'm not saying there is a specific patterning, but if we're trying to work on, like, you know, glute meat or glute max, we want you to be able to connect with that right away. And we don't want the load to be in so much that, you know, you're like, this is really heavy.

That's all I know. So the question would be, well, can't you make anything mind-body? And I guess so. I guess so. I mean, Pilates is a specific set of exercises, though, developed by this guy, Joseph Pilates. So are all types, I know there's different types of Pilates, just like it seems like yoga has all these offshoots. Is there one type of Pilates, which, I mean, are they all offshoots of the same thing? Well, no, there's different brands of Pilates, right? But, I mean, the Pilates workouts themselves, there's a specific order, a specific sequence that they were actually taught in. But the brands of Pilates would differentiate themselves from being classical, which is how the original method was taught, versus a more contemporary approach, which the contemporary approaches would argue, hey, we've adopted better practices as far as physical therapy goes, and, you know, neutral spine and things like this, whereas maybe the classical method didn't emphasize neutral posture, more of a flat back position.

So all of them would really, and you would really, they would focus on some, what they call, you know, basic concepts, basic principles, you know, foundations to Pilates, which would be, you know, number one, it would start with your breathing, you know, and then your pelvic placement, and then, you know, your shoulder girdle stability, right, your ribcage placement, and then your head and neck, you know, your cervical placement. So, you know, you take those variables into account on every single exercise in a pretty big way. We're talking about Pilates or yoga or both? Yeah, sorry, we're talking about Pilates right there.

Yoga, I'm not as familiar with, so I couldn't speak to yoga. I know the fundamental foundations of yoga and Pilates are different, where, you know, yoga has, to my understanding, and somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, you know, I'm not an expert in yoga. Yoga has a philosophical foundation, and Pilates has much more of a biomechanical foundation. That's not saying that you can't apply good biomechanics to yoga. You most certainly can, and, you know, a good yoga instructor will most certainly do that, but, you know, its foundations lie within much more philosophy. Now, to where that goes from there, I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking, you know, I've got friends who love yoga, strength coaches. I don't do it just because there's not enough time in the day for me to focus on that. Um, and, you know, I prefer to just kind of stick with, like, Pilates, and when I can get in and do a gyrotonic class, I like doing that. Um, just kind of vibes with me a little bit more with the other things I do, but, um, but, yeah. So, I mean, there's good and bad in all, right? You get a good instructor in any exercise modality, it's great. If you get a bad one, it's not great. Well, I was just curious with the, uh, you know, I feel like, I mean, I'm not well-versed in really any of them either.

And, um, but the questions I get from people, or the, the, uh, I want to put it like the, the interpretation I get from a lot of people that they, when they're talking about yoga or Pilates, at least those two, they don't seem to know much of the difference either. Um, and, and from my understanding too, yoga did have the philosophical background. It was the, uh, and then they, um, turned it more into like a, I thought the core power one was more of like a, or they call it flow yoga or something that nature where they're, it's a little bit more work, right? It's not, so it's not as more in, in your mind, but the, uh, I don't, I don't know if people really know that they, they're kind of using them interchangeably or they'll, do you get what I mean?

They're different exercises, right? So they're Pilates based exercises are their own set of exercises, you know? So, you know, and yoga exercises are their set of exercises. So when you talk about, if we want to talk strict Pilates, right, that is theories in a repertoire of exercises, you know, that are, that are made specifically for either a mat or a machine called the Cadillac or a machine called the reformer ladder barrel, arc barrels, you know, the, the stability chair or the Wumba chair. You know, the, you know, the classical folks call it, I guess, um, there's specific exercises. So it's a, it's an exercise, it's a, it's an exercise method.

These exercises, um, are Pilates exercises. And I'm guessing they're, and they're, they're scalable, I'm assuming. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, so I mean, you know, that's, you know, so that, that's the difference, you know, you're not going to say, you know, it, it, it's Pilates because of the exercise that it is. Yeah. And the way in, and to some extent, the way that you, you adhere to the principles, you know, but you can apply those principles to any sort of strength training. Okay. For sure. Um, I like Pilates because it's very gentle. It's, it's, it's used really well in a prehabilitative and post rehabilitative setting, like a warmup setting.

So you could go do a Pilates, uh, workout before you go hit like a 10 mile run or something. It's not going to wear you out. So the whole premise. Go ahead. Oh, well, so the other day we're, we're talking about, I thought we're talking about, it was, it facilitates the, the deep core, right? Was that the partial point? Um, so you, so it's a, so it's a good intro to doing rehab is what you just, or intro to doing strength training. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think Pilates has done a really good job of is really emphasizing the, the, the, the, the, the need to strengthen the deep spinal and deep abdominal muscles and deep hip muscles.

Um, and not just assuming these muscles are working properly, you know, um, when you load up, when you go max load on things, you know, exercise in the eighties really was sloppy and it was really compressive. And so the step aerobic stuff. Yeah. My mom's had, you know, she's got a spinal fusion right now from doing all that high impact aerobic stuff from the eighties. And, um, you know, all that Jane Fonda stuff and just moving really hard and fast and not really focusing on quality. And I feel like Pilates kind of came in, I think it just came in and, you know, um, it didn't start in the eighties, but I know the company that I work for, um, really started taking off in the late eighties.

Um, and early nineties. And what they focused on was just that movement quality. It's not that you're doing a sit up. It's how you're doing that sit up. It's not that you're doing a side leg lift. It's how you're doing it. And that's one of the things that I really appreciated about it. Uh, another thing that I really appreciate about Pilates is that you're really able to focus on which muscles you need to relax during a workout. So you'll do a series where you're lying on your back and, you know, on a Pilates reformer, for those of you who don't know, it's almost like a bed with springs on it that are attached to a rail.

And then you have what's called a leg press or a foot bar that you can do leg presses on. And then there are these straps that attach to it. And you have these straps in gyrotonic as well, where you're able to put your hands or your feet and push down against that spring resistance. Well, one of the things that's nice about those straps when you put your feet in there is you're really able to just relax your hip flexors and, you know, let the weight of the springs kind of lift your legs while they're in the straps. And there's a lot of exercises that you can relax, focus on really relaxing certain muscles during movements that where you otherwise wouldn't be able to relax them.

So, you know, lifting your legs, you know, you're usually using your hip flexors to lift your legs. But when they're supported by the straps, you're just relaxing the back of your leg to allow the legs to lift. And I guess I'd have to show you, you know, with a, you know, a demo how that would work. Oh, you want to do a video demo, huh? No, I'm not doing a video demo. We should do the video demo. We should correlate it to when this, you know, we should do that. You're a good point. Good point. Hey, I have done those videos for that company I work for. And, and, and let me tell you, I had an impinged hip.

I had two impinged hips when I did it because I was training really hard for an Ironman. And, and I couldn't, and I just, my, my quality of movement in those videos was just awful. I, and to this day, I still haven't seen them. It's okay. You, you, you, you, when you, when you do this demo video for everybody, which you're, you're promising verbally right here, just because, uh, I'll put it in the show notes when it's live. You're going to, you're going to do one. Yeah. I'll do, I'll do, I'll use my, you know, we talked about selfies and Instagram. I'll do like a Instagram live video. Oh, please.

Actually, well, live videos are supposed to be the new thing now. Uh, I might try and do them sooner or later, but I don't know. I know the, uh, so you brought something up there actually. Um, so I don't, have you worked with dancers then? Yeah, I work with a lot of dancers. So what's the, I, I, I've heard the term hip gripping. Yeah. So can you explain that in, cause everything I've read, it didn't make any real mechanical sense to me. It was almost like, um, what is it? Your grip or, uh, the, the hip flexor feels like it's gripping when it gets above a certain position, right? Or like, how does, can Pilates or help with that?

When you're seated, you know, they'll say my hips feel like they're gripping and it feels, it's almost like your adductors and your hip flexors feel like they're overworking to hold a specific position that should be rather effortless. So a good example of that is sitting down with your legs extended and you try and sit up really tall and you just feel this, this uncomfortable tightness on the front of your hips. And you're really not sitting up that tall probably to begin with or whatever. You know, they say, Oh, the front of my hip is, feels pretty uncomfortable. Like just this tightness on the groin area.

And that's what they call gripping. So probably what you're doing there is you're overworking your, your hip flexors and really kicking into your adductors a lot. And probably your femur is in a very poor position. So what we would do is a modification where we would put blocks underneath your, you know, you to sit upright where your pelvis would be rather vertical. And you could, and more importantly, you would be comfortable in using your, you know, your erector spinae to sit up as opposed to just trying to arch your back and sit up with your hip flexors. You want to be pretty comfortable in your seated positions.

And so, so yeah, so that, that, that's, you know, that, that's a common thing. It's very common with guys, you know, guys, as a man, you know, we have tight hips generally speaking. And so, you know, a lot of those modifications are necessary just to make the hips comfortable so that people don't feel those, those gripping sensations. So it could be a number of reasons. It could be tight hip flexors, could probably a lot of times it's a malposition femur within the socket itself. So a lot of times people who feel this way tend to have very weak hip at AB doctors, like glutenin and men tend to be kind of weak.

TFL tends to be a bit dominant. So it sounds almost like impingement types of like patterns. Yeah. That would definitely fall within there. If you've got an impingement, you're going to probably grip more, you know? So, you know, we did a hip mobility stuff to, to help work on that. And there's a lot you can do for it. Is there certain ways that they can assess it on themselves that you've, because it almost sounds like if there's impingement versus, you know, actually gripping or contraction of a hip flexor, they would, I mean, I would feel like they would, with passive range of motion, if it was a muscle, it would go away.

Is there certain ways that you guys test to kind of see what you're going to do with something like that or? Yeah. I mean, one of the things you really want to look at is, I mean, what's their, what's their abdominal wall look like? Like, do they have that length, those lengthened internal and external obliques? Like they have that sway back anterior tilt posture. A lot of times it's weakness in those deep, you know, it's a, it's a weakness in those deep abdominal muscles and the femur is just in a bad position no matter what they do. So it's always going to feel like gripping in that position passive hip abduction tests would be great to look at because, you know, if you can't abduct your hip properly, you're going to be biasing more towards your inner thigh.

You know, it's, it's uncomfortable. So a lot of times these individuals don't have good hip abduction range of motion. They, they can't internally rotate a lot of times their femurs. The seated test where you're doing passive internal rotation would be something that I would look at. Let me, before you continue on that. So everyone, abduction is bringing your leg away from midline. Internal rotation is with a straight leg, your toes are going to move towards the center of you. Yeah. Okay. What were you saying? Yeah. Well, yeah, you can't, you can't, yeah. Internal rotation, you want, you know, I think a seated position is a fair position to test that, um, where they're relaxed and then you just take their ankle and then, you know, make sure their femur doesn't go abduct or adduct, which would be going towards the midline and try and rotate that, try and rotate that femur so that your foot goes to the outside, um, you know, from that seated position.

That sounds like a video again. That sounds like another video. It's a whole series you got going on here with on hip gripping. I mean, even video star starring Sebastian Gonzales, I mean, Warwick Davis, doubt it. Um, so one, one thing we were talking about too, on the side conversation before even starting this was, um, do you feel that you can get rock hard abs from Pilates alone? Yes. Okay. How many people that you see are you looking, are looking for, do they go into Pilates thinking they want a rock hard abs or are they looking for something else? Uh, zero people I see, uh, want that. Um, what do they usually come in for?

Man, the folks that I see, um, are usually they're in pain to begin with. Like it's anything from fibromyalgia to rheumatoid arthritis to, um, just a lot of painful conditions where they can't do that high impact stuff. So they need something gentle on their joints, um, and Pilates and, but they still want to work out, you know, and Pilates definitely provides that. And, you know, it's really all about going after your core strength and then how you move that, those extremities with the core engaged. Um, so a lot of what we do is we put you in a position where you don't have a choice, but to use the muscles we want you to use.

Um, and, uh, you know, like I said, one of the fundamental things is pelvic position and, and, and, um, you know, respiration and that goes together, you know, to really help facilitate good, deep abdominal strengthening. So if you want your deep abdominal strengthening, you're looking for a particular exercise method that's going to do that. Um, I would suggest Pilates, uh, is, is, is an excellent choice. It's not the only choice, but it's an excellent choice. Well, let's just go back. Yeah. So I don't see people who come in and just want the six pack to go around in there, you know, with their selfie sticks and the standup paddle boarding.

You got to look good on your standup paddle board. Um, I don't know. I just, I, uh, I think I'll go back. We'll go back a little bit here to the, uh, I have a really hard time believing, although I've only done Pilates a couple of times. Yeah. Like I'm looking on here on the internet as you're talking and someone described it as a low, low intensity body sculpting, calorie burning workout. How many calories can you burn during now? It's not a calorie burning workout. Yeah. I mean, that is, that's, that's, that's, that's somebody selling you something. That was, I'm having a hard time believing this.

Like, cause no, no, it's not, it's not burning any calories. You're burning. You're probably burning, man. You're probably burning 300 on a good day. On an hour. The Pilates session. Yeah. I mean, come on. You're not getting your heart rate going crazy. A lot of times you're trying to drive your heart rate down. It's, you know, you should be getting yourself in position to go out and do a big time calorie burning workout after your Pilates session. It doesn't mean it's easy. It's just not a focus. And, you know, unless we're using something like the jump board or the cardio tramp, um, where you're doing, and you know, these are rebounding tools where you're learning how to jump and you can get the heart rate up pretty good and make it pretty aerobic.

Um, you know, so, but you know, like as an endurance athlete, I'm going to, I'm going to beg the difference. Are you going to say no on that? Uh, well, I know that last time you were talking about that. Go ahead. What I'm thinking is, you know, I don't want to get on a, on a soapbox, but you know, that's a pretty, that if you're going to make it in a row about a calorie burning workout, you got to be a pretty sedentary individual to begin with. Like, like what are you doing normally if this is your calorie burning workout? It definitely isn't. I can agree with that. I just see, I see a lot of different exercise types and not just Pilates, yoga, weight training.

I mean, there's so many different types that like, I feel like a lot of times they'll, they'll, they'll kind of say that their, their thing is like an end all. Like it does everything. Like, I don't like Pilates. It sounds, sounds really good for like deep core stuff, but I don't know about calorie burning. Like, and even like, even like running, I don't feel like it's, it's something that's going to like shred you up. Like I believe abs are made in the kitchen, you know? Like there's, it's multifactorial with all this stuff. Yeah. If you're gonna, if you're gonna, if you're gonna, if you're gonna, if you got low back pain, you should come in and take Pilates because it's gentle.

If you've got some hip pain, you know, you're doing it. Like I said, it's great for post rehab. I work with a ton of PTs and we go back and forth on, on what we need to be doing for the clients. I don't diagnose anything. I take orders and I don't step out of my lane with it. I'm like, you're the boss, whoever the PT is. And I stay within the bounds of the PT, you know? And, you know, report back to them. But, you know, Pilates is not, not very aerobic in nature for most of us. Now, it depends on how sedentary you are. You could be very sedentary and don't move a lot at all. And Pilates could be quite aerobic.

But I think we're talking a person there who, you know, may be a bit morbidly obese, you know, with a BMI, let's say above 40 or something like that. That's a big individual there. And you know what? That happens. And I've had individuals like that. And that's fine. If it gets you moving, great. Like, you know, I've had to turn away, you know, my last, where I lived before, I had steps and I had to turn away an individual who, she was too heavy to come up the steps, unfortunately. And either was going to, was worried about, it just couldn't get up. There was so much weight on her joints, she couldn't get up the steps.

But she loved Pilates and I hated it for, now I live on a ground floor, but I hated it for because she loves Pilates. It was gentle on her joints and it was aerobic for her. And that's what got her moving. And that's, that's a great thing. So she just enjoyed it. And it was a real shame that we couldn't make that happen for her because, just because I didn't have an elevator, you know. So, for those people, it can be aerobic and it can be that kind of all-encompassing thing. The one thing they can do for their aerobic fitness at the time. But for most of us, it's not, it should not be marketed as a, unless it's a jump board session or whatever, it shouldn't be marketed that way.

That's, that's irresponsible. Scalding people. Okay. Well, I'm okay with that. Like, yeah, no, I totally, I totally agree. Like, with some people, you just have to, like, I know someone who works with, like, elderly people. And it's not even, like, you get them to do just even half of a session or get out of the house sometimes is, is enough. And I know that, so Pilates seven sessions are typically an hour, right? Yeah, I go 50 to 55 minutes. So I'm curious, can, is there, is there benefit to anybody to go lower than that? Like, because I know, okay, good. I feel like, why are they an hour session?

Sometimes I don't show up to things because they're an hour. I just don't have enough time. Yeah, 30-minute sessions are great. I mean, people who can get 30 minutes into this stuff, it's great. I mean, I can spend 15 minutes with some of these people and it would be great for them. Yeah. Just working on positional stuff. And, you know, and, you know, most, like I said, most of the people I see, though, they have a pretty, pretty, you know, they have back pain, hip pain, foot pain, whatever, something. They're usually, for my clientele, they're usually somewhere between 35 and, you know, 65 with, you know, kind of skewing more towards the older individuals.

But some of them are pretty elite cyclists, you know. They're pretty elite athletes and they still have, they have, you know, they still have these problems. You know, they just need to get taken care of and they get up and they're like, oh, I feel great. Let's go do it. So they'll go out and, you know. Hashtag grind. And, yeah, they'll start, hashtag start grinding. So they'll start, you know. Well, you're talking about, you're talking about last time how sometimes doing less, getting these people to do less is more in these cases, right? Yeah. Now there's your Paul Rudd. Yeah. That's right. That is my Paul Rudd.

That is exactly the point we started talking about last time. Yeah. It's so funny because, like, I think I said this last time, if I didn't, it's so true. Like, I've been in Pilates classes. One of the things I tell instructors when we're certifying them, I'm like, you know, we're telling you to back off this, back off this. And sometimes we go a little overboard. And I'm like, you still got to work them out. You don't want them sitting there breathing the entire time. If they're not getting it right, understand Pilates is forgivable, and that if they make a mistake, it's not the end of the world.

Just have them keep going. They'll eventually catch up and get it, but they're not at risk for injuring. As long as they're not at risk for injuring themselves, I mean, you know, it takes a while, you know, when you're going from cognitive to the associative stage to the automatic stage. You know, you're going to make mistakes, and you've got to be okay with that. So don't expect – one of the things we have a problem with, you know, with Pilates instructors, particularly from a dance background, is they have such a good eye for movement that if you don't do things perfect the first time, they stop you.

And they're like, no, no, no, let's modify it with this. You can modify it to the point where they're not even moving, and you're like, all right, this is – let them make a mistake. So it's funny that you say that. When I saw that movie, that's what I thought. Well, it's funny you say that thing about the eye for movement and just overcorrecting that. Actually, I had a new hire over here that I got in the other day, and part of his interview process was he had to show me how to do an exercise that I had already kind of coached him into how to do. So mainly he's seen retention and whatnot. They need to show someone else how to do an exercise as well.

And this guy usually – like working with him so much, if you give him more than like two cues at a time, like all of a sudden his movement just turns to crap. So this guy surprisingly, he did it well. And I'm like, well, that's not right. So then I'm like, hey, can you correct this? I just tried to nitpick a couple things with him, and all of a sudden he started moving really poorly. He looked like a worm trying to deadlift. And so it was amazing to see. But you're right. Sometimes you just got to let people go through the process a little bit, you know, as long as it's not harming them. Yeah, as long as they're safe.

I mean, like, you know, you've got to relax a little bit, you know, as movement professionals on some of those things because, you know, they've got to learn it. I mean, you're going to make mistakes at first. And there's only so much modifying you can do, you know. And, you know, so their bodies will find the stability. You just want to be safe with it, you know, as they're going through that progression. And I think that's the key there. You know, so give them a good workout. Keep them safe. But understand there's a room for error that's okay while they're learning it. And that's one of the things that – the reason I say that is because, you know, when I was teaching Pilates at the beginning, I was a little too picky with that.

And I feel like I was like, no, no, no, you're doing too much. Just lay there. Just like tall runs. You've got to do something. Yeah. So here's another question. I'm just digging some off the Internet as we talk. Do you have to be flexible to do Pilates? Nope. Does it increase flexibility? Yes. Okay. How flexible do you want them? A normal range of motion. Okay. You know, I want them to be able to rotate their thoracic. That tends to be a big problem. Okay. You know, and so can they rotate their thoracic? Mid-back, everybody. What's that? I'm clarifying. Thoracic is mid-back. Yeah. So thoracic spine, 12 vertebraes, and then the rib cage, the ribs.

Spoken like an anatomy professor, I say mid-back, and you break down into 12 segments. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. I'm blowing up the anatomy manual right now, and I'm rewriting it for students. Yeah. And actually, that's one area where they do have a tough time with. The thoracic? Yeah. But they can get all the cellular mechanisms all day because they're all biology students. But then you start throwing in bones and ligaments and joints and muscles on top of that. They have a really tough time with the musculoskeletal system. Hmm. So, you know. Can you say skeletal again? Skeletal? Potato? Is that a thing?

Is that a dialect thing from Virginia? Hey, Virginia's a great state, bro. Okay, so... Wait. If you're going to talk about Virginia, you know, they just put in a rural king, this place called the Rural King, in the city where I'm from. Do you know what this place is? A rural king? Rural. R-U-R-A-L. Rural king. Yeah, like Burger King, but rural city. Apparently, there's like a big protest to keep them from stopping the cell of mini pigs. But there's no protest to keep them from stopping the cell of assault rifles, which they sell. And so I'm in there looking at... At Rural King? Rural King. So this is like Bass Pro or Cabela, as I'm guessing.

Man, listen, where I'm from is a geographical oddity, because I live an hour from... I'm from a place that's an hour from West Virginia, an hour from Tennessee, an hour from North Carolina. And it's pretty close to that. It's a little bit further away to Kentucky. So it's down in the Blue Ridge Mountains and near coal mining country. So the Rural King is the new store in town. Huh, the Rural King. Wait, so why don't they want you to sell little pigs? Because is that like... I have no idea. I haven't been there. My brother was home visiting my parents and took a picture of it and sent it to me.

He said, hey, man, I went in there and they actually have free coffee. Of course. He said, hey, what's going on? But then I looked at an ad and it was like, you get your ARs here. And I was like, hey, that's a salt rifle, brother. So, sorry for that. It's your podcast. No, I'm okay with that. I'm okay. We're winging this today. I told you that. Yeah, yeah. On the fly. So, you said neutral spine a couple times in the beginning. Yeah. Can you explain that further in a non-anatomical way? Yeah. So, just the natural curves of the spine. You know, once a body is fully developed in a perfect world, this would be the most shock-absorbing position that the spine could be in.

The start position, the reference position of the spine when we talk about a basic anatomical position, slight curve, I mean, slight, you know, we call it a lordotic curve through the cervical spine, slight kyphotic curve through the thoracic, and a slight lordotic curve through the lumbar, just the natural curves of the spine. And the spine, you know, everybody's spine is a little different. It's more of an ideal concept than it is a reality, right? We just use it as a baseline. We can't make too much of it either in movement. We have to be pretty careful with what we apply neutral this, neutral that to when we talk about form, because, you know, the reality is, is a lot of people just can't get into that position comfortably, and it may not be best for them.

So, but it's a reference point. Well, I've heard the theory, too, that throughout life, we don't always have a neutral spine, or we don't have a quote-unquote correct position. So, when we step out of those parameters of, like, so if we're doing all of our training and rehab within that position, when we experience real life, we have no control or awareness of that altered position. So, we're going to injure ourselves. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. You've got to get into several different positions and load it and move with it, and I think that's one of the things that Pilates does really well, is you may do 50, 60 exercises in an hour session, right?

And it's all, you're on your stomach, you're on your back, you're on your side, you're extending, you're flexing, you're rotating, you're doing all sorts of things, and it really gets you neuromuscularly connected. That mind-body, you know, as far as, like, getting control of your muscles and joints, that's what it's all about. And so, I don't know if that's kind of what you were speaking to, but that's what jumped in my mind. Well, I just think about, like, I mean, I've heard the analogy of wanting your spine like a supple, young tree, like a sapling. Okay. You know, so it has the ability to bend and flex and so on, but, you know, it doesn't break, really, because it has the resistance to it.

Yeah. In contrast, like, a dried, old, dead sapling, I guess, wouldn't have any give to it, you know? Yeah. But it doesn't mean it doesn't go through those positions. You got it, yeah. You've got to go through those positions. You've got to load them. You've got to articulate sequentially. That's a big thing that needs to be focused on, right, is sequential articulation. What I mean by that is, you know, moving one vertebra at a time sort of thing when you're doing a roll up or a roll down, making sure that the sequence, you know, if you want to flex your hip and then roll your spine or roll your spine and then flex your hip, that that happens in sequence.

Those are big deals. And that's what makes a good instructor from a poor instructor is, like, a poor instructor will look and see a bad quality move and not say anything or just try and add more load to a move that's poor quality, whereas a good instructor will come in and modify it so that they're getting the desired response, whatever that is. You know, I feel like all exercise methods, though, should be focusing on that sort of thing. I think Pilates does a great job of really bringing it to the forefront, but probably, you know, you find a good exercise instructor in a number of methods who are going to draw attention to that, you know, quality.

Yeah. I definitely feel there's, I feel like differentiating sometimes and creating blocks of time where you have someone, the patient, the athlete, figure out, like, say they're spending an hour in Pilates and they're working on segmental movement and deep abdominal and so on, and then you shift them into their strength training, they, it's a whole different focus during that time. Not to say you can't integrate the two things together, but I think when you're, when you're spending too much time queuing all these different things within, say, either, say they're squatting or they're lunging, like, they won't catch them all.

You almost have to like create different classes, like in college, you know, and then integrate them over time. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I like to teach my, uh, my clients is, is how to feel their pelvic diaphragm engage. And, um, you know, I may not cue it on every exercise, but I, if I see a rigid move, it may be a cue that I want to use. So try and lift up on your pelvic floor a little bit more, maybe a cue that I use to provide a little bit extra stability for a move. Do I want them thinking about that at all times? Absolutely not. I want them to just move. But if I see something poorly happening, I may cue it and I want them to know how to do it and what I'm talking about so that they can kind of, you know, understand what I want them to do.

Um, so, so drawing, drawing attention to those little idiosyncrasies and those little details, right? Um, is important, um, throughout a workout, but it's, you, you gotta be careful cause you don't want them to be obsessed with every little detail and you want them to just move and not think of it. And then you use those little new, those little details to help cue them into correct position so that they can just not think about it and move, you know? Yeah. No, I totally agree. Um, uh, I, I don't think we touched on yet. You did mention a lot of different devices and floor work with Pilates. Um, can you explain the difference between floor, the benefits of floor versus machine based, and then tell me about the different machines and why you'd use them, why someone would need them actually.

Yeah. So in my living room, I have these two specialized reformers are called V2 max reform. And they're kind of like the best of everything. So it's a reformer and a tower, which is a part of a piece called the Cadillac. Um, and then I have a Pilates chair and then I've got a lot of small balls, bands and a coffee machine. Okay. Um, so do you see the coffee machine, kind of a coffee machine, but with no compliment coffee. Yeah. I bet you got some ice cream. We can hit on that later. Uh, we need to talk about my artisan ice cream. Okay. I got a, I got a batch coming up. You're going to love. Yeah.

That bourbon cherry, the bourbon cherry. And then I'm doing chocolate this week. Hmm. Yeah. So anyhow, um, so the thing is, is if you're strong on the mat, right, if you can do a Pilates mat workout, the mat work sequence. Okay. If you can do that workout on an advanced level, there's a, there's a, there's a essential, there's an intermediate level and there's an advanced level for mat work. If you can do that mat workout on an advanced level, I'm going to almost guarantee that you can do all the other pieces to an advanced level. Okay. With the exception of, with the exception of reformer, you need, you may need a bit more extremity strength.

Um, I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet if you're not strong there, a lot of times we use the machines to get you strong without the equipment. So, um, you know, if you got tight hip flexes, I think is a common one, you know, may not be the best thing for you to be doing like bicycle sit-ups and, you know, lower and lift with your legs, not supported by something, you know, which you see a lot of people do because they think they're strengthening their core. Um, and you see their abs just bulging out, which is a sure sign that, Hey, your transversus abdominis is popping and your back is in a destabilized position.

That's not good. So it sounds like a great video. Again, you doing bicycle sit-ups. Hey, they're going to be coming out. These videos are coming out. Um, yeah, so, you know, you, you, you use these pieces of equipment to kind of get muscles to calm down and relax. So I like to use the straps. I like to use the jump board. I like to use what's called the crossbow. Um, there's a, uh, you know, there's a, something called a push through bar on the, on the tower. That's great for working on shoulder girdle and scapular stability, those sorts of things. Um, so I like to use the equipment to get them strong.

So they're, they're strong without the equipment. Um, so, so you have to use, so the equipment is kind of like a precursor to floor. Is that what I'm hearing? Uh, somewhat. I mean, you know, if you, if you're, you know, if you can do it, it isn't, it isn't. I mean, once you get to the advanced level, all this stuff is just really hard. Um, but if I'm going to choose, if I was going to choose one and say, if you're strong here, you're probably going to be strong everywhere. It would be the mat. If you're strong on the mat, you're probably going to be strong on the reformer. Um, but you know, the, uh, you know, the reformer, um, is probably client's favorite.

It's called, it's the horse of Pilates, right? It's what people pay to come in and take the classes on. And it's a very nice piece of equipment. And it's, you know, I use the reformer and the Cadillac the most or the tower, uh, the most, um, and we use it to correct a lot of movement impairments the way I see them. And, um, and so, but there's different exercises on the reformer than on the mat. That's another thing. It's like, there's a whole, you can do over like 500 exercises on the reformer. I mean, there's a whole different set of exercises on the, on the reformer than on the mat. There's variations of the mat on the reformer, but, um, you've got a ton more variety when you start incorporating the reformer.

And then there's a ton more when you incorporate the chair and then, uh, you know, then the tower and everything else. So it just gives you a lot of variety. And then, you know, you have the option of loading or unloading with the springs and the straps. So, well, so for beginners to come in. And cause I know some of these people probably have not tried Pilates yet. Like where would, where would the ideal pathway be? I know that in classes where you only have what, five, six, seven towers or, or reformers, you're not going to be able to see that many people. So some, I'm guessing that the floor classes are cheaper.

They probably are more desirable to beginners. Uh, no, no. Beginners want to come in and get on the reformer. I have two. They want to be on the reformer first. Yeah, I've got two reformers and, um, that's all I teach. I only teach one to two people. I just, you know, I don't like to teach big group classes. Um, not that they're not good. It's just not my style. I worked much better and I can focus much better on one or two people. I can kind of control the atmosphere a little bit better. Um, I think, you know, it's just what I'm interested in doing. Um, I know what you're really interested in doing.

You're really interested in that ice cream. Oh, I got that ice cream freezer. I mean, my, my art is an ice cream. It's ready to explode. Okay. So here's, here's a, wait, what are they, what's it called again? Um, yeah, because where I'm from, that's actually what people call me. And my name's Tim, but people, you know, my, my, my dad's from Pittsburgh and my mom's from Florida. So I didn't pick up on a heavy Southern accent, but people from that area, which I'm very proud to be from, by the way, um, you know, I go into school, my coaches growing up, you know, it was always T yum, get over here, you know, and, uh, how does, I don't get how the yum has any correlation to your name.

T yum, where's your brother? That's just, what was your brother's nickname? I started thinking about it. I'm like, Oh, I can call the ice, you know, yum as in yummy, yummy ice cream, T yums and a play on, Hey, this is, I'm from this part of the South. And, uh, when people, when people get that from the South, they'd be like, Oh yeah, I know what a T yum is. No, no. They would just be like T um, they wouldn't get it. And I'd be like, listen to the way that you pronounce my name. And they'd be like, T oh, Oh, okay. I get, Oh, is it Tim? I just can't say M. You know, my mother, you know, she, she picked up that country accent, you know, as I was getting older and she's got a thick, heavy country accent now.

And that's how she says my name. T um, you know, huh? And he ums ice cream. Interesting. Okay. I love it. I know. I know you've been telling me, but I've, I've only seen one picture. I mean, I think you're BSing me half the time because I've only seen one picture of this ice cream and you're always BSing me about stuff. I'm going to go out on the lake on a standup paddle board with my shirt off and I'm going to take a selfie with one of those huge sticks. Make sure your TA's off. Make that, make that wreck just pop. There's going to be a little ice cream cone on there. An ice cream cone selfie, selfie stick at the end of the stick too.

Why not? Why not, buddy? Well, everyone should be looking out for TMs over in Austin first. Lake Austin is where you're going to hit number one. And now I'm going to, I'm thinking I'm going to like get a cart and go down to rainy street at like 2 a.m. and just start scooping ice cream. And then, you know, give them the, by the way, I'm almost, I'm also a professor up at UT and teach Pilates. Stop by and see me anytime. You're going to do Pilates within the, uh, within your office hours. No, I do have a Pilates mat though in my office and a massage table. But all the other professors tend to come in and, you know, when I'm not there and they, they end up sleeping on that.

They just lay on it. Yeah, they, I mean, they worked their tail off. So the systems physiology professor here, she's like, oh, Tim, that is the best thing about your office is the, uh, you know, the, um, the, the massage table. I'm surprised they gave you your own office. Why? I'd give you a water closet, man. A water closet? Yeah. Bathroom. A bathroom? I'd give you a stall in the public bathroom. You're just mad because you look like Scott Farkas from A Creepy Story. War, no, Warwick. Yeah, Willard Warwick. That guy's a champ and he played a great leprechaun. Warwick Davis. Oh, Warwick Davis, sorry.

I still got him up on my, on my search bar. Oh man. You're going to have to connect that link to your podcast. Yeah, I, I will. I think it's the only time that I've had to put pictures like that on. Um, no, I'll, I'll put it, I'll put it. Uh, okay. So we are coming, we're coming towards an hour here. Uh, what do you want to recap on Pilates? Cause I know that. Well, I think a lot, just understand that Pilates is a method, uh, an exercise method that is a repertoire of exercises. So that relies on about five basic principles. Uh, number one, the way you breathe, you know, breathing and focus. And, you know, we go off about the respiratory system and the benefits of proper breath patternings and movement.

And then number two, you know, your pelvic placement, the position your pelvis is in, um, you know, thoracic, um, rib cage placement. Number three, number four, the scapular stability and, and, you know, your shoulder girdle where that, where that is, which is part, you know, your scapula is part of your shoulder girdle. Um, and then your head and cervical placement and how those things connect on every single exercise. So it's very much a detail oriented, um, as far as each movement goes, you know, we focus on finite things that are going on. So where's your head at? Where's, you know, and what's relaxed versus what you should be using.

And a good instructor should be able to cue you into a good quality move without you getting frustrated with yourself and be able to modify you in a good position. So all these things to focus on, you know, your core, right? The deep transversus abdominis, internal oblique in your, the deep spinal muscles that go along with that and how you utilize your extremities with that being engaged. Um, but really, you know, out, you know, those are the foundations of Pilates and then within Pilates, as far as the exercises go, they're just a series of exercises that you do on several different pieces of, um, of equipment or on a map.

So that's what I would say. And it's part of that mind body, um, exercise. You love that mind body, that word mind body. My whole PhD is built on mind body stuff. Mind body, man. Mind body. You know, I've, I've gotten into huge heated arguments about the anatomy and neuromuscular, you know, principles with, with, uh, my advisors and, and professors, you know, and then five minutes later, they're in my office, you know, asking for me to help them with the back pain, uh, something they were just arguing against. Yeah. They want, you get that in academia all the time. Oh, I'm sure. Well, everyone wants to prove their point, but I'm sure the truth really lies somewhere between everybody's points.

Yeah. The blends. Um, well, cool then. All right. We will, I'll put some of the, the information you spoke about on the show notes as well as a connection to T yums. Maybe we can get a selfie of you holding an ice cream cone. T yums is still in its developmental stage, but you're going to have, so here's the thing. I know I'll put your Instagram in there. Cause you got a couple of things. I'm going to put it, I'm, I'm putting it. You can't stop me. Okay. Well, you know, okay. It's going up. It's not that good. I don't have good, you know, I don't have good selfies. I do have a few on there. If I'm putting Warwick Davis on mine, I'm pretty sure you can put a selfie with an ice cream cone on a paddleboard in Lake Austin on there.

Yeah. I need to get a standup paddleboard. Yeah. Shirts off. Sun's out. Guns out, bro. Yeah. There's a lot of muscle T's around these parts. A lot of muscle T's. You know how you like those muscle T's. I love a good muscle T. Okay. So you want to hang on there and I'll, I'll close the podcast out here. Okay. Um, yeah. And, uh, if anybody has a question about Pilates, you can give them my website. Oh yeah. Which I forgot. Well, yeah, we started arguing. What is your website? What's your contact? Uh, just my email is fine. My website is terrible. Um, it's, uh, www.timfleischer.com or timfleischer, tim.fleischer at gmail.com.

I think you need to spell Fleischer. Yeah. It's F-L-E-I-S as in Sam, H-E-R. Yeah. At gmail. Does it follow the I before E except F or C? Uh, it's German, man. It means butcher in German. All right. Yeah. Well, you sure butchering stuff. I don't know how that deals with the I after E except after C kind of deal. But, um, you know, usually people try to spell with the C and I always joke we left that in Germany, you know. Okay. Hold on a sec there. Okay. Yeah. I'll hold on. All right, everybody. That was Tim Fleischer. Uh, thank him by going on to his Instagram and asking for ice cream tea yums when you get a chance.

Uh, if you're looking for the show notes on this podcast is at p2sportscare.com slash podcast. And again, we're going to have everything, all the links that you need on there on that page. Uh, and I think that's kind of it. We're going to go through today. I, if you guys do have questions or suggestions of other people you want me to interview, uh, jump on, tell me, uh, go onto the website. There is a speak pipe button on the first page there, or you can just go onto any social media. I'm very active on Instagram as well. I think some of you are finding that on YouTube, I do answer some questions.

So just let you know, if you do, if you do email me or you send that voicemail, I want you to give me the ability to actually share your question on air if you want that. Cause remember it does help everybody out and, uh, I can, I want to help everybody out on this. I don't want to just do one-on-one stuff. So let's really, uh, get the education of everybody to be increased. So, um, thanks again. And thanks for listening, subscribing and rating this on, uh, iTunes. Talk to you guys soon.