Why your back pain only comes in the morning and what to do

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Go check it out. You'll love it. Now onto the podcast. You're listening to the Restoring Human Movement podcast, where movement experts discuss the latest evidence-based practices to help you and your clients move with mastery. And now, your host, Dr. Sebastian Gonzales. Hey everyone, this is Sebastian with the Restoring Human Movement podcast. Thank you for joining Movement Movement. This is your first time, Michelle. This is episode 254. So you missed a lot. This is a very lay public friendly podcast, and we try to keep all of the technical talk to a minimum, but still give you really good information. For the last 10 episodes, I think we've been doing mainly low back, hip, pelvis, groin type of stuff, musculoskeletal problems that you may have, and some easy intervention tools that you can use, as well as really dissecting down, making it easy for you to figure out how to actually recover from something like this.

We have on Dr. Mary Lou Garcia again to help us talk about the, why does my back pain only come in the morning type of phenomenon, which is really common. Right, Mary Lou? Yeah. Actually, it's one of the most common things I think people come in with, you know. And then they're like, how did you know? It hurt when I sneeze. Yeah. So someone the other day, actually, they said, I don't know. I don't know if it really hurts when I sneeze. And they were bending over the brush or teeth, and they sneezed. They said, oh, yeah, that way. It shot down my leg for sure now, but it wasn't, it hadn't until that point. But yeah, it needed a little bit more oomph behind it before they actually felt it.

Yeah. So everybody, we're going to cover some really good Q&As today and try to give you much useful information as we can today. Obviously, anything we talk about today is not medical information, and it's not a smoking gun. Just because you have pain with sneezing, bending over, an issue standing leg is not 100% indicator of anything. It's just information that could be used by somebody to help you out to figure out what to do. Mary Lou is a good friend of mine. She's in Teston, California. So if you guys do have problems in your intestine, Orange County, she might be a good resource for you too. All the links will be in the description. So Mary Lou, what do you want to talk about first with low back pain that only comes in the morning? What's maybe a common story that you hear from people? I think the most common is when you come across that question and just asking somebody like, hey, so what time of the day do you feel it the most? Is it morning, afternoon, night? And then when they say morning, you say, okay, well, how long does that last? Is it only about 15 minutes, 30 minutes? I feel like that's a common thing where they're like, oh yeah, it goes away after a little while. It doesn't stick with them. So I think that's a good starting point. Yeah. They usually, I feel like it's really common.

They'll say it's, you know, it's really weird. It really, it's around 30 minutes or so. I'm super stiff or it's like stabbing pain every morning when I get out of bed. And then I must just kind of warm up because it goes away and I feel good all day. But then next day it's like Groundhog Day. It comes back again. It's been three weeks like this. So what the heck, you know? Yeah. I think that is the common thing and exactly what they say. Oh, just, I think once I warm up, it, you know, kind of settles it and then it goes away. Right. So do you think there's any merit to actually things warming up and the body moving around or like, what do you think is going on there?

I think it's, you know, in a sense it is kind of warming up, but it's the movement, right? So people actually get up and start walking. And a lot of times, you know, that'll feel better on the back when you're out walking is more what it is, you know, rather than being in that like position. But yeah. Yeah. Something I like to ask them a lot of times is, you know, when you wake up in the morning and you don't actually move yet, like you're kind of like in disbelief, it's the morning, you open your eyes and you're staring at the ceiling. Does it hurt then? Or does it hurt when you actually try to get out of bed? So, cause some people, they have no pain whatsoever when they actually open their eyes and they can lay there like a zombie for 10 minutes and they're like, Oh, this feels so good. And as soon as they move out of bed and they have a problem.

Yeah. So more like the transitioning from like laying down to going to sit up or stand up kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good point because it gives you more information as to like, I guess how bad it is. Right. I feel like if you're in that, okay, it's only painful with movements, then, you know, you can find a way to settle it down with those movements. You know, or bracing techniques. So if they can't really get out of bed, like say it hurts only after they start moving, then what is a, like, what's something easy that they can do to make that easier for them? You know, uh, you're saying like take, when they get out before they get out of bed. Uh, like when they're getting out of bed, cause, uh, it feels okay when they open their eyes, but when they start moving out of bed, they're like, I can't, I can't get out of bed without this problem happening. So how am I, what do I do? You know, what does Mary Lou got to coach me to do? Uh, I would go for bracing strategies, you know, not like a hard brace. And when I say like a brace, Oh, are you there? Yeah, I see. Oh, okay. I think I got cut out a little bit. Um, you know, not like, you know, totally bearing down bracing, but like a little bit of stiffness through like the core just to help get up and, you know, um, turning and stuff like that. So, right. McGill talks about that a lot, as far as like getting some stiffness, a little bit of bracing, um, preparing your body for that movement rather than just like, okay, let me just twist and, you know, crawl out of bed, all sloppy and crazy. So yeah, I think those are the safest way to do it.

So Mary Lou's referencing, uh, Stuart McGill, uh, who wrote both low back disorders and, uh, back mechanic, some really good resources. Actually the back mechanics, a good user resource for everybody too. Um, does he actually talk about like what the bracing mechanic does? Like you're talking about stiffening, just stiffen up a little bit before you move, right? Yeah. Yeah. Why do people need to stiffen up in order to move? Like, is that something else to do forever or what is it facilitating? Um, yeah, I wouldn't, I definitely wouldn't say do that forever. Right. Where that's a misconception.

People think like, Oh, they've got to walk around like a robot and be like super stiff, you know, forever. Um, but just for when you're having some of those flare ups or that pain in the morning, then that's a good thing of like, okay, creating a little bit of that bracing technique. And to me, I like to explain it to people as instead of, uh, you know, you might be using a little bit more of the actual like joints and spine itself rather than like the muscles. So use the muscles. That's what they're made for rather than putting all that, like, you know, workload on the spine, you know, disc itself. Right. Yeah. That makes good sense. So you're, you're kind of like, you're kind of facilitating the muscles to work a little bit before you actually initiate the movement.

So, and for some people they'll do that automatically and others, you kind of have to think about it a little bit or retrain that like automatic response back into your body. It typically happened. Like, so the muscles will some, like typically they, they facilitate some type of support before you move most of the time, like in a normal setting. Yeah, definitely. But like, once you have, you know, a painful movement, it might change the way you're moving or, you know, maybe the response is just not, you know, automatic for some people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think bracing is a, I think it's a pretty adequate strategy, at least for getting, uh, doing things like getting out of bed. The other, the other thing you could do too is, is consider that maybe the way they're getting out of bed is, is the actual trigger, you know, something like, um, uh, I know they, they coach, I think they could a little bit more geriatric populations. It's like, you can't do a sit up to get out of bed, but maybe you're rolling to the edge of the bed, sliding your legs off and using your hand to push yourself up, um, and keeping the spine a little bit more rigid in that process or, or kind of as a quote unquote plank in the process might be a little bit easier on the spine than doing a sit up.

Yeah, definitely. Especially if you don't have like that core strength already, right. Then using your arms as you kind of like roll over to push yourself up is a really good strategy. So even getting up off the ground, right. That way a lot of people will do that. They just kind of like roll over and then come up. I always think that's a good way to coach people off the ground. If you're like, ah, and you see them struggling, you know? Yeah. You know, funny. Um, so I was looking at, um, uh, Boyle's book yesterday and we were looking up all the core section. Right. And so probably about like eight exercises deep into the, some of the core progressions. There was like the, like the long levered sit up to get up. And so it was legs out in front of you. Like you're stretching your hamstrings and just do, and just sit up to get up in like the, uh, the suggestion was really don't do it that much. Do it no more than 10 times and then do it so slow that you don't need momentum. And so I tried it. I'm like, this is impossible. Like nobody's holding my feet.

This is impossible, but yeah, that'd be hard. I mean, if you're using the momentum of your legs and like your body to like swing yourself up, that's what you're like describing, right? If you kind of like leaning back and then just kind of popping up. Um, yeah, that, that'd be, that'd be really hard to do it in like slow-mo. Yeah. Yeah. Like the matrix going slow on the way down. Yeah. Um, which actually brings another contest. Yeah. Yeah. Like breaking an egg in your hand, um, which is impossible to do. So everybody should try that. If you want a lesson in what full tension is try to put a raw egg in your hand and break it, it's almost impossible.

Yeah. Much more difficult than it seems. Yeah. Um, so the setup thing actually, uh, brings in somebody actually asked me this earlier this week is they said, so, uh, would you prefer me to get out of bed by, um, by doing the role that you taught or do you, would you read like they were getting out of the bed, a sit up originally, and they realized that hurt. So instead they would do like a and like, they would like throw it, like violently throw their body into a sit up using momentum. And they said, this is how I've been getting out of bed. And it feels okay. I'm like, Oh, okay. I mean, yeah. Well, I mean, and even if they're using that, like, you know, the, the sound, right. They're doing that. Then they're using that bracing strategy, right. They don't realize it, but it's like, and then they get up. So now they braced before they even move. Yeah. That works.

So how old are you now, Mary Lou? I'm 37. So have you, have you, when you get off the ground now, have you started doing? Uh, depends how much, uh, I've been working out. So occasionally, yeah, it's this weekend we had a softball tournament and after like four games, definitely started feeling a little bit of that where I was like, Oh, okay. Like I'm kind of sore. So yeah. Yeah. Depending on the day. So that's not the bracing. That's just complaining. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So based upon what you typically see with someone with morning back pain that goes away within an hour or so, what are some other maybe signs and symptoms that you see related to it that are common findings other than maybe pain with coughing or sneezing?

Um, typically maybe putting their shoes on in the morning might be painful or, uh, kind of bending over. So usually it's with that like forward bending. So similar to what you were describing with that sit up, right? So that movement seems to cause some pain, right? So they go to put their shoes on and they're like sitting down, bringing their foot up to them. Right. So they're kind of like bending forward or, um, they go to pick something up off the ground and you know, that bending forward movement might bother them as well. So those, those are typically kind of go hand in hand with that kind of, you know, those symptoms. Yeah. I've heard putting on your socks and shoes. And then I'm actually surprised when people show me when they put on their socks, I say, how do you do it? And they're like standing on one leg, bringing their foot up to their face. And I'm like, dude, you don't like just kneel on the floor when you put socks on? Like, so that it's the forward bend again with that same thing with pants. Some people have actually figured out at some point that actually, if they, if they put their pants in their hands and roll back onto their back very quickly and put their legs up in the air, they can swoop their pants on without it hurting too much. Um, but yeah, washing dishes, brushing teeth, there's a lot of that slight forward bend doesn't have to mean aggressive round, but it's just enough of a forward bend at the, at the spine where it's just, it just, it's the spine's not tolerant of that at the, at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's interesting. You brought up the washing dishes thing. I had a patient recently brought that up and was like, you know, like, cause you know, you're asked like, well, when else do you feel it? When is this? And they were like, oh, sometimes when I'm washing dishes, if I've got a lot of dishes and I'm like, okay, well, where do you typically stand? Right. When you're, what do you think? And then she's like, Hmm, that's a good question. You know, and just told her like, okay, well move closer to it. Like, you know, push your belly into the countertop, like as you're washing the dishes a little bit.

And I was like, you know, even standing up right now, if you put your arms way out, right. Does that bother it? And oh yeah, that is kind of, okay. So bring your hands a little closer. You know, so did you, did you accuse her being a aquaphobic sort of water? Just got to splash it all over the front of you and you're okay. Yeah. You know, you wash dishes, right? When you walk away and there's a line of water on your belly button area. So, um, I've heard another good one too. I think it was from Philip Snow where he said there's a bottom drawer. Um, usually when, you know, people have all those little utility doors next to the sink and you said, slide the bottom one out and put one of your feet on it.

And it helps them hinge at the hips versus at the spine. Hmm. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. I hadn't heard that one before. So, um, what do you, so what is it? What's the most common maybe diagnosis that you see with this? Uh, just cause everyone's wondering, well, I have all this now. What is it? Yeah. Um, so typically if you, you know, you have the, the morning pain, that'll last for, uh, what, 15 to 30 minutes, you get up, you walk around bending forward, um, coughing, sneezing is bothersome. Those are typically, um, pointing more toward like some kind of disc aggravation. Doesn't necessarily mean disc herniation, right? I think that's where people get, um, kind of confused on it or they assume it's a herniation, but you know, for whatever reason, there's some inflammation going on in that disc and, um, you know, it's, it's not liking that movement. Yeah. Yeah. And I think usually if it was a larger grade disc irritation, that was a little bit more, uh, let's say kind of irrit, uh, I don't want to say damage cause that'll, you don't improve too, but so there's, there's a sliding scale of these disc injuries or irritations. And if it was one of the larger ones, you probably wouldn't only be feeling in the morning, like you would feel it all day. Um, yeah. Or you'd have more severe symptoms going along with it where you might have radiating pain, things like that. You'll feel it in other areas instead of just the back area. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. So like normally these things, like this is a lower grade thing. I know we know it's painful. Um, and it's kind of frustrating to have it for, you know, days to weeks to months. And, um, a lot of times it'll settle itself, uh, quite honestly, at least that I've found, but most of the time people do not require anything aggressive for treatment or surgery or medications or injections. And, um, usually some very easy ways to, uh, rehab the area with simple home exercises. Um, it actually tends to work out faster than people think like, although even they've had it for a couple of weeks, they can, they can actually feel better in just a handful of days. So what's your experience with, um, uh, with, with treatment with the area? Um, like you said, I mean, if you can, you know, coach somebody through the movement and, you know, kind of teach them how to like, you know, let's say I always like your analogy of picking the scab, right. Coach them not to pick the scab all day. Then it lets it settle down. It starts to actually heal, right. The body is going to heal over time if you give it a chance to. So, um, I think coaching people into just knowing what it is that they're doing throughout the day. That's like picking the scab, right. And it doesn't mean again, not to ever do those movements, but I think that's one of the biggest things. Like if people are aware of it, then they can actually start making some changes and then they can use the movements to help settle down their pain throughout the day. Yeah. Uh, and I think it's, um, probably easiest to address, uh, some of the treatment or home exercises, uh, usually in a time where people aren't really in pain in a rush in the morning. Um, cause I think a lot of things that they do throughout the day can contribute to this problem. It's just not currently, uh, presenting itself throughout the remainder of the day because the morning is a really, really, really susceptible time for, uh, having the disc irritation present itself. Um, simple things like not sitting so much going for more walks. Um, if you're sitting into a lazy boy chair, maybe get something like a hard chair to sit on to make sure that you actually have to have a little bit better posture in it. Uh, I don't like blaming posture for everything, but in this case, posture would be an important factor for a couple weeks. Um, what do you think? Yeah, no, I think that's, that's really important. And I, yeah, I like to stress that, you know, concept too. It's like, okay, yeah, posture is not going to like make or break everything, but when you have something that's bothering you, just be a little bit more aware, you know, and then after it heals up, then it's okay. You know? Um, but as long as you're, you know, people ask like, well, how should I sleep or how should I, you know, I'm like, well, you should be able to sleep however you want and not have pain, right? If your body is resilient, you know, but you've got to build up some of that resiliency or, you know, you should be able to sit however you like. Um, and not just, you know, kind of be robotic is like what we were referring to earlier. So don't, you know, walk around and brace like that all day long, but you know, uh, just, just have a little bit of free movement in there. Um, You're covering some good points there. Like, um, it'll be probably a thing for another podcast to come one day, but although we're kind of like given like, Oh, it's not, we're not really saying it's not big, a big deal, but it's easy to solve, you know, don't get neurotic about posture. Don't think like you're a robot is because people actually, we have actually seen a fair amount of people who they tend to become neurotic about posture and fearful that their spine is all of a sudden, you know, super weak and they they're quite honestly, they're afraid to move. Um, I remember this one girl came in, she said, because of what I feel my, like my spine is what it's like. I kind of want to, I wish I was a mannequin basically. And so she's just afraid to move, which doesn't make the situation easier for, for her or anybody helping her. Um, but I totally get the concept of being afraid too. Yeah. I think in those cases, um, you know, unfortunately, you know, the, the person had maybe waited too long to get help or the, you know, maybe the right help, let's say. Um, cause they might've been trying to find, you know, trial and error and different things, but they had, you know, been dealing with those symptoms for so long that it may be changed, you know, and put that fear into them of feeling like, Oh, I have to move this way because that's the only way that they found a solution. Right. And then eventually like, it's hard to now break those patterns if they've been doing it for like six months to a year. So I think, um, it's a good idea that if, you know, if anybody's feeling, you know, that pain in the morning, uh, pain with coughing, sneezing, all these other things, like, you know, like Seb said, there is help and you can, you know, settle it down pretty quickly, but you have to take those, you know, those steps to actually do it. Don't let it go forever because you can now create other issues with it. You know?

Yeah. And I don't think that like, as you were saying, I don't, the longer it takes, the harder it is. It's not like it's impossible. Um, I remember one time I wrote this article where it was about tendons. And so I think I had mentioned timelines and I think I said, after about a year, you kind of waited too long. And so someone contacted me and they read that and they had waited over a year and they said, did you, so there's no hope for me. And I said, Oh shit, I, I need to reward this, you know? So, so there is, there is hope for people who have had it for longer, but there's just other complicating factors, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely don't want to make it sound like, yeah, it's, it's hopeless. There's nothing you can do. It just takes a little bit longer to, you know, get, let's say that pain relief, you know, and then break all these other habits of walking around robotically or things like that. Yeah. It's like if, if like, I can think I can bake a chicken without really having to work too hard, but a brisket kind of takes a little, there's a lot of factors in it, you know? So you just, you're going to make me hungry. You become a little bit more like a brisket. It's just, it's hard to perfect that brisket. So, uh, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Oh, Hey, I got a smoker recently now. Have I told you that? No, no. A brisket apparently takes like 13 hours. So unless you're going to eat super late, you're forced to wake up early. Oh yeah. So no, but they come out really, really good. We've got a Traeger here too. So I've, I've played around with it a little bit. So it's fun. Yeah. You want to have a smoke off? We should, right? We should, uh, just do it at one of the next workshops and just have like a smoke off two different, two different briskets. We should just plug it in in the one that's coming up in a couple of weeks, bring it to the office, plug it in and just let it go and see what happens. Yeah. It's a good idea. Say, okay, we've got time. Yeah. It'll be a mystery. Like you won't, no one will know which smoker belongs to who and see which, which one they like better. Yeah. Um, now a tangent question. You said, since we're already talking about pain that comes at nighttime, what do you think about pain that only comes in the afternoon or, or, uh, or sorry, we talked about the morning. What about pain that comes in the afternoon hours in the morning feels better? Um, I think it could be, you know, similar. I mean, it just depends, right? I mean, it'll present itself. Like I said, if, if you're now doing other activities throughout the day, you know, that kind of piss it off, then it might start triggering it more in the afternoon. So, you know, you might have somebody that they're sitting at their desk all day. And so now after sitting in their desk all day, now is when they feel the pain. You know, if you've been sitting for four hours and you didn't get up and go move around, you know, um, you might feel it in the afternoon or you have other people.

Oh yeah. I felt it more, you know, at night, but you know, what are those activities that you've been doing all day that might be, you know, quote unquote, picking the scab? Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. Other factors too, with, uh, maybe the afternoon people is, um, I guess we didn't talk about the decompressive effect of the, of the disc at nighttime. Um, or just the morning hours. Yeah. Embivision. Yeah. Embivision. So I'll let you cover the embivision part. So, but later on in the day, uh, gravity naturally kind of compresses your spine. It happens every day. Uh, some people can tolerate it. Some people can't based upon how their spine is faring. And so maybe in the end of the day, the compressive aspect might be helping. I'm not saying go get spinal decompression by any means, but I'm saying there's, so the decompression might be a little bit of a trigger. Um, and there is exercises you can do that cost a lot less than, you know, $3,000 that you can do right at home to help out with that too. Um, with imbibition, what is imbibition Mary Lou? It's just a fun word. No, it's, uh, it was probably one of my, one of my favorite words that I learned in Cairo school. I was like, oh, I like that word. Um, but yeah, so imbibition basically is just, uh, overnight, right? Your, your disc is going to try to rehydrate with, you know, water. So the decompressive, you know, that he's talking about. So you walk around all day and, you know, if you measured yourself, you might be a little bit smaller, you know, shorter at the end of the day, who knows? I don't really know what that compressive effect is, but, um, you know, so the disc is nice and full.

And then as you go walking around gravity starts to compress it, it'll be, you know, decompress a little bit. So overnight it has to rehydrate. So imbibition just means the disc is now rehydrating and feeling back up. So think about a water balloon that doesn't have a lot of water in it. And it's kind of like, you know, smaller and less full. And then in the morning it plumps up because now you've got more water in that disc. So that's all it is, is imbibition. How do you think that relates to that morning pain? Um, so now because the water, you know, is filled up into that disc, it's putting a little bit of pressure on that outside, uh, let's say of the balloon. So maybe if that balloon is, you know, irritated and got some inflammation or aggravation, it's part of like just, uh, picking that scab or potentially that nerve that's that lives right behind that disc. So that's why you might have a little bit of that pain there. Yeah. And as the first 30 minutes goes on, gravity has its advantage and then you start to generally feel better. So, yeah, that makes sense.

Um, it takes the pressure back off that balloon. So maybe you should just never sleep or sleep upside down. Like upside down would do it too. Wouldn't it? Uh, you can just stand against the wall and strap yourself against the wall. Right. I don't know. Yeah. Um, traction yourself all night. That sounds horrible. Yeah. I bet you could probably sleep standing up. Uh, what do you think? What else do you think we should cover with this? I mean, I wrote down a couple of those Q and A parts, but, um, yeah. Um, let's see. What about you want to cover what you can in, what you can do to improve the morning. Like if you have the pain. Oh yeah, that's a good one. Uh, yeah. So the easiest thing is probably just get up in a way that doesn't hurt and then walk, you know? Um, I don't know. Recently I've been telling people that, um, possibly if they just, um, take a little bit more time getting up in the morning and roll over onto their belly, grab their cell phone, check their messages, um, maybe for like five minutes, then they can possibly get a little bit more relief just by being in an extended position.

Um, and then get out of bed and go walk and it might just generally be okay right there. Uh, I know doing some cat cows might be nice, but probably when you get up and start pulling the sheets off, you know, your partner, they might wake up too, which they might not like that. I can see my dog is losing her mind right now. So as, as I'm going to let you take over to see what your method is in the morning, I'm going to get her to calm down. All right. Um, no, I think that's a good one of just, you know, checking your phone. So same thing instead of just going directly into like a cat cow, you could just kind of like press yourself up a little bit and stretch, you know, by extending your back. So lay on your belly and just kind of push up a little bit, um, and hang out there. If it's, you know, painful, you kind of just, you know, like he said, lay in that position and it's going to settle down a little bit more. Um, and then you could easily just like walk your, your hand, uh, self up to hands and knees to be able to get out of bed. If you needed from that position, it's a little bit easier. Um, but yeah, I tell people just like, you know, some people have even a stretching routine, you know, where they're like, Oh, I'll do this and that in the morning. I'm like, okay, well, can you do this instead? And then just have them kind of do that, you know, sloppy pushup position where they're extending. So don't go through the entire cat cow.

So it's funny. My dog, uh, I gave her a bone to occupy her, right? And so when she gets to the very end of the bone, she likes to hide it. So right now she's digging everywhere to try to put it like in obscure places. Oh, that's great. I think she hid it behind the air conditioning now. So she must be excited. Um, I, I, so people's routines sometimes in the morning of stretching their back might increase this problem too. Right. Yeah. So I, I mean, I even had somebody tell me like, Oh yeah, before I get out of bed, I, you know, I lay there and I do this happy baby thing and, you know, and I was like, Oh, do you, you know, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's not do that right now, you know? And, you know, other times it might be great. And for some people that is their, you know, let's say what makes them feel better. But in this case, no, you know, we don't want the happy, happy baby position, you know, people with like spinal stenosis or foraminal stenosis might actually benefit from the happy baby, but usually some type of disc irritation won't. Um, and even though the, the, but the surprising thing is that the muscles are tight, they always feel tight. So, you know, stretching them out feels natural and good, but then we're kind of saying do the opposite, like just laying your belly or do some cobras. Right. Yeah, no, definitely. But, and I think, you know, when, when people try the movement, then they realize, Oh, that actually helps settle down the muscle also. Right. Like you're not stretching it, but you know, doing those cobras a little bit will help settle down the muscle a lot of the times too. And so it takes that tension away without even having to stretch the muscle that way. Yeah. Yeah. It's always, I remember the first time that I observed it happen to somebody where they felt better by not stretching the muscles. It just blew my mind because, you know, you kind of think like, well, I, like you got to stretch it or rub it somehow to get it to stop. And you didn't, it was crazy. Like they stood up and like, I feel great.

We didn't even stretch. Yeah. Stretch anything. Yeah. And you're like, Oh, okay. Yeah. The muscle's not all tensing and guarded anymore. Like how did that work? Yeah. Um, maybe hip flexor stretching might help a little bit. Um, so, uh, I wouldn't stretch the hamstrings and I wouldn't stretch the back muscles. Um, maybe some mid back stretching, a little foam roll, the upper back. Yeah. You could definitely do some foam rolling on the, on the mid back area. That'll always kind of help, you know, target above it, target below it. Um, that'd be a good one. Just kind of rocking back and forth with that, uh, hip flexor stretch, you know, you're saying. So if you're like almost like a lunge position and just kind of like, you know, rock your hips forward, maybe some glute exercises that might work. Okay. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, um, I guess the other thing we can go over is, uh, how long does it usually take to heal? Um, yeah. So, you know, I know, I don't know the answer of actually how long the actual disc tissue takes to heal itself, but we can debate that a little bit if you want, but, uh, I think pain can reduce. I've seen as quick as two days. Uh, I like a typical response if, if we got the, the intervention, right. Um, 50% a week easily. Um, which sounds a little, um, outstanding. I know that when I, when I have people on the phone, I I'm hesitant to say that cause they're like, come on, like, uh, like it's supposed to take three months. No, what, what you assume it's supposed to take three months. It does not take that long. Um, not if you're doing the right thing, but recently you can come in for the next three months if you want. Yeah. Yeah.

You can come hang out if you want. We can, we smoke briskets. So, but yeah, no, I, I agree. Um, I think people have, uh, you know, uh, a misconception. Unfortunately, when they hear, Oh, it's like a disc herniation or a disc problem, you know, they, they kind of freak out a little bit, you know, and, and it's, it sounds scarier than it is if you're giving it the right, you know, um, let's say movement and things that we're talking about doing the Cobra is doing like some support around it. Um, it heals up much faster, you know, than a lot of other things. Right. I mean, I'd take that over even like a muscle, you know, strain or a ligament sprain type of thing. Those take much longer to heal. Um, right. Over time. Yeah. I think ligaments continue to remodel for over a year, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Easily six months before you feel much stronger in that area. It seems like, yeah, like any day of the week, I'd rather take a disc irritation over muscle, actual muscle injury. Um, there was, there's a gentleman that came in a couple of weeks ago that he was kind of funny. It's, it, it's always, it's always enlightening to hear what people think. And so he said, uh, you know, so I'm coming in for an opinion. Uh, my back still hurts, but I went to the urgent care and thank God they told me it was just muscle strain. Cause I thought it was a disc and I'm like, huh? Okay. Uh, all right, let's just do it. Let's do this. I hope it's not a muscle strain for your sake, but let's, let's hope it's a disc. Yeah. So you're like, I would have hoped for the opposite for you, but yeah. Well, carry such a negative image, you know, it really does. Um, you know, and, and like we talked about, obviously there's different like varying degrees, right? You can have different sizes of disc irritation to herniations and stuff like that. And all these, you know, different things that go along with it. But typically, I mean, if you can catch it, you know, within a good timeframe, when you start to feel that discomfort and pain, you know, then, uh, it doesn't take too long to, to get it to go away. Yeah. The, um, and people might be thinking about it already, which is why I'm including it on a podcast. I think it releases in two weeks.

It's, um, do you need an MRI? Um, what if my MRI is normal? What then, you know, is it a disc herniation still? Is it a disc irritation? Didn't say that on there. So, um, but like, just what do you, I, they're going to hear my, all my thoughts in a couple of weeks, but what do you think about MRIs to confirm this? So, um, yeah, I, I usually would say it's not required at that point. I mean, you know, I think some people are, you know, kind of a mindset. They want that peace of mind to know like, Oh, it's absolutely this. Like, yeah, you can't confirm that it's, you know, you can't measure how much of a herniation it is without an image. Sure. But it doesn't necessarily mean that that's also what's causing the pain. Some people can have a completely clean MRI, nothing shows up, but then they still have this pain, you know, and then you've got the opposite. People can have like, you know, an eight millimeter, you know, disc and disc bulge. And then they're like, Oh no, I've help, you know? Um, but I think there are some people that like still want an image or they want to, you know, feel like they've got it confirmed with that, you know, for peace of mind. So I feel like, okay, that's up to you, but it's not an absolute and it's not necessary. You know, if we can get them out of pain, right. I mean, that's the, their primary goal typically.

Yeah. Yeah. I think pain is the, probably the biggest driver in this whole thing. It's, it's big, it's the biggest motivator. Um, and yeah, it hurts. So, yeah, I will say another like good point on that is I, a lot of times, you know, people will think like, Oh, okay. I just, this, I've had this, you know, disc problem and it just goes away and that's it. And then they'll do their exercises, um, and think like, okay, it's one and done and it's never again. But, you know, I think it's also important for people to realize that this is something that could be reoccurring if they're not like active and keep continuing to have some kind of support and exercise around that area.

Right. Um, it could be a reoccurring issue if you now just like take care of it, get the pain to go down and then you never think about it again. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, I think it, I actually, I hope at some point everybody has one disc. I'm sure they will. Uh, and they learn from it because, uh, really it, it can be very painful. It could be very low grade just in the morning. It can present in different ways, but it's, it can be such a learning experience to just not be so abusive on your body, on your spine. Like, um, like I, I, I remember years ago I was reading these articles about how, you know, sittings to death of you and like posture and we're a sedentary society and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we get it, you know, but I don't think we really do.

Like people continue to expect a lot from their body when they abuse it and they don't move it. Like your body loves movement. So, you know, be a little bit more active, go for walks, whatever, you know, just something other than what you're doing. Uh, don't expect the world of your body if you're not treating it well. Yeah. I mean, we, we truly are made for movement. So the fact that like, you know, majority of people end up sitting around all day for work, you know, it takes its toll if you now don't get up and go give it some activity, you know, with some type of, it doesn't have to be lifting weights, but just something else, some other kind of movement, you know, it keeps you feeling good, you know, feeling younger. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm watching my dog do somersaults right now so that I can see the movement, very flexible. Um, uh, I think the last podcast I did, the same thing happened. And, uh, ever since we moved the, the podcast room out of the office, there's been very challenging obstructions to doing a, uh, in a quiet way. I don't know how people with kids can actually do a podcast. At least your dog is quiet. I mean, you know, is she, I can hear her in my headphones. I can hear her snorting and biting. No, but she's not like barking and being like, you know, super, you know, loud or anything. Oh no. She's, she's adorable right now, even though her teeth are sinking into my hand. Um, so, uh, I think the last thing we could probably cover is, um, some people will have pain with the, when they sleep. Um, and it, it makes it really hard to recover cause you got to sleep to recover. You got to rejuvenate. Do you have any sleeping tips for some of these people that present this way? Um, yeah, I mean, I think the best one, but people don't always like it because then they try to, you know, it's like trying to put maybe like a towel roll or something under your back, right. To give it some support. But then some people like, well, I can't sleep on my back. Right. So I think that's one of the main complaints with that suggestion. Um, but I think that's probably the most beneficial, like for, you know, a short period of time, maybe like a few days kind of a thing, not like, again, don't sleep like that forever, but some people will, you know, maybe they have a really, really soft bed, you know, and I'm not saying, Hey, you got to go out and buy a whole brand new bed kind of a thing. But while you're having these symptoms, you know, put something under your, your low back to kind of support it, you know, or, you know, something under your back or your knees to kind of bend the knees up and take that pressure off the low back, you know?

Yeah. Um, I think, um, even laying on the floor might be a good option for a couple of days just to see if a firm surface does help you. Um, yeah, it's, um, it's people tend to blame it on their bed a lot. I know that, um, uh, Cody DMACC had, I don't know if he came up with the idea on his own or not, but I think I heard him tell him someone, someone one time, if they're like, should I get a bed, a new bed? And he's like, why don't you just buy a piece of plywood and put the sheets on it or something and put it on your bed. And then, you know, to see if it helps before you start down five grand in a bed. So yeah, you could do that too.

You buy a, um, I mean, I don't know. I always feel great when I go backpacking and I sleep on that like thin pad. Cause then it's like super firm, but I like like a really firm bed. And so, you know, I'm talking about like the, the sleeping mats. So maybe you try somebody to do that. Yeah. So you just like, okay, put that on the floor. You get a thin amount of cushion, but it's really, really firm. You know, that's cheaper than going and buying a whole new mattress and see if that, see if that helps. Yeah. Yeah. There's no point in buying the new mattress yet. So yeah. Or flip it maybe. Yeah. You can do that. So Mary Lou, how can everybody reach you? Um, you can check out my website revampedchiropractic.com. Um, or you can, you know, give me a call 949-994-1304. Uh, let's see. Email, uh, revampedactivechiropractic.com.

That's revamped with a, like a ED, not revamped. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With an ED. Okay. Uh, yeah. So everyone, I'll, I'll put those in the show notes, um, to some contacts of Mary Lou. She's very competent with low backs and hips and sciaticas, uh, and everything under the sun. So, uh, whatever you need to get done, uh, I'm sure she'll do it. Yeah. Cool. Uh, any last words, Mary Lou? No, just, uh, you know, get up and move. Get up. You should have been walking this whole podcast. So that's true. Just take, take a walk around the block while I'm doing my podcast. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, uh, everybody subscribe to the podcast. Um, there are some resources for you in the, in the show notes as well. Um, there, there's a couple of books that I wrote and written on back pain just because we do get a lot of questions and answers and I want to everyone to get the resources that they, uh, need and want and, uh, cover any, uh, I call them. Yeah. But it's like, well, do you want to do move a little bit? Yeah. But do you think I need an MRI? And so we covered it in all those books just cause people want to know. And so those are available anyways, good resources for everybody. So subscribe to the show and we'll see you next time.